I have a question for you medical types! :)

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Ducky
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Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 3199
   Posted 12/29/2005 7:30 PM (GMT -7)   
Hey Guys -
 
I need your expertise... what is the mental disorder called when a person deliberately does stuff to themselves (or family) for attention... and not necessarily Medical Attention, I know that is Munchausen's.... but any attention.... like deliberatly hurting your own child for attention... trying to burn down your own house... stuff like that... Any help would be greatly appreciated... Also, is there any type of treatment for people like this?  Thanks again! - Duck
Diagnosed January 2005 - Psoriatic Arthritis/Spondylitis
-Currently taking 50mg shot weekly of Enbrel
Diagnosed May 1998 - Graves Disease
-Complete Thyroidectomy September 1998 - While 11 weeks pregnant
Other Complications - GERD/Scoliosis/Hiatal Hernia/Graves Disease of the Eyes
Current Meds -  Enbrel/Prevacid/Synthroid
Past Meds - Inderal/PTU/Prednisone/Voltaren/Feldene/Mobic/Cortisone and Steroid Shots


elcamino
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Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 1744
   Posted 1/1/2006 8:33 PM (GMT -7)   

That sounds like Munchausen by proxy (forgive the spelling).  Very serious disorder, especially since it involves the harming of others (e.g., children).  I think Munchausen, alone, is when you harm yourself to get attention.  The by proxy part is added if you harm someone else for attention, like a child. 

Elcamino


elcamino
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Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 1744
   Posted 1/1/2006 8:41 PM (GMT -7)   

It looks like it is a relatively rare disorder; not much is known about treatment, except that it rarely responds to psychotherapy.

Elcamino


Ducky
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 3199
   Posted 1/2/2006 7:25 AM (GMT -7)   
Hey thanks el camino... I wonder what triggers this in people? And also, why the none respons to psychotherapy.... hhhmmmm interesting
Diagnosed January 2005 - Psoriatic Arthritis/Spondylitis
-Currently taking 50mg shot weekly of Enbrel
Diagnosed May 1998 - Graves Disease
-Complete Thyroidectomy September 1998 - While 11 weeks pregnant
Other Complications - GERD/Scoliosis/Hiatal Hernia/Graves Disease of the Eyes
Current Meds -  Enbrel/Prevacid/Synthroid
Past Meds - Inderal/PTU/Prednisone/Voltaren/Feldene/Mobic/Cortisone and Steroid Shots


erin.K
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Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 3148
   Posted 1/3/2006 10:48 AM (GMT -7)   
whoa Ducky!  yikes.  elcamino is right on with the previous reply.  also, there are forms of dementia and schizophrenia that can cause behavior like this.  what these people get are "primary" and "secondary" gains in medical terms.  so yeah, it's an attention getting/anxiety releiving behavior.
the reason why sometimes this stuff fails with psychotherapy is because the disorder can be of   a) organic nature  b) inorganic/behavioral nature  or c) a big ol messy combo of both!
psychiatric meds and psycho therapy treatments are needed.
sometimes you need institutionalization for a while.
i know that steroids and pred can cause the crazies????  but not sure to what degree.  early onset alzheimers and CVA's can cause whacky behavior.
delirium/illusions/hallucunations can do this too.
wow....write back about this!  it's very interesting.
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{ HUGS }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
erin
ps.....if I see you on the 6 o'clock news tonight that you went and burnt your house down and killed your family...i'll come bail ya out of jail!  LOL tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue tongue

Ducky
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 3199
   Posted 1/3/2006 1:09 PM (GMT -7)   
tongue  Hey Erin!
 
Fortunately, it's not me.  yeah It's actually a co-worker of mine's wife...  nono She has done stuff in the past for attention, but the most recent is the fact that she took phone books and lit them on fire and put them under her house and her neighbors house, then called her husband at work and said "THE HOUSE IS OF FIRE!  WHAT DO I DO?"  skull  He goes rushing home, finds the neighbors house has lost part of their patio due to the fire, and he finds the phone book under his house.  So of course the police / arson investigators get called, and while he is waiting for them, he find a scorched bottle of starch in his bedroom.  He immediately puts 2 and 2 together and when the arson investigators get there, he gives it to them and gives them the low-down on his psycho wife... Well, she hears all this and comes out and starts beating the living **it out of him in front of the police... Needless to say, she's in jail right now.. 2 counts of arson and 4 counts of child endangerment since their 3 kids were home as well as 1 child at the neighbors... She is an alcoholic... I wonder if that has anything to do with it? 
 
I was thinking Munchausen's was medical attention and wasn't sure about Munchausen's by proxy if she would fit in that category... from what I gather from my co-worker is that she has ALWAYS been like this... I just would like to see her get some help, 'cause she's obviously got some issues going on!  She's only in her 20's so I don't know what could be triggering it unless it's the alcohol induced haze she's been in for the majority of her life!
 
I'll keep you all posted on what the haps is with her... what a mess!
Diagnosed January 2005 - Psoriatic Arthritis/Spondylitis
-Currently taking 50mg shot weekly of Enbrel
Diagnosed May 1998 - Graves Disease
-Complete Thyroidectomy September 1998 - While 11 weeks pregnant
Other Complications - GERD/Scoliosis/Hiatal Hernia/Graves Disease of the Eyes
Current Meds -  Enbrel/Prevacid/Synthroid
Past Meds - Inderal/PTU/Prednisone/Voltaren/Feldene/Mobic/Cortisone and Steroid Shots


erin.K
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 3148
   Posted 1/3/2006 7:25 PM (GMT -7)   
confused  what a mess is right!!!  when i worked psych, i saw many people with similar lives and stories as your friend's wife.  many times these people "hear someone" telling them to do the things they do...like set fires and harm others.  other's see images and try to get rid of them by acting out and doing irrational things.
that's a shame she's so so young.  it does sound like her situation needs immediate inpatient hospitalization and treatment and therapy.  and it's not that bad.  usually, in psych wards...it's communal! especially the voluntary basis wards. everybody's together, you're not alone and you socialize & have activities all day.  and she'll be seen by a doc and therapist everyday until her meds get straightend out.
mental illness is sometimes the worst illness...because you cannot see it, and it is so hard to help.
i wish her well.
if there is anything i can do for your friend or info needed looked up....i know and am good friends with some psychiatric nurse practitioners.
{{{{{{{{{{{{ hugs to Ducky }}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

Ducky
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 3199
   Posted 1/4/2006 4:43 AM (GMT -7)   
sad  Yeah it's sad... my co-worker is done with her... he said he's put up with it for long enough, and says that his girls (they have 3) are happier now that their mommy is in jail... How sad is that?  sad   But she used to drink over a case of beer a day, then drive around with the kids all day 'cause she's a stay at home mom... it's awful... he could care less what happens, but she does need help... I agree he that he needs to get the kids away from her, but I just think she needs to be afforded the opportunity for help before he shuts the door on her competely... I'm just a softy at heart I guess! :-)
Diagnosed January 2005 - Psoriatic Arthritis/Spondylitis
-Currently taking 50mg shot weekly of Enbrel
Diagnosed May 1998 - Graves Disease
-Complete Thyroidectomy September 1998 - While 11 weeks pregnant
Other Complications - GERD/Scoliosis/Hiatal Hernia/Graves Disease of the Eyes
Current Meds -  Enbrel/Prevacid/Synthroid
Past Meds - Inderal/PTU/Prednisone/Voltaren/Feldene/Mobic/Cortisone and Steroid Shots


elcamino
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 1744
   Posted 1/4/2006 8:48 AM (GMT -7)   

Wow Ducky.  That's a terribly sad situation.  Your co-worker might want to consider family counseling for himself and his girls.  Living with an alcoholic mother, and then having her taken from the home abruptly will have an impact on the girls--despite the fact that it sounds like she was abusive and needed to be taken away from the girls.  Drunk driving?!?!  With the kids in the car?  Sounds like abuse to me--that's more than child negligence.  I'm not sure that munchausen by proxy would fit the situation either.  Alcoholism, alone, can do some drastrically horrible things to people.  I hope everyone finds the help they need.

Elcamino


erin.K
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 3148
   Posted 1/4/2006 8:53 AM (GMT -7)   

Oh my! Yeah, in a way many times it is not these peoples' own faults that they fall into a disaster like this.  Something triggers this whether it be emotional scarring, depression, genetics, child abuse/molestation, addictive personalities. 

A case of beer a day is not so outrageous for an alcoholic  tongue (in fact, that's pretty darn conservative to what I've seen!) LOL... but I'm sure she binges on a lot more than she may let on.  Alcohol induced menatal deterioration (and even organ failure from alcohol) can cause the cookoos. Can cause frantic anger problems, psychosis too!

She would benefit to go to inpatient treatment.  They may decide to do that instead of jail.  Is she sentenced already?  And in that...child endagerment, ya can't fool around with that.  Better to keep them away before something terrible should happen.

You're a good friend to have such concern over this matter.

:-)

Ducky
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 3199
   Posted 1/4/2006 11:29 AM (GMT -7)   

Hey - :-)

Well, a case of beer isn't all she drinks, that's just the beer... That doesn't include the vodka and everything else she can get her hands on.. Yeah she needs help, right now she is still in jail.  My co-worker has to meet with a lawyer to try and find out the best plan of action, she isn't to come within 100 ft of her house or her kids, which of course right now isn't a problem since she's in jail, but if/when she gets out, it may be.. He's trying to do everything he can to protect himself and his kids, which I can understand, so her needs right now are not his priority, especially since he has given up on her... I am hoping that she gets treatment though, whatever they decide to do in the family, she really really needs the help... I just can't imagine anyone wanting to do something like that...  that's just scary! skull


Diagnosed January 2005 - Psoriatic Arthritis/Spondylitis
-Currently taking 50mg shot weekly of Enbrel
Diagnosed May 1998 - Graves Disease
-Complete Thyroidectomy September 1998 - While 11 weeks pregnant
Other Complications - GERD/Scoliosis/Hiatal Hernia/Graves Disease of the Eyes
Current Meds -  Enbrel/Prevacid/Synthroid
Past Meds - Inderal/PTU/Prednisone/Voltaren/Feldene/Mobic/Cortisone and Steroid Shots

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