Tortoise's Stupid Experiment Thread

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tortoise11
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2896
   Posted 6/2/2010 6:33 AM (GMT -7)   
I've hinted at this in a couple of other threads, but here is the big announcement:
 
I am trying to go off meds.  Relax for a minute and let me explain!  SO and I have briefly discussed baby #2, and being on meds while pregnant is a big problem.  To find out if baby #2 is a possibility, I need to find out if I can be stable on meds for long enough to conceive (anywhere from 5 days to a few months) plus 3 months.
 
So I am finding out if I can be stable.  I am finally taking the advice I've been hearing for so long.  Diet, exercise, sleep, schedule.
 
I am on a high-fat, low-carb, no-sugar, no-MSG, no-aspartame, no caffiene diet. (I've lost 12.2 pounds!)  I am taking vitamins that have scientific and anecdotal evidence that they improve bipolar symptoms:
 
Super-B Complex
Folate 1200 mcg
Selenium 200 mcg
D3 2000 IU
Zinc 50 mg
5-HTP 100 mg
 
I started lifting weights every other day and have been trying to squeeze in other exercise as well.  I walked 2 miles yesterday!  I copied down "play" exercises to do with my son every day.  And I bought a pair of zills yesterday to motivate me to bellydance - great exercise!  O yeah - sex.  that is always part of the workout plan since I like being on top.  (sorry for the TMI)
 
My sleep schedule is fairly set.  I kicked my service dog out of the bedroom and have been varying my wake-up times a little bit since being stable on meds.  I need to get back to my old routine of strict sleep schedule.  I always get up by 8:00 to take my meds.  I *should* be getting up at 7 so I have some free time before my son wakes up.  I have started to be more strict about going to bed at 9:00.  I was getting to relaxed about bedtime and after sex it would often be 11:00.  I've started being better about sleep schedule, but I'm not at a bad spot.  On the dose I am on, I get a tiny bit of hypomania sometimes at night, but I force myself to stay in bed so I don't screw up the next day.
 
My schedule has had a few blocks of time that are set, but I also have had less structured time - I generally sit down at the computer, check email and 3 forums, and then sit there feeling lonely and blah.  It can ruin a day.  So I penciled out a schedule that adds in a set time for weight lifting, arts&crafts with my son, exercise with my son, and time exclusively for me.  This should get rid of the times during the day that my mood tends to slip.  Today will be the first day of trying it.  It takes me a couple weeks to adjust to a new schedule, but I'm hoping this will be an easy change because it is similar to what I am used to. 
 
I started at 200 mg Lamictal.  I am at 100 mg Lamictal now - which is a dose that stabilizes me if I am not stressed out.
 
On Saturday, I go down to 75 mg.  I am so impatient for this, but I keep telling myself that I really need to wait to make sure my body has had time to start using the vitamins, and to get my exercise level up (consistently).
 
I'm noticing a change in my attitude.  This morning I wanted to sleep in - which sets me up for an awful depressed feeling day.  This morning, I thought "I can't count on my medication to keep me stable" and I got out of bed.  :)
 
I know this is probably stupid, but I'm 100% willing to start increasing my dose if I start having symptoms.  Now that I've had a few months of stability, I never want to go back!
 
Wish me luck!  Any other self-care items I need to think about?  What helps you?
 
 
Bipolar 2
Borderline Personality Disorder
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Panic Disorder


mogli
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Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 1191
   Posted 6/2/2010 7:34 AM (GMT -7)   
Morning tortoise :)
 
I slept in today.... :-)   I think I made the right decision in taking this week off.
 
So firstly, it's not a stupid experiment. A couple of questions: Have you ever done this before? Are you on anything else other than Lamictal? And does pdoc know or are you decreasing your dose on your own?
 
I ask these questions with experience. I went off meds a few years ago and stayed off for almost a whole year. I (now here is where you can use the word "stupid") did not make any plans whatsoever to manage my illness with other tools, such as vitamins, exercise etc. My counsellor really went on and on about Vitamin B Complex, I don't know anything about any of the others....I am really interested in how this is going to play out for you. My Mom has suggested a more natural method of coping to me for a long time and I just shrug it off comparing it to my last experience without meds. I know the area where I would have a problem is the diet. No caffeine or sugars. Sugar I could probably do?? Anyway, I'm rambling.
 
I want to know what I can do for when the time comes that bf and finally decide to get pregnant. So I think that this plan of yours is great. I really encourage you to be strong through it, and to really document each day. My meds really seem to be working right now, so I'm wondering about doing something different.
 
I wish you the best through this. There is no rule that says all bps have to be on meds. In my opinion, it is one's choice and I have read that it can be done! I recall when I went off meds and came on here to tell everyone what I was doing, I got a lot of nono from ppl. But we have a different crew here now and I think ppl will be supportive. And we are all entitled to our opinion.
 
Keep us posted, count me in as cheering you on yeah
 
Mogs.

PS-Major congrats on the weight loss!!!


Mogs
 
Bipolar II, Anxiety/Panic Disorder
Clonazepam .5mg as neededMethoprazine 12 mg/day, Mirapex working up to 2.25 mg/day, Lamictal 400mg/day


tortoise11
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2896
   Posted 6/2/2010 7:54 AM (GMT -7)   

Thanks mogs!  :)  I am between pdoc's due to change in insurance.  I am only on Lamictal.

I forgot to add to my list of self-care things - avoiding stress.  I already can't work or go to school because the stress send me into a tail-spin.  I've never kept a job for more than 14 months.

How did you do off meds?


Bipolar 2
Borderline Personality Disorder
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Panic Disorder


Not2L8
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2010
Total Posts : 255
   Posted 6/2/2010 12:36 PM (GMT -7)   
Good luck...I wish you all the best.
Faith... is the art of holding on to things your reason once accepted, despite your changing moods.

Bipolar Disorder
Borderline Personality Disorder
PTSD
meds: pristq, lamotrigine, ambien cr, Xanax


mogli
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 1191
   Posted 6/2/2010 1:17 PM (GMT -7)   
I saw my pdoc and told him what I wanted to do...he was hesitant but supported me fully and so with his instructions I wheaned off of everything (I was probably only taking two meds). I had just started attending a support group at that time so with my weekly sessions there, and initially feeling great, I thought I was a genious! idea LOL But I believe b/c of my lack of doing exercise, taking vitamins, etc....I failed myself miserably.
Mogs
 
Bipolar II, Anxiety/Panic Disorder
Clonazepam .5mg as neededMethoprazine 12 mg/day, Mirapex working up to 2.25 mg/day, Lamictal 400mg/day


happy bill
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 1132
   Posted 6/2/2010 1:29 PM (GMT -7)   
 
  Good luck tortoise, going off you meds is a big step. Try to keep a journal of things that set you off. That way you can know what can trigger an attack and possibly take steps to avoid it. Plus dont be upset if it doesnt work out well the first time, sometimes it takes more than once to learn how to live your life.
 
   As allways you know that we are all here for you to talk to. 
 
   Lots of luck .  Bill
 
   "If Life Gives You Lemons, Make Lemonade"
 
   "It isn't my fault that i am BiPolar, It is my responsibility how i treat it so that i don't hurt others or myself."  Happy Bill
 
   Meds. Respirdal  0.5 a day, more if needed.


slz727
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 216
   Posted 6/2/2010 9:56 PM (GMT -7)   
Just wondering how did you do with your last pregnancy? Were you on meds previously? I was on antidepresent and went off of it. I was such a nice person when I was pregnant but once the my son was a few months old it started over again. May I suggest not only the pdr but also obgyn. I used to work for one and she would give pt advice on all kinds of safe and affective ways to change meds to help during pregnancy. I know my 2 cents worth but just wondered and to see if this helps any.

SLZ

tortoise11
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2896
   Posted 6/3/2010 6:30 AM (GMT -7)   
I was sick and miserable the first trimester - a good day would be getting out of bed and laying on the couch the rest of the day.  I was an emotional mess b/c DS is a child of marital rape - that was really hard for me for a long time - it's OK now.
 
In the middle of the 2nd trimester, I started having preterm labor and was put on bedrest.  A few weeks later, they started me on antidepressants as a preventative.  I was totally fine when I started and stayed fine throughout.
 
I COMPLETELY FELL APART after he was born.  Normal new-mommy stuff for a couple months, but then started cycling terribly bad.  Worst of my life.  Ultraradian, very severe depressions, big crashes.  Like on top of the world and then crashing to depression over 5 - 10 minutes.  Those are physically hard.  I was on depakote, tried xanax (disaster).
 
Referred to a pdoc, who told me there was no possible way I could be BP (even though my family doctor/son's pediatrician was treating me for a "bipolar-like" condition with mood stabilizers) and she sent me off on my way in about 5 minutes.  mad mad mad mad
 
2-1/2 YEARS later, I finally get the help I need.
 
I'm not worried at all about the actual pregnancy.  It will be physically miserable.  :-)   I'm worried about the time while trying to conceive and for a year + afterwards while breastfeeding.  SO is super worried about during the pregnancy.
Bipolar 2
Borderline Personality Disorder
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Panic Disorder


tortoise11
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2896
   Posted 6/3/2010 7:30 AM (GMT -7)   

Tomorrow I go down to 37.5% of my regular dose. smhair If it is going to be a disaster, I'll know by noon.  Will keep you posted.

I am scared stiff - have no idea what to expect.


Bipolar 2
Borderline Personality Disorder
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Panic Disorder


tortoise11
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2896
   Posted 6/3/2010 1:02 PM (GMT -7)   
I got an idea from a fitness site that I was browsing - a personal contract. I copied a blank one and changed it to fit my self-care responsibilities. I worked on it for about an hour and I have a concrete list of things I need to do this month, over the next 6 months. I don't have anything in the longterm part. I can't plan that far in advance - I have no idea what could happen!

If I meet my goal from now to July 1, I will treat myself to new glasses, prescription sunglasses, and contacts. And I won't feel guilty about it!!
Bipolar 2
Borderline Personality Disorder
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Panic Disorder


mogli
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 1191
   Posted 6/3/2010 2:33 PM (GMT -7)   
Hey tortoise,
 
Wow, I am super depressed today....Anyway, I know you said due to insurance you are in between pdocs; wondering how much longer before you can get another one....
 
I hope you are feeling okay today and this plan works for you.
Mogs
 
Bipolar II, Anxiety/Panic Disorder
Clonazepam .5mg as neededMethoprazine 12 mg/day, Mirapex working up to 2.25 mg/day, Lamictal 400mg/day


tortoise11
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2896
   Posted 6/3/2010 2:46 PM (GMT -7)   

I'm already on the new insurance.  I have to pick my HMO next week.  Then go to a GP to get a referral to a pdoc.  rolleyes   I'm getting copies of ALL of my records this week and next week - from EIGHT different Dr's/clinics (!) so that the new pdoc (only one in the area!) has a good record of what has been going on.


Bipolar 2
Borderline Personality Disorder
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Panic Disorder


mogli
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 1191
   Posted 6/3/2010 5:24 PM (GMT -7)   
Sounds good! I'm satisfied now...LOL wink
Mogs
 
Bipolar II, Anxiety/Panic Disorder
Clonazepam .5mg as neededMethoprazine 12 mg/day, Mirapex working up to 2.25 mg/day, Lamictal 400mg/day


tortoise11
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2896
   Posted 6/4/2010 5:18 AM (GMT -7)   

Today is the big day!  smhair

I took just 75 mgs - 37.5% of my prescribed dose.  I am spending the day with a friend that knows me inside and out for a decade.  We've been roommates a few times - she has seen it ALL!  I told her what is going on ans asked her to let me know if my mood seems off, if I get irritable/impatient or too chipper.  We are going to walk for a couple of hours in a shopping mall, so I'll get in some exercise too!

I am hoping for a definitive result - either no change or catastrophic failure.  The grey area in the middle would be hard for me to deal with.

I also have to keep in mind that my friend has a way of making me hypomanic - even when I'm stable on meds.  So if I am just a little hypomanic, I need to try one more day and see if it is from the lower dose or if it was from being around my friend.

I'll be gone all day, but you know I will check in as soon as I get home!  :)


Bipolar 2
Borderline Personality Disorder
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Panic Disorder


horse crazy
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 199
   Posted 6/4/2010 5:42 AM (GMT -7)   
Tortoise...
Wow...good luck.  I have always wanted to try to go off meds, but haven't been brave enough.  And I am a far way from doing all the self-care things you are doing.  The only thing I suggest is when the going gets rough, take a time out and take a "vacation" in your head.  Now (before something stressful hits) think up something...a scene, a happy time,anything that is a good memory.  For me, it is riding a horse on a beach.  So when I start getting really stressed out, I take myself to the beach on horseback and just sort of immerse myself in that memory and relax.  Only need to do it less than 5 minutes and I don't know...it helps me and maybe it will help you.  I  will be following you closely, so keep us posted.  I wish you success.  Oh, yeah....might be helpful to have your doc help wean you off the meds.
Horse Crazy
Bi-polarII; rapid cycler; Lithium 900 mg; Lamictal 200 mg; seraquel 450mg, klonopin 4mg
 


tortoise11
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2896
   Posted 6/4/2010 3:48 PM (GMT -7)   

Today was just fine!  I had some strong anxiety about noon wondering what would happen and over analyzing everything I was thinking and doing.  I sat down with a glass of water and meditated.

I've had a fairly serene day.  Lots of meditation, introspection.  I'm OK!

I did not get my exercise in today, but I did manage to stick to my diet while eating at a restaurant.  :)

 

 


Bipolar 2
Borderline Personality Disorder
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Panic Disorder


tortoise11
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2896
   Posted 6/5/2010 10:53 AM (GMT -7)   

I'm OK!  I did sleep a little late (got up early, stayed up for an hour and went back to bed for an hour).  I got outside and weeded my garden, cleaned out my rabbitry, and sold a rabbit.  SO took my son to thrift sales to give me some time alone.

cool

Housework and shopping are calling.  I'll check in later.


Bipolar 2
Borderline Personality Disorder
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Panic Disorder


tortoise11
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2896
   Posted 6/5/2010 7:26 PM (GMT -7)   

Wow!  a good day.  calm, fun, a few moments of minor irritation with my son, but nothing outside of normal-human-being-ness.

I was creative - did sidewalk chalk art - without being hypomanic or having serious issues.

Got chores done.  Went grocery shopping and restrained from buying all sorts of sweet treats.  Did get some beer for myself.  Never done that before.  (I've never been drunk -- I'm 25.  shocked    LOL )  But I tried some of SO's at a restaurant and I liked it (relatively... for an alcoholic beverage).  I don't think I could drink 1/2 of a bottle.  We'll see.  Lamictal + alchohol can increase drowsiness and dizziness.  I'm not too worried about that considering I am at 75 mgs now and I don't get either of those side effects normally.

I am feeling very encouraged for tomorrow.

I did some thinking today and one memory that popped up was my reaction to having prednisone.  I went nuts.  Literally completely effing crazy.  I just googled "prednisone mania" and sure, enough - got a lot of results.  It's really interesting to learn how much of my confusing past is simply this disorder.

Note to self - NEVER take prednisone.

I forgot to mention in yesterday's message that I did get the same withdrawal effects as before from lowering my dose.  It wasn't nearly so bad and I don't think anyone noticed.  I felt a little more of that or possibly just side effect today - the dizziness/lightheadedness again.  Just a couple minutes while I was shopping.

Time for bed.  Will check in tomorrow.  :)


Bipolar 2
Borderline Personality Disorder
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Panic Disorder


tortoise11
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2896
   Posted 6/5/2010 8:26 PM (GMT -7)   
Throw a wrench in it. The wedding I have to go to is this coming Saturday. :( I will have to stay very focused to not let it affect my mood. stress + not wanting to be there = not good for me

In a month, SO will be gone for a fishing trip, so that is another time I need to plan for.

Trying to look ahead and anticipate rough spots...
Bipolar 2
Borderline Personality Disorder
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Panic Disorder


horse crazy
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 199
   Posted 6/6/2010 2:11 AM (GMT -7)   

Yeah...that is a very good note to yourself...no predisone. Predisone has always done a number on me and has almost always sent me into mania with less than desirable results.  I just got off 10 days of predisone for a super asthma attack, but luckily it was a short enough time that it just lifted my mood a bit.  Much more and I would have been off the wall.   I am glad you remebered this little fact!! 

I think you are doing a super job in analyzing your behavior and watching for warning signs.  I am hoping you make it to your goal, Tortoise  and keep hanging in there. I am following you closely. 


Horse Crazy
Bi-polarII; rapid cycler; Lithium 600
Requip XL 8mg; Lamictal 200 mg; seraquel 450mg, klonopin 4mg
 


tortoise11
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Date Joined Jan 2010
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   Posted 6/6/2010 6:08 AM (GMT -7)   

Here I was expecting you to be yelling at me for staying up too late.  I had a tiny bit of hypomania last night.  I did stay up too late, but I managed to make a good choice too.

I had a really strong urge to snack.  Normally, me, unmedicated, it would be a sugar binge which would contribute to my crash into depression.

I made a sweet treat that barely has any sweetener in it and is really high fat, so I had no temptation to overeat.

I did stay up late, but I laid on the couch watching clips of a favorite TV show - no activity that would make it worse.

I knew I was a little hypomanic, and I think if I wasn't so into the show, I would have gone to bed earlier.

I was REALLY hard on myself until I realized that it doesn't matter so much AS LONG AS I don't crash into depression.  My hypomanias are typically very mild and the only real problems are making sure that it doesn't send me into a depression.

I meditated, prayed.  I wanted to write in my journal, but I knew that would have kept me up too long.  I fell asleep quickly and slept well.

Woke up before my alarm clock a couple times, but stayed in bed.  The closer I stay to my sleep schedule, the lower the chance of mood swings.

I took my meds on time and right now I am focusing on staying awake for at least an hour.  I am a little bit tired and this is a warning sign for today.  If I nap, nap wrong, or nap too long, I could wake up afterwards in a depression.  If I take a nap this mornings still,  I will take it on the couch so my son WILL wake me up when he gets up.

Should I go to church this morning?  I have been thinking I am ready to go.  I haven't gone since my BP thing started last fall.  It's too strange to be "in a state" and try to talk to someone who has no idea.  To try to act normal.

I'm not jumping up and down saying I'm all OK this morning.  I feel just fine right NOW, but I am well-aware that my experiment could come to an abrupt end today.


Bipolar 2
Borderline Personality Disorder
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Panic Disorder


tortoise11
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2896
   Posted 6/6/2010 4:11 PM (GMT -7)   
Today has ended up OK. I did go back to sleep. We all had a little late morning here. I spent longer than usual doing learning activities with my son. :) During his nap, I caught up on the last of the TV show I was watching last night.

My SO is out fishing with his dog, my son is helping me tidy up the living room while I am working on decluttering my mind with the help of google, pencil and paper. I think I would be even less irritable if I had less crap in my mind competing for attention with the really important people and things.

I'm encouraged that I survived a mood swing, as minor as it was. I also learned that unlike like depression which comes on suddenly, hypomania can creap up on me, even when I think I am most aware. I learned that I need to reflect on how I respond to hypomania. My toolbox basically says "enjoy it!" but doesn't actually have any coping tools in it. I have to change this. My depressions are always preceded by hypomania, the more extreme the hypomania, the more extreme the depression will be. Curbing hypomania should be a strong defense against depression.
Bipolar 2
Borderline Personality Disorder
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Panic Disorder


horse crazy
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2010
Total Posts : 199
   Posted 6/6/2010 10:29 PM (GMT -7)   
Tortoise...
As much as I love hypomania, I do know it carries a price and that is depression. When I start to get hypomanic, I get physical...pulling weeds in the garden, give my horse a bath, write like crazy in a journal. Anyway, you are wise to watch the hypomnia, because it will only go higher. One thing I notice is I tend to sleep a lot less when I am hypomanic, and even tho I want to get up and do things, I force myself to stay in bed (just like I am doing now LOL) and I can usually read myself back to sleep. So keep an eye on how many hours you sleep.
I think you are still doing good so hang in there.
Horse Crazy
Bi-polarII; rapid cycler; Lithium 600
Requip XL 8mg; Lamictal 200 mg; seraquel 450mg, klonopin 4mg
 


tortoise11
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2896
   Posted 6/7/2010 8:17 AM (GMT -7)   
So far, so good.  I'm noticing a little bit of irritability creeping up with my son.  I'm not raising my voice or doing anything "bad," I'm just runnong out of patience nagging him to get him to do things.  So I'm using more consequences ("Go in your room until you are ready to...") and sticking with it.
 
I'm a little bit more jumpy.  He has been mauling me with hugs lately and it is REALLY getting on my nerves.  So the time-outs are working well to give me a little space.
 
He usually does pretty well and asks if I want a hug.  (so sweet!)  But yesterday and today, he is just hanging off of me - usually my right arm when I am trying to write or type.  mad
 
The irritability is gone right away after he gets out of my space or asks if I want a hug, so it's not like the mood swing irritability that builds and builds and gets just awful.
 
Today I am noting things that bother me and I'm FIXING them!  Like the doors that squeak.  DS was playing with a door and it was driving me nuts this morning because the door was squeaking.  I don't care that he was playing with the door!  So as soon as I fix the door squeak, that won't be an issue.
 
Sitting down with DS and telling him exactly what I expect him to do and not do should clear up the hanging off of me stuff.  I need to do it when he hasn't just irritated me so that he doesn't think I am just reacting to him.
 
I had a puppy here that I never bothered to find a home for.  She was pretty high-maintenance and not earning her keep.  I found a great home for her.  That is one less thing - trying to remember when the last time she peed was.  It's quiet, I don't have to hover to make sure my son doesn't play too roughly with her.  None of us miss her, so I think it was a good decision.
 
I can feel my heart rate creeping up and starting to feel tense/queasy, so I'm going to go meditate, drink some water, cross something off my to-do list and go play with the little man.  :)
 
I'm starting to feel like I CAN do this!
Bipolar 2
Borderline Personality Disorder
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Panic Disorder


tortoise11
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 2896
   Posted 6/7/2010 8:35 AM (GMT -7)   

I just HAD to post back!  I had absolutely no idea how much the squeaky doors were wearing on my nerves.  I fixed them all and feel so much better.  :)

I do need to start being AWARE of things that bother me instead of ignoring and allowing it to continue.  And to take action to fix it.  I'm thinking about getting a mini-notepad to carry around with me and everytime something bothers me, to jot it down so I can fix it later.

Off to meditate.  I'll keep checking in.  :)


Bipolar 2
Borderline Personality Disorder
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder
Panic Disorder

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