What's the diff. between bipolar 1 & 2

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RanMan
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 648
   Posted 4/2/2005 1:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi everyone,
My name is Randy from the epilepsy board.
I have a 19 yr old son dx'd with manic depression/bipolar at age 12. 
Question: What is the difference between bipolar 1 & 2 ?
 
Randy
Diagnosed with epilepsy and ulcerative colitis in 1979,
Been on meds ever since.
 
275mg-dilantin/day
120mg-pheonobarb/day
3,000mg-Mesasol/day


Danarx
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 585
   Posted 4/2/2005 10:48 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Ran Man,

I chatted with you a few nights ago. I am so sorry that the discussion was interrupted. It was just that people who discontinue their steroids cold turkey can put themselves in an andrenal crisis and can be life threatening.

One thing that I was going to maybe suggest, is if your son gets really bad and needs to be hospiatlized, maybe you can try a depot (slow release through the muscle) injection, antipsychotic (I think Risperdal comes like that) I'm not sure how long it's lasts. But at least a month if not more. Just a suggestion.

To explain bipolar I vs II. bipolar I you get the extremes of both mania and depression. Where as bipolar II you get the extreme of depression and mania (but not to the extrememe). And antidepressants by themselves usually cause mood swings in people with bipolar II.

Hope this helps and very nice to meet you a few days ago.
 ~ With Love ~ Dana, Pharm. D.
 
~ Diagnosed with Lupus in May of 2004 and Bipolar II in April of 2001. 
 
Disclaimer:  On any medical information I provide, please bring your concerns to your physician.  I have no financial interests in any drug or drug company.  I will try be as objective as possible.  If I am giving my opinion I will state it first. 


RanMan
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 648
   Posted 4/3/2005 12:06 AM (GMT -6)   
Danarx,
Thanx for your reply but I still don't get it. It looks to me (correct me if I'm wrong) like you've described bipolar 1 & 2 as being the same.
 
Your quote:
 
To explain bipolar I vs II. bipolar I you get the extremes of both mania and depression. Where as bipolar II you get the extreme of depression and mania (but not to the extrememe). And antidepressants by themselves usually cause mood swings in people with bipolar II.
Randy
Diagnosed with epilepsy and ulcerative colitis in 1979,
Been on meds ever since.
 
275mg-dilantin/day
120mg-pheonobarb/day
3,000mg-Mesasol/day


Danarx
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 585
   Posted 4/3/2005 7:03 AM (GMT -6)   
Okay, Lets give an example. I have bipolar II, but I never really loose touch with reality. They call the "mania" hypomania. It's just not as severe as the mania in bipolar I, yet the depression is as severe. Patients with bipolar II are mostly depressed.

I know it gets tricky, and bipolar II may just be a begining of what is to come. (yet being that I was diagnosed with bipolar II I'm hoping that is not the case).

My "mania" consisted of mostly having a good feeling. Having a bunch of ideas for school. Doing very well on exams. I usually would either get A's or I would fail tests and managing to pass all of my classes.

There is definite instability, yet not enough mania to diagnose full blown bipolar I. (it' s really hard to explain - if you knew my brother vs. me, it would be as clear as day). And yet my mother seems to be in a class of her own. I would consider her's more as schizoaffective (cycling between psychosis, stable, and depression - mania is present yet lasts a very short time and followed by psychosis).

But Dr. Phelps goes into bipolar II at www.psycheducation.org

And there are actually 4 subsets on the bipolar continum.

Bipolar I - extremes of mania and depression
Bipoalr II - hypomania and extreme of depression
Cyclothymia - cycling between hypomania and depression (yet not so severe as bipolar I and II)
Dysthymia - depression (yet not so severe as bipolar I and II)

Just to make things more confusiong. Everyone is different and I think it's just a way to classify severities of the disease.

And treatment changes a little as well.


I'm sure I probably confused you more, but they are all a part of the same illness. Some just not so severe. I think they are starting to recognize and treat people with milder forms of the disease.
 ~ With Love ~ Dana, Pharm. D.
 
~ Diagnosed with Lupus in May of 2004 and Bipolar II in April of 2001. 
 
Disclaimer:  On any medical information I provide, please bring your concerns to your physician.  I have no financial interests in any drug or drug company.  I will try be as objective as possible.  If I am giving my opinion I will state it first. 


psychnurse
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Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 4/4/2005 9:55 AM (GMT -6)   
Bipolar type I is the most severe form.  Mostly manic, yes with psychosis, losing touch with reality, maybe voices in the head, marked irritability and anger.  It goes way beyond the hypomania (feeling euphoric, creative, lots of ideas of things to do, etc.)  It doesn't feel very good!
 
Besides working as a psych nurse, I was diagnosed with bipolar II 15 years ago (have had symptoms for 25!).  It did develop into type I about 5 years ago.
 
BP II doesn't necessarily experience the worst depression nor is it always more depression.  Every case is different.  I have never seen worse depression as in BP I.  It can incapacitate for weeks or months to the extent that taking a shower or going to the bathroom is about all we can accomplish in a day.  Severe weakness to the point of getting winded just walking across a room, much less being able to function.  These are the most common that we see in the hospitals.
 
Also type I may experience hallucinations and paranoia.  It's very different from type II and more difficult to control.

RanMan
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 648
   Posted 4/4/2005 10:59 AM (GMT -6)   

psychnurse,

Thanx for your explanation.

My son definately has bipolar 1.

His mania is out of control - losing touch with reality - mind constantly racing - keeps rambling and won't shut up - mood swings - aggresive behavior - always angry - lots of crazy ideas (dreamer) - spending money on stupid little gadgets just for the sake of spending money - he doesn't take his meds on a consistant basis (he's 19 yrs old now and we can't legally make him) he has a p/t job but only goes in when he feels like it (it's just a matter of time before he gets fired)

He also shows signs of ADHD. Although he was never dianosed with that, he can't focus on anything for more than about 2 mins.

As I mentioned to you in my last post, it spikes around Easter.

Then aroud October he goes into depression due to the lack of sunlight.

Randy


Diagnosed with epilepsy and ulcerative colitis in 1979,
Been on meds ever since.
 
275mg-dilantin/day
120mg-pheonobarb/day
3,000mg-Mesasol/day


psychnurse
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 4/12/2005 9:26 AM (GMT -6)   

I am so sorry to hear of your husband's problems.  It is a *****.  I especially feel for him in that he has lost a good career.  I did, too and I miss it very much.  Even on meds, some of us get to a point where stability is very fragile and too much stress will put us in the hospital again.

Please feel free to ask/tell anything you wish here - I am glad to be of any help I can.   But definitely keep him seeing his doc regularly! :-)

I am glad to hear of the program to help.  BTW, what are his current meds?

 

Shannon


psychnurse
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 4/15/2005 8:40 AM (GMT -6)   

Hi Mary!  It's good to hear from you. :-)   IMO, he is on a very good med combination, however if he is still having racing thoughts, his depakote probably isn't strong enough.  Ask his doc about that.

As far as Seroquel being bad for diabetes, Zyprex is equally, if not worse! confused   Seroquel doesn't cause the massive weight gain and craving for sweets that Zyprexa does which as you know is the worst thing for diabetes.  How long as he been on it?  The usual weight gain is 30-60 pounds in the first 6-8 months or so.  If he hasn't had any more cravings or gained any weight so far, it will probably be OK, although I have never seen that.  How often are you checking his sugars?  What is the average per day?  Has he had a glycohemoglobin (average blood sugar for the last 3 monts) lately?

He is sleeping well?  (at least 8 hours).  This is key for stability.

I am glad to hear he's getting out to do things, that's a very good sign!  You couldn't be more right about the excercise - it has helped me immensely - I started running (not marathons!!!) and Pilates every day last year - helps with self image and overall well being!).  yeah But when I get depressed, I can't.  But my mood swings aren't nearly as severe as they were before meds.  (I still have pretty good ones, at times, tho!!)  We all do, even on meds. eyes Is he having any signs of depression?

As far as quitting meds, yeah that is DEFINITELY part of BP, nono I have been no different until the last year or so.  We usually learn after a few times of that that we really need them!  Monitor him and make sure he's taking them EVERY day.  Every time he has a manic episode, it can get harder and longer to get back to stable.

Let me know, I care!  How are you holding up?  It can be really tough at times, but he does sound like he's doing reasonably well!

Shannon


Jo A223
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 45
   Posted 4/15/2005 1:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi All.........as a mom of a 25 year old who is bipolar, this is great to hear some suggestions.I am trying to find help through NAMI, but someone mentioned a program through the CMH(county mental health?)in their area.I have tried to find help through social services, since my son is on disability(gets a check for rent, etc, but is not always stable enough to pay bills correctly.) I could definitely use help with someone coming out to check on him, at his apartment....thanks to all and hang in there.........

Ericka Jean
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 4/16/2005 10:43 PM (GMT -6)   

I need some help and as much info as i can get.  Im so confused right now!!

I have been married 1 1/2 years now and my husbends family told me they thought he had bipolar.  This came after i called them wanting to know what was going on.  3 weeks ago he filed for divorce. that came two weeks after he brought me home flowers.  4 months ago he told friends of ours, (married couple having proplems) that we are in love more now than ever and counsling was the best thing we ever did and that they should give it a chance.  Now he said that he only said that to make them feel better.  He told me he fell out of love and can't get it back.  last winter he did nothing but sleep.  His friends all worned me that something was wrong. I just don't understand.  He can be very cold and mean and then be so sweet and caring and supportive.  Our marrege counsler said he has Bipolar just not as bad as his mother.  I was served by the sherif 2 days ago.  My husbend told me if i fought i would not have a leg to stand on and i would lose misserably.  But i come home finding him crying telling me that it herts him to see what this is doing to me and he pays all the bills and does all these things for me but tells me its over.  and that he hopes i don't hate him after this is all over with.  can anyone explain what this Bipolor is?


jujubeespmud
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 4/17/2005 8:07 AM (GMT -6)   
Ericka Jean, I would suggest that you go to your public library and get a couple of books out on Bi-Polar Depression. My husband suffers from this and is being treated by a physician. Medications alone do not "fix" the problem. Counseling is an important part as well. Also, any family members should learn about the disease and the affects on the patient as well. Counseling and support groups for the family are also helpful. Sleeping is part of this disease. The person is depressed and sleep takes them away from "reality". The medications that are used also contribute to the person wanting to sleep. One thing I can say, is that if your husband is not under a doctor's care for this ...get him to one. He must have meds and counseling. This is not something to play around with. Depression is serious and so is bi-polar. It is too many things to go into for me to tell you exactly what it is, but it is a chemical imbalance in the brain. The bipolar person can have extremes (highs and lows) in the way they think and act. Some go off on spending sprees, have gambling problems, alcohol abuse, relationships sexually with others, etc. Not every person who is bi-polar experiences all of these things and some are to a greater or lesser degree. But there is hope. You need to address the problem now. Do not wait. Even if your husband says your relationship is over, help support him to get him the help he needs. This will be hard, but you can save a person's life ..... I will keep you in my prayers. J.D. in MD

Ericka Jean
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 4/17/2005 9:14 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for your reply J.D
I have talked to my husbends family and they say one thing to me and another to him. He gets very angry and lashes out. He thinks becouse he has a stable job and is one of the top people in his company and that he owns a home that he does not have this. His mother and grandfather had it. The mother was realy bad. he says his mother was up one day and low the next and that is not him. The attorney i spoke with said i can file a motion in court that he has to be court ordeared into counsling but he can still say he does not want the marrege. I made a commitment to him before we married. It came from a big fight. His sister talked him into counsling and when i got home that night he said would you still love me if i was like my mother i said yes. I am going to counsling still he has not he refuses to go now! Thanks for the shoulder I realy need one and everyone seems like they are brushing me off. They all say one thing and then don't get the gumption to act. Thanks for talking with me!

Ericka Jean
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 4/19/2005 9:59 AM (GMT -6)   
I went to the library and took out the book, Bipolar Disorder, A guide for patients and families. This book is great. Some what sad becouse I have been doing all the wrong things. I just hope its not to late.
Thanks J.D.

Boo
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2004
Total Posts : 724
   Posted 4/24/2005 3:34 AM (GMT -6)   
Ericka, I'm sorry you're going through this kind of turmoil. My hubby is BP. He fell "out of love" with me about 8 years ago. Had a long term affair with my best friend (who is also BP, still not on meds). I know how tough this is and how much you hurt. It still hurts me very deeply at times and I wake up in the middle of the night and want to turn over and whack him a good one. But, I am stronger and more independent these days. After he was diagnosed he ended the affair and has worked very hard to put our marriage back together. I was finished with him but we did go to counseling and have been married for 32 years.
I found out a couple of days ago that he had not been getting his meds refilled and I went off! Life is too short to live with someone who doesn't want to be helped. He is back on his meds now and it will take some time to get his levels back up. I get exhausted and feel like I have another child to take care of. Sometimes it just doesn't seem worth it. But, this is a very serious disease and he doesn't know when He's "off". I have a list of people to call if I need help getting him to a hospital. Take care of yourself! Stay with the counseling so YOUR insides will feel better. Boo

RanMan
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 648
   Posted 4/24/2005 2:57 PM (GMT -6)   

Ericka Jean,

The attached links may give you a better undestanding of Bipolar


 
 
Randy
Diagnosed with epilepsy and ulcerative colitis in 1979,
Been on meds ever since.
 
275mg-dilantin/day
120mg-pheonobarb/day
3,000mg-Mesasol/day


Ericka Jean
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 11
   Posted 4/27/2005 7:11 AM (GMT -6)   

Thanks for your replies

I have read the 500 pg book i took out from the library.  I have tried talking to my husbend but he won't listen.  His sister and i have talked for the last 2 1/2 years and when I thought my husbend was going to get help his sister denied everything.  I have given up.  He says he still wan'ts the divorce.  I can remember awile ago i told him he needed to come down a few pegs and realize he is no better or diffrent from me, and he said O yes I am.  He told me the other day that he knows I'm angry and that i have a right to be but he is waiting for me to get over that.  What is this supposed to mean?  I can think of alot of things but his behavior still confuses me.  This morning he is doing dishes and cleaning the house before he goes to work.  He has been doing stuff like this and I haven't seen him do this since we first dated.  So i asked him why he was all of a sudden doing this stuff.  Is it becouse of what we are going through.  He said it has to be done. ok  This is so unlike him.  This Bipolar confuses me.  After all the reading I have done somethings still don't make any sense.  


Kathlyn1950
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2004
Total Posts : 462
   Posted 5/2/2005 3:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello, everyone. I am not suffering with bipolar disorder, but my dearest friend has been for many years now. Psychnurse, my friend also had to stop working after just a few years. We had gone through college together after our children were grown. She is just too fragile to work. Our work is quite stressful. I guess most people can say that, lol. Anyway, I really appreciate this forum and all the excellent information.
Had a CYPHER stent January 5, 2004 after a heart attack. Diagnosed with CAD and CHF. Need to care more about myself and do my exercises, lose weight and eat better. Still the happy grandmother of 4 beautiful grandchildren!


justkeepswimming
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 52
   Posted 6/9/2005 8:47 PM (GMT -6)   
I wish you the best of luck Ericka Jean.. you sound like a very kind person and i hope things work out for you. I sincerely hope your husband gets well soon.

cheers,
Just Keep Swimming.

Tara Stonefire
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 3/8/2007 7:40 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi, I've been diagnosed with bipolar type 1, rapid cycling, and mixed states.  I have a psychiatrist I see about every 3 months and I see a therepist about once a week.  I do have understanding of my bipolar, and a realization of about what is going on, due to the fact of my interest on how peoples minds work and how they react to things, as well as growing up with my mother haveing bipolar, rapid cycling and mixed states as well.  My mind and such are always conflicting with everything.  I have about gotten over trying to control it and trying to combat my mood swings.  I don't always like how I react to things and making it difficult on the people around me.  I can't work because of my mood swings and the physical problems that I have.  I take Amitriptyline for it because the mood stabilizers do not help me at all because of my body chemisty.  So far this is the best medication we have found.  It doesn't help too much with my moodswings but sometimes it helps shut up my mind so that I may sleep to help knock off some of the high as well as try to keep me from hitting rock bottom on a low. 
 
Anyway, I was reading what you all have said on this board and thought I might be able to give a bit of an insight about the men "falling out of love".  I have had problems with relationships because I would be with a wonderful guy and love him with all of my heart one day and the next not love him at all.  This really disturbed me.  I have hurt many guys because of this and i'm not happy about it.  I am really sorry for you both having to go through it.  I know it is not a pleasureable experiance.  (Sorry I am really horrible on explaining things as well as trying to collect my thoughts to try and get to a point, I had it all figured out kind of until I started typing lol). Ericka Jean, it sounds like to me he isn't really sure what he wants and that he is confused about his own feelings and such, which is completly typical from what I have seen.  And from the fact that he doesn't want to admit that he might be bipolar might also signal that he doesn't really know what bipolar really is.  He might still be on the kick that he thinks he can control it and that he doesn't need any help what so ever.  Most of us go through this phase a few times, it is part of the manic but we can keep thinking this even when we are depressed.  I know that I'll take something completly wrong and even though five minutes later when my mood is different and I'm not really angry about it anymore i'll try to hold onto being angry because I think that that is what I should be feeling, i'm completly stubborn.  It also might be that he is stubborn about this, or that he still thinks what a lot of people think about bipolar who really don't know anything about it.  I've heard people talking really bad about people with bipolar because of some bad experiances they've had with it and really do not understand it.  We do go through the moods of falling out of love with someone, it can be very tramatic for both people.  After the devorce and about a few months to a couple of years he will most likely come back to you, it depends on how often he swings.
 
 When he is telling you one thing and telling someone else another thing then coming up with an excuse of why he said it is another thing that bipolars do.  A mood will hit us to were we believe and think one thing then later on we will believe and think something completly different and try to cover up the fact that we ever thought something different.  I do it a lot...  It may be that he doesn't even know he is doing this.
 
His sister may have bipolar too... It can be passed down from parent to child.  It's a chemical imbalance. (lol you might have read that in your book so you most likely already know this).  I'm not sure exactly what to say next about all this, i'm sorry.  But maybe I might have helped a bit.
 
Ranman, sometimes a bipolar will show signs of being ADHD and not really be so.  It happens a lot in a manic phase.  When my thoughts are racing to where it will not slow down for me to hold on to or catch a thought, I will not be able to pay attention to something for very long.  For a bit of an example, my husband (who is also bipolar) will tell me quite frequently that i'm "jumping" because he'll say something and i'll say something completly off subject and he is left trying to figure out what I mean because he is still on the origional subject.  There are times when we sit down to talk about what is bothering either one of us and we'll get off subject 10 to 15 times before we get back to the origional subject.  Plus when I was in 2nd grade I had a horrible teacher that thought that I was ADD and somehow got the doctor to put me on medication.  They put me on Riddlin, which made me into a zombie to where I wouldn't eat anything until the medication wore off.  It wasn't helping so they kept uping it until I started seeing snakes come out of the walls.  When I got into 3rd grade after the snake thing my mother took me off of it and asked if my teacher noticed any difference, she said she didn't and they figured out that I am dislexic.  I think that if they also really looked they might have found that I was bipolar then but had extremly mild symptoms. Defenatly not as bad and extreme as they are now.
 
It is a bit hard for someone who is not a bipolar to completly understand someone who is bipolar.  I'm not saying that to be rude or mean.  It is wonderful for someone who lives with one to try to understand to the best of their ability of what is going on.  I don't know always know myself why I do something or say something.  So I don't even understand it all myself sometimes.  I don't know how well this might have helped but hopefully I may have helped a little bit.

Dragonhead
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 4/3/2008 12:18 PM (GMT -6)   

Hi

Ranman, Danarx and others. I just joined after reading some of what was said in the forum. I find conflicting information according to what I know. Ranman, was your child at 12 dx as Pediatric Onset of Bipolar Disorder? This is important as with antipsychotic meds the child will get worse. A good information source for this is 'The Bipolar Child' by Dr. Demetri Papolos. And this is why. My child was dx as Pediatric Onset of Bipolar Disorder after several other dx that the medical establisment thought was ADHD, ODD, OCD, and a lot of other dx that were not applicable to my boy. He was put on antipsychotics and decked a teacher at his school shortly after. We kept plugging away to find out what he had as the dx above are external symptons of a deeper problem. The school district wanted to keep punishing my boy for the problems rather than work with us. We took him to a well known pdoc and she dx him as being Aspergers. We then found the only person in the state who specialized in Aspergers and the first session she told us that he was not Aspergers but Bipolar. He was then put on a antiseizure (sp) med [depoke] which has worked well so far. I too am Bipolar (it is inherited) but I am on an antipsychotic and an antiseisure med. My pdoc feels this is a theraputic combination dispite warnings to the contray. In the case of the school system, when we were trying to get my child in special ed as this condition interfers with his education we met a tremendous amount of resistance. In the end the Special Ed told us that if we did not like the decisions then we could make a complaint to the Dept of Education for the state. We did, and in a landmark case we won because the DOE ruled that the district was in violation of Federal and State laws. The district lost their Spec Ed funding until they renumerated us and our child for the education they lost out on due to the disabilitys they had. all of our presentation was without a lawyer or advocate (we are trained advocates for Disability Rights and Childrens Rights) and based on the book 'The Bipolar Child'. I wish There were one for adults too. I have much more to read of the forum but I wanted to add a couple of my cents worth here.

Dragonhead

serafena
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 3715
   Posted 4/3/2008 7:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Dragonhead,

Welcome to the forum. What a story you have. There are several books available about bipolar for adults, but I get the sense you're looking for something specific in a book.

I wanted to point out that this thread is very old, and RanMan, etc. are no longer on the forum to my knowledge. Start with browsing the newer threads and work your way backwards, but there's rarely any point in replying to old threads unless you want to revive an old issue. In which case, I'd say, start a "New Topic" and bring it up yourself.

Thanks and welcome,

serafena
Serafena
Co-Moderator, Bipolar Forum
Bipolar II


Dragonhead
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 4/4/2008 9:54 AM (GMT -6)   
Thank you serafena. You are somewhat correct in that I am looking for something a little different Bipolar for adults. I just learned on a chat channel of the Bipolar I, II, III etc. and was looking for info on that. In so far as what I wrote about children, in my copy of The Bipolar Child there is a large difference between what Bipolarity looks like between adults and children. I learned the childs side fairly well, or at least well enough to represent my children effectivly. I have learned about some of my Bipolarity from what is attributed to a Bipolar child in how they present to the outside world. Wht a complex subject this is to learn about. I do thank you for your advice and will take it.

Dragonhead
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