Seroquel or Abilify?/ Someone plz reply!!

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sheryl=jk
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Date Joined Oct 2004
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   Posted 8/3/2005 8:14 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi, i usaully post in the lupus forum, but I have two children with special needs, and have questions on some medications that my son is taking, he is bipolar we discovered this when he was being treated for adhd, and the stimulants really upset him, very aggitated and depressed, he went manic on the antidepressants, and in his words said he was going crazy. Resperidal worked well for a  while, but there was tremendous weight gain in a short period of time, so he was switched to geodon, as my duaghter is on Geodon and is doing well with it in combination with prozac and buspar, she aslo takes an acidopholis supplement to keep yeast infectins at bay. She is 6 she is mildy autistic, and tourettes, she will manifest with some biploar traits, but more so the tourettes than anything, as with very early intervention the autsim is fading more and more, it rears its head when she becomes very anxious or frustrated, or scared, but for the most part she is is overcoming the autism (except for appropriate social ediqitte)( i cant spell!! sorry)But the desire for friends is there, and that is good. So she is fairly stable at this time. My son is not, after he was switched to geodon it did nothing, he was put back on resperidal, and even at higher doses it never did have the same effect as it had before, so the benifits were not outweighing the risks, at this time his pediatircian had been prescribing, and said you have got to get him a phychiatrist, he needs medications, but what exactly he needs is the question, so finally after searcing on my insurance for one that would take children that was not over 100 miles away form me, I found one. He has been on the seroquel for about 1.5 weeks, slowly  going up he is a t 75mgs now, I see no improvemnet at all, he fights the sleep, but when he is asleep he will sleep sound for 8 or more hours, but he was doing that before. He had been on no meds for about 2 months as his pediatircian said we should wean him off the reseperidal as there was no benifits. He will be 11 in nov, he looks about 15, with all the hormones to go with it, so I know that is adding to his issues as well. This phychiatrist we found wanted to try seroquel mainly becasue the Abilify was gonna to be twice as much of a co-pay for me, so we went with the Seroquel, but I beleive when we go back he is going to switch to the Abilify, I am wanting to know if any one has had any expeience with both of these two medications, and how they affected them, i know most posts on this forum are in regards to adults, but any help would be appreciated, he is as big as an adult. It seems the seroquel is not doing anything, he was not having a problem sleeping once he fell alsleep(with no meds at all), and its still pretty much the same, how is the seroquel suppose to affect him in the day, he is able to control his anger and mood swings at school to some degree but will explode at home over everything and anything. He seems quite opposed to taking anything that will making him sleepy(which I can relate to especially if its during the day)but he is taking the seroquel at night about 8.00 so about 9.00 he should be wanting and needing to be sleepy shouldnt he??, from what I read on the Abilify, its suppose to not only help stabilize mood swings but also help with depression, and he seems quite depressed, despite what we do for him. I realize having a younger sister with issues of her own is quite hard on him, and we do the best we can to adapt and give them both what they need, emotionally, spirtually,finacially and such. So I am wanting to know the difference between the Abilify and the seroquel, and how each is suppose to affect the bipolar person.Is the Abilify taken in the morning or night? In the past he presented with more mania, and impulsiveness, and destruction, but did not seem as depressed as he is now,he can still be quite manic but in a more angry way, he has always talked a zillion miles an hour with or with out meds, I think that is inherited, I talk quite abit myself, but I am no match for him!! Manic depressive, and anxiety, schizohrenia, an some obesity runs in my line of the family, so I really worry about him, also geniuos IQ runs down my line expect for me( I am average, i am thinking this is good!!), as I am learning Genious in itself can be a disorder, and all the members of my family who I mentioned with these disorders were had or have very high IQs, and my son gets straight A's without trying, without paying attention, he draws while she intsrtucts, and he aces the tests, how can he do this!! It just baffles me. his pediatrican thinks he is still adhd and bipolar, but since he is so smart he is able to get around the attention deficit part, how though??
I believe I am adhd myself, as when I was a child my mother had her phych put me on ritilan, I went to sleep, and if not sleeping I was hyperfocused on a blank tv screen, I am thinking that if I was not adhd I would have been bouncing off the walls?? I take Zoloft for depression, and its suppose to help anxiety, but it does not, but I cope the best I can with all thats on my plate right now, anyways sorry for such a long story, just want others experiences with the seroquel and the ABilify, his new doctor seems to think the Abilify will be good, I am hoping he will give samples to try first as its a 60.00 co-pay. ANy info or thoughts would be grealty appriciated, thanks in advance.....
Please someone reply, I notice I di nt get to many responses when I post here, Maybe becuse its a child and not an adult, but I wil take any experience thats adults have had with these meds as well, please let me knwo of anyones experiences with the meds, thanks you!!


***Take Care.....Sheryl***
 
SERENITY PRAYER: "GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE; COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN; AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE........

Post Edited (jk) : 8/4/2005 4:50:37 AM (GMT-6)


psychnurse
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   Posted 8/5/2005 2:15 PM (GMT -7)   

Abilify is being pushed, tho not approved, for monotherapy in bipolar disorder.  Monotherapy means no mood stabilizer, nothing for depression.  It is still in the experimental phase; it is not proven to be effective as an all around stabilizer.  It can worsen anxiety, relieve it for others, cause depression, and help calm mania, but not eradicate it for everyone.  It seems to be very person-specific.  I do recommend you take the samples for a good month (if he can tolerate it that long) before you cough up the high co pay. 

I am concerned that no one has put your son on a mood stabilizer.  Abilify and Risperdal and Seroquel are a class of drugs called atypical antipsychotics.  They typically do not work on stabilization, only the psychotic episodes (throwing things, freaking out, hallucinations, etc).  He is big enough physically to be taking meds that are approved for adults.  He could have been tried on any of the mood stabilizers there are, anyway.  His doc should have known that Geodon does not work on bipolar disorder, nor does Neurontin.  The recommended meds are lithium, depakote, tegretol, trileptal, lamictal and topomax.  The last 5 are anticonvulsants, used in epilepsy, so are Geodon and Neurontin, but these 2 are ineffective.

I would watch him very carefully; although getting good sleep is important, it doesn't take care of mania or psychosis. 

Most patients are on a stabilizer, antipsychotic, antianxiety, and lamictal or welbutrin for depression (no SSRIs, as these cause mania).  The brands are varied from patient to patient; all work differently in each person, it's a trial and error basis.

I highly recommend to every patient and every family member that they study, study, study about bipolar illness.  It is perhaps the most complicated along with schitzophrenia.  There are new studies that show a link between the two, that's why they mimic each other and are often misdiagnosed.  Read about what each class of meds does and what you can expect.  It is also important that your doc know which ones NOT to prescribe (SSRI antidepressants namely).

You have to work with your doctor; there is no one med or combo that will treat every person; the more you know, the more effective the treatment plan.  There are tons of websites done in layman's terms just for the sufferers and their families to learn from.


sheryl=jk
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Date Joined Oct 2004
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   Posted 8/6/2005 4:56 AM (GMT -7)   
Thank you Psychnurse for the information you gave, that was an eye opener, I haev read a good but if the bipolar child. I was under the impression that the antipsychotics were being used off label in the bipolar person as a mood stabilizer, so after what you wrote I need to ask about the depakote and such, I think the doctors try to be as conservative as possible with the children, but in many case the children need more than one medication, such as my daughter, she is on the antiphychotic, and an anti anxiety and a n antidepressant, and this is helping her. But really nothing seems to be helping my son, I am goign to print out what you wrote me and ask the phychiatrist about this. Thank you so very much for you helpful information, i very much appreciate it......
***Take Care.....Sheryl***
 
SERENITY PRAYER: "GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE; COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN; AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE........


kittycat27
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Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 438
   Posted 8/6/2005 8:23 AM (GMT -7)   
 God Shannon, I was hoping you would intervene on this one, didn't know if she posted yesterday or today (sat.) . I don't have a clue about either med, just knowing that I think you take serequel for sleep. The other one I never heard of, you know me , just for future reference I am about to google them both, just to learn. That woman , definately needed some help for her children's sake. I was kinda wondering myself where the mood stabiliser's were, then again I didn't know myself if it was different in children? I hate when someone posts and I can't help them, because I don't have the knowledge to. uhhhhhhh........ glad your here. So anyways, I know it's saturday so I'll talk to ya on Monday!        nickie

psychnurse
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   Posted 8/6/2005 10:15 AM (GMT -7)   
yeah, I take Seroquel.  Like everybody else, I was started on Zyprexa and gained a lot of weight - just couldn't stop eating!   I would actually be eating while I fell asleep!   This coming from a totally underweight (5'9", 103 pounds) person.  I gained almost 55 pounds!  Now I weigh 130, much better, but took several months.  Mania drove down my weight to the point I was a skeleton.  *shudder*
 
I had to cut that crap out!  Seroquel hasn't touched my weight or appetite, and works great for me, for sleep.  But as you know, everyone is different.  I am on here today, (sounds like some AA meeting, [I am here today becuase....]) cos Paul went shopping, it's so funny because he's ADD (seriously bad) and  hyperfocuses on stuff.  Consequently, he will stay at a store for a couple of hours.  I'm like the guy in the relationship who despises shopping (phobia of crowds and plain boredom), so we argue about when it's time to go!  Totally opposite, I know!
 
I am so glad to see you're on here, too!
 
Shannon

psychnurse
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Date Joined Mar 2005
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   Posted 8/7/2005 10:38 AM (GMT -7)   
Awwwww, thanks Nickie!  I really love helping people and of course bipolar is my "special interest", hehe.  I also love pharmacology (drugs, go figure).  JOKE!  Not anymore! nono

sheryl=jk
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Date Joined Oct 2004
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   Posted 8/8/2005 4:04 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks Shannon for your help, I had responded againthe other day but somehow it dis not get thru, computers!!! Heck it was probably something I did, but I will blame the computereLOL. His appt is on wed and I am goignto bring up why not using moodstabilzers like antielpetics, I am guessing becasue they are more strogner?? have to be monitered more blood wise, etc. Butif he will feel better with himself then so be it. almost two weeks on the seroquel now he is at 100 mgs he says he sleeps better, but he was allready sleeping fine. (wish I were!!) But as far as his daytime behaviour and moods still quite the same if not wosre, I have beeen keeping a journal i will show the doctor. I will ppst what doctor says on wed. Anyways thanks again for the insight and help.......Sheryl smurf
***Take Care.....Sheryl***
 
SERENITY PRAYER: "GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE; COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN; AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE........


psychnurse
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Date Joined Mar 2005
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   Posted 8/8/2005 5:45 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi, Sheryl, oh, you're welcome, no problem! :-)
 
about stabilizers - only lithium and Tegretol need blood levels; no one really uses Tegretol anymore, Trileptal is a variant of that and works great (I take it) and also doesn't have the nasty weight gain side effect.   Anyway, the ones I listed other than tegretol and lithium do not need blood levels, and they are not stronger (in fact not really sedating at all) than the Seroquel/abilify.  They just work better on moods.
 
I'm glad you're giong to bring this up to your doc.  If he gets all uppity about your bringing this up, find a new one.  Some docs have more ego than brains, lol!  This is what you HAVE to do with treating bipolar; you have to work with the doc. 
 
Please let us know what he said, what he prescribed, etc., OK?
 
Shannon

sheryl=jk
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   Posted 8/8/2005 7:42 AM (GMT -7)   
Yes Shannon I will definately let you all know what they say, and what they prescibe him. My daughter was tryed on the trileptal, and it most definatley did not wrok for her, but she is probably not bipolar, she is dx with mild autism, and now she is manifesting with tourettes, here geodon, prozac, and buspar combo, actually works real well for her. geodon did nothing for my son, and buspar just made hi tired. And zoloft drove him crazy in his words exactly!! I will keep posted.....
***Take Care.....Sheryl***
 
SERENITY PRAYER: "GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE; COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN; AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE........


psychnurse
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   Posted 8/8/2005 8:39 AM (GMT -7)   
Yeah, she is not bipolar, geodon doesn't work for BP.  And yes, i am always saying antidepressants in the SSRI class are a bad idea for BP, they almost always cause mania; I'm not surprised.  I do not know for the life of me why docs, esp. pdocs continue to prescribe them.
 
I will be interested to hear what happens at his visit!  Good luck!
 
Shannon

sheryl=jk
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   Posted 8/8/2005 12:09 PM (GMT -7)   
Thank you, I will let you know what happens..
***Take Care.....Sheryl***
 
SERENITY PRAYER: "GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE; COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN; AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE........


sheryl=jk
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Date Joined Oct 2004
Total Posts : 4083
   Posted 8/10/2005 3:51 AM (GMT -7)   
Well today is the day he goes back been close too three weeks on the seroqul, I thought is wasonly two but by mondayit will be three weeks. I see no improvement at all. I am nervous, I like the psychiatrist who comes in afterwards, but I don tlike the nurse I forget what she is called, but she is soemwhat intimadating, good for my son, he needs that, but bad for me, I feel intimadating enough as it is. He spent yesterday on the way to and from the dentist screaming at his sister, and telling me everything is my fault, that is a spoke nicer to him he would be fine. Both my husband have tryed the sweet, kind, nice, patient route with him to no avail. Now I am not screaming and yelling at him, I just try to be firm and stand my ground. he continuly cpmpares me to his friends parents, adn how calm they are etc, what is not understanding is that their children are not behaving in the same manner as he is with their parents. I ts very difficualt to be calm, sweet, nice, kind, etc etc when your child is threatening to kill his sister , and throwing things and breaking things, and going completly manic, I really do try to remain as calm as possible, but i cannot bring mysefl to be sugary sweet, when I want to explode my self from sheer stress. I realize i stand rooom for omprovement as we all do, how do I be the kind of mother he is wanting me to be when I am scared that anything I say could make him exlpode at any minute unknowingly saying the wrong thing. Sorry you all I am just venting, I am very very frustrated and worn out. I am still greiving the death of my mother, trying to find a job, and desperatly get the all of us the help we need be physical, mental, finincial etc. When i get a job I am going to see a psychiatrist as well, not this lady though, do not feel comfortable with her. Anyhow I will let you know how appt goes today, please wish us luck, we need it!!!......
***Take Care.....Sheryl***
 
SERENITY PRAYER: "GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE; COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN; AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE........


psychnurse
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Date Joined Mar 2005
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   Posted 8/10/2005 6:24 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi, jk, I'm sorry you have to be going tthrough all this; I do understand how hard it must be!  He's completely unreasonable!   Try to remember, it's not him!   He is so irritable now that everything sends him into a rage, even little sounds or smells.  He will take it out on whoever is closest, and esp parents.  You CANNOT do anything to make that better, no matter how nice you are.  Remember, it's not your fault, and it's not his, he's sick, but I do know you could give a crap when it's happening.  It's so hard to feel sorry for us, because we're soooo mean!  I hope to shout they put him on a mood stabilizer!  He will come out of that, fairly quickly and in some cases overnight, if the dose is high enough.  It's different for everyone, tho, and not a good idea to overload.  I was on 1500 mg depakote and 400 mg Seroquel.  I was very small, (5'9", 103 pounds), totally emaciated from the mania, so  basically no body fat at all, and that knocked  me into next week.  It was an overnight thing with me.  I remember I slept all night and all the next day.  I do recommend depakote; lithium can take up to 2 weeks, but docs for some reason seem to always try that one first, when depakote works just as well, except that some studies show it stabilizes depresson, too, but the jury is still out on that one, nothing proven definitively yet. The main reason people quit depakote is that it does cause significant weight gain in almost all patients, if that happens you will probably want to try another anticonvulsant that doesnt, but the reason they arent used first is that they don't get the stabilization in the beginning as well, many of them will continue it once it happens, tho.
 
Well, as per usual, I have rambled on, like I do!  I am so anxious to hear what happened at his visit today!   Please write in as soon as you can, ok?
 
Shannon

sheryl=jk
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   Posted 8/10/2005 12:44 PM (GMT -7)   
Oh Shannon it didnt go real well, but not real bad either. The lady we talk to is nurse practioner I guess, I secretly to myself and my close friend call her nurse rachett!! She is somewhat intimadating, but I stood my ground, she kept sayng well he has only been on it 2.5 weeks, it takes time. And scolded me becasue I havent got him into counsleing yet, well I know firsthand with my daughter and my mother and brother etc the couseling aint gonna do a hill of beans if the person you are counseling is not receptive to the counseling and i told her so. I told her its taking me oveer a year to find a place that would take a child who is on my insurance, that wasnt between a 100 to 200 miles away from where I live, thats why I chose here, because I could finally get him in somewhere. then I ask do you have any reccomendations of anyone I can see on my insurance, and she did nto have much to say. I asked why are we not using the gold standard of medication for bipolar such as the anti seizure medications, she sadi becsue these were newer, and with better results and less side effects, I kept my shut, becasue I really dont if they are or not, but I do know they cannot know the full extent of side effects on the newer ones becasue they have not been around long enough to know long term side effects. Finally she brought the dr in before we were to go, I asked him the same thing, why the newer ones that are antiphychotics, instead of the traditonal one used for mood stabilzers such as the antielpitics, he said well thats like comparing why do you take aspirn insteadof tyenlol, I said no its not, I cant take asprin it will kill my stomach and tylenol wont, and aspirin is a blood thinner, and and an antiimmfl;ammatory and tylenol is not. He said nothing, he said the newer antiphycitcs have been fda approved to be used and classified as mood stabilizers in the use of bipolar. I said ok, he said the side effects were less and results were better in the newer one. he said to keep him 100mg of seroquel since he is tolerating well, not making worse and is sleeping well, and to add the abilify to it and go from there, if this workd good we will continue adjust the dose up if needed, if it not work at all then we would go to the anti eleptic medications. So I agreed to that. I like him a bit better than her. I am going to seek my own phychiatrist for me soon her as I know this is all taking a toll on me in more ways than one. Ok now look whos rambling!! by the way you were not rambling, I need as much info and support as I can get, I truly appreciate you taking the time to listen to me and the advice you have given me is wonderful, thanks you so much...Love....Sheryl

Ps i will let you know how he does ont he abilify seroquel combo...
***Take Care.....Sheryl***
 
SERENITY PRAYER: "GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE; COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN; AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE........


psychnurse
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Date Joined Mar 2005
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   Posted 8/10/2005 2:11 PM (GMT -7)   
So, he just wouldn't prescribe depakote?  Didn't you say you couldn't afford Abilify?  Did you tell him this?  It's not a real good sign if your doc won't work WITH you.  Not saying Abilify won't work, it is indicated, but it's so new yet and it's expensive!
 
2.5 weeks seems an excessive amount of time to wait for stabilization, IMO.  I was stablized overnight with depakote and zyprexa.  But we're all different.
 
I'll be interested to hear how Abilify is working for him, please let us know, even daily, how he is.  I know it's miserable.  Please take care of yourself too! :-)
 
Shannon

sheryl=jk
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   Posted 8/11/2005 3:53 AM (GMT -7)   
Yes i cannot really afford Abilify, he gave me samples, and if it would work I will find away. But last night he got sick even after eating with the abilify so I dotn knwo if it will work or not, he may been sick before the abilify, it was a good 4 horus before he threw up after only 5mgsof abilify, but he could not keep is seroquel down, which he has not thriwn up before, so I dont know, we will see. My friend is trying to get us into anther doctr that is on our insurance thats is not currently seeing new patients but said that he would see us, but I dont knwo if this will oan out, I here very good things about him and he lsitens not judges,as this ldy ws doing. My childrens pediatirician knows this other doctor real well aand says he is great if you can get in, please pray we can get in, I so despratly need a doc who is going to listen and know what he is doing, and that I can trust. i am so frustrated at this point, and I am learing new news about my mothers death that is very disturbing that there is a very likley chance this assisted living home she was in had soemthing to to with her death, and not just hers other people too, the place was in the newpaper frim where she lived in las vegas, with a story on another lady's death with foul play suspected, and i belive there was foul play in my mothers death as well, they knew she had no family near by to check in on her. She was not allowed to make outgoing calls, and we were not allowed to call there, so they had free reign to do what ever they wanted,tey controlled all her meds. first its was a month before we knew she had passed, now we found out the death certificate says heartattack, she never had heart problems ever, other problems, but not heart pronlems, evenher drs commented on how strong her heart was they said her heart is as strong as a horse. she was cremated with out us beign notified, so there can be no autopisy done, her roomate said she was absolutly fine one day then the next day she was not. they had her sighn a second rent check for the month of june when they were allready paid for june, but the second check had scribble for a signature not her signature, either it was forged or she was forced, this was 1.5 days before her death, and they had her room rented out in three days, which is a process that usally would take about 3 weeks if a person was lucky to get in, so they knew and had someone lined up to be in there. they were trying to sell her motorized wheelchair, right after her death, my mothers friend found out about it and had it taken to paralzyed veterans and it was given to a young man who had fought in the war in afghanstan after the 9-11 attacks, so i feel good someone got it, it was a nice moterized wheelchair. Anyways sorry for venting just very uneasy these days, and alot on my mind, needed to vent. I will keep posted to how my son is doing, thanks for listening..Love...Sheryl
***Take Care.....Sheryl***
 
SERENITY PRAYER: "GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE; COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN; AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE........


sheryl=jk
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Date Joined Oct 2004
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   Posted 8/11/2005 6:19 AM (GMT -7)   
Son is worse than ever, he woke fine and all, thats not been a real problem, but we get int he car to wait for the childrens buses my daughter usally sits in the back seat and I give her permissiont to open both the back windows as it is hot outside, evn at 7.30 in the morning its 75 degrees, plus she just want to put her head out the window at look around. He does not want her to open the window on the side that is behind him, he sits inthe frotn with me, and keeps his window closed, i keep mine open, he feels since the window in the backseat is behind him that he can controll wether it gets opened or not, he feels even though I tell her its ok to open that he has the fianl say he physcially hurt this morning and a cpuple mornings ago, but this time he pinched her so hard she bled, this is all in an effort to keep her from opening the window, I tryed to stop him but he is stronger than me, and its very difficult, I am very depressed myself and hope I can find a good phychiatrist for all of us. Thanks for listening...
***Take Care.....Sheryl***
 
SERENITY PRAYER: "GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE; COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN; AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE........


psychnurse
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Date Joined Mar 2005
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   Posted 8/11/2005 8:15 AM (GMT -7)   

Since he is that bad to where you can't even physically control him, and he has drawn blood on your daughter, you really have no choice but to get him into the hospital.  Your insurance will cover that.  It really is an emergency.  Just taking him to the ER won't change anything. 

Otherwise, you have no choice but to call the police, and they will take him to juvie.  You just can't put yourself and your daughter at risk, there is no telling what he will do next.  Even if he calms down, it will more than likely happen again, probably later today.  He desperately needs to be stabilized ASAP.  They will do that in the hospital, that is the whole reason he needs to go.  You don't have 2.5 weeks, and your pdoc should have known that if he listened to your complaint. 

Please follow my advice, I wouldn't recommend it if it wasn't an emergency.


sheryl=jk
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   Posted 8/11/2005 9:23 AM (GMT -7)   
I know you are right, so from all I have told you, you think that if I hospitilize him that would help, what will they do to stabilize him, so all that I have written you of late is grounds enough to hospitlize him? have parents hospitilzed there children fro lesser reasons, as you can tell I am real apprenhisve about it, but at my wits end, I dont wont to do that, but if it would help, how long would we he have to be in there, what do I tell the school. would they put him on approriate meds to keep him stablized thereafter? sorry so many questions just very scared and very nervous, thanks again for you support, i will keep you posted....
***Take Care.....Sheryl***
 
SERENITY PRAYER: "GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE; COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN; AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE........


sheryl=jk
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Total Posts : 4083
   Posted 8/11/2005 9:43 AM (GMT -7)   
So Shannon so many questions, i am very scared and uneasy about evrything, I have been keeping a daily journal for the last month on him. I s there anyway I can send it to you via email so you can see what is goign on and judge for yourself whats truly going on. Another question is do I just bring in in there and have him admitted? Or do I need a doctor to. does it have to be these people we saw yesterday, I dont like them, they told me to call the police if things got out of hand, i dont want to do that. I did not feel comfortable with these doctors yesterday at all, his pediatrician however is very aware of the situation, if he needs a doctor to admit him can she do it? what will I expect with all this, I am sorry for bombarding you with so many questions, I am just very worried for my son and for my family, and really need some where to turn too, thanks for your kindness....Love...Sheryl
***Take Care.....Sheryl***
 
SERENITY PRAYER: "GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE; COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN; AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE........


psychnurse
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 8/11/2005 9:53 AM (GMT -7)   

jk, I understand your concern, nobody wants to think they or their kid needs to be hospitalized.  But they are there for a reason!

Your son is downright dangerous due to his mania.  Don't you think that's a good enough reason to get him stabilized?  Think about it. 

The usual stay is 4 days.  They will stabilize him before he gets out.  That's the sole reason for going. 

They will stabilize him with medication, and he will be under strict observation 24/7.  It's nothing like what you see on TV, that's ridiculous.  There aren't crazy people walking about, drugged out of thier minds.  You really wouldn't even know it, unless somebody is just admitted.  He will share a room with someone, or alone, depending on the load.  It's usually a fairly small place, not like a big hospital.  The doors are locked at all times, but the patients are free to walk about, there is a TV room, snacks, but lots of intense group therapy and frequent checks with the doctor.  Every possible thing you could think of is taken from them, so as to not hurt themselves.  It's basically impossible.  Not even shoelaces are allowed. 

You need to trust the medical professionals to do their job, you cannot.  When he gets out, he will probably be a little angry, but he will be stable.  They will prescribe meds to continue it, of course!  There is usually outpatient therapy for a couple of weeks when he gets out as well.

You do not have to tell the school what kind of hospital he's in, just get a doctor's note that he was ill (do not specify) to cover the few days he's in, no biggie.

This is totally to be expected with manic BPs.  No one gets out of it, really.  You need to do whatever you have to do to keep your family (and him!!) safe. 

Please get him in there TODAY!


psychnurse
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 8/11/2005 10:28 AM (GMT -7)   

I  am not really sure of the paperwork end of this; call your insurance company (the mental health line on the back of the card), because they can all be different in what they require.  Ask about which doc to call, or if you even need to. 

You won't have a choice of who he sees in the hospital, it depends on who's doing call during that period of time.  It will be the same doc, tho, not different ones on different days, so the treatment will be consistent.  Besides, jk, it really doesn't matter, they are all qualified to stabilize him, and he is going to hate whoever treats him, anyway.  He doesn't have to follow up with whatever doc treats him, the important thing is that he get better - quick.   It's time to stop babying him, he is very sick and needs more help than he has been getting.  It simply doesn't matter what he wants or likes.  He won't like anything.  And I know you are probaly very worried that he will "hate" you.  No, he won't.  He will be very angry, especially when you take him, and he may need to be restrained by the ambulance, since he is stronger than you.  When he is feeling better, he will probably thank you.   It's the best thing you can do for him, your doc is right, it's either the hospital or juvie.  I think you would prefer the hospital, and so would he.

Please, if you don't trust anyone, trust me on this, OK?   


sheryl=jk
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2004
Total Posts : 4083
   Posted 8/11/2005 11:56 AM (GMT -7)   
I have spoken to my husband and he agrees, I need to call the insurance card and see what procedure they will have me take, I hope to God it does not have to be the people he was seeing, I will ask if his pediatrician can do it. I will let you know what happens, I may wait until saturday to this if a all possible, if not depending on this afternoon it may tonight. iwill let you know thank you so much for you help..Love..Sheryl
***Take Care.....Sheryl***
 
SERENITY PRAYER: "GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE; COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN; AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE........


psychnurse
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 8/11/2005 12:19 PM (GMT -7)   
I'm glad you're going to do it, but I will just add this:  It needs to be today.   If he settles down, you will think its over and you wont send him.  It won't be I promise.  he will still be unstable, which means unpredictable.  Please do it today, so he can better sooner.

sheryl=jk
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2004
Total Posts : 4083
   Posted 8/11/2005 3:04 PM (GMT -7)   
Unforntunaltey it cannot be today I called insurance, they said I had to call the hospital set up assement, they decide if he needs inpatient, outpatient etc, i think with him injuring his sister and threatening her and past episodes they will inpatient him, but I dont know how long it will even get to to be able to get to that, and if they have beds available if they dont he has to be outpatient, the only way to get him in today woul d be to take him to ER, now if he is a calm as a cucumber at ER they are going to laugh at me, and send us home, he would have to have done something really bad to himself or someone and be completley out of control this evening for ER to transfer him to the hospital he would need to go to. Hopefull for everyones sake he doesnt go off the deepend tonight, and that we will make til the assesment time, will they listen to what I have to say, or go soley on what he has to say to them. I haev daily journals documenting evrything for the last year, and a history of his earlier years, will they consider that, or only base their descion on what they see that day. he has a history of harming his sister, 3 yrs ago he was mad at me, I cant even remebr why, I probabaly reprimanded for something, and his sister was just 3 at the time and she was wrapped under a towl in the hallway just out of the bath, and he stepped on her back becasue he was mad at me. I know this was 3 yrs agi, and he should have went to a hospital then, but I didnt know better at the time. will they take this history into consideration? I guess I am just concerned that they will turn us away if he seems not to bad on the day I take him for assesment. what do you think?....
***Take Care.....Sheryl***
 
SERENITY PRAYER: "GOD GRANT ME THE SERENITY TO ACCEPT THE THINGS I CANNOT CHANGE; COURAGE TO CHANGE THE THINGS I CAN; AND THE WISDOM TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE........

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