Physical vs Emotional

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Ellie 1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 1291
   Posted 8/19/2005 8:30 AM (GMT -7)   
I know that BP is a physical disorder but how much of it is affected by emotional situations?  Is there usually an outside "trigger" that begins an episode or is it just random.  I'm doubting my diagnosis again.  It just seems that there is always some major stress going on when I become my most manic.  Maybe this is something else? E

kittycat27
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 438
   Posted 8/19/2005 3:22 PM (GMT -7)   
Ahhhhhhh Ellie still doubting your dx. I want to rid my dx, but have to understand that no matter how many f**** times I say i am not BP, than I have to say I am something else. So let's see what else can I be? I could be alot worse off, of course, but jump in my head and it doesn't feel that way. I think I understand what your asking though. Bp is a physical and mental illness correct, or am I freakin losing it. really mental causing physical, help me out anyone. Stress I am sure could make any situation worse. I would say that goes for anything. Stress triggers my mom's migraines. Years of misdx, because she has the same symptoms as stroke patients. Now she manages it. ( meds, and other things) Stress can do alot to ones body.When I am manic I think I have alot of things going on at once that I cannot seem to manage. I have tried stress management classes at school, using time effectively.... blah blah blah..... that's what I think of all of that. So what are you wanting to know? Or what are you trying to say? That when stress hits , you aren't really prepared for it, so your emotions get a little out of whack, and it's really not BP. Ellie......... I want the same thing you do, to believe that I am not. Maybe you are not. I don't know for sure , I don't see enough of your posts, and I am not a professional. Well kinda, but only at being BP.lol Excuse my sarcasm, not directed at you, only myself for not being able to control myself, I hate not being in control. I always had a plan as a little girl, and as I sit here and throw a f******pity party and cry, Bp was never included into my plan or agenda. iT went and screwed everything up and I hate that. I wonder and worry that my daughter will have to go through this and pray everyday that she wont. I would never have another child , cause I am scared. She will probably resent me growing up for all that I might potentialy put her through and who could blame her. I blame myself, for not being the best mother a mother could be. I hate today, and want it to be over faster than you know, and maybe tomorrowI can be human. If there was a plan that a higher being had for me, this was too much for me to handle, thanks for listening........................

Ellie 1
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Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 1291
   Posted 8/19/2005 4:59 PM (GMT -7)   
You really hit a chord with me there.  You hate not being in control.  Me too. Im a control freak.  Not with anyone elses life.  Just self control.  Thats why I guess I wont take the meds.  Then I lose.  I've admitted I can't do it on my own and I've failed.  I bust my butt every day trying to hold on just a little longer.  Found ways to distract myself from the anxiety and agitation.  Then it becomes too much and back on the meds I go.  For awhile.  Then I try again.  I bounce back and forth believing my dx and not believing it.  I hate this crap too. Sometimes it seems like I just had a little more control I could make this all stop.  Like I'm doing it on purpose.   Thats what most people think about BP anyway.

kittycat27
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 438
   Posted 8/19/2005 5:12 PM (GMT -7)   
 Whew first line I read of yours I thought you were gonna cuss me out, then you said me too. :-) This all sucks Ellie, keep us posted, I didn't realize you weren't taking your meds. I thought you were. Anyways, I am by no means judging , I just thought you were. You should post more then, it's good to vent or just talk. I am starting to calm, but not much. Sincerely, I am just tired. This is what I do every week, I think I should write a book. I know I am only 27, but S*** alot happens in one day, I should be like 107. lol Hopefully we will all feel better tomorrow. Until then...

Ellie 1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 1291
   Posted 8/20/2005 9:07 AM (GMT -7)   

It takes alot more than that to make me mad.  I might yell at the kids occasionally, but to get angry with someone I don't really know comes under those control issues.

I was on meds and then off and then on again then off.  Im sure you know the drill.  Part of me really wants to do this the way the dr. says and the other part says shes wrong and I'm just weak.  I haven't really felt that my hubby wanted me taking the meds either.  I don't know if it's having me on them or having to pay fior them but I could feel waves of disapproval emmanating from him.  But in all fairness he never said stop.  Just that we couldn't afford them. 

I've had alot of people in my life telling me that i've chosen this.  That reguardless of what dx i've had theres nothing wrong with me.  I just need to get myself under control.  Some days I believe them and some days I don't.  I'd love to be like everyone else and am deathly afraid of it at the same time.  Of losing the spark and melting into the crowd.  I'm not making any sense today really.


psychnurse
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 8/20/2005 11:28 AM (GMT -7)   

Oh, Ellie, you make perfect sense to us!  We've all been there, numerous times! 

I am just incredibly sorry (and angry) at the lack of support from friends and family (namely your husband, he should be your main supporter).  F*** anyone who tells you it's your fault, IT ISN'T!  It IS a physical illness of the brain, and the brain is no less an organ than heart, liver or kidneys!   I HATE people that don't understand that, actually that WON'T.  They are ignorant, and THEY are weak for not learning something and holding on to their ridiculous, ignorant beliefs probably because they don't want to admit they are WRONG!  mad It just happens to be an area of the brain that rules emotions and behaviour.  Think abuot this, if it was really "our fault" how then, can we ALLLLLLLLL have the same symptoms????!!!!!!!  The irritablity, the sleeplessness, the rage, the spending, the promiscuity, the substance abuse, etc.  Hmmm.  Maybe 'cause its PHYSICAL?  Duh. You need to STOP worrying about what other people think, if they aren;t supportive, they don't deserve your concern about that.  You have to take care of YOU, because no one else is going to, understand?  YOUR health is most important, if it was your heart they would be tripping over themselves to help support you and get you the meds you need.  I have no patience or tolerance for this type of stubborn ignorance in this day and age of information (can you say GOOGLE?)

Sorry to rant, hon, I just think this kind of stigma f***s with our heads and we start to believe it.  It's just not true.   If you ever get on and stay on meds, past the bad part that is temporary  don't quit until you find the right ones and actually level out, you'll wonder why you waited so long and wasted the time being miserable.  Don't doubt your dx, it's real and it won't go away, it's permanent and you can only look forward to a worsening condition with time. 

Yes, stress adds a GREAT DEAL to mania, it is a major trigger.  Why do you think so many BPs, including me, can't work anymore?  We can;t stay out of the hospital under too much stress!  Not that everyone is that bad, but it's pretty common.  If Social Security recognizes is as a disability, you KNOW it's bad!

STaying well isn't just meds, tho, it takes a lot of effort controlling stress, eliminating drugs and alcohol, sleeping plenty, etc.  to stay that way.  Yeah, it's work, but sooooo worth it.  But, the choice is up to you. :-)


psychnurse
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 8/20/2005 11:36 AM (GMT -7)   
Oh, and about your concern of losing the "spark" - honey, we ALL have that fear!   You're no different because guess why?  You're BIPOLAR!  Only we have that "spark".  dont be afraid of that either, you will feel lost, not like yourself and not "sparky" for a time while your brain adjusts to normalcy (or as close as we get, haha), then your spark will come back, but you won't be nasty anymore, in fact you will have a sparkle with charm that others love.  Most all of us have hearts of gold, we are mroe understanding than some people, we're very sensitive (tell me about it!) and empathic, and that will come through.  You will start to be able to put yourself in someone elses place, not just your own.   You will be less selfish.  I never gave ANYTHING, always had to have my way.  Now I have learned to compromise or just give others what they want, and it actually feels better than getting my own way.  These are not things you typically feel when you're sick.  There are so many things that you will keep finding along the way.  There is a price to pay, a crash, but it's temporary and more than worth it.
 
Now, I'm as sharp as I used to be, just not mean, irritable and miserable, wanting to jump out of my skin.  Well, I can't multitask like I used to (superwoman), but it's a trade I gladly accept.
 
So don't worry about being dull, it only lasts for a short while.   

Ellie 1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 1291
   Posted 8/22/2005 7:17 AM (GMT -7)   
Most days I'm okay unmedicated. I have my moments when I'm sleep deprived and stressed though. I've never really gotten to be selfish, I have alot of kids and my life is mostly about them. I'm not complaining. This is exactly what I wanted in life. To be surrounded with children.
The crash has been my biggest problem. When it happened I wasn't functioning at all. I think my husband was getting irritated. Probably why he was so supportive about me going off the meds. I was very depressed and irritable and he expected it to all go away once I was on the meds.
I actually was doing fairly well for a long time. The problems seemed to resurface when my husband and I reconciled. With my husband and stepson here we are now seven people in a three bedroom apartment. Were packed in here like sardines and I'm not dealing with the stress well at all. Its okay sometimes, like now when all but one of the kids are in school and shes still asleep. Its just me and a mini-daschaund up and all is quiet and calm. When everyone gets home though I feel like crawling up in a corner and screaming. I usually stay in the kitchen with the stereo blasting.
I've tried explaining this to my husband but if it's not hooked up to a computer screen or a game console, he is oblivious. If I could get someone to stamp "Sony" on my forehead I might have more success. This forum is the only support I'm getting on this right now.

psychnurse
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 8/22/2005 7:37 AM (GMT -7)   

Ellie, it does NOT sound like you're OK.  That's a classic claim that manic BPs say when they are manic/hypomanic, you probably know that by now.  Stress brings/aggravates it.   That is sooooo not normal.  I understand being in a small space, but to avoid being with the family, wanting to scream, etc.  You said you wanted to be surrounded by children, yet you say when they are all there, you stay in the kitchen, blocking everyone and everything out with the stereo blasting.  That really could be lessened or even gone on meds.  But, I guess you are one of those BPs who is just not willing - yet - to get stabilized. Maybe someday, that way you can enjoy your family.   Mind you, I am NOT judging you, Ellie, but you're not making any sense, you are contradicting what you say.  I do understand you don't even realize it, you're sick and we dont see it when we're in it.  Crashes are inevitable, but temporary before you can get better.  Your hubby should be supporting you, doesn't he want you to get well?   Have you had him learn how it works?  Have you tried a BP support group in your area, or at least a therapist who can teach him?  Lots of times it means more to them when  a professional in the field explains it, not just you. 

I really do hope at some point you will get on meds and stay on them, so you can find out what enjoying life really means. 


Ellie 1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 1291
   Posted 8/22/2005 8:16 AM (GMT -7)   
I guess that really didn't make much sense. Most days I love being surrounded by kids but since there have been two extra people here I haven't been able to cope with it. I love my husband and stepson but this may be more than I can handle.
And you could be right about me not wanting to be stablized. This hypomania has been a godsend at times. It almost always turns up when I need it. IT's only when it shoots me over the moon into full blown mania that I can't handle it. Thats only happened three or four times in my life.
There are many financial issues here as well. It comes down to my meds or the kids. Asthma and allergy meds are a must in this house, and there have been times when my son has gone without his allergy meds for days because we simply couldn't buy them. my dr. can't do samples long term and another dr means another copay that we can't make right now. As for my husband wanting me to get better, well, I don't think he believes there is really a problem. Sometimes I don't either. Maybe thats the biggest problem of all. Probably shouldn't even be posting here if im not willing to fix it.

psychnurse
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 8/22/2005 8:32 AM (GMT -7)   

Don't ever say that Ellie!  Of course you should post here!  IT's a support forum for all of us!  The only thing is, considering I know it from both sides, I have a hard time "supporting" a BP not on meds.  I just can't can't help it.  I'm just trying to get you to look at it from another (sane) angle.  It's not personal, I just want so badly to help you, you always sound so down.  You're the classic, unstable BP who thinks they are fine.   I think it is criminal you don't get support from your husband.   He is supposed to support you and want you to be better.  Surely he can see you're not really happy, even tho you appear/feel it sometimes. 

Sounds like you have insurance, does it not cover most of the cost of your meds?  I don't know if you have tried lith, but it's dirt cheap.  Serious mental illnesses like BP are just as important as physical ones.  Isn't there any way you could cut back on something, to pay for it?   I'm not trying to be nosy, just help.  It really doesn't matter what your husband wants, you are sick and your getting better should be for YOU.  The family WILL benefit. 
 
I will quit preaching now, you will be in my thoughts.

psychnurse
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 8/22/2005 8:35 AM (GMT -7)   

Chaklgirl, are you on meds?  If not, why?  It doesn't sound like it, and if you are, they are the wrong ones.  

Are you type I or II?  When did you get diagnosed?  Never mind "should be thankful", blah blah blah, mad it doesn't matter when we're sick we all know that by now. 

Are you seeing a pdoc?  Who diagnosed you?


stox4pat
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 214
   Posted 8/22/2005 10:09 AM (GMT -7)   

Hi Everyone! Shan how ya' doin..did u get my loooong email last nite, do u hate me cuz of my political views..LOL( I HOPE NOT!) Nicki, I miss you, nd I have been thinking about u..today is day one...THE GIRL CAN AND WILL KNOCK EVERYONE'S SOCKS OFF...you go girl, and dont u stop the meds, pretty please? You got it all...everything I wished for, I know u will make the most of it yeah

Now Ellie...darlin' we must talk. First of all, I must tell u to think hard and strong about what Kittycat and Psychnurse are telling you, they virtually saved my life. Now, my friend I am sorry u r having financial probs, but it is all about priorities. And your first priority is TAKING YOUR MEDS. I am flabbergasted, especially since u have insurance. No offense but I am FLOORED at your husband. You write that if it doesnt have Sony..a playstation, TV, etc. on it he isnt interested. Well, my dear THAT IS WHY u cant afford meds. My husband and I have our probs, but look at all the friggin' meds I am on!!!! (see below). It is about priorities! Plain and simple. Ellie, I am infertile due to an infection I had years ago, upon finding that out....we did 3 count them 3 rounds of in vitro fertilazation, and came up with no children, just a huge bill!!!! Honey God blesses you with the most precious thing in the world to you (going by your info) and dont u think they deserve u to be the best that u can be?? And I am so in agreement with Shannon (pnurse) it is a disease...no different than my epilepsy, my colitis, my migraines, etc. But, it is the people that do not understand that dont support you. They think u r just a bi**h! That way they dont have to ATTEMPT to learn what U need, bbecause its over their heads, just like all of us have people like that in r lives. Ellie, u have an illness, u didnt ask for it, but u got it. Please dont say u shouldnt post here..u r just trying to run from the problem, and TRUST ME it will only make it worse. Please think about what we are all telling you, we have no agenda here. Just to help u help yourself. Take care and please think of us.

Be well,

Patti scool


Epilepsy (31 years)  Keppra (300mg x 4 per day), Valium-myoclonic jerks PRN/as neeed 
 
Colitis (5years)  Donnatal, Entocort EC 3mg (3 a day, started 7/14/05, tapering to 2 a day 8/12/05) Probiotic VSL#3 began 8/17/05
 
Infertility (20 years) in vitro fertilazation 3 times with no success/ Just a HUGE bill!!!!
 
Migraines/daily headaches (5 years) Fioricet
 
Bi-Polar (4 ever) Depakote and Effexor 150mg
 
Restless leg syndrome (3 years) Neurontin 300mg 1per day                                                                                                                                           


psychnurse
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 8/23/2005 7:01 AM (GMT -7)   

Oh, honey I am so sorry you are suffering so much.  The one saving grace you have is your husband - thank god for him!  I am blessed with a hubby like yours, it's rare, please think about that daily.

OK, you are a f****** mess!   What the hell is "carelink"?  Did I understand you correctly that you are on 80mg Prozac?  and that's all?  Not even a mood stabilizer?  BPs are NOT to be on SSRI antidepressants!  They cause mania, panic, nervousness and anxiety.  They work opposite on on us.  Besides, the reason you are still depressed is because you have "Prozac poop out".  SSRI ADs only last a few months in most cases, then they quit, have to be raised or switched.  Anyway, it's a non issue.   You have wayyyyyyy more going on than BP, hon, you have had a major trauma in your childhood (studies show almost all of us suffered some type of abuse as children).  You have social anxiety disorder, depression/anxiety, avoidance personality, and OCD.  All these latter ones, except the avoidance, are way common.   But mix them with BP, and you have a monster.  A mood stabilizer will help, with a calming agent like Klonopin, used often in BPs, it works better for us than xanax, ativan, etc.  YOu didn't mention trying lithium, why not?  It's usually the first drug tried, it really does work the best in most cases, and some studies show it also controls depression somewhat in addition to mania.  I know you think depression is your only problem, but it's not.  Your Prozac is aggravating your other problems. 

Disclaimer:  I am not a doctor, these are suggestions you need to discuss with a GOOD pdoc who gives a crap.   Here they are:

Mood stabilizer:  lithium works most effectively for most and is dirt cheap.  Depakote in a SMALL dose at first!  The reason for the zombie feeling is too much to start more than likely, it is not known for zombie feeling when tapered up slowly.  Start low and work up, say 500mg a day, then 1000 mg, etc. Or lithium put you on Neurontin wasn't too up on things, it doesn't work, neither does Geodon. 

Antidepressant:  Lamictal/welbutrin combo or just Lamictal if welbutrin doesn't agree with you is the antidepressio of choice for BPs, and works much better than the SSRI antidepressants everyone else takes.  True, Prozac works on OCD, but if we get all the other under control, you may find it lessens as well.

Antianxiety:  Klonopin as needed, most effective in BPs typically.

Atypical antipsychotic: for sleep and general calming, of course for psychosis if you become manic:  Seroquel is the best, doesn't affect weight, very effective and very adjustable dosage; Abilify is new and also worth a try. 

Most BPs with all these problems (we usually have them all) are on one of each of these.  We usually don't do well with just a stabilizer, it doesn't cover the other problems besides mania, except lithium can help in some cases, but still the Lamictal and/or welbutrin added usually helps immensely.

Mind you, the drug AND the dosage are important.   Don't write off a medication because you experience unpleasant side effect the first day or two.  Call the doc if you do IMMEDIATELY, instead of stopping it and claiming it doesn't work/made you worse.  It may be too much.  You should always start low and work up to avoid freaking out or zombie effect. 

Do you scratch your skin because of the irritability?  Does your skin feel like it's crawling, hair feels like it's standing up?  I had this and did the same thing, I still do once in a while if people touch me when I'm super irritable.  It's a miserable feeling, I know, you just want to jump out of your skin. 

BTW I'm 40 and only decided to get stable (ultimatum from my hubby after dealing with me for 10 years) last year, and it sucked going through an awful depression (crash) for a couple of months, but I can't tell you how worth it is!!!!!!!  This is when most of us say "f*** it, this sucks, I'm not taking meds anymore!"  Being stable is heaven compared to the hell we live in otherwise.  I never experienced it in my first 39 yrs of life and had no idea it could be like this.  Real enjoyment of life, real happiness, not the fake perceived euphoria that is fleeting and then hell again.  Sure, I still have mood swings but they are soooooooo minimal compared to nonmedicated and the unpleasant ones only last a day or two.  Obviously, my hubby is on top of the world, and it's like we just met and are dating, literally.  I'm no longer selfish.  I give, I compromise, I don't have to have everything my way.   I don't try to justify everything.  I'm not a perfect angel, for sure, but sooooooo much better than I ever was.   I thnk most of us are beautiful, sensitive, careing compassionate souls who are lost inside an ugly outer shell because we're sick.  Not to mention the horrible things we do.  I have cheated (once), I ran off with some loser I had only know for 3 weeks (for 12 days, was basically held hostage, long story) and all I wanted was to go home the day I left actually.  I bankrupted us (47K in credit cards in a matter of a few months), and treating my husband like s*** all along, with being nice sometimes in between.  There are more things, of course, but those are the worst.  No more, I wouldn't even CONSIDER doing those things in my right mind; cannot BELIEVE that was ME!  I will regret those things the rest of my days, I think about them daily and cannot forgive myself.  Yet my precious husband stuck by me because he knew I was ill.  I know he's a gift from god, and I treat him like one every day, as if it's our last together. 

Getting better is worth the journey and the search for the right combination (cocktail) of medicines.  Please don't give up.  The key is learning all you can about BP and working WITH your pdoc, even suggesting the meds YOU want to try.  Being in constant contact if something isn't right before it gets full blown, which is then harder and longer to treat.  don't worry about bugging him, you are paying him, he works for YOU.  Even if carelink is some free service, he took an oath to help you.  It's his responsibilty and his JOB.  He gets paid either way. 

I'm glad you found us we are here to help and there are AWESOME people here, like Pats said, Pats, me and Nickie are the most regular people here everyday usually throughot the day.  We know a LOT about it, so please ask any questions you have, OK?  and you can say ANYTHING here about what you have done, what you are experiencing now, etc.  We will help as much as we possibly can. 

Pats, thank you for the kind words about me and Nick, but you also support us and mean the world to us, too! yeah

Love to all,

Shannon

 

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