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charron
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 8/26/2005 11:39 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Everyone!  I posted a few weeks ago about my husband who is bp and you offered some great advice.  We were married the first time in 1972.  My husband was hospitalized in 1973 due to alchoholism.  He was extremely abusive, both mentally and physically to me and his moods would change back and forth from depression to mania to paranoia.  But most of the time, he was a kind and gentle and very loving husband to me.  I noticed that he turned into a different person usually in the Spring and during the Christmas holidays, or when something stressful occurred in the family i.e. the death of his grandma.  He was again hospitalized in 1976; this time he became catatonic and suicidal and I took away a bottle of pills from him.  The doctors diagnosed depression and alcholism again.  The children were born, and I know they suffered when they witnessed him abuse me.   We went to a shelter in 1980 because I couldn't take seeing the man I loved continue this behavior.  We were divorced six years.  (Please don't think this was constant behavior--we had a lot of happy times too--I just got sick of the destructive mood changes.)  He quit drinking in 1982. In the meantime, our daughter had begun using and drinking at 12 and I had taken her everywhere to get some help for her which wasn't working.  He had supervised visitation, and wanted to see the kids.  They demanded a psycological testing be done and he was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder.  He appeared to be doing well and I thought it would do our daughter good to see him as he had quit drinking and it might help her.  We had hardly seen him in 6 years, and when we did he seemed to be doing so well; one thing led to another and we were remarried in 1987.  He wasn't drinking, but began pot smoking.  It was easy for him to get as we are both musicians.  He earned two degrees- one in Social Work and one in Business.  Held jobs until he quit due to his insistance that things had to go all his way.  I worked and kept us financially afloat for years.  He still had the mood swings and while he didn't hit me, he was mentally cruel.  In 2001, he became disabled due to back problems.  His stepfather died, and he became very depressed.  He Visited mind control sites on the computer, and became paranoid.  He took his social security retro check and disappeared spending $3000 driving all over the state and staying at motels.  I was devistated.  He didn't even know me.  He was hospitalized (finally) and put on Respital, Haldol, and later abilify and diagnosed bp.  The drugs caused his blood pressure to go up 50 points, and he had a seizure.  When he was released they put him on ativan.  He was again in the hospital in 2004, and put on a 5150 (I think) hold where he received and injection (court ordered) once a month and he was also in the hospital Oct. 2004.  Before he went into the hospital, he took all the pictures in our apartment down.  He pulled the kitchen table into the middle of the room and took the knobs off of the dressers, insisted all the blinds be opened, and repeated the same phrases over and over.  I love him and it was so frightening not to be able to reach him.  When medication is prescribed, he doesn't take it. He self-medicates with pot.  He was released in the middle of November 2004 and got a psychiatrist to get him off the court ordered commitment in January 2005.  It's like he's two different people.  This June, our daughter who had also been self medicating and has been diagnosed bp came to live with us.  He stopped smoking pot and began exhibiting signs of another episode.  He became very depressed and then manic telling me there was a "new sheriff in town" and he took all the handles off of the desk drawers, and was very verbally abusive to our daughter. When I went to the store July 3, I came back and he was gone.  He eventually wound up in the hospital near his mom's who lives on the other side of the state.  I had reported him as a missing person and the police here are familiar with him as we had gone to the crisis center here to get him some help; I think he ran away again as he is still in denial that he is bp.  He allowed us no access to his condition, but I did tell the doctors of his previous hospitalizations.  His mother told our daughter that "she had the power to bring our family together or tear it apart" which shows how much in denial she is that her son is ill, even though she has seen it through the years.  Anyway, I am in Hell now and very depressed.  He is living near his mother, will hardly talk to me, calls and says he loves me, then says we should part. He said they gave him medication that he can take as needed!  Before he left, I told him that he needs to be on something everyday or else we would get a divorce because the episodes are coming now closer and closer together.  Like Dr. Jeckyll or something.  I love him so much, and here he is and his mother too insinuating it's all my fault.  I don't know if I should file for divorce or what; is this common with bp spouses.  We signed a lease in July and now I am stuck with the whole rent.  Our daughter tried to talk to him as she is on meds, and feels much better, but he doesn't listen.  I feel so bad--like he deserted me and I wonder if he'll ever get the help he needs.  The second marriage was so much better than the first and now all i do is go to work, come home, wait to see if he'll call , and cry.  Please give me some advice.

psychnurse
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 8/27/2005 10:03 AM (GMT -7)   

Charron, I'm sorry you are going through such a rough time.  My opinion is that even tho you love him, there is nothing you can do to make him better.  He has proven that for over 30 years.  Even tho the in between times are good, the bad is unbearable.  He is sick, he won't get himself clean and well and stay that way.   He shows little regard for his family's well being.  Sometimes, you just have to say enough.  You've been married twice already, and nothing has really changed, except maybe the physical violence.  I know this is hard to hear, but really, you and your daughter would be much better off without this constant upheaval and trauma.   You can't even talk to his mother about it!  she's as sick as he is.  You have no support.  Except here, of course! :-)

Yes, he's sick.  But, he knows that and refuses to take any responsibility, instead preferring to put his family through this s**** over and over.  mad You just have to really have a serious talk with YOURSELF about how you want to spend the rest of your life.  If you choose to stay with him, then know this is what to expect and that it won't change.  Talking to him isn't going to help, he's beyond that. 

I do believe he isn't gone for good, he'll be back at some point.  Esp if he is borderline personality.   I think between now and then you need to make preparations for which kind of life you want to lead, with or without him - and make your decision final this time.

I hope you don't think I am being insensitive here, but having the same illness as he does, it doesn't change, it only gets worse with age and it's totally up to the BP if they are going to get well or not - often it has nothing to do with how the loved ones feel

Please keep posting here for support, it's the weekend and some of us are busy, but I'm sure when the others check in and read, they will help you too.

Hang in there the best you can -

Shannon

 


charron
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 8/27/2005 4:21 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks to both of you for replying---I've lost 30 lbs in the past month, cry all the time, and feel like I just want to die. Maybe I've spent so much of my life trying to help him that I don't know how to help myself..I certainly don't want to be with him and watch him turn into a stranger but I love him so much, I really got to be sick myself. Thanks for caring you guys.

Arenace
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 249
   Posted 8/27/2005 4:29 PM (GMT -7)   
I really don't mean to be rude, but maybe you should ask yourself what it is that you love about him.
Bipolar brings new meaning to the "Little Ups And Downs Of Life!!"
 
Sandra


 


Arenace
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 249
   Posted 8/27/2005 4:31 PM (GMT -7)   
I'm sorry, I should probably explain better. Old habit are very hard to break. But, if we really analyze them we are sometimes very surprise at what is straring us right in the face.
Bipolar brings new meaning to the "Little Ups And Downs Of Life!!"
 
Sandra


 


kittycat27
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 438
   Posted 8/28/2005 7:19 AM (GMT -7)   
One comment really, for people who don't seem to understand this disease very well. There is no cure for us, however their is treatment. Sometimes the treatment's side effects make you feel worse. about responsibility, oooohhhhhhhhhhhhh..... that's good. It is in our disease to not fully understand why we say the things we say, sometimes when I am manic I don't even recall what I have said. I do always apologize for my actions after the episode, but that doesn't mean I won't f***** do it again and I take meds. Sometimes I wonder if the people that talk about this disease fuuly comprehends what our mind, body and spirit go through? Anyways, i guess not. I have never used BP as an excuse, but I am in one of my " controllable moods", well then maybe people who are well should leave the room, or go dine with Tom Cruise. Of course this is just my opinion, then again I am not stable or well. Unconditional love ( the type I share with my daughter and mother), is real love. My mother has taken the time to research for me BP, to learn what not to say when I am feeling a certain way and what to say when I need her to say something. Would I want my daughter dating someone with BP, why not what is wrong with me. As far as my mother, gosh she would rather me date no one, because I seem to be better off than most of the men I have dated. One more thing , can someone tell me if I had a choice , do you think I would of chosen myself to be BP? Whatever.My two cents, cause I am BP! :-) Nickie

Arenace
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 249
   Posted 8/28/2005 7:29 AM (GMT -7)   
Nickie, I won't even try to explain myself because I wasn't talking about the BP. I was talking about the lifetime of behaviour in general.
Bipolar brings new meaning to the "Little Ups And Downs Of Life!!"
 
Sandra


 


Arenace
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 249
   Posted 8/28/2005 7:30 AM (GMT -7)   
You know, you're right, I don't belong on this board.
Bipolar brings new meaning to the "Little Ups And Downs Of Life!!"
 
Sandra


 


psychnurse
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 8/28/2005 7:53 AM (GMT -7)   

I have to comment here on what Nickie said, it's so true that in the moment we dont even realize how hurtful or emotionally/verbally abusive we can be, and it can be pretty bad, as you know.  But later, when we have a moment of clarity, we realize what we've done and are mortified and soooooo sorry!   But we can't take back the words that cut to the  bone.  The rage is uncontrollable and we  become this other person that we can't control and are oblivious to at the time.   Like Nick said, NOT trying to make excuses here!   But non BPs will NEVER understand that.  You would have to experience it.  The physical violence is also a propensity in men.  But, I have done it a couple of times, I actually beat the crap out of two men that dared to slap me.  The adrenaline we get is over the top and even skinny little me bloodied and bruised both of them and ended up with not a scratch.    I have destroyed so many things in my house, once I even picked up a vacuum cleaner and threw it into a glass coffee table.  That's how irritable we get, anything can set us off.  Things that wouldn't even bother normal people. 

Yes it is our responsibility to get better, Iwon't say well, because we will never be as level as a normal person, even on meds we still have mood swings more often and severe than non BPs.  It's a constant medication adjustment to stay level.  It's so hard to get us to take medication, because we think we feel good, that's all we know (except the depression part, of course).  So, when we take meds and "crash" we feel like total and complete crap.  We feel dead inside, no emotion, no energy, miserable.  Why would anybody want to go through that.  It can last for weeks or months.  We know, that if we stop the medication, we will be "normal" again.  This is the price we have to pay to be level.  Men have a harder time with it, and often never get better.  It is a choice, either you pay the price for a temporary time to get there, or you don't.  It really depends on how much your family means to you and how much support you get.  Maybe you can understand that a little better than you did, maybe not.

I am again NOT making excuses or putting some guilt trip on you!   I am telling you again, you really should not expect things to change.  I can almost guarantee he is a lost cause.  And YOU are paying the price, not him.  Look what's happened.  You're mentally and physically sick.  Is that fair for a person who has done nothing but love, support and care for another person that consciousy chooses to cause her nothing but misery?  I have to agree with Sandra, what is it that you love about him?  Do you maybe confuse true love with co dependence.  I personally do not believe you can love someone who causes you nothing but pain and has for 30 years.  I recommend you get counseling to help you to think clearly, you are very confused, as I would expect anyone to be who has endured the kind of emotional abuse that you have.  It is NOT YOUR FAULT!  For your own sake, you need to leave him.  I'm not telling you what you should do, just what I know of BPs in general and the abusive relationship syndrome.  Google abusive relationship syndrome, there are myriads of studies, support and recommendations for getting out of it and healing your psyche.

Good luck to you, sweetie, I really feel for you.


psychnurse
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 8/28/2005 7:58 AM (GMT -7)   

WTF Sandra!  mad Are you crazy!  (Rhetorical question, of course, lol)

Where the f*** did you get that idea?  Who said that that they're right!  I must have been absent that day!

You have every right to be here and speak your mind!  i do believe this lady wrote in here for opinions and perspective from actual bipolars!  I think you're having a downswing day from lack of sleep, hon, that's what happens.  You need to shut out the world for a while and go to sleep your not thinking straight.   Go to bed! yeah

I Love you dearly, hon

Shan


kittycat27
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 438
   Posted 8/28/2005 8:04 AM (GMT -7)   
Listen instead of taking things so personal you might start by askng me either by e-mail, or plainly doing as you did, whatever, again my comment was not directed toward you and it seems to be that this is the second time you have misinterpted what I said or who it was meant for . Usually I will apologize, but I am not going to . I have never told anyone they didn't belong here , especiallly since this is a great support group. So please do not put words in my mouth. If you choose to leave I have no control of over your decision. Seems strange. We are all adults here entitled to our own opininon, I will not refrain from saying anything, because normally everything I say on this board is either informative or heart felt. I am getting tired of some of the posts I read that I interpret as rude. i never mention any names nor would I include you in that category. People that don't have BIPOLAR wil never understand BIPOLAR. It is up to the person to either get help and educate themselves with BP as much as they can or remember why they first loved the person with BP. However a BIPOlAR person has responsibilities also, but sometimes are definition of the word might be different. If I am not allowed as well to in turn type my opinion as everyone does, then for the sake of my self respect I will leave. i would really hate  to think that I have caused someone else to leave but I will not be a target either. I have been on this board for awhile also, I never am rude to anyone! I hope everyone has a wonderful day, as mine will start off the same and finish differently. Thanks for allowing me to write at this forum. I will now move on to something else. To the friends I have made here, you have my e-mail as well. Sincerely , Nickie. Patti , I really hope you are okay, but I think if I recall right, you have family members in town. Good for you sweetie, and I hope they are helping you and you all are enjoying yourself. This is Nickie signing off. Oh one more thing , did you ever hear of a button called IGNORE, usually I hit that button when i don't want to read someone's post that I may not care for. That's my 2 cents, clearly i am not well.................

charron
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 8/28/2005 9:26 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks to all for trying to help me. You really nailed it Shannon. You asked what I loved about him. We were 19 when we met; he was my first. We are both very intellegent and I can actually talk to him about anything and he get's it, We are musicians and I play bass and he plays drums and we crank out such a heavy bottom and are very tight. We both have a sense of humor. He is a wonderful person when he is well and that's why I wrote this post--to try to understand how such a great love can go so very wrong. I can't imagine myself with anyone else, but I can write and still play music because when I'm into that, I only think about the music and nothing else. I agree that I have to get some help for myself-- and deep down I know that all of you are right. I just feel like I've been torn in half. You helped me to see how it must be for him. Oh denial ---where is thy sting?

charron
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 8/28/2005 9:38 AM (GMT -7)   
Also Nickie---PLEASE don't leave....You are a very cool person and have helped me a lot! This board needs you, and I would be sad if you did.

Arenace
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 249
   Posted 8/29/2005 5:42 AM (GMT -7)   
Charron,
Part of what happened here in your post is what happens when you have a BP that has gone out of control. That was me. I had some outside stressers and I lost it, and those around me suffered. Nickie most especially. I saw things in Nickie's posts that weren't even there!! A little background on my meltdown if you wish, if not skip this part. My son, who is also BP but in denial and not on meds took off and I didn't know where he was or what he was doing for days. Then he called and said he would be home and then days went by and nothing again. I was a little beside myself to say the least. I thought I was handling it. I wasn't. I should have said something here. I didn't. Only one person knew, so other than that dear friend I didn't have the support I needed to get through it and I didn't do very well. When I posted here for you I was honestly only trying to help and so was Nickie. She is amazing. And I do hope she knows I still feel that way. Anyway I am better, and I did write something to my friend Shannon today, who did know what was going on, about what this disease feels like on the upswing and on the downswing. It is just a short note to her. But points out that I really didn't even recognize that myself that I was in trouble, and I watch me like a hawk!! I hope this helps you have a better understanding of what we feel. I hope that everything works out for you exactly as you want it to.

I think I have figured out what I hate most about the disease now. I don't hate the recognized mania once you get there. Even if I didn't recognize it at the time, the symptoms of the mania are horrid and destructive like a hurricane gone completely out of control. I don't even hate the depression once you get there. And though you'd have to be a block of ice not to recognize that at least you know you've turned to a lump of stone that isn't going anywhere for a while. No, what I hate the most are the trips to these places. Ah, Shannon my friend these times are the disease personified. These are the times when we say ugly things, do ugly things and then look at you and say "What? I didn't do/say anything!" and mean it!!! These are the times when we slay our friends and loved ones run off with the darn dragons!!!

My Best To You
Bipolar brings new meaning to the "Little Ups And Downs Of Life!!"
 
Sandra


 


Arenace
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2005
Total Posts : 249
   Posted 8/29/2005 6:08 AM (GMT -7)   
Oh Charron, I did want to add that what I experience/experienced is not what everyone experiences. Each of us has our own unique presentation. Maybe that is what makes it so hard for others to understand? Just guessing. Again I do wish nothing but the best for you.
Bipolar brings new meaning to the "Little Ups And Downs Of Life!!"
 
Sandra


 


charron
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 8/29/2005 7:18 AM (GMT -7)   
I am so lucky to have found all of you. Noone else could understand or offer the advice that you do. You understand how it feels, Sandra, to wonder where you're loved one is and if they're all right. One thing I have to do is move because everywhere I go in the apartment, I remember both the good times and the bad. I sleep in our bed alone. I look at a birthday card he gave me last year --"Happy Birthday to the person I will love my whole life" etc. I tend to focus on the fun we had together instead of the way I had to carefully step over all the eggshells. He called me two weeks ago and said he was coming here to talk things over. I made everything nice, and was looking forward to seeing him. He said he would be here at noon, but called at 12:30 to tell me he wasn't coming. Maybe I should just not accept any more calls, help my daughter (which I am doing anyway, despite all of this) and file for divorce. He moved out of his mom's apartment and got his own place, but I don't have his address or phone number. Probably another control issue. Again, Thank You All and take care......

psychnurse
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 807
   Posted 8/29/2005 7:51 AM (GMT -7)   

Charron, I know how hard it is to deal with, i really feel for you, hon.  You'll be in my thoughts.  Good luck with all of it. 

Shannon

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