Father with big polar son, a parents point of view, SO FRUSTRATING.

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RanMan
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 668
   Posted 12/1/2016 11:49 AM (GMT -6)   
My son was dx'd with BP when he was 12 yrs old.
He's now 30 yrs old and living with his girlfriend.
But what I find MOST frustrating is when he has an episode (manic) he gets into trouble with the law and usually ends up either in jail (bc the police aren't aware of his current mental state) and we're always bailing him out of jail , or he ends up in
the hospital.

PROBLEM: He is always discharged bc the doctors say "he's not posing a threat to himself or others".
He's torn the family apart and ruined ALL family occassions BUT YET THE HOSPITAL AND DOCTORS SAY HE POSES NO THREAT, but bc of his age, we can't make medical decisions on his behalf.
HE'S NOT WELL ENOUGH TO MAKE HIS OWN MEDICAL DECISIONS.
He refuses to seek help for himself.

Now he's constantly putting down his family like saying things like "You're not my real father,"and I'm a f-----g a--h--- or his mother is a bi--- and his sister is a ---------- and he's lost all his friends bc of his constant rapping and non stop talking.(and talking to himself non stop)

When he's in this state of mind (constantly) he gets "creative" and then gets himself into trouble.
There seems to be no help out there for adults, just kids.

Any suggestions?

Randy
Diagnosed with Epilepsy & Ulcerative Colitis.
Current Medications: Diantin 275mg, Pheonobarb 150mg, Asocol 3,000 mg.

Tim Tam
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2016
Total Posts : 821
   Posted 12/1/2016 1:43 PM (GMT -6)   
I think it's good that you are trying to solve this.

It's also good that the caregiver is not the patient, it's someone else who is not sick. There are many cases where there are no caring parents, or others, who are trying to help the person who is in trouble.

It's difficult being both the patient and the caregiver, when your mind is sick and its difficult to make a decision. So separating this is very good.

While problems are generally bad, the chances of solving them can be good, which is why it's important to have a positive attitude going into a problem that it can be solved. That very much increases the chances that it will be solve before the problem is even addressed.

It may not be solve tomorrow on the first try, but a continuing positive of attitude through the days and months keeps the door open for days or months or more that it will be solved or improved.

If it's not solved, we've still done our best, and that's a victory in itself. One problem at a time, and be positive about that problem.

I'm a fine one to be talking about improving father and son relationships, when as a bi-polar myself, I've been thinking for the last few weeks/months I am never going to allow my 39-year-old son to work on any of my projects again such as cutting the grass.

He really comes after me, he really is pleasant until I bring up one of my problems that I could use some help with, and then he jumps. "You're the problem," he will assure me about a neighbor he's never even met, and there goes my support system for a person living alone.

So, I know.

I also know from the standpoint of being the patient when my manic-depression broke at age about 28. I had lost a job, which as a manic-depressive I never could hold. Not having a job meant no social life, for most of those contacts were through my work.

I was probably manic while around a lot of people at work, mostly talking and not doing enough work, probably. As soon as I lost a job, I was taken away from that social environment and thrown into an isolated situation in my apartment.

My confidence would have very quickly gone to zero. My mania would have turned to neutral, then in another day or two into slight depression, then deeper in a few more and then very depressed within a week or two of losing the job.

I was both the patient and the caregiver. Uh, oh. As the patient who had the final say, like your son, I didn't make the right choices there, either. I would pace around my apartment, depressed, mind going in circles. My mother would be telling me on the phone to get some psy. help, I'm going to assume, and I would probably be rejecting that.

I had to hit bottom before getting help looked like a good idea. After about a month of depression, my mind couldn't hold the untreated weight of that any longer, and I had a nervous breakdown.

It scared the daylights out of me. I thought I wasn't going to recover. I was afraid I wasn't going to get any help in time.

Before I crashed, I was hollering at my mother for 2 days, telling her all my problems were her fault, because she didn't raise me right, but I think you've heard that story before. Yeah, that was me, too.

As for your son, I don't know. He's me, many years ago, and I was beyond help. He may have to crash like I did. I may have to splatter all over the ground, when treatment might look good to him. Assuming he recovers from splattering.

He's like me in that until crash occurs he's thinks he's doing great. It's also difficult for him in this manic or depressed state of mind for him to make a decision.

When he's manic, he just wants to keep going and going. When he's depressed, he's too depressed to make a decision. When he's well, in the middle, or hypo (just a little bit) manic he doesn't need to make a decision.

He might not realize he changing every few hours or days, he thinks it's the situation that changing. That it's people or events that are making him mad.

----------------------------------------

you say diagnosed at BP at 12. Did they give him any medicine, has he ever been on medicine? I'm on Lithium and Mirtazapine anti-depressant, and the Lithium from the first made me feel like the air was coming out of a too tight balloon. I didn't know I was uptight for so many years.

He's never been on Lithium, or anything?

You say: "But what I find MOST frustrating is when he has an episode (manic) he gets into trouble with the law and usually ends up either in jail (bc the police aren't aware of his current mental state) and we're always bailing him out of jail , or he ends up in
the hospital."

When he ends up in the hospital, are they trying to get into to take Lithium, or something?

You say, "PROBLEM: He is always discharged bc the doctors say "he's not posing a threat to himself or others".

Well, they probably have to discharge him, but you don't have to keep bailing him out. I think I might say, "Well, you're not going to take Lithium or whatever. Well, I'm not going to bail you out next time. You can either take the Lithium now, or next time, you're on your own.

"Three hots and a cot, baby," as my son used to say about his three nights in jail. He was acting bad for months or more, and landed in jail, and a friend called one night saying he was in the pokey, and I never did tell his asleep mother who would have bailed him out that first night, and that 3 days in jail did him more good than anything I ever did. It scared him straight.

Oh, what do they call it, it's got a name, "Tough Love," OK.

It's called, what, intervention, that's what it is. It's called, family sticking together and nobody bailing him out. And informing him of that before the next episode. That's your decision, but I considered my decision to keep my son in jail another two nights the best parental decision I ever made.

You say, "He's torn the family apart and ruined ALL family occasions," and "Now he's constantly putting down his family like saying things like "You're not my real father,"and I'm a f-----g a--h--- or his mother is a bi--- and his sister is a ---------- and he's lost all his friends bc of his constant rapping and non stop talking.(and talking to himself non stop)"

That might be worth a week in jail right there. OK, OK, OK, this is my feeling as a manic-depressive and as a parent, this is my feeling: "No more bail. Make my day."


You say, "There seems to be no help out there for adults, just kids."

Yeah, there's help out there for adults. It's called jail.

And another good thing, the state pays for it. It's free.

You say, "When he's in this state of mind (constantly) he gets "creative" and then gets himself into trouble."

I'm manic-depressive and I can get creative, but with Lithium, I'm no less creative. So it's not like he's going to be losing anything.

You say, "Any suggestions?"

Yeah, as my son could tell you if his sons grow up and start misbehaving: "Three hots and a cot."

Post Edited (Tim Tam) : 12/1/2016 1:42:59 PM (GMT-7)


straydog
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 14320
   Posted 12/1/2016 10:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello Randy. I normally do not post in this forum but do read in many of the forums here at Healing Well. I felt compelled to post to you about your son. My brother went through this very same thing with his daughter who is now 33 years old. She was dx'd bipolar in her early teens. She lived with her mother & the situation there became impossible for her mother to continue to allow her to live with her.

My brother brought her here to live with him & his wife. It was not an easy move at all. He got her medical care which she very much resented. She would lie & say she took her medicine when she hadn't. In her mind she had no problem it was everyone else that had problems. Every situation she got into was always someone else's fault. To this day she always blames someone else. Not once has she ever owned up to anything. After years of the financial burden, being put in jail so many times my brother finally said I am done. She literally burned out both of her parents.

Her only option 1 year ago was her grandfather felt sorry for her & he let her move in with him. He is 84 years old & the stress of having her there was far more than he was equipped to deal with. She was picked up & put in jail & spent nearly 3 months in 2 different jails. When she got out of jail he did not let her return to his home. Apparently a church group that visits the jails took her in. This will not last long either.

Like your son, she does not think she has anything wrong with her & has refused all medical care. Her immediate family always felt like they were riding on a run away roller coaster. This took a huge toll on everyone. She has no friends, hasn't in years. Anyone that has tried to be a friend she messed it up.

Even when the hospital felt she was may do self harm they would release her in 3 days. She was very smart & manipulative, a real professional. There was no way she would be considered incompetent. This tied their hands. I have lost count how many times she has been down & out or has hit bottom.

Until your son decides to get help there is little you can do for him. You can support him emotionally as best as you can. Your hands are tied. However, if you get to the point that you cannot take it anymore, do not beat yourself up if you have to walk away. You will not be the first parent to do this or the last. It is important that you take care of yourself too. As a parent it is easy to get lost when our kids have problems such as this.

Just know that you & your family are not alone. Take care.
Susie
Moderator in Chronic Pain & Psoriasis Forums

theHTreturns...
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 19377
   Posted 12/2/2016 2:18 AM (GMT -6)   
jail is not the answer.............i know the answer, but sadly, governments do not invest in those with a mental illness, and if they did, then outcomes would certainly be different. this view is of a global perspective. families just kick people out, and onto the street, i was one of these too difficult people, the too hard basket. yes the person needs to ask for help, agree, but the alienation can be a real problem down the track. was homeless for three plus years. it was not my fault i was given a mental illness. i was forgotten........no longer the family problem. please find somewhere for the person to go first, because trust me the individual will just wander the streets.

suggestions:

find out about ya mental health team and what services are available to you and son.

respite services. yes, mental health respite, we have them. (in australia)

since he has been in and out of jail look for things like community care units. staffed homes for individuals whom need longer term psych care. not sure what you call em wherever ya from. access your local mental health ombudsman or centre, as they will give ya a tonne of info. i had to fight the system with 2 of my bro's, i am a consumer consultant, so they could not mess with me. document everything. ask the hospital for info, a copy of files and see if ya can get ya son case managed. this is what he needs. bi-polar is a ****** of a disease, esp when rapid cycling. i am highly functioning and do advocacy for the hosp and university. people do get better. the gov are lazy expletives, they don't care. turn the tables on these expletives, as it is your son who truely suffer in the end.
THE HAPPY TURTLE.

A QUOTE FROM THE HAPPY TURTLE THAT REFLECTS ME.

"COMPLEXITY IS MY WAY OF EXPRESSING MY NEEDS IN A MANNER THAT IS NEITHER DESTRUCTIVE, NOR NEGATIVE"
'

Post Edited (THE HAPPY TURTLE) : 12/2/2016 1:36:05 AM (GMT-7)


UserANONYMOUS
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 4321
   Posted 12/3/2016 6:01 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi RanMan,

I am sorry for what you and your family are going through.
Your son must be willing to get help and seek treatment. If not, there isn't much you or your family can do. From reading you post, you are there for him in every way you can.

I can only suggest you talk to him when he seems stable about seeking help and see if he will agree to it on his own.

Please know that we are here for you.

UA
Moderator - Bipolar

Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder.
Chronic Pain - Cervical Kyphosis, Cervical Spondylosis, Thoracic Scoliosis.

RanMan
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 668
   Posted 12/3/2016 6:22 PM (GMT -6)   
UA

The MAIN problem is HE REFUSES TO SEEK HELP b/c he doesn't believe he has a problem. Meanwhile, he has destroyed our family, and being caring parents, it's hard to disown your child. (easy to say though)

Randy
Diagnosed with Epilepsy & Ulcerative Colitis.
Current Medications: Diantin 275mg, Pheonobarb 150mg, Asocol 3,000 mg.

theHTreturns...
Elite Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 19377
   Posted 12/4/2016 2:26 AM (GMT -6)   
the family it should be written. stating our says you have disowned him.
THE HAPPY TURTLE.

A QUOTE FROM THE HAPPY TURTLE THAT REFLECTS ME.

"COMPLEXITY IS MY WAY OF EXPRESSING MY NEEDS IN A MANNER THAT IS NEITHER DESTRUCTIVE, NOR NEGATIVE"
'

UserANONYMOUS
Forum Moderator


Date Joined May 2011
Total Posts : 4321
   Posted 12/5/2016 12:27 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Randy,

If he is not willing to accept help, there is not much you can do. One must accept that they need help and be willing to accept help.

It is hard to disown a child no matter what. I suggest you give him some time, and you take care of yourself for a change and your other family members.

UA
Moderator - Bipolar

Depression, Borderline Personality Disorder.
Chronic Pain - Cervical Kyphosis, Cervical Spondylosis, Thoracic Scoliosis.

clo2014
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2015
Total Posts : 517
   Posted 1/31/2017 9:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Randy,

I read your post and it broke my heart. You have done everything you can do. There is a time when you have to consider yourself and other family members. Individuals with mental health issues that refuse to take medication and seek all venues of assistance to improve are holding their loved ones hostage...and they do not realize it. They don't even know they are ill. The system in the U.S.A. does not allow others the ability to ensure that their loved one are obtaining the assistance required.

Sometimes the best thing you can do for your safety and mental wellbeing is to take a step back. How you do that, and how much distance you need is up to you.

I wish you the best because you are in a very difficult situation. No matter what you do you will always wonder "what if"; that's what good parents do...

Clo
06/12-07/14 symptoms start, no diagnosis.12/14 diagnosed UC & diverticulitis. 01/15 hosp- fistulas, DX changed to Crohns, 02/15 developed new skin rashes, eye problems and painful joints 06/15 Hosp.2x again.. new specialist.Said was worse case he's seen. 7/16 hosp 5mm Stricture stricturplasty to 15 mm.09/16 colostomy. Meds: Remicade, methtrexate, prednison,folic acid, vit D, calcium, pro biotic,
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