I am out of my witts with my son

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Woodlet
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 9/12/2007 10:45 AM (GMT -7)   
I hope someone can help me in this forum as I am out of my witts with my son.
He is 36 years old and has just told me he is bipolar and schizophrenic. I am having a terrible time believing him. He has lied to me so many times in the past. He gets illness' and issues when he gets into trouble.

He was in a fight and went to jail and then he told them that he was hearing voices and they sent him to a Dr. and he said he has these illness, and of course they couldnt charge him because they said he wasnt able to control himself because of the illness.

He has had trouble since he was about 5 years old, at school and just bad behaviour problems. I was a working mom so had to have him stay with my parents during the week for day care with his sister. He drove my mother crazy and after about 5 years of this he had to come and live with me and it got worse. He went to special behaviour schools and had therapy during this time. Never any meds.

He has come back into my life at a time when I have just lost my beloved Mother and my dad is alone. He went to visit him and says he wants to spend time with him.

He has to get out of his place of residence (other grandmothers house) because of his behaviour and lack of job. I have told him due to the recent loss of my my mom that he could not live with him because it would be too much for my father (80).

He says he understands but I am not sure of that.

I would like to get a report from the Dr. that diagnosed him if that is possible, does anyone know if this is possible.

I feel terrible about feeling this because of course I love my son, but I dont know if I can take this stuff all of the time.

He takes advantage of my love until I get wise and tell him no more. How many more times do I take this and if he is sick where can I go to get help to help him.

Should I tell my son of my dis-belief? I want to be honest with him as I always have been and most times he doesnt like my honesty. He says he does but then doesnt bother with me for years after. Help help help


I added a title to your post

Post Edited By Moderator (olivia of course) : 9/12/2007 1:22:27 PM (GMT-6)


olivia of course
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Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 1523
   Posted 9/12/2007 12:26 PM (GMT -7)   
Woodlet,

Welcome to the HW family, I am glad you found us. I hope you get the support your are seeking here.

I am sorry you are dealing with a tough situation. I don't know what to tell you, from what you wrote it is clear that your son has behavioral problems. Even with a Dr's diagnosis it can be really hard to say if your son is bipolar and schizophrenic. Is he taking medications/going to therapy to deal with his aggression? It is not to say he doesn't have the illness, but his track records are not good. I hope you things get better soon.
Olivia
Moderator, Bipolar
 
Dx:  Bipolar 1, Anxiety-Panic Disorder
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jerseycherries
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 178
   Posted 9/12/2007 12:37 PM (GMT -7)   
you could try and see if he would let you go to the doctor with him. tell him you have questions for the doctor to better understand these illnesses. then you could hear first hand what exactly is going on with him. and like olivia asked is he on meds for these conditions? thats really the best advice i can give. i seriously doubt that a call to the doctor will get you far because of all the hippa laws now. but thats another way to try i guess. i wish you luck in this.
I have bipolar disorder, panic attacks w/agoraphobia, social anxiety, diabetes, asthma, and high blood pressure.
 
~ Life is short but I am not. ~


Woodlet
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 9/12/2007 12:50 PM (GMT -7)   
Thank you so so much for your speedy reply on my issues. He did mention lots of drugs he is on. The only one I recognized was adivan. The others he was so fast telling me that I didnt get the names of.
I will take your advice and ask to see his Dr. ( I also thought of that)
I would assume that he has this info on paper from his Dr. because that is what got him off of his charges in court.
I am so glad I found this site and will continue to monitor to get a better understanding of this illness.
Thank you again.
I am also sorry for your troubles and hope all the best for you all in the future.
Pamela

Woodlet
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 9/12/2007 12:53 PM (GMT -7)   
Thank you Olivia for adding a title to my post, after I entered it I realized I didnt. New to this obviously.
Thanks again
I am going to call my son now to ask if he is willing to let me talk to the Dr. and will come back here to discuss his answer.

Woodlet
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 9/12/2007 2:19 PM (GMT -7)   
I just got off of the phone with my son and he now says he doesnt have schizophrenia, but is bipolar. His meds are paxil and adivan. I am Canadian so they may be called something different in the U.S. I am not sure.
I dont know how a Dr. could say that he is Schizo and then say error it is a mood disorder of some sort and then call it bipolar.
Any suggestions for me.
He only told me this info when I asked what meds he was on. Should I believe any of this. I feel terrible not believing what he says but it is so so hard for me to trust him that is.
He said he wanted to come and visit me and I said not this week I needed to get my bearings about him back in my life.
He questioned that and I told him that I have trusted him so much in the past and he has let me down and I am not going to do that to myself this time.
I want a relationship with him but it has to be on my terms this time.
He says what he thinks I want to hear and I told him that I want to take things slow. He said he understood and was sorry for all the past stuff, but he has said that to me so many times before.
Anyone have any suggestions?

loving frustrated wife
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted 9/12/2007 3:41 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Woodlet, here is my suggestion. Regardless of what your son says, stick to what YOU have said and REALLY mean it; that any relationship you are going to have with him will be on your terms or not at all. Then, tell him, “you are willing to support his wellness, and while you are NOT ready for him to come visit you, you want to go to his next doctor’s appointment with him. As his mother you have concerns for him, and want to learn directly from the doctor about his "illnesses" and how best you can help and support him in his wellness. That this is not negotiable; which is a result of a very long history of lies and empty apologies.” If he is really on the road to recovery and being responsible about all this, then he will understand that. If not, you will chuck it up to another attempted masterful manipulation.

Just so you know where I am coming from, I am the wife to a BP, and the mother of one as well. Also, I grew up in the same house from the time I was 5 with a step-brother who was 6, that was a Manic-depressive, schizophrenic, schizoid with paranoia and drug problems (his issues started revealing from the time he was 12). I saw what my parents did through his life that worked, and what mistakes they made. It wasn't until they stopped protecting him that he began to face what was wrong with him, and with a judge forcing the issue, began to stabilize and get some real help. He had a lot to face, and he found the only way he could live with himself was at a special facility/convalescence home type of thing until he passed away at 40 from his heart giving out after all the years of drug abuse on top of his regular meds. But believe it or not, it was some of his most genuine and happy times. He felt safe with himself.

Anyway, my best to you to stay strong. If your son is really serious about all of this, and ready to own his past and get the help he needs for his present and future, then your participation will be welcomed and understood. LFW

Woodlet
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 9/12/2007 5:57 PM (GMT -7)   
Dear LFW, how do you do it, meaning how do YOU stay sane. You are one amazing person I would think that you can keep your head on straight.
I am so confused, I dont want to let him down but at the same time it will drive me around the bend.
I agree I am going to call his Dr. in the morning and ask to set up a meeting to find out what is going on and how can I help.
Another thing my son said to me is that his Dr. told him NOT to get a job right now, but since he has great computer skills maybe he could do some volunteer work????? I said "Oh I see, is your Dr. going to pay your rent and bills? He said "that I shouldnt go get a job because of my anger and stuff." What Dr. in his right mind would suggest someone not work and if they did I would think they would put him in a hospital until he was ready to work. I have heard of plenty of people with bipolar leading productive work lives. So I am not sure what the deal is. He said something about until the meds kick in. Is paxil and adivan the average drugs for bipolar or does each person differ.
I am going to call the Dr. in the morning, this is driving me nuts.
Thank you all for helping me sort this awful mess out. I truly appreciate all the help and wishes.

loving frustrated wife
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted 9/12/2007 8:41 PM (GMT -7)   
I think that the doctor, since your son is an adult, will not speak directly to you unless your son signs permission for him to do so. Otherwise you will need to go TO the appointment with your son the next time he goes, and you will need to keep up the "no visit" boundary until that time. Secondly, some meds do take time to kick in, but I am NO expert on all the different ones. I know what my H & S take, but don't know much about other stuff. There are an abundant amount of other ones. As to the not working...if your son thinks he can "keep it together on a day to day basis" then he should at least be doing daily temp work with data entry or such. There are plenty of temp agencies for the very computer literate he could work through if he can't hold a consistent job. But, in the end, as you already know, you can't force people to do things at his age. He is going to do what he does. So, until you have the 'real' scoop...my advice, stand clear. And if he can't pay his rent and is evicted...he'll have to deal with that. He is a grown man. Time he should act like a responsible one in the world - ill or not - plenty do. Sorry if that sounds too tough, but if this is the story he wants to tell you, he'll have to be responsible for the outcome until he takes you to see his doctor, or gives you written permission to speak with him and you are successful in doing so. My thoughts anyway. As to how I don't go crazy...I have had A LOT of therapy and saw what my brother went through and remember it well, and I have good support around me. Hope this helps. LFW

Woodlet
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 9/13/2007 5:33 AM (GMT -7)   
I spoke with a friend about this and they agree with you about getting all the info first.
I already mentioned that I spoke with my son last night and that is when he told me they make a mistake about his illness and it is bipolar just. I told him my dad was coming to see me today and he said he would come up with him and I told him no. He questioned that and I told him that it was my step daughters birthday and I didnt want to cloud that. He said he didnt understand and I told him that since I hadnt seen him in a year that it should only be about her today and not about him and I couldnt just ignore him and his issues when he was around. He took abit to understand but he agreed to wait. I told him that he could come up next week but I am not sure that is going to happen because of my research and my talks here.
I am going to call his doctor today and try to find something out.
This is the doctor that told him that my mother was dying, so I figure since he broke her confidence he shouldnt have any problem talking to me about this. Hopefully. I plan to do most of the talking anyway.
This is the doctor that was my grandmothers, mothers, and mine and my childrens (yes he is 78) lol
So he knows my family inside and out. He will suggest what I do anyway. But I do plan to ask him to make an appt with his therapist to help me figure this out.
Another thing, my mother left us some money when she passed away and since she had not seen him in over 15 years did not include him in this inheritance. My father passed out the money and said that I should give him some and has told him that I have something for him. I do not want to give him this money at all. I know it will go to booze and soft drugs. I just know it. He will wine and dine himself and not put it away as he has told me he is broke and in debt. I plan to tell my father today that I would be willing to give him a weekly allowance but not the whole amount. I wish my dad hadnt said anything to him about this.
My son mentioned to me that my dad said I had something to give him and I told him I dont know what he is talking about, he mentioned it again and I said I still dont know what my dad was talking about. And I am going to leave it at that.
Anyway, thanks for your support it is so so much appreciated.
Everytime I post a message I think of something else I wanted to say therefore I have numerous posts I hope I am not being a pest here.
Thanks again

loving frustrated wife
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted 9/13/2007 6:57 PM (GMT -7)   
Not a pest at all, we all need support here and that is what the site is for. Now, as to the money issue...set up a trust to be given to him through a executor, not you, that will pay his rent for him with it monthly. This way it is serving him, but he can't squander it OR get his hands on it. Only with your written approval can the rule of the trust be changed...type of thing. Then you honor your father’s wishes, but you also protect your son from what he would do with it. Just some suggestions and it would ALL have to be legal and through an attorney. Good luck. STAND STRONG. Tough love and all that! Remember, you do him NO favors by not saying what you mean, or meaning what you say. LFW

Woodlet
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 9/13/2007 7:34 PM (GMT -7)   
You read my mind.
My father came up for supper. We talked about my son and I printed out our chats and told him to read them to get a better idea of what is going on. He really appreciated the information.
He said that I am his mother and I can decide what to do with the money and his situation. He supports any decision I make. That was really appreciated by me.
I am thinking of talking to my son about what debt he is in, or is he paying his other grandparents rent or is he behind in rent and I will take care of that. But he has to pay for anything he needs other than his living accomodation.
It makes me nervous because I am not sure that is a good idea either.
Maybe I should tell him if he gets a job even part time I will help with the rent. I dont know.
But I do know that you all have been the best support to me and I really appreciate all your help and advice.
Thank you very much
pam

loving frustrated wife
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted 9/14/2007 1:23 AM (GMT -7)   
Okay, forgive me, but I need to be clear about something I said...IMO...I STRONGLY urge you to NOT be the one financially connected to him. If you want him to have some money from your mom’s estate to ensure his rent (as an example) is paid so that you know you are ensuring at least a roof over his head…that is fine, then put the money in a trust account, that will be drawn up by an attorney...NOT YOU. It will be the attorney who will act as the executor over this money. Now an executor will make all decisions on behalf of your son regarding the money...NOT YOU. YOU would lay out the RULES of the trust and then the attorney would "execute" it based on those rules....i.e. this money is a trust account for - son's name -. The parameters of the trust are that this money shall be paid directly to any landlord, mortgage company, or housing entity on behalf of - son's name -. NO monies may be given directly to - son's name - from this trust. The express purpose of this trust is to supply a stable source of financial assurance that this housing expense will be covered for said person for the duration of trust. This trust can not be used for a down payment to purchase a property, pay any other bills, debts blah..blah...blah. This way YOU are no longer involved. He would then need to be dealing with the ATTORNEY about the money and YOU are left out of being anything but his mother to whatever level you feel is comfortable with you after your history with him. No, to answer your question...I am NOT an attorney myself. But, I did help draft a trust account with my father in law, with an attorney, for my brother in law in the event of his passing (which happened two years ago) since my husband’s brother is severely afflicted with adult ADD. He has no concept of money and there was concern that his portion of the estate would be lost because of poor management…in the end, there wasn’t much there anyway, but what he got will at least be a little security set aside for a retirement account. It is what his dad worried about for him the most. So, he arranged in his will that my BIL’s portion of the estate be placed in this trust, with his defined rules, to protect him even a little. I URGE you to say nothing about the money until setting something like this up vs. you being involved with making deals with him about this or that regarding debt, expenses…etc. Otherwise, you are completely setting yourself up to be FULLY manipulated, threatened, robbed...etc…whatever it might take from him to get what he wants from you. And then that "cycle" you mentioned to start with is welcomed back in your life. You must start thinking a new way here. Besides, it will NEVER be enough no matter what you give if you’re involved, you already know that from experience. Consult a very trustworthy attorney (get references, etc.) before you tell your son anything about this. No matter what deal he would make with you...about anything…from experience, you already know he won't, or can't, stick with. If one day he proves he has become stable with longevity connected to it and is fully responsible and is a genuinely changed person…then as the person who set up the trust, you may release it all to him, your may change the rules…whatever. My dear the choice is yours from here about what you choose. I do wish you wisdom to the situation to choose well – only you will know what that is. LFW

Woodlet
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 8
   Posted 9/14/2007 5:33 AM (GMT -7)   
I will take your advice and contact my lawyer about this. You are right I must take myself out of the equation. I will tell him (a lie) that his grandmother set this up and that she wanted it this way. That also takes me out of the line of fire.
He told me that he had gone to see my father and they had a good time, he didnt mention that my dad had to drive him around to 2 auto pounds to pick his car up the other day. He kept mentioning that it would cost him 180.00 to get it out. My dad said that was too bad. I asked him to be truthful to me that he did not pay this and he said honestly he didnt pay it. So I wonder where my son got this money when he told me we was broke. He also told me that he didnt have proper insurance on the vehicle and then drove it home. I guess he just took a chance on it, I dont know. I am going to confront him on this, but I am sure he will duh about it.
I have to go out of town for a few days to work, so I am out of the loop with him for a bit. SIGH!
My father thought maybe he shouldnt see him and I told him that he should try a relationship with him, but under no circumstances give him cash. He promised and I believe that he will stick to his guns.
I am going to call my son and tell him that he had better get another doctor because a doctor that tells someone not to work worries me. How does one survive if you have no income unless he has managed to get social assisstance and in Canada single people have a very difficult time getting cash from the government and even if they do it is so small you can only eat on this money. He is living with his fathers mother right now, so they can deal with that.
Thank you for your help in providing me with strength to stick to my guns.
Have a great weekend and will be back on Tuesday.
Pam

loving frustrated wife
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted 9/14/2007 9:21 AM (GMT -7)   
Pam, while I in no way think telling lies is a good thing, in this case bending the truth protects both you and your father from any harassment or nagging on this issue he may send your way. Make sure the attorney who is going to handle this is on board with this story to protect ALL parties involved. You know, if he is living someplace no rent is required, then the money sits in trust until the day he would need it for such and is untouchable on his part for anything other than would been stipulated in the said trust, no matter what those stipulations are - which is certainly your decision to make when setting it up. The relationship with both you and your dad, his grandfather, should be EARNED back by responsible, respectful behavior on his part..."illness" or not. Part of recovery for him is about recognizing the damage to trust he created all his life with you, whether or not the “illness” prompted it. If it is real he will have a desire to sincerely earn it back and turn his life FULLY around now that he has his “answer” to what has sabotaged his life up to now. He would then be doing all he can to do to overcome it all. He would recognize that he doesn't deserve a relationship with you both if he didn't. Otherwise, you see, in many ways, it is just another manipulation using these new words. While a person who is struggling to gain control of their life again will fall and stumble at times, they fight to hold on to the wellness, not the excuses. The excuses give the BP power, the commitment to getting balanced and leading a responsible happy life gives the rational mind the power. It is NEVER easy, and it is a lifelong struggle. But MANY achieve it because with proper help, and the use of resources which are available, it IS attainable. Just read some of the postings so many of the BP’s on this site that are struggling and fighting for that wellness responsibly and attaining it on various levels are doing. You’ll see why some, more than others, are getting there. This site, god bless it, is about support for all and we ALL learn from and support each other here. Keep us posted on how it’s going. LFW
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