Could this be bi-polar.....It seems like it is Borderline Personality Disorder...Thought please

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gary1598
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Date Joined Jun 2007
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   Posted 9/17/2007 9:22 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi there..Just want some feedback on my situation... Met a girl 2 yrs ago this past April. Friday nite date... ended up hanging out the whole weekend...Then it started.. She was there 7 days a week.. 5 to 10 phone calls a day...emails... blew in like a hurricane and stayed 2 yrs.. Over this period of time..I started noticing her crazy erratic mood swings.. hypersensitive.. couldnt spend a night alone.. Needed constant validation...overly emotional... If i mentiond a pimple on her nose she freaked.. if i yelled at my son to get out of the shower .. she told me she couldnt take the yelling.. we couldnt have a discussion or disagreement without her panicking and running out of the house and ending the relationship only to call days later apologizing. She started making me choose between her and my son who is 13.. that he was old enough to leave alone and I should come visit her. A year into the relationship she flippantly announced she had been diagnosed with panic/anxiety disorder but wasnt taking her meds, they were in the car glovebox because she was afraid of the side effects... Finally got her to counselling. She broke up with me a half dozen times in the last 3 months. Could never do enough. Wasnt loving enough.. wasnt romantic enough.. didnt kiss her enough and get this didnt hug her hard enough.. So after she ended it this past Mar I went to the same counsellor who said she believed she was bipolar instead.. online one night a guy told me to look up borderline personality disorder. and it was a light went off.. The reason i say that is her mother was panic/anxiety and used to run my girl to her moms sister in another city every couple months cause she couldnt cope.. when she hit 2 yrs old this woman said to my girls mom if you bring her again Im keeping her.. she did so she did.. so my girls aunt raised her as her own and untill she was 14 believed this family to be hers.. at 14 she was told that in fact they were aunt uncle and cousins.. To this day when my girl and her mother are in the same room her mother doesnt acknowledge her..She has been married twice.. 42 yrs old... and always said to me that im going to go find a guy to love me for me...so she has been gone 4 months and I doubt I will here from her again .. but wrote a letter just after the break up .. saying she needed to get help and manage this or the pattern would repeat.. I was devestated.. so much guilt cause thats how they make you feel.. anyways doing much better now.. just wondered if this sounded like BPD to anyone.. Im still processing things and this is good therapy .. i just want to move on and find a normal woman

loving frustrated wife
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   Posted 9/17/2007 5:01 PM (GMT -7)   
I’m sorry to hear of all your strife in the last 2 years, and as to dx'ing her as BP or not, I am not a doctor. But, based on my own life experiences, I could say this to you...if you really want a "nice normal girl", then I suggest you stop worrying about her. Wish her well certainly, but let go of the guilt, worry, thoughts, processing of the "issues" (is she or isn't she BP), and focus on YOU. You need to look at why you didn't end this with her at the beginning. Why you didn't see the red flags, or if you did, why you weren’t willing to heed them. You need to look at what is it about you that attracted this type of woman. If you want this "healthy normal person in your life", then you have to be as healthy as you can be inside of you to attract that, and be able to recognize it when it comes. Take the time to do some of your own self reflection here. When she would say you didn't do enough of this or that...ask yourself if it wasn't true A) why you stayed with a person when you weren't married who accused you of all these "terrible" things, and B) why you allowed yourself to be treated that way by a person you were suppose to be in a love relationship with, and C) why you allowed her to break up with you and come back over and over, but didn't put an end to it for yourself . How do you define "love"? The list of soul searching questions can go on and on. Perhaps you too should seek some counseling to help you with some self reflection, growth and recovery here? Just a few thoughts for you to think about. Because while you are on this site seeking answers, notice….they are still about "her" and not YOU. Notice the placement of where you are putting yourself. Good luck and I hope you find what you seek in time. LFW

gary1598
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Date Joined Jun 2007
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   Posted 9/17/2007 5:12 PM (GMT -7)   
thank you for your response.. it has been almost 7 months.. i have been in counselling.. and yes that was one of the first questions.. why i stayed.. why didnt i leave.. Im working on those issues. trying to come up with answers.. but i guess i posted here for some closure.. i do want to move on.. but just wanted some closure

Honey Bee
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Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 114
   Posted 9/18/2007 6:01 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Gary

Sorry to hear that you are suffering.

Just thought I would give you my thoughts in answer to your original question. It can be very hard to distinguish between all of these type of disorders as some of them have very similar symptoms/traits and they often go hand in hand as well and people can definately suffer from multiple disorders. My hubbie is BP1 but also has Borderline Personality Disorder as well. The BP comes from his dad's side and his terrible family life made it surface in his early teens. As for the Borderline Personality Disorder, from the little I know and have read (his psych said that there is no real treatment for the BPD) there are similarities to Bipolar but I know in my hubbies case when I read a few lists of behaviour etc. about it I can see that it developed in his case because of his upbringing and the way he was treated as a child and teenager. I don't think it would have developed if he had been brought up in a more 'normal' environment.

It sounds like your 'girl' could be suffering from any number of conditions so without a proper diagnosis from a good doc it will be hard for you to know. Also, sounds like her mum had problems which could be a link genetically for her as well as some of these illnesses are passed on through families. Plus her upbringing has obviously not helped her.

I would agree with LFW in that you would be better thinking about yourself now and moving on with your life. Good to know that you have been in counselling, sounds like a positive step.

Honey Bee

gary1598
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Date Joined Jun 2007
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   Posted 9/19/2007 5:04 AM (GMT -7)   
well she was diagnosed as panic/anxiety and the counsellor was sure she is bipolar...so i think there was more to it then her being a b***h.. but she could be that too

serafena
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   Posted 9/19/2007 10:14 AM (GMT -7)   
Panic and Anxiety disorder is a reasonably common disorder, Gary. The National Institute of Mental Health webpage estimates that 6 million Americans suffer from it. That's roughly 1 in 75 people, according to the page. It's 50% more common in women than in men. Everyone with the disorder has varying degrees of debilitation from it. Some people have basic panic attacks. Some have agoraphobia so severe they can't leave their houses. Assuming that your dating life continues, it's not out of the question that you'll meet another woman with the disorder. Most of us who have it (and I'm guessing that most of us on the bipolar side of this board have had anxiety issues at some point) manage to live with it.

Bipolar is another matter. You're trusting the diagnosis of a counselor. I don't mean to suggest that your counselor is less than qualified, but counselors are not doctors, and counselors have hugely differing ranges of training. Some are religious leaders, some have masters degrees in social work, some have doctorates in psychotherapy. Your counselor might have suggested your ex had bipolar and you stuck with it, but without a medical doctor's diagnosis, you're going on a guess. Bipolar is a physiological condition. She needed to see a doc, and if she wasn't willing to do that, you couldn't have helped her.

I can, sadly, tell you this. Unfortunately, many women who suffered childhood abuse and often go through long periods of life being treated as though they are just "b***hes" instead of people who have been severely mistreated and don't know who to trust. It takes a lot of love and patience to be involved with someone like that. Sounds like it worked out best for everyone.

serafena
Ask me about my Bipolar Disorder!

Post Edited (serafena) : 9/19/2007 11:28:56 AM (GMT-6)


gary1598
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Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 9/19/2007 10:30 AM (GMT -7)   
I think the problem is Im just trying to put a definite label on it for closure so I can move on...easier said than done

serafena
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Date Joined May 2007
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   Posted 9/19/2007 10:37 AM (GMT -7)   
I edited that. I think it came out sounding harsher than I meant it too. Sorry about that.

I don't think you'll be able to label it without a doctor. Call it a mood disorder or a personality disorder and move on. Are you just looking for a reason so you don't have to feel guilty? I don't think you have to. A name isn't going to make the situation any different.
Ask me about my Bipolar Disorder!


loving frustrated wife
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Date Joined Jun 2007
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   Posted 9/20/2007 3:02 PM (GMT -7)   
Gary, the more you try to "figure her out" the MORE you are doing exactly opposite what you are saying you want, which is to get over it all and move on. This isn't about her anymore, it is about you. Start asking yourself the hard questions about why you don't want to let her go here. Start getting honest with yourself. Do you feel it was a personal failure on our part that you couldn't help this person who didn't want help? Do you have such a need to punish yourself somehow? ETC... These are far more important questions to you than ANYTHING about her. Anytime your focus includes or starts with her, then you are holding on after 7 months. Ask yourself this: You handed your personal power over to her for 2 years of your life, you have now spent 7+ months trying to "get over her" and "figure her out". How much more of your life are you willing to hand over to this woman?

I know this issue personally. When I was in my early 20's, I had a breakup. I thought I was doing okay after almost a year until one day I realized when I walked in the front door of my "new apartment" and said hello to him through the box of books sitting by the front door that belonged to him that I "moved" to my new place with me because I couldn't bring myself to throw it out "in case I saw him again and could return it!" It was like having a piece of him with me. Clearly, I hadn't let go. So, the next day I called him, said he had 48 hours to pick up this box or I would just chuck it. He said he wanted it, and I left it out front of my building taped up with his name on it. I CHOSE not to see him. I came home from work the next day and the box was gone. From that day forward...I was free. I thought I was before, but I wasn't. It wasn't HE who was holding on, it was ME. But I had to get honest about that before I could finally take my own personal power back. The issues are about us, not the other person, otherwise you would have moved forward by now. Best of luck to you. LFW

gary1598
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Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 9/20/2007 4:21 PM (GMT -7)   
I thank everyone for there responses... in my defence thou I would like to say that I am moving on.. I am processing things.. Im not sure thay people with this afflictin realize what they do to the non that they are with.. i cam into this relationship confident and strong.. was just a nice guy who was very attracted to this woman.. and wanted it to go somewhere.. red flags came up immediately which I still kick my ass for not heeding.. one thing i have learned through this processing.. then over the following 2 yrs had my self esteem ripped from me very subversively and very quietly.. things she constantly said to me.. that any other woman would have been more than content to have in a man.. And the funniest thing is you dont realize how far you have fallen until its over and your there alone to take stock of yourself.. This is my way of analyzing things... making sense of it all.. Althou you are right.. a mental illness is just that.. a mental illmess no matter what the label and a person doesnt deserved to be treated that way no matter what the name of it..You may be surprised to learn if you gto on other forums like BPD... there are people who have taken years to get over this sort of relationship... It truly does damage you emotionally.. we go in with nothing but good intentions.. get treated like crap in such away that it isnt truly obvious .. and then are kicked to the curb wondering who was driving the Mack truck that hit us

glorydays
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Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 15
   Posted 9/20/2007 5:06 PM (GMT -7)   
Ya know Gary I'm glad you've expressed your feelings as the other person -the one that is'nt Bipolar. It will help all those that post here reflect on not only what they go thru but what they put their loved ones thru. Yeh, they know they do it but it hits home when someone says" Hey I'm hurting here too,what did I do to be treated this way?" Take the time to heal yourself ,try not to place blame on her or you ,BP is an illness still not understood and not well treated. As I'm sure you've come to realize meds are a crap shoot some help some don't. Until more research and funding (and IMPORTANCE) is placed towards mental illness we are not going to get our loved ones the help they need. Stay strong and healthy.

loving frustrated wife
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Date Joined Jun 2007
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   Posted 9/20/2007 7:01 PM (GMT -7)   
Gary, you don't need to defend yourself here. I certainly get where you are coming from. I was just trying to share what I have learned after many years of living, and many years of therapy for myself before and since getting married (I have a BP husband and son). I learned in my life that you can not figure out the other person - ill or not. All we have control over is ourselves and that is really all that matters about the situation. You’re asking to make sense of something that doesn't make sense, that doesn’t have reason, that doesn’t have order to it, and it never will. Sure situations may have similar patterns (assuming she is a BP), but the root to the motivation, circumstances, reasons for things...are exclusive to her. And that can't be figured out other than to say she was messed up, and raging in her illness - whatever that may be. And when people are sick like this they can be hurtful, control freaks, damaging to others, thoughtless, ruthless…etc. to another person. There is no discrimination between being a loved one or not. But this kind of damaging behavior is not exclusive to mental illness either. I have seen and know men and women who have also behaved this way and do NOT have a mental illness.

As to the damage it did to you as a person....believe me, I get it. I have always been a strong woman, but that relationship I spoke of earlier (the one that ended in my early 20's after 5 years before meeting my husband in my early 30's)...I mourned for this and cried about how damaged it left me for a year until the day I realized the "answers" didn't matter. Figuring it out about the why's and wherefores about THEM didn't matter. The why's and wherefores about ME did. I was in the pain I was because I gave me away bit by bit, and if I gave me away bit by bit, I could reclaim myself again too. That day I stopped focusing on him, and REALLY focused only on healing me was the first time I really felt like myself again. I wasn't about my pain, I was now about my healing and HE no longer was needed for me to do that inside. When I unzipped me, he was no longer there. I got he didn't feel as I did because I hadn’t left him damaged…I hadn’t mattered enough to do that. But, once I let go of that dam box, I turned my corner and began finding answers about and for me exclusively. That is when the real healing began because I could feel myself inside again. The woman I knew from before was coming back and then I began to ask myself the questions that mattered about how I can not give me away again in the future. Why had I done this? Why had I allowed it? Why didn’t I pay better attention when the red flags when up, and how will I see them and honor them in the future…etc.

You sound like a very nice man and I hope you heal and allow yourself the opportunity to find a healthy relationship out there. I speak as a woman now…good men are hard to find, and there are plenty of good women out there just looking for a good man. I hope you heal quickly and find your smile again. Good luck to you. LFW

gary1598
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Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 9/20/2007 7:17 PM (GMT -7)   
LFW.....thank you for your your unbiased look at things.. I feel for anyone going through this non or not.. Life throws us curves.. it gets tiring . but we all rebound.. but we have to look inside to do that.. i am doing that now... Its so enlightening to come on here.. the enemy so to speak and here such comforting words ... kudos to you alll.. and i know we will all find what we need and what makes us happy

loving frustrated wife
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Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted 9/20/2007 9:21 PM (GMT -7)   
Life with a BP is never easy. But we love each other, have a lovely family, and work to honor that...even when it is hard. Today it works...tomorrow I plan for, but can not live until it comes. Everyday has its own set of challenges, but when my husband and I take a broader view of what we have built together after almost 16 years of marriage and 3 young kids, we are proud and know when the tougher days come...they eventually go...we work through it the best we can. Happiness is aways what you make it. It can be simple, it can be complicated. Each of us seeks our own definition. The healthier you are, the more you'll attact your definition to your life. Be well...LFW

Honey Bee
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Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 114
   Posted 9/20/2007 11:06 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Gary

I was just reading through your posts again and wanted to go back to something you mentioned earlier about the damage it does to you as a person. Normally I don't think too much about this and also I notice that not many people do comment on it long term but as I am having a bad couple of days then I thought I would respond.

Living and loving a BP spouse or partner does damage you terribly emotionally. It is not something that is immediately obvious but over time it does sap your confidence and belief in yourself to the point where you wake up some days and wonder who you are. The mean and spiteful comments over the years erode your belief in all of the good things about yourself. You are right in that you go into a relationship with good intentions and end up coming out the other end damaged goods.

In fact I myself think that I would be incapable of having any kind of 'normal' relationship (should my hubbie of 21 years and I ever break up). I think I would need a significant amout of counselling as I now really don't feel on some days that I have any kind of idea what this would be like in terms of interaction, discussion, normal arguments etc. BP can make people very manipulative and cruel at times and it can be difficult to separate fact from fiction sometimes. If you are not very confident about yourself in the first place (I am not) then it is very easy to believe over time that you are a piece of dirt and have no redeeming qualities. It is difficult to even know who you are sometimes.

So we wonder why do we stay in these relationships? It is impossible IMO for people outside of them to understand all of the intricacies and dynamic that go in a
'normal' relationship so how can friends and family get what goes on in ours? Although my hubbie and I do have terrible times that I know will always continue due to the BP - Just when you think you have a handle on things that is when it always takes you by surprise and you have a bad few days. We do love each other totally and have shared many great times together. We could split up but then I am not about to throw 20 years of my life away, have no job (we have a business together), struggle massively financially and then there is no guarantee that I am ever going to meet someone in the future who is a decent caring person. There are lots of 'bad' people out there who don't have a mental illness as a reason to treat people badly. So I can often feel like I am stuck between a rock and a hard place which if difficult to cope with and I know many others feel the same, but for me for now I am staying put and all we can do is cope with it the best we can.

Honey Bee

gary1598
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Date Joined Jun 2007
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   Posted 9/24/2007 10:15 AM (GMT -7)   
I appreciate your imput
 
GAry

gary1598
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Date Joined Jun 2007
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   Posted 10/24/2007 8:01 AM (GMT -7)   
Well my counsellor.....thinks it is Borderline Personality Disorder...but symptoms frome the disorders overlap so much....well we may never know

olivia of course
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   Posted 10/24/2007 11:37 AM (GMT -7)   
gary,

It is possible for them tp overlap, but one has more traits of one than the other. Also, the treatment methods might be different from each other.
Olivia
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Dx:  Bipolar I, Anxiety-Panic Disorder, PTSD
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serafena
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Date Joined May 2007
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   Posted 10/24/2007 9:44 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for letting us know Gary. You've decided to see a counselor, then? That seems like a good idea? How's everything going with you these days?
Serafena
Co-Moderator, Bipolar Forum

It is a melancholy of mine own, compounded of many simples, extracted from many objects, and indeed the sundry contemplation of my travels, in which my often rumination wraps me in a most humorous sadness. -- William Shakespeare


gary1598
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Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 17
   Posted 10/25/2007 4:56 AM (GMT -7)   
Well we have since ended the relationship.....a couple of months ago....she has since moved on to another guy..Classic borderline trait....so its been tough...but probably for the best....she takes no responsibility for what she has be it BP or BPD.....so I suppose the pattern will repeat itself whether its 6 months or 2 yrs like us or 10 yrs...it is sad..a sweet girl....we had so much chemistry....but I have to wonder if anything she said was the truth regarsing her feelings for me..or was I more an object to fill her bottomless pit of needs.....and someone to blame for how she felt about herself....yes Im seeing a counsellor to work on me
 
 

serafena
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Date Joined May 2007
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   Posted 10/25/2007 10:18 AM (GMT -7)   
Oh, I bet she did have feelings for you. I was talking to my doctor just yesterday and I asked her something that we BP's struggle with all the time "How do I know what's my emotion and what's the BP and what's the medication?" and she answered very sagely, "it's all you." The BP or the medication turn the volume up or down, but the emotion itself is yours. So I'm sure she did have feelings for you -- if that's any consolation. I'm sorry to hear you're still struggling, but I'm certain eventually someone will come along who's a better fit.
Serafena
Co-Moderator, Bipolar Forum

It is a melancholy of mine own, compounded of many simples, extracted from many objects, and indeed the sundry contemplation of my travels, in which my often rumination wraps me in a most humorous sadness. -- William Shakespeare

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