is it truthful and sincere when it is said in mania?

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Casem
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 187
   Posted 9/22/2007 10:36 AM (GMT -7)   
Thank you both (serafena and sukay) so much for your honest, kind words. I woke up feeling very lonely and hopeless and already feel a bit better.

When he first was diagnosed, I went to all of his doctor's appts. with him to learn and support, but also to explain the details of what goes on day to day. I kept in touch with his doctors to inform them of any drinking binges or issues with meds. He tried seroquel, abilify, lamictal...none of which he could tolerate in addition to his existing effexor. I think he was so upset by the diagnosis, he was in denial about truly having a problem and didn't want "to be on meds the rest of his life". He has actually said that he thinks if he tries really hard, he can manage it himself.

Now his dad and I talk regularly to help eachother and try to keep informed. He would tell his dad one thing and me another about his work, meds, drinking, bills, etc. When he found out we were talking, he accused me of trying to control him and that I have betrayed him again and again.

I kow I can't help him if he doesn't want help. But I can't even desribe the pain I feel now that he has said that too much has happened and he is not in love with me any more. He actually told me this week that he met someone on line and he wants to fresh start to make a relationship work with her. (He was drinking for three days before that discussion!)

Even after I asked him to leave, we talk regularly (every day, several times a day) and I try to support him.

Oh...did I mention he has (3) young sons from his previous marriage! His ex-wife and I have spoken on many occasions and she and I get along to the extent we are both aware of his issues and want the best for the boys. I tried everything I could for this to be a safe, loving environment for them.

I feel like I could have done something different. Was I too controlling? Too pushy with his care? The fact that he hasn't called at all since Monday makes me think he wasn't in mania, but sincerely doesn't love me anymore. How do you know what is a sincere emotion and truthful and what is said in a bout of mania?

I feel like I am going crazy sometimes.......



 
Casem
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loving frustrated wife
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Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted 9/22/2007 4:56 PM (GMT -7)   
Casem, I am a wife and mother to BP's. So I am just going to get on with giving it to you straight. I hope that is okay. I know that you have been with you bf for 3 1/2 years and really want to see it work. For you there is TREMENDOUS love there. All the issues of what he has said, what he is doing...etc. can be summed up as follows -- He is out of control drinking and running away from what he really needs to be doing to get well, he is abusive to you and completely dishonoring of the 3 1/2 years you have been together. In his head, he THINKS starting fresh is going to let him start anew with no mistakes and it will be like the BP wasn't diagnosed, isn't real, and therefore he doesn't have to face it. Okay...NOW...here is the hard part for you...there is nothing you can do to change this situation as much as I wish there were for you. He is the only one who can do it and he is not. He did not hear the dx and say "Oh thank god, I have a name for the way I am acting...wow, there's help - if I do the work, take my meds, accept that I won’t feel perfect to start …BUT I can become who I want to be...this does not have to control or define me….SIGN ME UP!" Instead, he ran. This is what you need to not kid yourself about. HE RAN – and he may or may not ever stop. And as much as you want to make him face this...YOU CAN"T. ONLY HE CAN. He may, or may not, ever be ready to do that. Many are not. Many are. You can not do the work for him. I know this is not what you want to hear. But your first instinct was correct to tell him if he did not contribute to your home in a positive way, he could no longer live there (being dx shouldn’t change that). This tells me you are a smart strong woman who will in the end be okay regardless of the outcome here.

ALL you can do is communicate to him that you love him, don’t blame him, are there for him IF he is sincere in his wanting to get well and be a balanced healthy person. That there is help out there for him by seeing a pdoc AND therapist regularly, there are medications that will help if he is patient and diligent and committed they will and can be found, and when the right cocktail is created then takes them faithfully (like a diabetic who needs their insulin – that is a lifelong thing). And he can go to a support group and learn all he can about his condition and eventually not be controlled by it. That you are willing to walk through this with him, be there for him, be on his team to wellness, that you love him and want to build a life together. But you must get honest with yourself and IF he does not change his mind and choose wellness instead of running….then you are left with no choice but to wish him well and stick to you guns and say goodbye.

Casem, this is a hard life even with a BP who is striving and working diligently to hold on to wellness. And grant you, there are no guarantees in life with anything. But you need to be asking yourself what life you want for YOU. What is it you want to have in a relationship with a LIFE partner? (LIFE by the way is a LONG time!) Will this man be able to fulfill that? Hard questions but necessary. Do you want children? If he is drinking or raging regularly, what life is that for kids….face the fact that you are an adult and are having trouble coping…imagine a child. I am not saying leaving is easy. IT IS NOT. It is like a death. But, you will mourn and you will move on. Nothing says if wellness comes reconciliation can’t enter in as well. Nothing says that friendship can’t exist at some point in the future between you if you move forward and start anew for yourself. But, how long are you willing to wait? And how long are you willing to suffer the negative effects of HIS CHOOSING not to get well?

I hope this was not too harsh. If you were my daughter, I would have said the same thing. Learn to take as good care of yourself, as you have been trying to take of him. Good luck to you. LFW

Casem
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 187
   Posted 9/22/2007 6:24 PM (GMT -7)   
 
LFW,
Ouch! sad Thank you for taking the time to respond. I understand that you have great experience with bp, but this is relatively new to me. I know that everything you are saying is true, but that doesn't make it hurt any less and my wounds are still very fresh. I am sitting here, alone, without the person I have spent the last 3+ years of my life with and my family (including my mother) is an hour away. While I have tried to make a new home in a new city, I find myself isolated and depresssed.
 
With all of your years of bp support, I am sure you can imagine how insecure and hurt I am now. I am blaming myself, and looking for any other explanation to help me make sense of this. It is devastating to give your life to someone only to be cut out of their life without warning. I know I asked him to leave, but I honestly thought that would be his rock bottom. I thought he loved me enough to want to choose health and wellness in order to live a healthy life with me.
 
I am prepared to move forward. I knew the risk when I asked him to leave. If he isn't on meds and healthy, I don't want him in my life. Maybe it is a control thing......but it hurts more now that he is choosing not to be with me. It's like he doesn't think its the bp making him miserable.....he thinks its me and our relationship...and that kills me. Does that make sense?
 
Anyway, I hope that one day I am as strong and confident in my decisions dealing with bp as you. I know.....the truth hurts....and I asked for the advice. I do appreciate it with all of my heart. I will mourn and I will move on.....but for now, I can't stop hurting and crying.
 
Casem
New Bipolar Supporter


Casem
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 187
   Posted 9/22/2007 8:26 PM (GMT -7)   

It is amazing.....the rollercoaster ride of emotions one can feel in one day. I can't thank all of you enough for sharing your experiences from both sides of the bp fence. I will go to sleep tonight with a little peace.

Sukay and LFW - I woke up feeling desperate and alone....and you have given me strength and understanding that I wouldn't have found anywhere else today. Your honesty and generosity is exactly what I needed. I wish I had found this site sooner.

Sukay - I admire your tenacity in treating your bp. You are very brave and strong to have made it this far. I only hope and pray Michael finds his way to wellness some day.

LFW - Now I know where to go to when I need coaching to handle this terrible beast! I am a strong 33 yr. old woman who can handle it! To think you would say the same things to your daughter? I am honored.

 
 
Casem
New Bipolar Supporter


loving frustrated wife
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted 9/22/2007 10:35 PM (GMT -7)   
Casem, I know you are in pain. I am sorry if my words were too harsh. But I believe every day you live in denial or false hope harms you more than the truth in the long run. I hope you understand what I mean. You say you want to make sense of what's happened, how he can blame you for HIS misery and not the BP...etc. Here's the thing...you can't make sense out of something that by its nature makes no sense, other than to accept, that your bf is currently raging and mentally ill. He is using YOU as the excuse vs. facing himself. Nothing of what he is saying is true...in fact, I could guarantee it is completely opposite what he is saying. Anymore trying to “make sense of this” is a waste of your time and life and will not add any more value or bring any more meaning about the situation to you. The other thing is "don't give away your reality to someone who is currently not rational". If you buy into what he is saying, than you are giving him power he doesn't deserve, and diminishing YOUR wellbeing in the process. YOU stand tall knowing that you are seeing things clearly, in reality, and release what his words have been. You did the right thing. The problem sounds like you did it for the wrong reasons at the time. You told him to leave as a manipulation and that has bitten you in the butt. But, it still was the right thing. You're 33 my dear, you have lived enough life to know that there is sadness when someone we love leaves our lives, whether we have chosen it or not. You will cry until the tears stop coming, but DON"T succumb to the depression. You have an amazing life out there to live with (I am sure) many people who love you and will help you find your smile again. But recognize and be proud that you proved a REALLY important thing to yourself...YOU TOOK CARE OF YOU in the end. That is a FABULOUS thing. If your family is only an hour away…go home for a few days, or a few hours, over the weekend and let your parents hold you and kiss the boo-boo’s (regardless of age we still need this sometimes), then pick yourself up by your bootstraps and get on with your life. MAKE A PLAN for yourself to move on in your life. Write in a gratitude journal, take a dance class, take a cooking class (I hear Japanese is fun!), do yoga to currently find your inner chee…Take all the “stuff” and clean out your living space. Place all the reminders in a box or two or three and put it away in the back of a closet for now. Join a support group, social club, sewing circle…it doesn’t matter. But if you are in a new town and not made friends yet…now is the time to begin. Wonderful things await you that will help you heal. Take as good care of yourself now as you have been trying to take of him. YOU will appreciate it more. You will heal, you will move on, you WILL smile again….I assure you. LFW

serafena
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 3715
   Posted 9/23/2007 5:56 AM (GMT -7)   
Casem:

I too am sorry to hear how painful this is for you. I too had a breakup after a long-term relationship and they really, really suck.

And I add that perhaps BECAUSE you are forcing him to face his illness he is throwing in the towel on your relationship. It sounds like he wants to continue his delusion and you're not helping him with that. You're saying "here's what you must do to be well" and "I'm not going to continue putting up with this." And he just wants to drink and try and forget about how badly he feels. Well, it doesn't work that way. A new romance for him isn't going to work. More alcohol definitely isn't going to work. Pretending the disorder isn't real won't work. It will only get worse. And LFW is right, the longer it went on in that vein, the more he'd eventually blame you for "bugging" him about his meds, etc. It has to come from him.

To answer your question: No. Not everything said in a mania is technically true. But how a person handles a mania says a lot about them.

You're in pain, and I feel for you. But I am impressed that you've already done the hardest part. Stay strong.

serafena
Ask me about my Bipolar Disorder!


Casem
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 187
   Posted 9/23/2007 6:38 AM (GMT -7)   
Thank you, again, for your encouraging words. I think I will go home and spend time with my mom today. It is a beautiful sunny day and I am going to TRY to occupy my mind with other things.

I am so amazed at the love and caring shown on this site......you all are very amazing people!

Have a great day!
 
Casem
New Bipolar Supporter


loving frustrated wife
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted 9/23/2007 9:37 AM (GMT -7)   
Casem, GOOD FOR YOU! If you close your eye and tilt your face up to the sky, the sun will dry away all your tears! Then you can smile with a sun kissed glow for the rest of the day. A good loving hug from Mom will do the rest. Remember, it doesn't matter how old we get, we always need our moms! That is a good thing. Hugs, LFW

bam
New Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 10/1/2007 6:23 PM (GMT -7)   
Wow, Casem just reading what u are going thru is so much of what I went thru . I too have tried to save my husband and even used similar words u said to your bf. He definatley acts like my husband. I feel guilty sometimes for pushing too hard and sometimes I feel I pushed him away this disorder is sooo confusing. When I got sick I had been bleeding for 3months after my husband left and his mania was the worst I'd seen him he told me too he didn't love me anymore. I ended up in the hospital 5 x's and had 2 blood tranfusions the doctors could stop this bleeding and I was more worried about what he was out there doing then me getting well. It turned out I had a tumor in my uterus and had to have an emergency hestorectomy. I never called him during that time becoz I thought he wouldn't care. I realized in that hospital if I chose to stay sick we were going to loose everything and my little girl would not have a mother. I had to save "ME" 3 wks later I woke up in the middle of the nite coz I couldn't sleep and I fainted on the bathroom floor and my little girl found me there and when I came to I washed my face and saw I'd broken my nose and ended back in the hospital. When I looked in the mirror and saw the cast on my nose I saw what became of me and I knew that I forgotten about me becoz all my energy was to save my husband ,my family and our home. I am ok now and our home is secured but he can't come home anymore and I miss him sooo much. Today when I told him how sick I really was he said he was sorry for not being there for me and I should of called him that he deserved to know. Well at that time I had to think about me and my daughter and I couldn't worry anymore what he was doing who he was with I had to take care of me. And that's how I am living each day now but u are right it dosen't take away the pain and hurt . This is why I am here to find people like me I want my husband back but I want him well and I have to accept that it's up to him and not me anymore.

Casem
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 187
   Posted 10/2/2007 10:03 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Bam,
I know it hurts, and I know you hang on to the hope that someday he will be back...the same man you fell in love with. Rather than focus on something that you have no control over....focus on you. No matter what happens between you and your husband, you need to be strong in order to manage your life for you and your daughter. HE is choosing not to get well.....it is HIS choice, not yours. I learned the hard way that a sick person CAN NOT give me what I need in a relationship. If you truly want him to be healthy, the best thing you can do for him is be strong and continue to give him the same message. His failure to take his mental health seriously....is unacceptable to you.
 
LFW said a few words that really struck me ......"you can't make sense out of something that by its nature makes no sense, other than to accept, that your bf is currently raging and mentally ill. He is using YOU as the excuse vs. facing himself. Nothing of what he is saying is true...in fact, I could guarantee it is completely opposite what he is saying. Anymore trying to “make sense of this” is a waste of your time and life and will not add any more value or bring any more meaning about the situation to you. The other thing is "don't give away your reality to someone who is currently not rational". If you buy into what he is saying, than you are giving him power he doesn't deserve, and diminishing YOUR wellbeing in the process. YOU stand tall knowing that you are seeing things clearly, in reality, and release what his words have been. You did the right thing."
 
Do not give him, or this disorder, the power to turn your lives upside down. It is managable, and it is possible to live a healthy life with this disorder. Look at all of the wonderful, courageous people on this site who struggle with the disorder every day. They know what they need to do to be healthy and live a quality life....and they do it. Yes, there are ups and downs, and times of great struggle, but the fact is that they do not give in to the turmoil. He has to be committed to that goal as well. There is nothing you can do or say that will invoke that response in him. It must come from him. If he doesn't get help...he will most likely never be the man you fell in love with. Do you want to live with that in your life for the rest of your life? Do you want your daughter to learn that she must accept abuse and turmoil from men in relationships?
 
You need to be the one in control, you decide what is good for you and your daughter...and I think you already know the truth. If he chooses to be a healthy part of that life by seeing a pdoc and finding the right meds....great. If not, you need to prove to yourself and to him that you are strong enough to walk away and choose a healthy life for yourself and your daughter without him.
 
It took me so long to come to that realization, but after suffering through the abuse, neglect, and chaos....I knew that it just wasn't right. A healthy, loving relationship isn't supposed to be that way. You both have needs that are to be met.....it isn't all about him and his needs. Remember, his needs aren't based in reality.....they are most likely a response to his mania...and the theme for a manic episode is...."if it feels good right now, i am going to do it, i dont care who i hurt." He is looking for instant gratification, regardless of the repercussions. How can a relationship survive for any length of time if one partner rules their life with that theme? Not to mention that depression that soon follows. By nature, the disorder is manipulative and cunning....do not give in to it. You know the truth....trust yourself and your inner voice.
 
I hope this helps. Every day you must make an effort to stop thinking of him and to start thinking of yourself. Your health is #1! If you aren't taking care of yourself...who will?
 
Stay Strong!
 
Casem
New Bipolar Supporter


serafena
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 3715
   Posted 10/2/2007 11:08 AM (GMT -7)   
((((Hugs for Casem)))) Yeah!
Serafena
Co-Moderator, Bipolar Forum

Ask me about my Bipolar Disorder!


bam
New Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 10/2/2007 2:13 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks Casem!

You made great sense to me today and U hit things right on the nail! U said "If it feels good right now, I am going to do it ,I don'tcare who I hurt." Is exactly what he does and has been doing all along. And then he says I never wanted this to happen is the downside when the damage is done. U are sooo right and the truth hurts especially when the damage is so great.

Casem
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 187
   Posted 10/3/2007 7:08 AM (GMT -7)   

Bam,

You should thank LFW and Sukay and Serafena and Olivia, too. I would not be so strong and able to give you this advice a few weeks ago. They have given such great advice and insight. Keep in touch with everyone here every day and talk about your feeling and ask questions. It will help you to grow stronger every day!


 
Casem
New Bipolar Supporter


loving frustrated wife
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted 10/3/2007 4:32 PM (GMT -7)   
just want to chime in and add to what Casem has said...when you reach out here a good way to check in with yourself is try and stay focused on YOU and YOUR needs, or your child’s, not him and his. When it is about you, or your child’s, then you can have some control over the healing, when it is about him...you can not, no matter how much you try. So, help yourself most by allowing you to stand strong, and move FORWARD for you and your daughter. If he ever wants to catch up...it is on him to do it. You have given and sacrificed enough on his behalf, and shed enough tears for him. Anymore should be for you, and those will in time stop as you regain your footing. Hugs to you...LFW
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