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loving frustrated wife
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted Today 2:10 PM (GMT -7)   
How's it going girl!  You have been quite for a bit now.  Hoping all is well and sending you HUGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  LFW

sukay
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1432
   Posted 12/11/2007 7:29 PM (GMT -7)   
Yeah Casem,
 
LFW is right...we haven't heard from you in a while. I hope everything is going ok for you. Hope to hear from you soon as well.
~Sukay~
 
 


Casem
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 187
   Posted 12/12/2007 12:08 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi LFW and Sukay,

Thank you for your "shout out" and your concerns. I am here and I have just been lurking on the site occasionally. I have been doing ok....trying to stay very focused on me and haven't felt like I am in a good enough place to contribute positively to everyone.  I have adjusted very well to the meds and I am pleased with them. I finally got the CPAP machine and the first few days were great, but as the days have wore on, I found I am definitely  not at the right level of air, so I am eager for my sleep study on Friday when they will adjust the air level(titiration) according to my needs and I won't experience ANY apneas during the night. I am definitely feeling more focused, and I have more energy. I can't wait to start feeling the full effects!

I still haven't been able to see a therapist yet, and I am very frustrated. I have so much I need to work through and talk about....but I am trying to be patient with the pdoc's group.

I signed up for a personal trainer.....that is my Christmas present to myself. My sessions start in january. My new nutritional plan is going well...and have had very little appetite and no bulimic "episodes" to speak of.

I am preparing myself for a very rough Christmas for a multitude of reasons....first holidays without my grandparents EVER, first holidays in 4 years without Michael and the boys, my parents are experiencing serious financial problems and are having a lot of guilt about our (the kids) expectations. I am trying to stay very positive, but I am not going to be dilusional either. Every Christmas can't be terrific. Every year can't be candy canes and diamond earrings and hot cocoa. I am ok with that.

I am just relieved that I have the opportunity to make myself healthy, and I am doing it. I am 33 yrs. old and I am not wasting any more time....I am doing now, no matter how long it takes, and if that means some sad time, or some self reflection....so be it.

Thanks for asking....and caring....and listening....sorry I haven't been responding to your needs and issues. Please know you are always in my thoughts and prayers.


 
Casem
 


sukay
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1432
   Posted 12/13/2007 7:38 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Casem,
 
I'm glad you touched base with us. That's okay that you're taking a low profile and just lurking around. Most of us do that too when we feel not up to par to responding. It's still nice to come here and check up on what's going on with everyone else. So...you do what you gotta do! Don't ever feel pressured about responding/not responding. We get it, when someone is not around for awhile, we either figure things are very hectic for them, they are really busy, are having a very difficult time or like you, just keeping a low profile. But we need to check up on our buddies! That's what we're all about here. Giving support in any way we can.
 
Well, I truly hope you are able to get through the holiday season ok. You're aware of how hard it is going to be for you but it sounds like you're taking a healthy approach to it. Good for you for staying in the moment and trying really hard to get through all those rough passages. I certainly hope you get in to seeing a therapist during this time. I know it is going to be a rough one for you this year and right now I'm sending Angels your way to guide and comfort you during this time.
 
Wow! You signed up for a personal trainer! Good for you. That definately will be something positive to start your new year off!
 
Well Casem...just know that you are in our thoughts!!!
Wishing you wellness & Peace.
 
 
~~~~~~
~sukay~
~~~~~


sukay
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1432
   Posted 12/21/2007 11:33 AM (GMT -7)   
Just wanted to let you know, I'm still thinkin about you and I want to send ya this
(((BIG HUG)))
~sukay~
Diagnosed Bipolar - August 2004
     Crohns disease - 1995 
Arthritis & Fibromyalgia 


serafena
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 3715
   Posted 12/22/2007 12:37 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Casem,

It's good to hear you're doing okay and hanging in there. A personal trainer! Whoo hoo! Fancee! Hang in there this Christmas. It will be rough, but you are a strong woman, and you'll be okay. Rely on your friends and family (and us!) to pull you through and remind you of how far you've come. It really is a long way.
Serafena
Co-Moderator, Bipolar Forum

Bipolar II
It is a melancholy of mine own, compounded of many simples, extracted from many objects, and indeed the sundry contemplation of my travels, in which my often rumination wraps me in a most humorous sadness. -- William Shakespeare


loving frustrated wife
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted 12/26/2007 1:32 PM (GMT -7)   
Just thinking about you and hoping your holiday is going well, and you have surrounded yourself with love. Hugs....LFW

Casem
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 187
   Posted 12/30/2007 1:42 PM (GMT -7)   

Things have not been so great. As I sit here typing, I'm in tears. I spent Christmas with my mom, stepdad and sisters and that was wonderful. I was there from the 24th through the 26th. Since then, I have been home and haven't left my place. I go back to work tomorrow, and it's a good thing because I need a reason to get out of my own head. I couldn't go see my dad on Christmas. It was actually a get-together at my grandparents home (next door to my dad's) even though both my grandparents died this year, that's what everyone wanted to do. I just couldn't do it. My dad was not very happy, but my goal wasn't to please my dad this year. Everyone else said it would be great for healing....my heart couldn't stand anymore tears and I think my grandparents would've understood. I felt comfortable and loved and warm at my mom's and that is where I wanted to stay. I surrounded myself with love...and it felt great. I still need to reschedule with my dad.....

Unfortunately, I am hurting because of Michael, too. Things were going so well for him. He was on his medication, and back to work, but as these things seem to go...... two steps forward and one step back when it comes to bp......and the fool in me gets hurt again.....I should have been reading my own previous posts to remind myself of the manipulation and cruelty that is a part of his manic episodes. And just because someone is on medication, it doesn't mean they are stable or committed to a healthy life. We have been talking sporadically since I have been feeling great about myself....I thought I could handle it. AND I was handling it....for awhile....

One thing is for sure, my medication and therapy is working, because my anxiety level is down! I am just mad, and sad today. I hate bipolar disorder. I feel so deceived when I see glimpses of the Michael I like, the loving, kind Michael that makes me laugh......and then out of the blue, it seems, is this man who is thoughtless and arrogant and unappreciative. I wish there was a big flashing sign on his forehead that would say "RAPID CYCLING" and I would know to leave him alone or not take things personally. He is in a depression now and he doesn't know why. His dad and I keep telling him he needs to see his pdoc or therapist and he says no.....its just the holidays....well....its been going on for 4 weeks and you have missed work and you won't leave the basement....its more than that. His ex wife got engaged at Thanksgiving and he freaked out then, but he has been slowly trying to climb back..........

One day....I am focused on my life and he is focused on his and it is a balanced friendship and everything is fine and I feel good and the next day....BAM....like I hit a brick wall....I am blamed for the depression and horrors in his life. I ask occasionally about seeing his pdoc or therapist....he says he knows and he needs to do it on his own. (Which we all know is true). But he doesnt. I was doing well and trying so hard to stay focused on me....and than it could be just one thing he says or one thing he does that hurts so much....and when i try to explain why it hurts or how much it hurts and you can't have a healthy friendship when one person is hurtful.....he gets angry at me.....he says he is sorry....but thats it.......there is nothing else.....no feeling behind it.....no effort to make ammends.....no effort to change that thing that he did......


 
Casem
 


Casem
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 187
   Posted 12/30/2007 2:15 PM (GMT -7)   

This is why I am mad at Michael and bp today.....

Michael and I have discussed how difficult the holidays have been for him, given that he is alone for the first time, living in his dad's basement, with no money, and basically not much to give to his kids. I am trying to be understanding of his moods lately. Normally, I think he and his bp would be much worse. Obviously something is working....he hasn't been drinking, but he still isn't seeing his pdoc or therapist......he had another assesment for the Nord Center, which is a group closer to his home for a new pdoc a therapist two weeks ago.....and he hasn't followed up.... 

My issue is this......because I felt bad that he has no money (read "I am a sucker") I helped him and his dad buy sime gifts for the kids. I also bought him two small things. We said we weren't going to buy eachother anything because we are just friends with low funds this year. I agreed. But I felt terrible at the thought of him not having anything to open. I snuck his presents in the bag with some cookies I dropped off on Chirstmas Eve when I dropped off the dog before I went to my mom's house. I wasn't mad that he didn't make any effort whatsoever to get me anything (or make me anything....not even a card), until I found out that he went out with a girl last night and gave her a CD he burned for her. I freaked out on him today. Not that he went out with a girl, but that he made an effort for someone that he just met on line, and he made absolutely no effort for me. His story.....I didnt even call him on Christmas, I only responded to his text message of "Merry Christmas", which is true.  I wanted to be with my family and let him be alone with his family. I know he has been so depressed, he says he hated Christmas, he wished it would've never come, he has never hated a holiday so much as he did this year. He is sick of me asking about his pdoc and his meds. It was the worst holiday of his life, and all I want to do is talk about his depression. He just wanted to go out and have fun and NOT talk about his problems. That's fine, I said, but my issue is how ungrateful he is. I wanted his children to have a nice Christmas, and yes, I chose to buy them gifts. Wouldn't you think he would show some token of appreciation? Make a card, burn a CD for me? Under normal circumstances....he does do nice things for me.....just last week....he gave the dog a bath, he washed my car for me. But now....he doesn't do anything for me....and does something for a total stranger!!!! I am grounded in reality....he is in an episode....and I hate bipolar disporder. I hate that he is making me feel that I am irrational for wanting some effort on his part. I hate that he is making me feel that I am asking too much for wanting effort from him on Christmas as my friend. I hate that he can't handle my questions about his pdoc and meds. I hate that things are going great between us and then he freaks out and starts talking to other girls on line.
 
Casem
 


serafena
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 3715
   Posted 12/30/2007 3:04 PM (GMT -7)   
Oh Casem, I'm so sorry. That really sucks. Yes. You have been used. You are still being used. You are a good, good woman to help with presents for those kids. Expecting any show of affection in return from him makes sense to logical people, but he's just not logical. I'm so sorry. I wish I could make it better, but he's just not going to make it easy on any of us. ((((hugs for you))))
Serafena
Co-Moderator, Bipolar Forum

Bipolar II
It is a melancholy of mine own, compounded of many simples, extracted from many objects, and indeed the sundry contemplation of my travels, in which my often rumination wraps me in a most humorous sadness. -- William Shakespeare


loving frustrated wife
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted 12/31/2007 12:56 AM (GMT -7)   
Casem, I know you will hate this, and I know that others will feel I am TOO direct in what I am going to give as my thoughts on what you have shared...but given your desire for wellness, I want to support that and that means telling you the truth of what I see in what you shared...SO...here goes....

#1 - you say you don't want to be focused on Michael, you want to stay focused on you. But your posts are all about Michael...and you only really come into it, for the most part, about your disappointment and resentment about him and his BP.

#2 - You say you and Michael are just friends, only you are not acting like his friend, you are acting like a friend who dreams and hopes and desires more. Now given your past relationship with this man, it is understandable that if you are not going to let go - in the end you will continue to simply live in HOPE, and whenever HOPE seems lost...you will feel like this. And HOPE will inevitably be lost over and over and over again. So sadly, you are getting mad at the wrong person. You have set this up as the pattern and game you are playing since you will not let it go and seemingly move on without him, therefore this will continue to be your results since the reality is this is a man with BP and a LONG way from wellness....and only YOU can change the set up here.

#3 - What you do talk about regarding you is surrounding the holiday with love, as you feel you did, but it was tainted apparently by the issues with your father that came into the picture. So here is the deal...Given the issues you have with your father, don't be surprised when he acts like an insensitive demanding jerk to you...from what you have shared, he rarely, if ever, has been anything else with you. He has always put his needs first above yours, his wants, his expectations....etc. So it is time to let go of what HE wants...YOU did the right thing by saying no to going over for YOU, the fact that he didn't like that is HIS problem - not yours. DO NOT GIVE IT ANOTHER THOUGHT. You go see him only when and if you have the desire to do so and are up to it, and if that is not for another 6 months...SO WHAT! CONTINUE to do what is best for YOU here. It is time you stop protecting his feelings and let him receive the reality of what relationship he grew with you with all his nurturing, love and devotion he showered on you growing up....OH that's right...he didn't really do much did he....so my point is one reaps what they sow don't they! Just let go of the guilt. Remember...He can hand out the guilt...but it is only yours if you accept it. Continue to put YOU first. You will know when you are stable and feeling back in control of you. It will not be like this forever...honestly, it won't. Plus, when you reach wellness for you, and start letting so much of this go, you will have the opportunity to build a new relationship with him...but on YOUR terms this time.

#4 - What you did for Michael's kids was very kind. The ONLY real mistake I feel you made, was that you didn't let Michael be responsible for the state of his own life. And if he couldn't provide for his kids (he could have made them something....he could have "burned them some CD's"....whatever), but HE needed to work it out for himself and you rescued him again. And while you claim to not have wanted anything back, when that is what you got...you got hurt. (Regardless of what he did or didn't do for another person.) So, in the end here, you were not telling the REAL truth to yourself. So, it is time to get honest. It is time to stay focused on what is best for you, as you are seemingly focused on what is best for Michael. If you do this you will most likely find that perhaps Michael is not what is best for you. He is NOT reliable, honest, healthy, committed, fair or understanding. Given how inconsistent he is as a person, let alone "friend"...THE FACT THAT HE IS BP IS IRRELEVANT!...the fact is, it is wasting your opportunity to achieve stable wellness for yourself by days, weeks, months or "god forbid" years! Why are you willing to give up being even one day closer to your own true happiness for a person who does not deserve it, doesn't REALLY see it, and will certainly never TRULY appreciate anything you are so focused on giving him?

My dear Casem, I wish I could say something to shake the pain away. Something that would make it all better. But the fact is, all I can do is support you in doing that for yourself. And I do support that. I DO care. I wish you healthy choices starting in this moment forward. Sunshine and smiles in your future that will not consist of this ying/yang chaos every other minute. Remember always that tomorrow is fresh with no mistakes...it is what you make of it. So make it as wonderful as you can dream it to be...and then do the WORK to get you there. HUGS....LFW

Casem
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 187
   Posted 12/31/2007 8:52 AM (GMT -7)   

Thanks for the loving advice. I expected the direct thoughts...no worries!  That is certainly not the reason that keeps me from posting.....but I have a few questions that linger in my mind following every post (reading and writing)....And I don't mean to sound defensive, but I do have these questions....

I know you are trying to make me feel better, but when you talk about Michael's character....I think it is a bit unfair. How can you differentiate between a character flaw and the symptoms of bipolar disorder or an episode?

Admittedly, I tell one side of the story. I agree...Michael is only thinking of himself and is being selfish. He didn't buy his dad anything, or anyone else in his family, for that matter. He never leaves his sons when he has them, but he left them at his dad's house for an hour to meet this strange woman. That is extremely atypical of Michael - way out of character. Can stress and the holidays be a trigger for an episode? Wouldn't his current situation be considered stressful (holidays, no money, living in dad's basement, not with me, ex-wife just got engaged, have BP)? I am not justifying it, I am only trying to understand it. I would like to think that he is unhealthy, and he may not be stable on the right meds, as he has not kept up with his pdoc or therapist, and this is a very stressful time. Considering the fact that he has been diagnosed as rapid cycling, is his BP really "irrelevant"?  Does he treat me this way because "he is NOT reliable, honest, healthy, committed, fair or understanding" or could it possibly be because he is sick, hurting, and not stable. 

Yes, you may say that the reason does not matter, because I am hurt either way. But the reason matters to me. The reason represents my purpose in the equation. Is it possible that his actions are the actions of someone who is sick and hurting? Or are you honestly saying that the only possibly explanation is that he is a selfish, unappreciative jerk who is using me?

He is further along in accepting and managing his BP than he was 6 months ago. He is taking his meds. He isn't drinking. He participated in an out-patient program. He had another assessment two weeks ago. Now it is in his hands whether he returns for a new pdoc and therapist. His progress may be slow, but it is progress....yes?

You are right. I should've let him figure out x-mas himself. I shouldn't have rescued him by buying gifts for his sons. Sometimes I think with my heart.

Unfortunately, my focus shifts like waves. For weeks, my focus is on me, pure and simple, a beautifully focused balance of me, my diet, exercise, and daily routine of work, friends, and family....with a little of Michael in between. Then the waves crash a little into chaos and I get focused on Michael and his pain and his BP. That is my issue that I need to get better at controlling it. I work at it ever day....and I am getting better at it. I understand that is the most important thing for me......I don't need help with that part.......

I NEED YOUR HELP WITH THIS.......I would love for you guys to understand that I am struggling right now with one of the biggest decisions of my life........my relationship with Michael is important to me.......you don't have to agree with that, but I am asking you to understand it......I don't know what to do......I don't think I want him out of my life just yet....but I don't want to be hurt over and over.....I will make the decision when I am ready....If I decide to go, I will go when I know I need to.......trust me when I tell you that I am strong, capable, independent woman who knows when it is time to go.....

Can you please help me like you help the others......to understand bp and understand the mood swings and what the person may be thinking or feeling....possibly suggesting common bp characteristics or symptoms that you may recognize ........and ways to help him...or when to just back off....ways to help calm the situation or help him when he is hurting......instead of telling me to run.....

 


 
Casem
 


serafena
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 3715
   Posted 12/31/2007 11:18 AM (GMT -7)   
Casem, we're telling you to run, because it's the best thing for you. And I think you really know it.

You want it straight, so here it is: BP is one of Michael's problems, but it isn't his only one. I'm bp, but I don't behave, even in the midst of my most irrational episodes, with the kind of coldness or selfishness that Michael can show you. Coldness and selfishness is not part of bp. That's Michael. The bp only makes these problems worse. The bp makes emotions bigger -- and that's all. So he's especially cold this week: he's seeing other women while you give his kids presents. How cold are you willing to put up with? A little cold? Sorta cold? You see what I mean?

I wish I could put it in a way that makes it seem like you could wait for the symptoms to calm down and he'd be healthy and you two could work it out, but I can't. Because bp is chronic. It's not going away. He's always going to be himself, and the bp is always going to blowing up his unhealthy relationship skills to especially cold levels. If you want to keep riding his roller coaster, naturally, you're a strong, intelligent woman, but mostly you're in love, you'll do as you have to do. But eventually, you will tire of his games. I know you will. It's not the bp that's making him hurt you. It's him. He's just not good enough for you.

serafena
Serafena
Co-Moderator, Bipolar Forum

Bipolar II
It is a melancholy of mine own, compounded of many simples, extracted from many objects, and indeed the sundry contemplation of my travels, in which my often rumination wraps me in a most humorous sadness. -- William Shakespeare


loving frustrated wife
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted 12/31/2007 4:30 PM (GMT -7)   
Casem, I do really understand your feelings. Honestly. The thing is #1, I am not telling you to run. What I am telling you is that if you choose to stay in the situation, don't expect different results. The choice to stay or go is up to you. But, if you stay, then you MUST understand that THIS is exactly how it will be. Has he improved a bit....yes, a little I suppose given the list of things like not drinking and such (although I have to wonder if while he was out with this stranger he had a soda vs. something stronger), but okay...he seemingly did not get rip roaring drunk...and that is a bit better. And yes, he seems to be dabbling in getting help. But the rock solid commitment to his own wellness, his fighting to stay conscious of his actions and how he behaves, his working with everything he has inside to make the right choices for himself....not so much.

Casem, you have to understand that when you sacrifice you for him, and your focus is on him - not you, there will be no ultimate result other than what you have right now. And believe me, it is OKAY to choose this if you want. It is certainly your choice. I do not think ill of you in any way, shape or form. You simply sound like a woman who has loved a man who has turned out to be ill. But much of your pain, I feel, comes from you dreaming of it being different than it is – the moment he MIGHT achieve wellness and responsibility and consciousness about himself and all his good AND bad choices; the moment he would look to you and say “thank you” for helping him through this, standing by him through all the abuse, neglect, and insensitivity he dished out - That you are the woman of his dreams and he will spend his life cherishing you for what you have done for him – supporting him back from the abyss and putting up with so much. This moment my dear MAY or MAY NOT ever come. And even if it does, it may not last for all the reasons that Serafena listed above about how the character issues are not necessarily BP induced. The thing is….when you live in this level of hope, under the circumstances, then you are not living in reality of the present, and how are YOU going to find the happiness and wellness YOU deserve if you don't? Do you follow my logic?

To answer your question about how to act to him during an “episode”, always tell the truth, but don’t engage with him when you see he is in one, do not take seriously too much of what he says or does as a result, learn to let go A LOT, moment by moment as needed with clear boundries for yourself and him. An example I can give is last night for me with H. Originally, my stepmom & her husband were supposed to come over, exchange gifts, visit, and THEN we would go out to dinner. I was told they would be here at 6pm. My H was supposed to have picked up their gift the week before, but for one reason or another it had not gotten accomplished. SO, at 5pm I woke him from a nap and said they would be here in an hour, he needed to get up and get the gift. My H was not feeling great (although he never said anything to me…but apparently I am suppose to know this anyway), so he gets the gift and at the last minute I am told they will be late, so I suggest we meet at the restaurant instead. So, we go out to a casual BBQ place that is way family friendly, we get through dinner and I could see that my step mom didn’t really want to exchange gifts there. So they came here for what all agreed would be a SHORT visit as we arrived here at 9pm approx. By 9:45 we put the twins to bed, and my step mom proceeds to talk and talk, and I don’t want to be rude and say…”okay…time to leave”. Meanwhile, my H is giving me glares. Finally at 10:30pm they go to leave. I then leave my H alone to go to bed, to do whatever he wants…etc, and I go to my computer to check messages quickly before heading to bed as well. I get to bed at approx. 11:30ish. My H is still up and as soon as I get to bed starts criticizing how I didn’t take action to his satisfaction on his queue’s to tell them to leave – we should have just exchanged gifts at the restaurant, he criticizes me for getting him up from his nap before I actually needed to since we didn’t meet them until 6:45, he criticizes me for “keeping him up” and how he doesn’t feel well and wanted to go to bed early…etc. The list of snarls goes on and on. So finally, I step up, tell him enough, he is blaming me for ridiculous things and being over critical for nothing. He then says that given the way I am reacting…it is exactly why he never says anything! Now, my dear…that is the joke of all jokes because I listen to this kind of stuff ALL the time from him. Who holds their tongue SO much of the time is me. But you see, I let it go, because if I engaged with it, it would accelerate and just get worse and worse. So, in the moment, I let him have his say, and then…let it go and move on. Because there is really NO point. He just needed to snarl, criticize and vent for whatever reason he had in that moment and I was the closest excuse he had. Now keep in mind that mixed in with this is a really wonderful guy who can be very considerate and thoughtful….just not consistently. And for some perspective….he would NEVER….EVER….treat me in the ways that you have described Michael behaving towards you.

Now, just a footnote about your behavior with Michael so you see we do have perspective for him too, while you are just his “friend” his treatment is HIS business and not yours. I know you want to support him in wellness, but just as your wellness is for you to do, so to is his. Therefore, I could understand his frustration with you about that. Again, the questioning and inquiring with the level of consistency and involvement you seem to have with it seems to go WAY outside the bounds of just a “friendship”. So maybe that is working against you in more than one way? I know it is hard to step back and let them fall down, but, he is a grown man and it is time he did. If you don’t let him, even as his friend, then you are hurting his chances of really growing up for himself. I know you love him, and you think that the last 3 years of the relationship with you allows you some leeway, but in reality…it shouldn’t. I am not saying not to intervene if it is life or death, but what you are describing is not. And I do not think that Michael is using you BTW, because a person can not get used unless they allow it. So therefore, it is not used, it is taken advantage of, and we are all responsible to prevent that for ourselves, or we have no one to criticize for it but ourselves for allowing it. Make sense?

I wish you well to make healthy choices for you, I wish you continued strength for the days ahead. Demand more for your life and settle for nothing less than you deserve. Just make sure you are demanding it from those who can really give it. Hugs…LFW

Casem
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 187
   Posted 12/31/2007 5:51 PM (GMT -7)   
Unfortunately, when I am angry, I am not the nicest person myself. When I am hurt, I say extremely hurtful, nasty things, that sometimes are hard to recover from. I over react, I freak out, and in the past few days I have said some terrible things to Michael that are way beyond uncalled for. Again, that's usually part of the story I don't tell. This is part of my issue in all of my relationships (not just Michael) and it is something I am working on......but it usually escalates a situation from what could've been a level 3 to a level 20.

I do understand all of your points. As I look back I think I do extend my involvement way beyond friendship, even though I just keep saying "we are just friends". He has suggested several times we talk about our relationship and he would like to be more than friends. I keep saying "No, I don't want to discuss it until you are ready...you are not even close to ready for a healthy, committed relationship." My words say one thing, but I am constantly doing "girlfriend" things and I am sure I am sending mixed messages and I am sure it is confusing for him.....and for me. This confusion, inevitably leads to hurt feelings and arguments. Sometimes I think Michael does things (like meeting this girl) as a reaction to my "we are just friends" stance. I am afraid I am not being fair to either one of us. I have tried so hard to be a friend and be there for him so he isn't alone and he has support, but I might be making things worse for the both of us......
 
Casem
 


loving frustrated wife
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted 1/1/2008 2:56 AM (GMT -7)   
Casem, thank you for your honesty about this. I honestly think you are on to something when you say the situation is fraught with mixed messages sabotaging both of your wellness programs. The thing is, sometimes people can not get well together, they need space to really do that. It doesn't mean that at some point they won't find their way back to each other, but it is like the story of crabs....if you put one crab in an open box without a lid - it will crawl out, if you put two crabs in an open box, you do not need a top because they will prevent each other from crawling out...or in other words...neither will let the other out - they pull each other back down so neither gets out. With both you and Michael struggling so, perhaps you are two crabs in the end, and unless you are in your own boxes, it sabotages you both? Just something to think about. Also, if you have a temper that gets the best of you with your words....that IS something you must get to the root of in order to get a handle on it. No one deserves to be on the receiving end of that kind of wrath. And you shouldn't place yourself in the position to be so regretful all the time. That is simply not good for you. Sometimes self reflection and growth requires focused singular attention. Keep reflecting in this way Casem...this level of honesty seems like a good direction. Also, remember, if you have said something uncalled for, do the right thing and apologize and work to make a mends where you can. In the end it is about what damage you are doing to yourself most of all by spewing venom. It may not take the sting of the words, the damage it causes, or the memory of it away, but at least you will begin to humble yourself to making the situation right because you will then be able to feel a little prouder of yourself for trying to do the right thing. HUGS TO YOU....LFW

loving frustrated wife
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted 1/4/2008 11:53 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Casem, was just thinking about you and wanted to send you some hugs. My good thoughts are with you and hope you are doing better. SUNSHINE for you...LFW

Casem
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 187
   Posted 1/6/2008 7:35 PM (GMT -7)   

Thanks for the sunshine. I really needed it. I am feeling very down this weekend.

I have decided, again, to walk away and leave ALOT of space between Michael and I. It is so hard to do. I know it is what is best right now, but it hurts so much I can't even describe it. I made the decision after an extremely tough day on Friday. We (his dad and I) couldnt find him anywhere. He wouldn't answer any phone calls, his car was in danger of being repo'd, so I finally told his dad that he had been given two weeks off of work. His dad left Michael a VM telling him to come home, he knew about work, etc. Michael called me screaming....." **** you, I am never talking to you again, I trusted you, I can't believe you told my dad". I tied to explain that we were worried about  him, we had no idea where he was, his dad wanted to know.....his dad had been calling his work for days anway..then he proceeded to tell me that he was going to go out with the same girl he me the Sat. after Christmas.  We had that same old conversation.....he wants to try with someone new, someone who hasn't been hurt by him, someone who hasn't been tainted by all of this "stuff". I betrayed him. We fight all the time, I only call and ask about doctors appt. and work and if he paid his car payment, blah, blah, blah. He just wants some calm. I told him that he needed to get stable in order to have some calm, he wasn't going to get that from a woman. I apologized if he felt I betrayed him, but that his dad and I were worried, and he made an agreement with us to get help. It isn't healthy to be driving around all day in the cold just thinking about all of your problems. If he misses one more day of work, he gets a month off, and one more day after that, he gets fired. His car is getting repo'd if he doesn't make a payment and he doesn't have the money...AND ALL HE IS THINKING about IS GOING OUT WITH THIS GIRL. EVeryone keeps telling his dad and I that he needs to hit rock bottom. We aren't making his car payment, we aren't pulling any strings at work. I told him if he wants to go out with this girl....go ahead....but I can no longer sit here and let him treat me with such disrespect and refuse to get the help he needs.

I tried reasoning with him, I tried over and over, like a pyscho, for days and days to call and explain why his behavior for the past few weeks was so unacceptable and wrong. He says its me. I drive him crazy because I push and push. In the next breath, he says he loves me. If he loves me, why hasn't he made any attempt to get help and make ammends for hurting me? If he loves me, why does he still go out there looking for other women? He either STILL isnt' stable because, YES, he HAS NOT followed up with a pdoc or therapist since Laurelwood? or HE IS JUST AN INSENSITIVE, MANIPULATIVE JERK? The answer does matter to me.

My self esteem is battered and beaten. LIke I said before, I go in waves. I have taken the first step AGAIN, by walking away, and saying.....I can't do this anymore....this is your problem, not mine. I am not being treated how I deserve to be treated...I need to take care of me. But I am always left with that lingering question.....do you really love me and you are just sick? or do you just take what I freely give and have no love for me?


 
Casem
 


loving frustrated wife
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 865
   Posted 1/6/2008 9:49 PM (GMT -7)   
Casem, it is so much simpler than you are making my dear. Yes...he is sick. YES...he loves you - it WAS real...it is not a figment of your imagination. Yes...he is behaving like a manipulative jerk. NO....YOU CAN"T SAVE HIM. NO...it is not good for you. YES...you are doing the right thing by letting his fight through his own issues and walking away. YES...HIS LOVE FOR YOU WAS REAL....but he is a VERY sick man who fundamentally is still a child.

I am SO struck as you write, about how much he sounds like a child vs. a grown man with two children. He is acting 16. Do you want a life with a manipulative, adolescent 16 year old. Because it was never clearer than what you just described above. He knows he is ill, and living with his father, but he is hiding the fact that he is suspended from work from him???? Right....and YOU betrayed him by telling the truth...."Okay Betty....gee, don't tell my dad I was the one to dent the fender of the car...gee wiz...don't tell my dad I got detention at school today...he'll be really mad!" BOO-HOO!!!!!!! He is a child who needs to do a tremendous amount of growing up. You, are doing the right thing by letting go. I know it hurts....but Casem....YOU"LL SURVIVE and be okay. Joy is ahead of you if you make a clean break and focus on YOU. At this point, the more you stay in this relationship, it is becoming a symptom of your own un-wellness. YOU can't fix him. YOU...need to do that for yourself, and let him do the same.

The fact is, this is not a man you could ever really trust again after all the crappy ways he has behaved. It wasn't one incident, then he got help, and you two are working your issues out. He is fundamentally immature. I have a sister like this and all you can do is let go and move on. It is sad, but true. So, the cleaner the break, the quicker you will mourn and heal. The more you linger the holding on....the more clean up YOU have to do, and the more damage you do to yourself in the end. You end up ashamed that you tried so hard alone...I speak from experience here. It is harder to clean that up, then to let go and just walk away. I have done it both ways...so I know. And the one where I walked away with dignity, years later we came back into each others lives as friends and he has now been my friend for almost 28 years. And I am friends with his wife who is a lovely person. The other one....I did such damage to myself from that I ended up not dating and was in a LOT of therapy for 3 years over. And much of that was about repairing the self esteem I lost in the process because I didn't hold myself as deserving better, and I lost my dignity in how I held on, and what compromises I had to make to do so, and things I said and did that just really weren't honoring me. So, you can learn from me or not. It is YOUR choice. But, there will be NO good ending as it is. Think about it this way....when you let go the first time, you were okay...it led you to begin help for yourself, but you let yourself get sucked back in and now look at how messy it has become and how much you have behaved in unflattering ways that you are not happy with. That is what I am talking about. This is not a mature relationship, and you are a mature woman who deserves her dignity.

So, to the fact that you have chosen to let go again....I can only say....take it all the way to wellness this time baby!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! When you get far enough away from it, there will come a day that you will turn around and be so grateful it is over, and you'll KNOW you never want THAT back with him again...you'll see it clearly, right now you can't, your heart is hurting too much and I understand that. I have seen it over and over again in others. So, work your program. Grieve what you need to, and find your true joy...YOUR LIFE AWAITS YOU! And it is bright my dear, it is BRIGHT if YOU make it that way...... Many hugs, LFW
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