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Candy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 1294
   Posted 3/15/2006 5:29 AM (GMT -7)   
Peter:
 
I have been very upset by the posting about Denise in Wales.  I came to the board this morning to see if anything else was being said and not to my surprise I find it gone.  Now I am even more upset.  This board seems to find it very easy to delete.  I have said many times that we are adults and should be able to handle ourselves appropriately.  I can only hope that my eyes just aren't working very well this morning and I missed the posting.  If it is truly gone than someone, once again, made the choice to treat us like children. 
 
Candy
Two are better than one, because they have a good return for their work: if one falls down, his friend can help him up.  Ecclesiastes 4:9-10
 


FRANKEE
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 5
   Posted 3/15/2006 9:45 AM (GMT -7)   
Candy:

If you have any questions regarding Denise Rowles, please Email me at joannewood2006@aol.com. I realise this is upsetting to genuine forum members but Denise is well and truly alive, has never had breast cancer or indeed had a stroke. She lives in Cwmbran, S. Wales with her 3 children. I have read through past posts including her 'death' and 'Obituary' with utter shock and disbelief. This matter is close to my heart as my brother is in the process of a divorce from her and is most distressed as this website was only accessed 'by accident' and had no idea of these hideous fabrications.

FRANKEE

Admin
Forum Administrator


Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 9658
   Posted 3/15/2006 10:06 AM (GMT -7)   
I removed my original post because it was obviously very emotionally upsetting to members and because I honestly could not verify whether it was true or not. I also felt like I was being attacked for being the messenger. I was only passing on information I had been sent, by the above person and others. I wonder if there are possibly 2 people with the same name in the same area... but perhaps we'll never know. Candy, I am just as upset about this as you are.... I suggest you ask this "FRANKEE" for some verifiable facts, because I haven't received any.

I don't know if the claim by FRANKEE is true or not, but I do know there have been cases of "Munchausen by Internet", which we have seen on the HW forums before.... and may help you identify better if someone is who they say they are going forward.  I ask all moderators to read this article because it can be very helpful:

http://www.selfhelpmagazine.com/articles/chronic/faking.html


Peter Waite, Founder/Editor
HealingWell.com - Community, Information, Resources
www.healingwell.com

Post Edited (Admin) : 3/15/2006 10:29:51 AM (GMT-7)


coopfesta
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2003
Total Posts : 1373
   Posted 3/15/2006 10:10 AM (GMT -7)   
I am very distressed about this whole thing.  I had actually seen and spent time with our (ex?)member from California and went through chemo and rads just days apart from her, emailing her back and forth every day while I was in treatment.  We went through this together.  I spent New Year's night at her lifelong friend's home (2004) with her near boston, and got to know her and her close friends.  I have not heard from her since hearing something about someone accusing her of making up Denise and that that person, who I met at a gathering and who continues to email me at times, was kicked off this site because she accused her of fabricating.  I am very confused.  I do not know what is going on and would like to know what the truth is and who said what.  Please enlighten me.  If my personal experience with someone while being treated for breast cancer was based on a lie or if she was really doing something to lure us into being sympathetic towards someone ficticious, I'd really like to know.
 
MK, I know you, and I'd believe what you say.  Please set the record straight IN THIS POST.
 
 
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." -Confucius

Ellen


gma
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 2921
   Posted 3/15/2006 10:55 AM (GMT -7)   
Here is my take on this subject. No one knows for sure who Denise is or was. No one knows for sure who Frankee is. No one knows for sure if Denise's mother was her mother. We meet people on internet forums and believe them until they do something that might seem questionable. Then some of us begin to have doubts whether the story is straight or not.

I also talked to Denise on the phone, she sent me pictures of her family including her husband before he began to "beat her", "stalk her" and break into her home? She sent me to the Wales Chorus website where he was supposedly a member and she seemed quite proud of that fact. Many questioned the fact that she spent so much time on the computer with small children. The seizures she had that made her fall down stairs, break bones, end up in the hospital for a few hours and then be home again were perplexing to me. Maybe that is how things are done in Wales, who knows? The obituary was not an obituary from a newspaper, it was written by her mother???? But was her mother, her mother? She had supposedly gone through two heart attacks and was near death and then was well enough to take care of Denise and communicate with several board members.

I never heard any mention of the fact that Rita had made her up. I know that Rita cared deeply and worried about her and I supposed Rita quit the board because of Denise's death. I certainly had no idea anyone had made such an accusation against Rita and it makes me sad to think she had to deal with that, too.

Personally after this long, I don't know why we are revisiting the whole thing. Peter got information which he felt might be something we needed to know and shared it. He certainly does not deserve to be raked over the coals because someone believes Denise was not fraudulant. Believe me there were more who felt she was than felt she wasn't. If she was and you believed in her, so what nothing has changed as far as your beliefs are concerned? If she wasn't fraudulant and you believe in her, she is gone and won't be back. There is nothing you can do. I think the whole thing should be dropped and forgotten. And this is the type of post I would like to delete because it solves no problems only causes more of them.

The two people I know of that have been banned from the breast cancer forum were banned because of problems with multiple names and had nothing to do with Denise. The multiple names were found by using the ISP address. Not personality decisions.

So Frankee what is your goal here? As far as we are concerned Denise is gone. To my knowledge she received no great sum of money from anyone. She was sent cards and small gifts. So if you are hoping for some information to build a case you will not find anything from here. I suggest you give Denise our good wishes the next time you see her and forget about us. We can take care of ourselves and if another Denise comes along there will be some who believe and some who question.

Mary K.


FRANKEE
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 5
   Posted 3/15/2006 11:07 AM (GMT -7)   
Could we possibly be talking about 2 different people? I will try to verify the 'Denise' who's death and obituary was posted on 7/22/2005. The post noted Denises death from a stroke and printed her address in case anyone wished to send cards this was 16 Tern Court, Cwmbran, she still lives there. Her mothers name is Pam and she has a sister named Beth. She has 3 children Dion, Tegan and FFion who were all named on her 'Obituary' Her birthday is 01 Nov and her age was noted. All of the above details were posted on the site which lead me to beleive that this really is the person I know. Further verification takes the form of her obituary which reads:
Rowles
Denise Alison
Peacefully after a brave fight against cancer on 20th July 2005 at Abergavenny Hospital. Denise aged 33 years of Cwmbran. Dearly loved eldest daughter of Pam. Much loved mammy of Dion, Tegan and Ffion. Loved sister of Beth, Wayne and Owain. Memorial service Monday 25th 2005 at 12.30 at Park Street New Life Church, Blaenavon followed by a cremation at 2pm.

The above was posted on 7/11/2005. I realise that this is deeply distressing and would like to apologise if the 'Denise' noted above has been mistaken for another Denise. I hope the above will verify this.

Desertdreaming
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 319
   Posted 3/15/2006 11:11 AM (GMT -7)   

Well said Mary Kay.

 


Annette
We have done enough "racing for the Cure"
 
 Just give us the cure already


debbiR
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 730
   Posted 3/15/2006 11:50 AM (GMT -7)   

I have to agree that I don't believe that Peter deserves to be raked over the coals for what he posted or what post he deleted. Yes, we are all adults and should be able to decide what we believe and what we don't believe. I was one of the members that emailed back and forth w/ "Pam". For some reason, things just weren't making sense to me. So, it was my decision, and no one else's, to stop corresponding w/ her.

I believe that anyone that would make up a story about having breast cancer (or any other disease) has a real mental problem. I don't know if Denise is real or not. It doesn't matter. It is a personal choice as to what each of us wants to believe.

What bothers me is that someone would post on this board to get evidence to use in court and, as a result, cause such an uproar. We are here to support each other and the new ladies that come to us looking for answers, love and support. I hope that we can continue to focus on the real purpose of this forum and let "Frankee" and the rest of this be something of the past.

Deb


 


Candy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 1294
   Posted 3/15/2006 12:11 PM (GMT -7)   

Peter and All:

I am sorry if I sounded like I blamed you Peter.  I know that you are as upset.  You take very good care of the board.  I have to admit that I am heartbroken over the possibilities of fraud.  I loved "Denise" and I was saddened by her death.  Deb and the others are correct, we must concentrate of what this board is all about

Thank you for setting me straight.  I do not know what I would do without the ladies, my friends, on this board.

Blessings,

Candy


Two are better than one, because they have a good return for their work: if one falls down, his friend can help him up.  Ecclesiastes 4:9-10
 


Cathi
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 702
   Posted 3/15/2006 1:25 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi

I was one of the ladies who questioned Denise's reality..I never thought she was a real person. Things just didnt make sense. I felt bad for Rita and Gail and Candy & the others who felt Heartbroken at every painful turn in the road.
They were devastated at the news of her death. I never said anything to Denise or posted to her. I chose to ignore her. Even at the news of her death, I didnt respond. People can be so cruel, but to do what
she did   at this board where women are fighting for their life is horrible. If it is true, shame on her. Several of my close friends on this board agreed with me and handled it the same way. I Dont know if how I handled things was right or wrong..but that is what I did.

Also, Peter did nothing wrong...his intentions with us and the Healing Well Community has only been loving and caring. Peter, Thanks for everything that you do for us. I may disagree with the way things were handled with the 2 ladies who were banned....but we are allowed to have different opinions. I will never believe that the 2 banned ladies did anything wrong.

It seems like some people are upset that peter posted and then got upset because he removed it...I am getting confused.
We cant have it both ways. confused

Well friends, let's try & put this behind us..It does happen once in a while. Some of the old long standing members, do you remember the Tom & Bree fiasco ???

Love and Hugs,

Cathi


Sometimes it is a slender thread, Sometimes a strong,
stout rope; She clings to one end, I the other;
She calls it friendship; I call it hope....

Post Edited (Cathi) : 3/15/2006 1:34:44 PM (GMT-7)


Survivor1965
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 3/15/2006 1:33 PM (GMT -7)   
I have to agree that this is very perplexing, and I agree with MK that this IS the sort of thread that is better off deleted. Some things are just ugly. It is not that anyone here made it ugly, Peter included. It is just that it IS ugly. Whether Denise was real or Denise is someone with Munchausen's By Internet (good name), well, we may never know. And there are many things we will never know. If you watch Lost on ABC, you will know what I mean. Ha. Some things just may never be known. The best thing we can do is remember what we remember about Denise and hope that we were never and will never be defrauded, and that if we were or or, it is only because we were decent enough to open our hearts. And that should never be regretted.

I still believe that it might have been better for Peter to not publicize any of this until and unless he knew for a fact that Denise was a fraud. Bygones. I hope this thread gets deleted.

Survivor

coopfesta
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2003
Total Posts : 1373
   Posted 3/15/2006 2:21 PM (GMT -7)   
I wasn't really aware of the total story about Denise being a fraud.  A major issue for me was that I was in the dark about Rita's role in it.  I'm not sure if this was because I didn't read enough posts during the time people became unsure of Denise's problems or if the relavent posts were deleted at that time.  
 
If it was because relavent posts were deleted, Peter, I am not going to chastize you for deleting posts that you thought may be potentially damaging to our sensitive sisters.  I'm sure your intentions were good.  If I really wanted to know what was going on, I could have emailed MK and asked about it when I had heard sketches about it.  Instead, I decided to leave well enough alone because I didn't want to find out that RITA had Munchausen's by proxy by internet, which is what I was really afraid of.  I was actually afraid that Rita had made up Denise, and didn't want to go there at all.  I let her go, and didn't try too hard to get in touch with her because I was really worried about my own psychological well being if it turned out she was doing this.  That would have been the most damaging to me, given how I depended on her during my treatment, and all I was going through during the time of these suspicions.  Now that I am becoming aware that Denise is suspected of having munchausen's by internet, I am more concerned about Rita's reactions to her than I was before.  Rita was someone who I was concerned was obsessing on someone else's insurmountable problems because she couldn't look at her own depression, which was in and of itself very disabling.  Rita's friend, Mo and I both were aware of Rita's depression and discussed it with her.  She wasn't suicidal, but very depressed and she was trying to deal with it.  Now that I'm reading about suspicions about Denise, I am EXTREMELY angered that someone may have been capitalizing on Rita's sensitivity and heart, which happens to be the size of Texas. 
 
I think I'm going to call Rita and talk to her. 
 
I have to thank you guys for bringing this up again.  I was not able to deal with any of this when it was happening.  MK, it's good that it's been re-hashed, for me anyway.
 
 


"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." -Confucius

Ellen

Post Edited (coopfesta) : 3/16/2006 11:14:09 AM (GMT-7)


Jo-Ann
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 829
   Posted 3/15/2006 5:47 PM (GMT -7)   
After reading all of these posts, I am truly saddened. In order for us to survive as a group, we must take members at face value and not question every little thing. If any can remember, I posted a lot about what I went through in my two-year fight and if I had just posted all of it as I was going through it, I am sure there would be non-believers.

I am also stunned that Rita no longer posts because she was accused of "making up" Denise. I hope that if Rita reads this, she will give us a second chance. I don't anymore believe she made her up than I believe in the Easter bunny and shame on me for not knowing what had happened.

I don't think Peter should have deleted the post either. It appears to be back and I have answered it. I also defend Peter's reason, he really does watch over us. He has saved us from more than most of us know. I just don't think that this forum needs such a negative post and we should be able to answer it.

We are a sisterhood united by faith in each other. If the faith is betrayed, we're big girls and can just jump back into the support of all of our other sisters. We're all united by a deadly disease and have better things to care about. Let's go back to the caring and support.

Love, Jo-Ann
A good friend will bail you out of jail...
but a true friend will be sitting
next to you saying,
"Dâmn... that was fun!".


FRANKEE
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 5
   Posted 3/16/2006 9:39 AM (GMT -7)   

Thankyou to everyone who replied to this post.  I would like you to understand why this distressing topic was posted on the forum.  Sometimes desperate times require desperate measures and I debated for a while whether to 'dig up the past' and inform members that Denise is still alive, this is because she has caused so much distress to a lot of people and is still at large now.  My belief is that everyone deserves to know the truth whether it be good or bad.  I ask for your understanding on this matter and hold you all in the highest regard and respect for what you have been and are still going through.

I will carry on in my quest to bring this evil individual to justice and once again thank you for your veiws on this, also thank Peter for displaying these posts.

Goodbye and good luck to you all

FRANKEE


Luci
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 892
   Posted 3/16/2006 10:20 AM (GMT -7)   

Gosh, I haven't been on this board in weeks.  My eyes are popping at what I've read here re: "Denise."  IMHO, we should take MK and Cathi's advice and just let it go.

There will be some of us who can't let it be.  For those of you who feel that way, just one thought.  Perhaps "Denise" is not gone, but is now posting as "Frankee".  Do we really want to read about  Denise/Frankee every day for months??  Not me and I'm willing to bet, not most of you.  So let's ignore her/them and get on with our real goal here; to support each other through this miserable journey.

More later, Luci


In the depth of winter, I finally learned that within me lay an invincible summer.  Albert Camus


coopfesta
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2003
Total Posts : 1373
   Posted 3/16/2006 11:28 AM (GMT -7)   
This thing is so convoluted, I re-read what I last wrote and the last part about the heart the size of Texas was meant to be about Rita, not Denise.  I may have led people to believe that I wasn't going to let something go, that my talking about geing grateful for re-hashing it was going to prolong something.  I am not trying to do that.  I was happy not to think that Rita was doing something wrong anymore, and thought I should try to talk to her.  That suspicion had been tearing me up inside.  I've decided, too, to let it go and not make any phone calls.  I wasn't the one who stopped communicating with Rita, she faded away from me0 and I did try to get hold of her months ago.  She has not wanted contact and I will respect that.  Apologizing to her for suspecting her of something as nasty as this would hurt her terribly if she had no idea that I or anyone else had done so.  I don't know if anyone else thought she made it up, I don't remember if it was my thought or if it was implied by someone else, frankly.  I'm very very sorry to have suspected Rita of something.  The whole idea of Denise not being real was and is so disturbing to me.   I am definately a damaged party in this, and angry, as she was posting and communicating with me around the time I was going through treatment and bad post-treatment traumas.  I started to feel some guilt that I didn't look for Rita's number last night like I said I was going to.  I'm glad I didn't now.  I'm just going to not do anything. 
 
I hate this feeling of being so disillusioned, hurt and tricked.  We were being sympathetic, sweet, and vulnerable.  Lori and Rita were talking about going to Wales.  I just don't know what to say.  I don't know if Lori still talks to Rita or not, but if she does, please don't tell her that I suspected her of this, please.  I don't want to hurt her.  I was very confused and upset.
"Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in rising every time we fall." -Confucius

Ellen


Tavish
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2003
Total Posts : 2272
   Posted 3/16/2006 11:35 AM (GMT -7)   
Not Lori...I am not sure I believed in Denise either...I found way to many holes in the story to be credible. I was certainly not talking about going to Wales nor have I ever spoken to Rita.

As for all the hullaballoo here,.....folks believe what you want to believe and remember there are a lot of disturbed people out there. Interesting, Munchausen by Internet,....a new psychiatric disorder in the making. We seem to have no proof either way in this case, so take it for face value. Let it go, let's move on....

Lori

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