Black Mold and being sick...

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Freya
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 164
   Posted 6/10/2008 4:19 AM (GMT -6)   
My hubby and I have had black mold in our bathroom which has absolutly no ventilation. We live in this huge mansion built in 1850 which is sectioned off into "apartments"
Every other person who lives here has mold in there bathroom also.
Most of them were painted over as ours was.
I have been getting headaches daily, itching whenever I go into the bathroom and have a rash that no one has identified yet. Most of these things for 3 years.  I never put them all together as maybe happening from the mold until an assesor came in. I always thought they were symotoms of taking narcotics or of having numerous medical conditions.
Everyone that moves in here gets sick. Infact I didnt even get sick until 3 months after we moved in here. I was so healthy before.
 
 Now, I think it would be digging extreamly deep to say my chronic baldder disease was caused by black mold but what if this stuff has been really doing a number on my body increasing my pain. Maybe I wouldnt be as ill.
 I heard it was a myth that black mold was dangerous and only orange(or whatever color) was the dangerous one.
     We run the airco all the time(except winter) so it stays dry in the whole rest of the house. We have really high ceilings and tons of windows so its venilated throughout. Except for the bathroom which is very tiny and no ventilation. The mold is coveerd by paint but I'm not sure that makes a difference.
 
Does anyone have an opinion on this? Could this make someone sick which would make pain worse?
  In suffering, we are given the key to a door which most rarely 
      get to open.  Behind it lies the ultimate gift which is only visible
                             in our darkest hour.
                                True strength.


nvrthesame98
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Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 4416
   Posted 6/10/2008 4:39 AM (GMT -6)   
Hi Freya! My family and I were exposed to black mold in a house we were living in several years ago and didnt realize it was even there. It likewise was painted over by a landlord whom was aware that it was there and didnt feel sharing that info was important. When my grandaughter was born and shortly after coming home developed severe asthma and my then 5 year old also had suddenly developed asthma and I was hospitalized twice during 5 months for bronchitis we began looking for a reason and lo and behold we found it!

I have no idea as to whether or not it can cause increases in pain levels but it can and does cause some major respitory problems.

Your local health department can assist you in your search for knowledge as well as the building and code inspectors in your town and FEMA has a hotline that has a wealth of knowledgeable folks that can answer any questions you may have. I do want to add when you alert these folks about your building and if they come out and test the mold and find it to be one of the harmful ones they will evacuate the building and sometimes depending on the test results immediately so be prepared to have some place to go before you make the call.

If you just want info the internet is a wealth of info and you should be able to find what you need doing a google search.

Luck to you!
NVR
 
Bilateral knee replacements,spondylosis of L-3,4,5 and S-1, osteoarthritis,premenopausal migraines.
 
Meds: Methadone,xanax,zanaflex,maxide,prempro,K+,indocin,lexapro,neurontin(coming off) lyrica(going onto)
 
 


Chutz
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Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 9090
   Posted 6/10/2008 10:06 AM (GMT -6)   
Great info NVR! The Red Cross is available to help with a place to live if you have to evacuate. But you really do need to get out of there no matter what course of action you take.

Good luck,
Chutzie
Co-Mod Fibromyalgia & Chronic Pain Forums
~~~
Fibromyalgia, Ulcerative Colitis, Insulin dependent diabetic, collapsed disk, dermatitis herpetiformus, osteo arthritis in spine and other locations.
***************

The only difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has it's limits. Albert Einstein: (1879-1955)


Freya
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 164
   Posted 6/10/2008 11:56 AM (GMT -6)   
Thank you NVR, That is great info. I'm pretty sure the headaches and itching are from the mold and sometimes I do feel like I cant breath. I sleep near the bathroom because of my condition.

We have decided to have someon come out and test for it and see how far it's gone.
Who knows what is in this house. It's gorgeous and a shame no one took care of it when they found it and just painted over it. The man who built it is probably rolling over in his grave.
If it's gone as far as being in the walls...we'll it would just be too much for anyone who doesnt have a few million laying around to fix.

I'm sorry NVR that your family was exposed to the bad black mold. I'm glad you did discover it although they tried to cover it up. I know how angry you must have been when you found out someone risked your health like that. The people that own the house are denying it's here. But we know they know.

Thanks again that's great info!

Feya
  In suffering, we are given the key to a door which most rarely 
      get to open.  Behind it lies the ultimate gift which is only visible
                             in our darkest hour.
                                True strength.


hopeisreal
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 345
   Posted 6/10/2008 2:19 PM (GMT -6)   
Is there any way you can move? YIKEs--sorry to hear about this!

SJH
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 87
   Posted 6/10/2008 2:31 PM (GMT -6)   
Yeah don't they have regulations on that kind of thing? I mean it's known to cause serious harm and health issues... what's the deal with your property management?

Morgoth
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 177
   Posted 6/10/2008 4:10 PM (GMT -6)   
As NVR pointed out black mold (and other mold as well) can and in the end do cause respiratory problems. The mold, or better said its spores will enter the blood stream through the lungs and eventually reach a toxic level that can cause all kinds of medical issues.

Unfortunately, the only way to, possibly, get rid of it (apart from moving) is a special treatment of the entire mansion. Treating just one appartment is pointless. This is obviously a job for the landlord or if you're the owner, for the entire mansion community to address.

Unfortunately what you do is almost the worst thing possible: keep it dry and ventilate. Dry mold releases more spores than moist mold and the more you ventilate or use the airco, the more these spores will infest your appartment and your lungs! It's like kicking up dust. You can't get rid of the mold by reducing the humidity unless the basic source has been removed (in this case I suppose an infestation of the entire mansion). If and when the mold has been completely removed, then and only then should the humidity level be brought down to prevent any mold from re-appearing.

I won't lie to you, the chance of effectively getting rid of the mold in the near future is small unless you have government and/or professional assistance.

If possible, I should seriously consider moving.

Keep us posted will you.
To stand and be still at the Birkenhead Drill is a mighty bullet to shew.


Freya
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 164
   Posted 6/11/2008 12:38 AM (GMT -6)   
That is scary stuff!
 
  We defenitly could move if need be. It's not the preferred situation.  But of course if it is the dangerous kind of mold, we wouldnt want to be here anyway. Your then actually paying to get ill! And moving would then be worth all the money in the bank.
   I think were going to wait and see if it is the dangerous kind. It's going to be done very soon as our neighbors are trying to buy the house and the owner wants to get rid of it asap...gee wonder why??
We couldnt move for a few weeks to a month anyway because my hubby doesnt get vacation time in the way most people do. And being sick I certainly cant do it by myself.
 My main concern in that my neighbor is due any day and they are of course taking the baby back home. A few people have had babies while living here.
 
 I defenitly want to turn off the AC after reading your reply Margoth but in New York right now its so incredibly hot and my medication makes me feel very ill if my body gets over heated.
 
Thank you everyone for your replies. I'll keep everyone up to date. It makes me so sick to  think my husbamd and I are breathing spores into our lungs which are flowing through our blood stream. If this rash is from the mold than I guess it's aleady in my system.
 
Thanks Again!
 
Freya
 
  In suffering, we are given the key to a door which most rarely 
      get to open.  Behind it lies the ultimate gift which is only visible
                             in our darkest hour.
                                True strength.


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 6/11/2008 12:45 AM (GMT -6)   
Freya,
Do prepare yourself that as someone mentioned if mold is found - and I'm not sure how much or to what degree - the health dept. can for an evacuation. An immediate one. Also there are laws (I'm not sure if they are state or federal but I'm guessing federal as it's so related to health) that one has to disclose things like mold if you know it's there when you sell a house. My hunch is the owner may be trying to hide it, as they did by painting it over. The owner would likely be forced to repair the mold - an expensive proposition - before selling. That's some leverage you have if you don't own but are renters.

Still, be prepared for even a temporary relocation. In such an older mansion, my guess is repairs not only could be very costly, but could take quite a bit of time.

Here's hoping it's a false alarm of some sort! Good luck!

PaLady

nvrthesame98
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 4416
   Posted 6/11/2008 6:00 AM (GMT -6)   

STOP them from bringing that baby there and it has been questioned in past study whether it could directly related to SIDS! Have them contact the Red Cross as Chutz said or even call FEMA like I said. Better to be safe then risk the baby by any means.

If you can prove they meaning the landlord knew and were trying to pass a cover-up then they have to legally back with money your moving expenses as well as can be help liable for your health costs associated with the mold and the best way to find this out? Run down the previous tenants that lived there as they would know whether it was growing there when they lived there and that they may have even gone so far as telling the landord in my case that is exactly why they moved and he was cited and told to clean it up and even gave them the bill that he paid someone to do it all which was faked by a relative of his. If they knew it was there and painted over it without having anyone investigate what kinds of mold it was they can be held responsible and should be. It is very expensive to get rid of and some cases far more to treat then to demolish and rebuild depending on whether it is in the walls or not.

First and foremost try to talk to your neighbors about the baby and even alert the health department about the baby being brought home soon.

Good luck


NVR
 
Bilateral knee replacements,spondylosis of L-3,4,5 and S-1, osteoarthritis,premenopausal migraines.
 
Meds: Methadone,xanax,zanaflex,maxide,prempro,K+,indocin,lexapro,neurontin(coming off) lyrica(going onto)
 
 


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 6/11/2008 12:42 PM (GMT -6)   
Nvr - Interesting. I didn't know the connection to SIDS! Thanks!

PaLady

nvrthesame98
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 4416
   Posted 6/12/2008 3:43 AM (GMT -6)   

PAlady it was in a study I read a few years back along with the pesticide most of the exterminators use that has no smell? They came out with about 12 or 15 years ago and therefore alot of folks living in apartment communities didnt know when the management had had the exterminator there while they were away during the day and how there was a high incident of babies under the age of 6 weeks that had died of SIDS in apartment living and they were trying to find a common denominator and this was the only one they could find. They then required the management or the exterminator to notify the tenents before spraying so they could make arrangements if they had a child under that age limit as well as birds and such to go elsewhere for 12 hours and to air out before staying there.

They could never prove what actually was in it and if anything was causing it but it was too close for comfort and the numbers were far to high to ignore I would think. I know I wouldnt risk it but you would be surprised how many folks did and do. My Brother worked for a local exterminator for awhile during his college years and they always asked folks with newborns to leave the premises and stay away for a bit and he said you would be stunned by those who didnt adhere to the request.

The same article also said the numbers of households bearing some types of molds had higher then norm incidents of sids as well but again they couldnt make a direct link as these post mortems in those babies never show anything out of the norm in lab ranges.

Anyway I would want someone to alert me for sure as it wouldnt be worth the risk in any way.

Hoping they get it cleaned up and make the landlord own up to his responsibility in it if he did cover it up. I cant imagine someone painting over it without even cleaning it up first but hey its all about a dollar to some of them.

 


NVR
 
Bilateral knee replacements,spondylosis of L-3,4,5 and S-1, osteoarthritis,premenopausal migraines.
 
Meds: Methadone,xanax,zanaflex,maxide,prempro,K+,indocin,lexapro,neurontin(coming off) lyrica(going onto)
 
 


Freya
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 164
   Posted 6/12/2008 4:00 AM (GMT -6)   
It's unfortunitly too late to warn them. she went into labor before I saw them and wont be coming back until there ready.
The owner I know was never sited for the mold. He passed away last year which is why his wife wants to sell the house. The mold has been here for ages but no one really knew about what could happen or what it ment until now.
I just cant call the health dept. I want to. But that would mean that people might have to evacuate without a place to go and without the money to afford it. They most likely would have to provide financial support if we got evacuated but it may be a reimbursment type of thing until it got worked out.

There is going to be somone coming to determine what mold it is and if they say to get out then of course we all will. But the fact that everyone knows and were all adults means that they can leave if they want and my forcing that to happen could put people in a bad situation.
I will tell my neighbors as soon as I am able. I wouldnt dare contact them until I know for sure that the labor is over and they have had time to bond with there baby in the hospital.

Thank you all for your relplies. It has helped me better prepared for what may happen when the person comes to determine what kind of mold it is and how far it's gone.
As much as I want to I just cant take the decision into my own hands as of right now.

Freya
  In suffering, we are given the key to a door which most rarely 
      get to open.  Behind it lies the ultimate gift which is only visible
                             in our darkest hour.
                                True strength.


nvrthesame98
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 4416
   Posted 6/13/2008 3:14 AM (GMT -6)   
Exactly Bonnie! That is how it works and we did the same thing and I guess the reason so many folks cant figure out what is going on with them. I would be sick forever and then when I got out of the house for a few days I would have almost a immediate recovery. They hospitalized my grandaughter twice and both times by the time she was in there and they started to run test she was fine. When I think back now what could have happened to her I just cringe.

From everything I read it isnt something that happens overnight Freya and it might take years for you to become so sick to the point of no return but the damage to your lungs would already be done. So moving is a thing to work on and make sure you get plenty of fresh air if at all possible. The folks coming to assist you with the type will be able to tell you more and not all mold is bad of course and certainly not all of it can be fatal but all of it can and does cause respitory problems in folks who have a mold allergy anyway.

Babies I guess have more problems since their lung developement is not great for awhile as well as their small surface area of their bodies and how fast the mold can invade,some it takes years to grow.

Good luck to you all and as for the moving expenses those usually are covered under FEMA or the Red Cross and they will both send you immediatly to a motel until other arrangements can be made. The local building inspectors are the only ones that usually dont have funds at hand to be much help but will still post a notice to vacate.
NVR
 
Bilateral knee replacements,spondylosis of L-3,4,5 and S-1, osteoarthritis,premenopausal migraines.
 
Meds: Methadone,xanax,zanaflex,maxide,prempro,K+,indocin,lexapro,neurontin(coming off) lyrica(going onto)
 
 


Pamela Neckpain
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 1821
   Posted 6/14/2008 12:32 PM (GMT -6)   
Freya,
Black mold can make you real sick (as far as I've heard) Landlords & ladies don't like to fix it cuz it's real expensive. I apologize for saying what has probably already been said -- I gotta leave 'puter now. (Neckpain, yanno?)
I will come back and read responses later.
Pamela Neckpain
Keep the lights on in the bathroom. Mold grows in the dark. Do you have a ceiling fan. It must be a law to have one! A counter fan probably wouldn't hurt either. Is your bathroom GFI protected?

Freya
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 164
   Posted 6/15/2008 1:42 AM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for the suggestion..I knew mold grows in dark damp places but didnt even consider that.
Because I am afraid of the dark(sad isnt it) I keep the bathroom light on all night and there is an inside "window" facing an outside room that gets alot of light during the day. Maybe keeping the outside rooms cool with the AC and constant light has helped in the mold not growing back through the paint?
But no we have absolutly no means for ventelation in the bathroom other than leaving the door open when the shower is running, which we never do. It's too small to put a fan into but we can get a small fan which is another thing I didnt even think of...I love this forum. Everyone is so knowlegable:)

Guess I wont know for a few days yet. But at least there is one positive thing coming from being afraid of the dark(gosh, everytime I put that in balck and white I feel so silly)

Freya
  In suffering, we are given the key to a door which most rarely 
      get to open.  Behind it lies the ultimate gift which is only visible
                             in our darkest hour.
                                True strength.


jlcharger
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 11/18/2009 11:26 AM (GMT -6)   
  well....painting over mold is just giving the mold some tasty food...yes thats right , food.  even bleach will not stop it. go to mr. fry's website...moldinspector.com... the only legal thing to use is boric acid. do not depend on the CDC or any other gov.agency as they do not know what either. they will recomend to use a bleach solution...if they do...get them out as this will only delay the mold for no more than 2 weeks tops. after then the mold will return in full force.  be very warry of mold remediators as they often make things worse than before they arrive.  my wife and i are ill from mold and we have spent thousands of dollars for testing and lab reports only to find out that doctors in general will do nothing as they believe that mold can not hurt you. yes this is true,mold can not hurt you...ah, but the mycotoxins that the mold produces is extremely harmful. it is speculated among some medical scientists that mold can cause many ailments like all known cancers,sids.parkingsons,ms,diabetes..................................the lists continues to go. mold is more dangerous than hiv/aids. some toxins from molds are known as the deadlyist substance know to man...they even make weapons with it.

ReactiveConstellationNE
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 256
   Posted 11/22/2010 3:52 AM (GMT -6)   
In my experience with mold, the only solution (other than moving!) is controlling humidity and cleaning up the mold as best you can. The only thing that allows severe mold infestations to grow is an ongoing high humidity problem (and other moisture sources, even if the air in the building isn't itself severely humid...surfaces or contained spaces like the insides of walls that are constantly moist are sufficient). Initial reduction of humidity will in fact cause a temporary increase in spore release, but in the long run it will prevent those spores from becoming active fungi.

If you must continue to live in the space -- honestly, the best solution is to move to a healthier environment, like I did with my family when we made the mistake of trusting a large apartment complex mgmt co. to maintain a healthy environment (in a Disabled-specific apartment, knowing full well that I have a highly reactive auto-immune disease which makes me sicker when I'm exposed to even slight immune insults like infections or allergens, no less!)--then my suggestion is to do what you can to mitigate your exposure (respirator masks can at least cut down the spore counts you're breathing in, for example, and try to spend as much time out of the home as possible) while that initial spore release spike passes, and get the humidity down in the building to no more than 30%.

Long term, as long as you keep it below 50% that should be sufficient to prevent a major problem, but since the general air number can be much lower than the humidity in places like underneath your carpets, inside your walls, under your bathroom sink, behind your kitchen cabinets, etc....the lower the better, within reason with regards to your comfort (humidity below 35% tends to be quite uncomfortable, causing skin irritation/peeling, cracked lips, and so on).

Keeping the place clean will give the spores less places to take root and material to feed on, but if your moisture problem is out of hand, no amount of mitigation will prevent it from colonizing virtually every surface. I should know....we lost almost everything we owned, even ostensibly non-porous items like solid plastic, rubber, and stained/sealed/painted wood, to that awful stuff in the apartment.

Thankfully, our financial situation improved somewhat when I got my SSDI settlement and my wife began working again, so now we have our own home and I monitor the humidity here with great care.

ReactiveConstellationNE
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 256
   Posted 11/22/2010 3:53 AM (GMT -6)   
As to making one's pain worse....absolutely. The reactions that mold spore toxins and allergens can cause are bad enough by themselves but if you already have an auto-immune problem -- even one far less reactive than Reiter Syndrome -- it can most definitely make it worse.
Conditions: Reactive Arthritis (AKA Reiter Syndrome), Crohn's Disease, Chronic Pelvic Inflammatory Syndrome, Sacroiliitis, Costochondritis, As Yet Unknown MS-Like Relapsing/Remitting Neuropathy, and a partridge in a pear tree.

Medications: Currently not that many are taken daily, but there are many at my disposal for part-time use. Low dose pain medication, after years at high doses. Working on innovative ways of taking lesser-known pharmaceuticals and non-prescription supplements to maximum benefit.

Mrs. Dani
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 2787
   Posted 11/22/2010 1:37 PM (GMT -6)   
 Dear Exit Wound,
 
      This "Topic" was originally started in June 2008.
 
   :-)
 dani
 

TWO roads diverged in a yellow wood
And sorry I could not travel both
And be one traveler, long I stood

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