percocet to morphine?

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yankee girl
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Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 125
   Posted 2/7/2009 4:00 PM (GMT -7)   
I've been taking 10 mg. percocet 4 times/day for several years due to nerve damage in my right wrist. The pain is worsening and spreading. I asked my pain doc (whom I see every month) if I could try oxycontin since that is supposed to be longer lasting. He said NO, however, he could perscribe morphine starting next month, as it's stronger than percocet.
 
Does anyone have an idea of possibly how much morphine he might prescribe based on my current dosage of percocet? Anything unusal I should be aware of if I do switch to morphine?  Just thought I'd try to gather as much information as I can.
 
Thanks so much!
fibro, PTSD, anxiety, severe nerve damage/several surgeries on wrist, TMJ, depression, mitral valve prolapse


PAlady
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Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 2/7/2009 4:42 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi, Yankeegirl (love the name!),
Welcome to the chronic pain forum of Healing Well. We're always sorry that there's another person in pain, but you've found the best site for support that's around IMHO!

We're not doctors, though, so I couldn't answer your question. I think there are a lot of inidividual factors that only your doctor would know. I wonder if his reluctance to go to oxycontin had anything to do with your insurance? One of the major insurance companies in my area is saying people have to try a list of other options before they'll pay for the oxycontin. I was just curious.

You can search old threads of people who may be on morphine, but there are different forms of it. You may want to ask your pharmacist, who knows your history, too, what your options might be.

This probably doesn't help much, but welcome!

PaLady

yankee girl
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 125
   Posted 2/7/2009 6:12 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi PaLady,

Thank you for your warm welcome and reply! And yes, your response was helpful!

I understand that only a doctor can answer my question, I was just wondering if anyone here had switched from percocet to morphine, and what, if any, issues arose, how the drugs differ (if at all), that kind of thing.

I know everyone is unique with medical conditions, etc. ---I guess I'm just really asking for general experiences from those that actually take morphine.

My doctor said that the only time they (in their practice) would perscribe oxycontin is if the patient had cancer. I really don't think he's aware of what insurances pay--he just seems clueless when it comes to those issues.

That's a good idea to just ask my pharmacist too-- again, I'd like to hear from those that are actually taking morphine, especially since there are different forms of it.

Thanks again PaLady!

Yankeegirl

 


fibro, PTSD, anxiety, severe nerve damage/several surgeries on wrist, TMJ, depression, mitral valve prolapse


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 2/7/2009 6:38 PM (GMT -7)   
Yankeegirl,
Oh, you're tripping on another area that many of us have had to face - what, in my opinion, are misinformed doctors. Oxycontin is used to treat chronic pain by many doctors, especially pain management specialists, but many of us also have difficulty getting good pain management. Is your doctor a pain management specialist? If not, I'd suggest you try to see one.

Another member here I think reported her doctor had the same kind of belief - and to me it's that, a belief, not science. That puts another light on your situation entirely. I take percocet, too, and since it works for my pain if i was to switch to a longer acting drug I'd prefer the oxycontin, since that's just an extended release form of the main drug in the percocet, oxycodone (although I'm guessing you may know this).

I'd really think about looking for another doctor if I was you, before I got into morphine because of misinformed views.

Hopefully, you'll hear from others now that you've mentioned that aspect.

PaLady
p.s. I just reread your first post and you said it was your pain doc. Do you have any other options where you live for pain management? It's one thing to switch you to morphine because it would be in your best interest for pain relief; it's another altogether because a doctor thinks it's only for cancer pain, IMHO!

Post Edited (PAlady) : 2/7/2009 6:47:31 PM (GMT-7)


Hello~Kitty
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Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 610
   Posted 2/7/2009 10:16 PM (GMT -7)   
Yankee, there are several websights that have a narcotic converter calculater, but from my expereice they always seem to be off. And I always thought that oxycodone was stronger then morphine, but I guess they are maybe about the same since they are both scheadule 2s. I dont understand why people think morphine is so strong, I guess because it's been around forever and is the closes related to the opium plant where alot of the newer narcotics are man made but I think alot of the newer ones are better in controlling pain, but that's just my opinion and experience. Also I think it's weird that a doctor would be willing to prescribe oxycodone in one form but not another, your still getting the same med. Also I just read a thing yesterday about the new meds that are about to get approved through the FDA and one of them was Oxycodone mixed with niacin, which would scare the heck out of me because I had two friends take Naicin in big doses and one of them ended up in the ER with heart issues and the other friend had her skin turn grayish. Scary Scary stuff and just to stop people from abusing pain meds, its not fair that we have to suffer over people who cant contol themselves. But I would talk to your doctor about other options in case the morphine ends up not working.

-hellokitty
I have Migraines, Pancreatic Divisum, Severe lower back pain (possibly turned to arthiritis from lack of treatment), Fibromyalgia, Asthma, Depression w/Anxiety/panic, had glallbladder stones at 14yrs old, gallbladder removed at 15yrs old, 2 severe car accidents in '05
Meds: Suboxone 8mg 3xday for pain, Cymbalta 60mg @ night for depression & Fibro,
Lyrica @ night for Migraines and Fibro, Treximet as needed for Migraines,
Ventolin Albuterol Inhaler as needed for Asthma Attacks.
Chocolate as needed daily
Been on Diability since I was 22 for Migraines and chronic Pancreatitas but going to college Spring '09 to be a nurse
"Some days I just wish I was a missing person!"
"I'm not spoiled, I deserve all my stuff"  -Happybunny


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 2/7/2009 11:51 PM (GMT -7)   
Mxing it with niacin? Now that is scary because it's easy to get too much niacin in your system from a lot of food sources, vitamins, etc.

PaLady

Scarred_for_life
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 1559
   Posted 2/8/2009 2:29 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Yankeegirl (I too love your name): I am on a morphine based pain medication. My Kadian I have been on for the past 4 years and it has really helped with keeping my pain down quite a bit. I started out taking 50 mgs twice daily that worked out good for a 2 year then I was increased because it wasn't working. We went up to 100 mgs twice daily and I was on that for a year and a half with good results. It has only been recently that doctor has bumped me to two hundred (which I have been told is still a rather low dosage) twice a day and I don''t think that I will go up from here as it has been quite a good fit for me. The Kadian is my main pain control medication with Percocet being my BT medication. Now the Percocet on the other hand hasn't done a darn thing as of late to help with the BT pain but I have been on it for a very long time 6 years in fact and I think they need to change that, but with the SCS being in the wings right now I know doc is waiting to see how I respond to it first before he bumps any medications I am on.

I have tried the Fentenyl patch but found out I was allergic to it, tried other meds and those didn't work either. Anyway I hope this helps.

Scarred
What doesn't kill us only makes us fight back harder! :P


yankee girl
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 125
   Posted 2/8/2009 5:58 AM (GMT -7)   
Oh, I know, I know!! the oxycontin IS the longer lasting relative of perocet, so I was really floored when he told me NO---frankly, he was astonished, asked why I wanted to try it---I told him, hey, it's supposed to be longer acting, right?  THEN, get this, THEN he said, "we don't perscribe oxycontin, it's highly addictive, well, it's ok for CANCER patients".  (the percocets are highly addictive too....they must have a policy that they just won't perscribe oxy because others have abused it, and they're afraid)
 
He's quite moody, you never know how he'll react to a request or question. I've been going to him (he is a pain management specialist) for several years.
 
I did go to another pain man. dr. about a year ago, since the drive would be so much easier ---he reluctantly  said he'd keep me on the percocets, and wanted me to be evaluated by (yet another) orthopaedic hand specialist----I did not go.  also, he insisted I give Lyrica another try (and I had told him it makes me dizzy and sick to my stomach).  I did try, with the same awful side effects--and it did nothing for the pain anyway.
 
Now, I just don't want to go have another eval.--they will tell me they can remove the neuromas (which is what I had done on my 2nd and 3rd surgery), but they returned, with a vengence. No more. I'm tired of doctors. It's an insult they keep you waiting for literally hours because they overbook, or they can't get to work on time.
 
I just want my pain controlled.
 
I mean, come on, all the pain meds are addictive, I would just like to get some genuine pain relief so that my hand can be more functional.
 
I'm in the Tampa area. I don't know if i can ask here on HW if anyone can recommend a good pain man. doc in this area,---so I apologize if my post has to be edited---- but it's so hit and miss, and I'm frustrated now.
 
Thanks again PaLady, HelloKitty and Scarred.
 
yankeegirl


fibro, PTSD, anxiety, severe nerve damage/several surgeries on wrist, TMJ, depression, mitral valve prolapse

Post Edited (yankee girl) : 2/8/2009 6:03:34 AM (GMT-7)


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 2/8/2009 1:48 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi, Yankeegirl,
It's just odd to me that pain management specialists don't prescribe oxycontin except for cancer patients. I know they're high on the list for diversion to the streets, but still, there are pain contracts and such.

The thing is asking for a specific drug is one of the red flags for a pain management specialist. The other thing is you've got to go through all the hoops - in other words, the evals, the second opinions, etc. - or that may raise an eye brow. Plus the doc him/herself may have to document they have tried everything else.

I'm not sure if you're young, but this may also figure into the equation. And also the fact your pain seems to be pretty localized to your hand. I'm not saying those things should be factors, but they might. I've had difficulties with my hands for a long time. Had carpel tunnel surgery on both. And they're getting worse as I age, with some of those benign cysts growing that make movement more difficult. I don't know if cortisone injections or something along those lines would help with your condition. Have you ever tried these? I have had them for trigger fingers in my hands. Yes, they are excruciating to get - for about 30 seconds. But a series of 3 really helped me. But that may not be the same issue for you. It might be woth asking your hand specialist, but I'd only let a good hand surgeon do them (although mine did them right in his office).

Just some thoughts.

PaLady

yankee girl
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 125
   Posted 2/8/2009 2:29 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi PaLady,
 
I do understand having to jump thru all the hoops and such for documentation, etc. I asked about the oxy since I know it's longer lasting, ---I have perepheral neuromas where the kabob-like skewers were placed to stablize my wrist after the first surgery --the nerves /tissue had grown around these skewers--something that wasn't supposed to happen...and when the nurse literally yanked them out, more nerve damage occured.
 
 
In retrospect, I probably should have just told him the percocets just aren't working very well any longer.
 
I'm 53. I also have titanium discs in my tmj-- the discs were replaced since they were almost totally deteriorated ---chewing, etc was so painful, plus, my jaw would lock up sometimes.... So that's a "sore spot" also.
 
i've been to several hand specialists and noone has suggested cortisone injections for what I have....I'm happy that they do help you though!
 
I so appreciate your thoughts on this PaLady, and taking the time to respond to me.
 
cold weather is awful, isn't it?
 
Yankeegirl
 
 
fibro, PTSD, anxiety, severe nerve damage/several surgeries on wrist, TMJ, depression, mitral valve prolapse


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 2/8/2009 2:55 PM (GMT -7)   
Yes, the cold really makes is 1,000% worse - adds all the acheness on top of the other pain!

Wish I could help more. I still lean toward finding a pm doc who doesn't write off oxycontin as for cancer patients only. I didn't mean to imply anything re: age, but I'm 59, and I still have difficulty getting good pain management. Thank goodness my neurosugeon's office has been prescribing for me for over a year - probably because back surgery failed - but one of these days they're going to cut me loose and so far I've not found anyone in a reasonable driving distance who can do a decent job with pm.

Hopefully someone will have some suggestions in the Tampa area.

PaLady

uniquelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 1037
   Posted 2/8/2009 6:51 PM (GMT -7)   
 
 
Hi Yankeegirl,
I don't know if it's the same thing, but the other day at my Dr. visist, he was going to give me something called Opana because of the recall of Roxicodone...I was taking Roxicodone 15 mg. 4xdaily...He wrote me Opana 10mg. 4x daily...stating that Opana is roughly 2x stronger then the Roxicodone 15 mg.  Now, all I know about Opana is that it is Oxymorphone...
 
Is Oxymorphone the same as Morphine?  I thought it was like Oxycontin...Anybody have the answer?
 
Me.

 

 Post Lamenectomy Syndrome, Bipolar, GERD

Hemi-lamenectomy, Spinal Fusion

120mg. methadone daily, 60mg. oxycodone daily

 


kttn251977
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 554
   Posted 2/8/2009 7:18 PM (GMT -7)   
You can't just start out on Oxycontin without already being on a morphine..... More than likely you will get Kadian, which is a 24-hour extended release pain med as well. Wait for the oxy until you build up the tolerence..... there is very few places to go after that. You still have patches as well. Good luck, hope it brings you some relief. It worked some time for me until I became tolerant against it, and I have a very HIGH tolerance to pain meds. My hubby is 6'3 & 275, he can barely take a percocet without passing out, whereas I am 5'1.... and I have had 6 shots of dilaudid before and walked! lol. I pray you don't have to go on oxy- either form. There is Oxycontin which is STILL a STRONGER version of oxycodone. Oxycontin is also an extended release (ER) pill, usually 12-24 hours. The oxycodone is the short term pill 4-6 hours. They are both very strong, even my pharmacist has commented on they are usually for cancer patients. I don't know your medical history, but you have a way to go before you get to that point. Kadian is a very good drug.... I did well for almost a year on it, that's a long time for me. But with the oxy's.... I am sure you have read how hard it is to come down from. I had diverticulitis once & couldn't keep my pills down & began withdrawals, I would NEVER wish it on my worst enemy. I wanted to die. (That's where the 6 shots came into play) There is a website called askapatient.com that talks about pills, and the reaction people have had from them- so check it out. Be warned though, there are abusers on there. What about Norco? Have you tried it yet? Its a great short term med, you may have no issues asking for that. Though percs might be considered a small class higher. Let us know how it goes! Good Luck!
RX's: Oxycontin 80mg 2x's daily; Oxycodone 30mg 5xs daily; Zanaflex 4mg 3x's daily; Restoril 15mg 1x; Soma 3x's daily; Lyrica 100mg 3x's daily (pain & fibro.); Phenergan 25mg (as needed); Amitriptyline 25mg 1x (chronic pain); Cymbalta 60mg 2x's daily (pain from fibro); Abilify 5mgs at bedtime (depression); Metoclopram (as needed) & Senokot (as needed).
"The most critical choice you'll ever make is the one you make about what you're going to do with this. The past is over. The future hasn't happened yet. The only time is now."
- Dr. Phil


ryand
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 639
   Posted 2/9/2009 12:42 AM (GMT -7)   
There isn't necessarily an order in which one must progress from med to med. Each person reacts so differently to each med, and each doctor has different backgrounds, experiences, and preconceptions that influence their prescribing practices. My most recent PM is like yankee's with the completely baseless opinion that adequate pain management is only reserved for cancer patients. My local hospital is much more progressive, and fortunately my PCP is reasonable enough to agree with them during my flares.

For me, though, morphine is a waste of time - does nothing at all. And, oddly enough, though it takes fairly high doses, percocet is usually more effective for me than oxycontin. (Though I admit the only truly effective treatment they found for me was a combination of BOTH oxyER and percocetIR.) My PM, though, screams bloody murder when she sees that nasty ER med on the list and gives me the "cancer patients only" lecture disregarding the fact that the hospital records showed I was unable to walk or even SIT UP b/c of the severe pain. Ah, well... fortunately by the time I get back to her I'm always back OUT of the hospital again and usually walking at least with a cane if not all by myself again, so back off them I go.

Ry

Lindaloo
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Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 1713
   Posted 2/9/2009 9:40 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Yankeegirl,

I don't know how helpful my post will be, but I just thought I'd tell you my experience.

Last year or so, I found the percocet 10/650 were't working, so I told my pain management doctor. She put me on Oxycontin, it didn't work. She tried me on Kadian and I had an awful reaction. So, she tried me on morphine three times a day ( I think it was 20mg but I can't be sure now) with the percocet for breakthrough pain and I found I was taking one and then the other every four hours and the morphine was not holding me well either. So, I switched back to the percocet and added the lyrica.

I finally went off the lyrica (I forget why "fibro fog") and then about six months later I went back on the lyrica and it is working like a champ. So except for flares I do real well.

The whole point of the story is that the morphine and the oxy and the kadian didn't work for me.

I live in Ocala and if you want the name of my doctor I would be happy to give it to you. She is great and she generally is right on time with her appointments. I go once a month.

Well, I hope it helps ? Good luck sweetheart.

Lindaloo
Moderator Chronic Pain
 
Believe in yourself.  Be kind to fellow humans and animals.  Take time to smell the flowers and the coffee.
And by all means, when you are down, ask me for help.  I will be there.
 
Linda


yankee girl
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 125
   Posted 2/9/2009 3:09 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi Lindaloo,

That would be great if you would give me the name of your doctor---thank you! I'll check if she takes our insurance and talk it over with my husband.

Also, what was your awful reaction to Kadian?

I've tried Lyrica several times, and every single time, I had the same side effects---dizziness, nausea, headache---feeling so bad that I'm curled up on the bed in the fetal position, holding my head----plus, it carries over to the next day...it's just awful. I never, ever want to take it again.

Thanks to all who have shared your experiences---and if anyone can share anything else, please do!

Everyone is so helpful...it's very much appreciated!

Yankeegirl

 


fibro, PTSD, anxiety, severe nerve damage/several surgeries on wrist, TMJ, depression, mitral valve prolapse


uniquelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 1037
   Posted 2/9/2009 5:12 PM (GMT -7)   
 
 
I don't know what it is about Lyrica but every time I try to take it I feel like I've been on a bender for a week...Then when I tell my Dr. (so far 3 of them) that it has this effect on me, they always tell me to take MORE!!!  Why?  Wil taking more cancel it out?
 
Right now, my Doc wants me to take 150 mg. 2xdaily...I will be in a prolonged coma so don't expect any posts from me for a while...LOL
 
Why do they tell me MORE?  You'd think they wouldn't want me to take something that has that kind of an effect on me...Yep, you'd think so...But NO...
 
Me.

 

 Post Lamenectomy Syndrome, Bipolar, GERD

Hemi-lamenectomy, Spinal Fusion

120mg. methadone daily, 60mg. oxycodone daily

 


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 2/9/2009 7:26 PM (GMT -7)   
I know with neurontin, which is very similar to lyrica, it took my body a long time to get used to it, and I had to increase the dose very slowly. Both neurontin and lyrica do tend to produce a sedating effect, but your body may get used to it over time. It all depends on the trade off for pain relief. When I'm even late on my neurontin dose, the symptoms in my feet just start screaming at me, so I know I need it even though I also know it's affected my stamina and mental clarity.

PaLady

kttn251977
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 554
   Posted 2/10/2009 12:55 AM (GMT -7)   
The lyrica works great for me, I went through a week or two of the "fog". more like zombie mode. now it doesn't bother me, but when i am a few days off i really notice it. please don't mistake my post as rude, i reread and thought i would explain what everyone else is saying, everyone is different & all meds react to people in different ways. what may work for me, may not for you- & vice versa. my main goal was to say wait until you are to the point you need it, most people i know who start off on an oxy (my aunt for one who died recently of cancer) said it made her sick to her stomach because she wasn't used to morphine...... even the pamphlet warns don't start unless you are used to morphine products...... i hope the suggestions i gave you helped..... and FYI, morphine does ZIP for me.... i laugh when the ER gives it to me, its like Tylenol. but some reason ER kadian worked well..... just dropping you some names to ask about. good luck & please keep us posted!
RX's: Oxycontin 80mg 2x's daily; Oxycodone 30mg 5xs daily; Zanaflex 4mg 3x's daily; Restoril 15mg 1x; Soma 3x's daily; Lyrica 100mg 3x's daily (pain & fibro.); Phenergan 25mg (as needed); Amitriptyline 25mg 1x (chronic pain); Cymbalta 60mg 2x's daily (pain from fibro); Abilify 5mgs at bedtime (depression); Metoclopram (as needed) & Senokot (as needed).
"The most critical choice you'll ever make is the one you make about what you're going to do with this. The past is over. The future hasn't happened yet. The only time is now."
- Dr. Phil


bighelmut
New Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 4/27/2009 11:37 AM (GMT -7)   
 
 
  I know this thread is a bit old so I do not know if any of you will get this. However going to try as it seems there is some confusion as to the meds mentioned above. I AM NOT A DOCTOR EITHER.............just VERY experienced in pain management and have educated myself on all of the meds mentioned. Here goes and I hope it benefits someone.
 
 
  First and foremost I have been in pain to some degree since hurting my back over twenty years ago. Being in labor intensive jobs all my life sped up the process that the injury started. about 10 years ago I started to have debilitating pain that would put me down for weeks at a time. I carried on like this on meds until I finally could not take it anymore and opted for a lamenectomy on l4-l5 and s1. This worked for about 2 months or so and my pain came back with a vengance. I then had a fusion done at the same levels with hardware and rods and all that good stuff. This lasted for about 6 months or so and the cause they think is scar tissue which was the main reason the first sugery went south on me. With this said I have been on every drug known to man for pain management and also been in every kind of thereapy every devised for the same.
 
  Oxycontin is nothing more than a time released Percocet. They are both Oxycodone and one is the full monty all at once and the other is timed released over the course of a day. The only thing that seperates the strength is the dosage and strength of them. Morphine is given orally for a longer lasting effect that help keep pain levels low and the oxycodone is usually given for what they call Breakthrough pain. Morphine in and of itself is stronger than oxycodone.....in injection form. The oral is rarely that strong and the effects are not as powerful as injections.
 
 To sum it up..........vicoden is Hydrocodone............low.............Percocet, percodan, oycontin and the like are Oxydondone medium to high...... and then the biggy.........Dilaudid and the like are Hydromorphone...........that is the best you will get for pain releif.
 
  I hope I helped anyway, and again do not mean to sound like I know it all but this aint my first rodeo as they say. Oxy by the way is abused a lot, however they crush it and snort it to get the full effect right from jump. Percs give you that anyway so if anything Percs are better for a high for a drug seeker abuser. It is like Pitbulls.......they got a bad rap for a FEW instances in the grand scheme of things...........well so did oxycontin. Good luck all!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
Kevin
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