percocet to morphine transition

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yankee girl
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Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 125
   Posted 2/27/2009 6:12 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi everyone,
 
I posted a few weeks ago that my pm doc would switch me to extended release morphine, not to oxycontin. I've been on 10 mg percocets/4X day for a few years (and sometimes 5 a day--he was giving me 10 extras a month).
 
But he freaked when I asked about the possibility of switching to oxy----I explained that it's longer acting, that's what I need, but he said morphine, NOT oxy.
 
I got the extended morphine the other day---30 mg 2xday. They don't quite do the trick, nor do they last 12 hours---they don't last 6 hours.....
 
Since I just started them, should I give it more time? My next monthly appointment isn't until March 25th.  I asked him SEVERAL times the other day---will this dosage be strong enough??? of course he said yes...well, it's not.
 
One positive about the morphine is that I don't crash like I did from the perocets, I have more energy it seems.
 
should I call him before the 25th? I'm so tired of this pain---I have severe nerve damage in right hand (I'm right handed) and it's just getting so old..... sad
Thanks so much for any input.....
 
Yankeegirl
fibro, PTSD, anxiety, severe nerve damage/several surgeries on wrist, TMJ, depression, mitral valve prolapse


Denim
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Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 428
   Posted 2/27/2009 8:18 AM (GMT -7)   

Hi Yankee Girl, I'm a Yankee girl too.

I am also taking the morphine sulfate--no, not very strong---but the percocet crashes were horrible for me. I took mine and filled the vial with water and got rid of it--I was so sick. I was first given 15mg of the morphine--at first I did feel the difference. I really don't think we have a great selection of pain meds to choose from. I wish they would do more research and come up with something non addictive that hits your pain, and not your brain. The morphine, doesn't mess with your brain much, which is good. Do you take anything else with it? I take ultram but was hoping to get off because of all the negative things I've heard. I don't know what to do myself. I saw that no one answered, so I just wanted you to know that I was given the same as you. I cut back on the ultram but if you're in pain, why? Maybe someone can add to this, because I feel like it's all a guessing game and the options aren't good.


Swallow your pride, you will not die, it's not poison.- Bob Dylan 


straydog
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 13469
   Posted 2/27/2009 8:35 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Yankeegirl, the only thing I can add is most of the time when we start on a new medication we need to just give it some time before throwing the hat in and saying its not working. Our drs really don't like to give us these meds to begin with and when they don't think we are giving them a real chance to see if they work it just gets more difficult with that dr along the way. My drs always made me wait two weeks on a new medication unless I had some sort of reaction o the medication. Sorry, I know that may not be what you wanted to hear but try giving it some time. Hugs Susie


yankee girl
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Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 125
   Posted 2/27/2009 8:42 AM (GMT -7)   

Thanks for your reply Denim---no, he didn't give me anything else. I'm really angry with him ----I told him repeatedly that the pain is worse, I'm tired of it all, PLEASE PLEASE be sure that what you give me will be strong enough.....

I've tried Ultram---it did NOTHING, Lyrica--makes me sick as a dog, neurontin--doesn't work anymore, feet started swelling so badly, some other things also

I see many people here post about having additional meds for breakthrough pain---so I'm not sure whether to call him and tell him it's not working, or do I need to give it more time......I just want to cry.

thanks for listening.

yankee girl


fibro, PTSD, anxiety, severe nerve damage/several surgeries on wrist, TMJ, depression, mitral valve prolapse


Denim
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 428
   Posted 2/27/2009 9:08 AM (GMT -7)   
I know sweetie--I'm sick of the pain too. I see on here, people taking many meds. I'm not saying I want them, and I'm sure they don't want them but I also would like to know of something that worked that wasn't terrible. Like I said the percocets made me so sick, coming down. The ultram doesn't make you sick but it's terrible to get off. There really isn't a giant choice in my eyes. I tried Lyrica, I felt like I was walking on my side the next morning. You would think morphine would kill the pain. It is frustrating. I truely hope you get somehwere with this doctor. I hope he's reasonable and listens. The people that have intelligent doctors are very lucky. I haven't met any that are very intelligent. I thought that they had to keep studying to know whats new. I read things on here and have my own experiences, where I just shake my head and many people give the doctors too much credit. My husband has been having trouble breathing. Our doctor said it was lethargy. Is is me, or is that an absurdly assinine answer? I don't know any more. I do wish you well. Let us know what happens. God bless.  
Swallow your pride, you will not die, it's not poison.- Bob Dylan 


straydog
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   Posted 2/27/2009 9:47 AM (GMT -7)   
Denim your husband is having breating problems and the dr says it lethargy??? What kind of dr is this that told him that. If you can't get enough oxygen yes you are lethargic. I was literally passing out and falling in my house something awful. I fell down my stairs twice, I live in a 2 story house. I cannot tell you the times I have passed out standing at my kitchen sink and wham next thing I knew I was in the floor and had hit my head on a tile floor. How I kept from really injuring myself is beyond me. I have COPD and it was preventing me from getting the oxygen I needed. My gi dr sent me to a pulmonary dr after putting me in the hospital over all these falls. My sats were in the low 70;s when I went in, the nurses could not believe I could even sit up. I was put on oxygen went home with oxygen that was 2ys ago Jan. I am under the care of a great pulmonary dr. If you husband has not been seen by one please get him in to see one. Susie


Lindaloo
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Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 1713
   Posted 2/27/2009 10:01 AM (GMT -7)   
Yankeegirl,

I most definitely hear you about your pain and I am so sorry about your doctor being so stubborn. I had a time where the percocet just stopped working too and my doctor tried Oxycontin and then morphine but with breakthrough percocet which I had to take because you are right, the morphine doesn't hold you the whole time.

Any way after a couple of months, I decided I was taking pills every four hours anyway and I hated the idea of taking morphine anyway so I tried taking just the percocet again and this time it worked for me. Don't know why that happened but the percocet now works again and it's been more than a year.

I did email you my dr's name. Please consider seeing her. Dr. Clunn will do her best to help you. She is a wonderful and caring person and she listens to you. She has an ARNP named Jerry who is just as nice.

Good luck

Gentle Hugs,

Lindaloo
Moderator Chronic Pain
 
Believe in yourself.  Be kind to fellow humans and animals.  Take time to smell the flowers and the coffee.
And by all means, when you are down, ask me for help.  I will be there.
 
Linda


White Beard
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Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 3611
   Posted 2/27/2009 1:52 PM (GMT -7)   
Yankeegirl is the Doctor you go to, your regular PCP or is the Doctor a Pain Specialist? From personal experience most PCP's I have seen are really not qualified to treat CP, most do not feel comfortable prescribing opioid type agents to treat pain, and often the ones that do over estimate the drugs capabilities and thus under treats the patient pain. Of course if your Doctor is a Pain specialist, then you have a problem, but again to, a good pain specialist, should not leave you with inadquate treatment! I was just wondering? if you are not already going to a Pain Clinic, is it possible that you could get a referal to go to one?
Also from personal experience, for me Oxycontin was and absolute Godsend, for the most part one tablet every 12 hours, does it! For along time I was on Vicodin ant then Vicoprofen I was on them every 4 hours, and I was luppy and still in pain. The Oxycontin takes care of the pain and I have no feeling of being drugged up or anything like that. I do on occassion have to take a percocet for break thru. One other thing, I have found the best doctors to deal with pain managenment is either a good Pain Specialist or an Oncologist!

I do wish you Luck
White Beard

yankee girl
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 125
   Posted 2/27/2009 4:01 PM (GMT -7)   
I go to a real pain specialist--he's with an orthopaedic group, so yes, I have a problem with him. He is so against oxycontin. Perhaps I made a mistake by asking for it, but the only reason I did was because I know it's supposed to be longer acting than the percocets.
 
Perhaps I need to give the morphine more time--but in addition to it not lasting long enough, nor is it not knocking out the pain to begin with, I'm incredibly itchy and get really bad headaches when I take it.---Are these side effects something that will dissipate over time?
 
I'm just miserable now.
 
I did call the pain specialist that Lindaloo goes to, but I have to get one of my doctor's to fax a referral, then they screen the potential patient and decide whether or not they'll see you.
 
 
 
 
fibro, PTSD, anxiety, severe nerve damage/several surgeries on wrist, TMJ, depression, mitral valve prolapse


White Beard
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Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 3611
   Posted 2/27/2009 5:04 PM (GMT -7)   
Well yankee girl I think I would try seeing the new specialist, Oxycontin is a very good pain medication, I really don't understand why your Doctor is so against using it. May I give you a suggestion, Some Doctors don't like to be told anything! So you kind of have to stroke their egos a bit, an ask them in way that they think it is their idea! Mention all the problems you are having with your mdication, doesn't last long enough, you said it makes you itch, gives you bad headacches, what ever, then mention that you were reading about ( what ever the med is) and ask him if he has ever heard of it, and so does it work? But let the Doctor be the one to suggest you should try it or what ever. This might not work on all doctors, but allot of them just do not like to be told anything, especially by their patients! It is sad, but that has been my experience, and I have seen it from both sides, as a patient and a nurse. In the mean time if the Morphine is making you itch, ask your Doctor what he can give you for that, maybe Benadryl or something.
Good Luck to You
White Beard

Denim
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 428
   Posted 2/27/2009 6:21 PM (GMT -7)   

Dear Straydog, I said the eact same thing..lethargy??? Doesn't that sound like the most assinine answer you ever heard? He is my doctor too and I have been thinking of changing myself. He never somes up with any ideas himself, can't diagnose, so basically he gives us pills that others might not. I found out my old doctor came back. He had his faults but would come up with ideas and this thread was about oxyxontin--and he wanted to put me on it, but my insurance wouldn't pay for it. But when my husband came home with that answer, I freaked out. I'm thinking--where did you get your diploma, from a cracker jack box??  I thought doctors had to continue their studies, it seems like he knows nothing and we are the doctors telling him what to do and he goes along with it. Just absurd. I didn't mean to hijack this thread but wanted to respond to you and someone was saying how doctors can be stubborn--I think it's an ego/control issue. How about looking out for your patient and what would help them? I hope we all get what we need. It's bad enough to have chronic pain but to recieve no help from your doctor, get ridiculous answers or fight egos, is getting us nowhere. While I'm at it, anyone from the Tuscon region?

I wish all of you the best, I pray for board members, it is all heartbreaking and when someone else gets abused, we all do, that's how I feel. I would like them to spend some money on making pain medications that aren't addictive and treat just where you are hurting and make these so called doctors take classes and retested to remain doctors. I have not barely met any intelligent ones since I moved here.

Straydog, that's for confirming my feelings. I think I would have freaked on this guy if he gave me the answer he gave my husband.

And Yankee girl, hang in there and don't give up. I hope you get what you need soon.

Blessings to all.


Swallow your pride, you will not die, it's not poison.- Bob Dylan 


Tony McGuire
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 483
   Posted 2/27/2009 7:04 PM (GMT -7)   
Oxycontin vs Morphine?

For me, that's a no-brainer.
The Oxycontin. Or, in my case it was oxycodone (instant release version of oxycontin).

The Dr gave me a prescription for 90, 5 a day. It is STILL the only medication that I've gotten 100% relief with. Problem is that it takes an hour to start acting, and only gives 2 hours of relief. So I went through the 90 in record time (less than a 3 week supply). And when the meds aren't working I'm at a level 10 on the pain chart 100% of the time.

However, I also got a weird reaction when I asked about Oxycontin since the Oxycodone was so short-lived in my system.

The Dr now won't give me any of the Oxy.anything.

I take Methadone on top of msContin (ir Morphine). This gives me about 50% relief.

And in that light I'd say that Morphine is nowhere close to the oxyContin OR oxyCodone.

However, I also now believe as many often espouse here - all of these pain medications work completely differently on each of us. So which works better for you is between the pills, your body, you and your pain management physician.
Wife: Liz
Dogs: Koshka & Chomp
Heart: Lisinopril
Brain Zaps: Gabitril
Kidney: Simvastatin
Diabetes: Metformin, Insulin
Pain: Avinza, Morphine IR, Methadone, Cymbalta, Lyrica


straydog
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 13469
   Posted 2/27/2009 7:18 PM (GMT -7)   
Oh Yankeegirl, you sent a red flag right up to that dr asking for Oxycotin. We have talked alot on this subject and know what happens when this happens. Because of the widespread abuse its getting harder and harder to find a dr willing to prescribe it. Most drs look at us as pill seekers when we ask for a medication by name, sorry kid that you did that. Maybe the part of the country White Beard lives in they are more liberal in prescribing it but it really getting tougher and tougher to get it.
 
Do you have your printout from the pharmacy about the Morphine? If so read it and look at potential side effects to see if this is listed. Or you can go to Drugs.com and look it up. They give info on medication there.
 
Lets hope you can get a referral to Lindaloo's dr ASAP. Susie


White Beard
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Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 3611
   Posted 2/27/2009 9:19 PM (GMT -7)   
straydog I wouldn't say they are more liberal at all at the pain clinic I go to the first thing you do  when you go for your refill appointment is pee in a container. Everyone has to give a urine sample everytime, after that then they weigh you, and ask you what meds you are taken and what and when was the last time you took pain meds! Then the doctor sees you and goes over everything and asks you a bunch of questions, he then examines you, and writes the refill prescription. He is very very thorough, heck he even gave me a referal to  a counselor, when I explained I was have marritial problems. He even was the one to refer me to a Sleep Specialist for sleep apnea. He knows me better and treats me more than my Primary Physician.
 
 I do remember one time an older man came in and he was mad and really carrying on because the Doc wouldn't refill his prescription. Finally  after the Doc couldn't settle him down and he wouldn't go in the back to the Docs office! The Doc just told him in front of everyone, he didn't need the meds he wasn't using them, his urinalysis showed he and hadn't used them for a while. And he ask what he was doing with the meds, the Guy left real quickly after that. The nurse told me they had allot of that, and that is why everyone is required to give the urine sample everytime. Not just to see if your taking to much or abusing drugs but to see if your not using them and maybe selling them instead. At first I was offended by the strict  requirements, but he is a very good caring doctor, and he is putting his career on the line, when writing all those types of prescriptions, so now I don't mind having to pee in a bottle and get interrogated  each time before gettin my refill!

PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 2/27/2009 10:22 PM (GMT -7)   
For better or worse, I think this is going to become more and more standard. Lots of us have to sign pain contracts, but the regular UA's vary. I just wish we didn't have to be treated like we were on the path to becoming criminals.

PaLady

straydog
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 13469
   Posted 2/28/2009 12:23 AM (GMT -7)   
White Beard please do not be offended I was not trying to indicate anything about your dr or his practice. It is true in some areas of the country the drs are a little more liberal than in others. It really sounds like you really have an excellent pain mgt dr and you are right he really knows you. Thats a real rarity this day and time to get any dr to remember who you are. It gives us faith when we see a good dr come along and reminds us there are still some good ones out there, but man is it ever hard to find them. I have been fortunate in having good pain mgt drs that did not put me thru the wringer like some of our peeps here have gone thru.  With my temperment I truly don't know if I could hold up to being dealt with in that manner. As far as I am concerned there is no excuse for these drs to act the way some of them do-they don't need to be in pain mgt for sure.
 
My former pain dr required randon UA's I did 2 in 5 years. I signed a Contract and it stated they did pill counts, getting pain meds from other sources, you know the usual language in them. I go trotting in there and never took my meds one time to be counted mainly because I never could remember,lol. But, they never asked me to bring them in either. My dr knew I was legit and had the physical problems to warrant pain mgt. He never ever questioned me on anything. Alot of the drs over time learn to sniff out the real ones and the nurses are the same way. Yes, I saw a few bawlers & squallers like you said while being a patient there. It was real clear why they were raising a ruckus too. The only thing that hacked me about the UA's they billed my insurance over $1,000 for each UA I did, I felt like that was a rip off. I would always have a "quote positive" UA because of the Dilaudid in my pain pump,lol. My pump nurse said she did not understand why the pump patients were being tested. From what I read the the Contract and the UA's are really there for the dr to weed out abusers, or like the old guy you talked about no meds in his system but wanting drugs. My old nurse said the pill count was to find the ones taking more than they were suppose to that it gave the dr cause to boot them. I read some stuff on this a few of days ago before I got sick with this goofy bug and I cannot remember everything I read on the subject, it was enlightning. I stumbled across a physicians intended pain mgt site and read some interesting things.
 
My new pump dr only treats pump patients and she does not have us sign a Contract and she does not do UA's. She is a very smart person to say the least, I am so thankful for her. I have a very hefty respect for medications of any kind and I cannot imagine taking a pain medication not prescribed by my dr. I would worry about not waking up again.
 
I do hope you are able to get out of the house soon and meet some people. After being isolated for awhile its scarey isn't it. I was a big people person, I had big parties at my home year round, alot of it was related to work functions. Over the years I made alot of friends with drs and their staff and those people loved to party. They use to call me at work and ask when the next party was happening,lol. If I get around a crowd now I panic and get real nervous. Have a good weekend look forward to your posts, Susie


White Beard
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Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 3611
   Posted 2/28/2009 12:31 PM (GMT -7)   
srtaydog I was not offended, and I do understand how you feel about pain Doctors, and how they treat patients, and yes allot of them, including mine, do make you feel like criminals, and I do most certainly resent it. Yes I to had to sign a contract, and afterward I learned that they ran every drug screening test there was available on me and every other patient that starts pain treatment at that clinic. Over the years, my Doctor has even told me that he does not worry about me abusing the meds. Heck allot of the time he will ask me if I need the Percocet for break throough and I tell him No, I have enough on hand. I am fortunate to have such a good Doctor, but it is humiliating to have take your little brown bag with your container and go in to the bathroom, and then come walking out with your little brown bag and walk through the waiting area to the back office for the interragation portion every time you need a refill which is monthly!. I do resent that! even though I understand it! It isn't right!

My first Doctor that originally put me on the Oxycontin, was an internal medicine/Oncologist I knew him well because I had previously worked with him when I was a nurse on the Onco unit. With him there was no such hoops to jump through, and he did not send his patient to the pain clinic, he was an Oncologist, he knew about pain and how to control and treat it! Unfortunately when he was put in charge of the Cancer Center, he had to drop all of his non cancer patients, and I had to find a new Doctor, PCP. and that Doctor, sent all her patients to the Pain Clinic as do so many of them now days.

So many days, I wish that my life was different, not having to go to the pain clinic and be treated like a criminal, I wish I didn't have so many meds to take, and knowing if I don't take them, I will pay the price and then some later on! And above all, on seemingly all to many nights, I wish I didn't wake up from the pain, or those wretching, clenching muscle spasms. But wishing does not make it so! I like you have a very healthy respect for medications, I honestly don't understand people that treat their meds so casually, medications can be dangerous, like a double edge sword, they can help you, if used correctly, but they can just as easily kill you if used incorrectly!

Thank- You for your post and encouragement straydog I really do appreciate it, I am trying to get out more and meet new people and make new friends, but it is difficult, Thanks Again....White Beard

PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 2/28/2009 2:50 PM (GMT -7)   
White Beard,
I'm a little out of sorts today but couldn't help thinking here you are someone who's served our country (well, the U.S., I recognize everyone here is not from the U.S.!) plus you've been a nurse... and now to be treated like this. Geesh.

PaLady

White Beard
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 3611
   Posted 2/28/2009 3:10 PM (GMT -7)   
Thank-You PALady
But there are so many who have it far worse than I could ever dream of having it! I think that is what working on that Onco Unit did for me, it help ground me, and put things into perspective because when ever I get really down. I think about all those people that had cancer, that I cared for, and a few of them I even was there with them during their very last moments of life. I have cried with them and their families, I know well the pain and suffering and hardship and grief, they experienced. When I think about that, I don't have it so bad, not at all! When reading snowflakes post it bought tears to my eyes, I do not have it so bad!
PaLady I do hope your pain eases up and you feel better soon You will also be in my prayers!
Good Luck to You
White Beard

PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 2/28/2009 3:13 PM (GMT -7)   
Ty, White Beard. And I am glad you picked up on Snowflake. thanks for doing that.

PaLady

straydog
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 13469
   Posted 3/1/2009 5:57 AM (GMT -7)   
White Beard,
 
I totally agree with everything you said. CP is a disease, its not an addiction, its a darn disease. Why can't people with CP be treated the same if they were going in for the flu or a cold or a checkup. Why they want to make patients feel like criminals is beyond me, I just don't understand it. I would like for a pain dr to explain why there is this attitude towards CP patients. I am well aware of there being alot of bogus people out there, its their job to weed those people out, but don't make everyone else pay the price. Now, my former pain dr when you did your UA you handed it to a nurse, you did not have to put it in a brown bag and carry it back to the waiting room, sorry thats just plain crude & rude on that office's part. I too had a very good relationship with my former pain dr. My BT meds were so weak they did not help so when he asked if I needed a refill I told him no, they didn't help and I wasn't wasting my money on them. He was not educated enough in pain medication either thats real common.
 
You know you are absolutely right, an oncologist would really know about pain mgt. Jeez, I should know, I lost my Mom to lung cancer and she ended up on the Fentanyl patches. Yes, you really saw it all working oncology and bless you for doing that because that is a tough job to work in. I am very fortunate that Mother did not suffer and she passed with her dignity. Oh, I can see what a shock it would be for you to go from your oncologist taking care of you to this pain clinic. WOW, talk about an eye opener. yes I understand your resentment too and I don't blame you a bit. I have been very lucky and never had to go thru what alot of them on here do. My new pain dr does not do Contract or UA's, but then she only treats pump patients. I also feel like if she thought one of her patients were not on the up & up she would boot them right out the door too. I am really sorry you lost your first dr.
 
Oh I too have my days of wishing I was not on medication to get by, didn't have crohns disease that keeps my world turned upside down. But, when I start feeling that way, I try to remember the ones that have it alot harder than me. That works pretty good until the next time. I really feel I am on the right road now tho with my new pain dr. I started a new crohns drug for me in Dec but if you have infection, a cold or an open cut you cannot do the shots. Well, I am on the tail end of bronchitis after 5 weeks and came down with a bug Tuesday. I do my shots every other week so you can see I am way off track and my gut knows it too. Now, I am worried about having to do the loading doses all over again and wondering if my ins will pay for all that medicine again. One box with two pens is $1600 and the first shots you do takes two boxes. Second round takes one box then you go to every other week. This is really worrying me.
 
You keep that chin up, you are a good man, you will meet some nice people...Susie


White Beard
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 3611
   Posted 3/1/2009 11:21 AM (GMT -7)   
straydog I do wish you well, I understand your worries about your insurance and paying for your medications, I am extremely fortunate in that respect. but it is unfortunate that people that suffer so much with chronic debilitating illiness, such as yourself, then also have to worry about how they are going to pay for their treatments! I do hope that you are feeling better and getting over your bronchitis.

I lost both of my parent to Cancer, my mother died of Colon Cancer at the age of 62, and that runs on both sides of my family, and I have Ulcertive Colitis, and I am at an extremely high risk for Colon Cancer, thus I have to have a Colonoscopy every year, ( Mayo's wanted me to have have every 6 months, but that is just to much!) My father died 8 or 9 years later of Lung Cancer. Any way they both died at home under Hospice Care. I was so impressed with the Hospice Nurses that took care of my mother, that when I retired from the Air Force I desided to go into Nursing! I can't begin to tell you what an impact those Nurses had on me and my life! and of all the things I have ever done, graduating from nursing school and working as an RN, I am the most proud of! It just goes to show you, you can teach and old dog new tricks! And of all the jobs and careers I have ever had I miss that one the most!

I Thank-You for your Kind words straydog, you take care of yourself! I hope you get to feeling better!

Good Luck to You.......White Beard
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