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White Beard
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Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 3611
   Posted 3/10/2009 11:31 AM (GMT -7)   
It was suggested to me by a member of this forum in response to one of my post, that I should start a new thread on the topic of forgiveness. I am not at all sure that I should be the one to start this thread, as I am sure FatherJohn is far more qualitified to write about such matters. I do think forgiveness has a great deal to do with ones CP though! I am all but sure that forgiveness  would help in easing ones CP. The reason I bring this topic up at all, is because this is the topic that is being addressed at a devorce support group that I just started  going to, ( last week was my first meeting and they address a different topic every week)The subject  tonight is Forgiving your spouse and forgiving yourself! Right now I find it very difficult to do either one! Anyway Forgiveness can apply to allot of different things, allot of us discusssed at length the topic of guilt in FatherJohns thread on "Is CP our Identity?"
 
Forgiveness should, I would think help relieve one of guilt! In my case I associate forgiveness with not only relieving my guilt, but also the removal of bitterness, and that I have allot of! Without question bitterness does increase ones CP, because if for no other reason it increases stresss!  I am bitter! I am bitter about allot of things, my pending divorce, and everything that has led up to it! The things that had happened that I just can't forgive, I am not ready,  at least not right now! My CP what kind of forgiveness can one give ones self,  to ease the guilt and bitterness of that? I find that extremely elusive!
The saying is: you don't forget but you forgive. I find that is much easier said than done!
 
 So I welcome all of you on this forum, to join me in a discussion about Forgiveness, come share your thoughts, and your feelings, and your experiences about it, and how it has affected your CP?
 
White Beard
 
 


I'm Retired USAF, went back to school and became an RN, and now am on full disability!
Degenerative Disc (affecting mostly the thorasic disc but all levels involved), C6/7 laminectomy/diskectomy& fusion, Osteoarthritis, Ulcerative colitis, Chronic Pain, Fibromyalgia, Complex Sleep Apnea, and host of other things to spice up my life!(NOT!)
 
Medications: Oxycontin, Percocet, Baclofen, Sulfasalazine, Metoprolol,  Folic Acid, Supplemental O2 at 3lpm with VPAP Adapt SV


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 3/10/2009 1:08 PM (GMT -7)   
White Beard,
Forgiveness. What a challenge, and yet lack of it makes everything worse, including CP. In my professional work, I have found what makes forgiveness difficult for many people is confusing it with condoning something, and also the notion of "forgive and forget". We don't forget, nor should we, because that is how we learn. But we can learn to release the feelings attached to what has happened. As a matter of fact, forgetting can be a dangerous thing, as we may find ourselves back in the same situation or with similar people. And forgiveness does not mean you condone someone's bad actions, or that a person shouldn't be punished or have consequences for actions.

That being said, I think bitterness is one of the big things that makes forgiveness difficult, but you are so right it makes all our pain worse. Sometimes I have suggested to people to think of releasing things like bitterness, anger, other emotions related to another person or an event for purely selfish reasons, because holding on to these things hurts us more than the other person. But on a personal level I sure know it's easier said than done.

I am coming to see forgiveness or releasing is a process that is like an onion, and has many layers. I don't know that I, for one, am able to just forgive in one sitting. I think for me it's an ongoing challenge to release the bitterness I am holding - some of it at people who, had they done their jobs, I would not have ended up in the situation I'm in. Everyone from a former supervisor to medical personnel to attorneys to have failed me. And I am still very angry about that. Yet I know staying angry will not help me in the leasst. But just like with grief, I think I need to give a better voice to the anger and, if I'm honest, sometimes even feelings of rage. I've never thought of myself as someone that would cling to these feelings, but I am. And it all comes back around to accepting my life, in its entirety. Not just the CP issues, but other mistakes I've made. Bad choices that cannot be undone. I know in my head everyone makes mistakes, but probably it's being older now and knowing there's no longer time to have a "do-over", especially now with pain and poverty.

Ok, I'm rambling a bit. Hope I didn't get too much off track!

PaLady

Post Edited (PAlady) : 3/10/2009 2:12:12 PM (GMT-6)


Chartreux
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 9622
   Posted 3/10/2009 1:27 PM (GMT -7)   
Wow, White Beard and PAlady your both right on many points..
There are many things to tackle in everyday life forgiveness is just not
one of the things I can face right now, but someday...Sometimes it takes
Time and lots of it before people can learn to forgive each other....
As in everything, everything is done in God's time, (sure hope that's permitible to says)

That's about all I can handle for today folks, this darn headache pain is a 20 on the 10 scale.......
Hugz to all for now......
**********************************************
* Asthma, Allergies, Osteoarthritis, Spinal Stenosis, Degenative Disc, Fibromyalgia, Gerd, Enlarged Pituitary Gland
******** "We could never learn to be brave and patient if there were only joy in the world" from Helen Keller *********

********>^..^<********>^..^<********>^..^<********


White Beard
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 3611
   Posted 3/11/2009 11:20 AM (GMT -7)   
I went to my divorce support group meeting last night, an like I mentioned before it was about forgiveness, I think PaLady wrote their script, as it followed along with pretty much everything she said! They did point out and stress, that forgiving was not a feeling or a state of mind or anything like that! It is a decision, a decision that you consciously make, you deside to forgive some body or something and you do it! I don't know if I totally agree with that or not, I guess I never really looked at it that way before. They said it doesn't mean you accept , or condone anything or any body, you just let go of the anger and bitterness! I am still thinking about that!...........
I'm Retired USAF, went back to school and became an RN, and now am on full disability!
Degenerative Disc (affecting mostly the thorasic disc but all levels involved), C6/7 laminectomy/diskectomy& fusion, Osteoarthritis, Ulcerative colitis, Chronic Pain, Fibromyalgia, Complex Sleep Apnea, and host of other things to spice up my life!(NOT!)
 
Medications: Oxycontin, Percocet, Baclofen, Sulfasalazine, Metoprolol,  Folic Acid, Supplemental O2 at 3lpm with VPAP Adapt SV


bluejet2
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 487
   Posted 3/11/2009 12:51 PM (GMT -7)   
I believe that forgiveness is something you do for yourself rather than whoever or whatever offended you. You are deciding to forgive so that you can come to peace with the situation and let it go. You are deciding to forgive so that the offender or offense no longer has a hold on you or your thoughts.

It doesn't mean it's an easy thing to do - I am still angry at the idiot that ran a stop sign 12 1/2 years ago and changed my entire life, but the thing is, a lot of the time the person that offended us doesn't even know they have done so.

I often wish that there was some way that I could let the person at fault in my accident know what his negligence has done, but would it really do any good? It's either going to make him feel terrible, or he's not going to care, and it's going to make me more angry.

I wrestle with it in my mind, because I know he didn't set out that day to hurt anyone, but he did decide that he was in too much of a hurry to come to a complete stop and give us the right of way that we should have had.

Thank you for the thought provoking thread!! '

Bluejet2

theswan
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 197
   Posted 3/11/2009 7:21 PM (GMT -7)   
Don;t we say quite often this line: "Forgive us as we forgive others"?

No often I am guilty of just mouthing these profound words. This is the action step God has us excercise. Yes he will forgive us hence, relieve us of guilt AFTER we forgive others.

Now this is of course easier said then done. In fact, may be quite inpossible for us to do therefore we must ask His aide in forgiving. I mena if I just say "golly" I forgive, things will not just fade into nothingness. We need humbly implore His help. God I really need to forgive this person allow me to pray good things happen for him/her.

This is a great topic and really holds a key to happeness.

Glen
This too shall pass


fatherjohn
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 999
   Posted 3/11/2009 9:02 PM (GMT -7)   
White Beard, I appologize that I have not been here to add to this thread. Your words are humbling saying I would be a good person to address this. I am not sure that I can add much but I will state a few things. I grew up in a very dysfunctional family and went through some horible abuses. It took me years to forgive others fro what they did to me and as well ask for forgiveness from those I hurt. The day I graduated from Bible college and was getting ready to head out to work on my masters degree, My father who was a very tough and abusive man was the only one from my family who attended. He told me he was glad I finally did something with my life but to keep my religion to myself. For many years I worked on a relationship with him. He never came to a church where I wa sthe pastor, still none of my family has ever attended a service where I was at. Just before my father dies, I was with him and I told him I honored his request by keeping my religion to myself but I did not hesitate to let him see that my life was different. We had a very good talk and forgave each other and he even accepted the Lord that day. I did his funeral not long after that. I don't work a 12 step program but I believe that we suffer emotional pain that can even have physical symptoms attached because of unforgiveness. Forgiveness with others has to be done when both parties are ready. Sometimes there has to be time and healing before we are ready and before others may be ready.
 
In your situation, just saying empty words I forgive you to comply to a rule would not be valid/ I don't believe this is what you are doing either. Through the years, things have built up and we are like an onion and we have to gently peel away the layers. gently because we are fragile. Oh yes some of us like to put on the tough image but we are fragile. We all have feelings and those feelings get hurt. Time will be the director of when forgiveness wil be ushered in. Don't become content on keeping the door closed forever. It might feel good to keep it closed and locked right now but if we never work on it, we will become bitter. Unforgiveness leads to bitterness and bitterness kills.
 
I am not an expert, although I have been recognized in several courts of law as a an expert witness ( another story another time) I am a personal story of finding self forgiveness. If we think it is hard to forgieve others, forgiving self is even harder. In my own life as well is in those I counsel on a regular basis, forgiving self takes longer and is more painful. Many time we see that we are not worthy of that forgiveness. Before I sought out help for a drug and alcohol addiction, I almost killed a woman ( she was electricuted but was revived). I tried to destroy myself for what I did. I started to see the long line pf people in my past that included my whole family and many other innocent victims that had been injured by me. It took a long time to work through all this and there are still days that I find that the ghosts of the past still haunt me. If I can, I address people who I have injured in any way. I have to take that same approach with myself. Even when I don't think I deserve it, I have to work through the issue to find the strength to forgive. Maybe this is why I have dedicated my life to helping others. i know that we are sometimes our worst enemy and we need to make peace. And peace does come when we learn to forgive. Once again, I have been able tp ramble longer than I intended. Forgive me. Blessings to you and the others. By the way, how did your support group go?

White Beard
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 3611
   Posted 3/11/2009 10:41 PM (GMT -7)   
FatherJohn last night was only my second time to attend these meetings, I kind of started in the middle, the divorce support group meets at at church, and they follow a program that you might be familiar with called Divorce Care, you have a work book, and the meeting covers a different topic every week, and you watch a program and then afterward have a group discussion about it. Of course it is a religious based program, and maybe a little to much emphasis put on it to my liking. I am not criticizing it or anything but I am Catholic and this is a littlte more , well lets just say a little more! But with that said I am enjoying it and finding it very insightful!
 
You know I also came from a rather abusive family my father was a "according to him a big important bussiness man" but in reality he was a very abusive alcoholic, and as soon as I graduated from highschool I joined the Air Force to get away from him and the whole situation. He actually set a good example for me as to what I never ever wanted to become. I don't drink, (oh maybe a glass of wine every once in awhile), my wife has never seen me drunk or even tippsy, I have never used or abused drugs, I absolutely abhor child or spousal abuse! My first 8 year in the military was in photography, and I often had to photograph every thing that happened on the base, and that included photographing children that were severely beaten or other wise abused by their parents, and wifes that were black and blue and bloodied by the fist of their military husbands! The Pictures I have taken and the photographs I have made and printed, have left images in and on my mind and soul that will never dim or fade! And like my fathers drinking, and the abuse my mother and I and my sister suffered from him! I vowed I would never ever be like that. And I am proud to say I am not! But don't get me wrong I am not perfect by a long shot, and I have more than my share of weaknesses and failings!
 
 And yes I agree forgiving ones self is extremely difficult, and that was one of the problems I had with what they said about forgiveness last night, it might be a decision, but it has to be much much much more than just that, because other wise it is just empty words being said, and I don't agree with that, I do believe forgiveness should not be denied but one also must be ready and right now I am not, not yet!

You know fatherjohn I was waiting to see you post on this thread, your writing was thoughtful, eloquent and honest, and of course enlightening like all the rest of your post!, It was worth waiting for!, One thing you do not do is ramble!

I thank-you for your Blessings and encouragement!
White Beard


 

I'm Retired USAF, went back to school and became an RN, and now am on ful disalbility!

Degenerative Disc (affecting mostly the thorasic disc but all levels involved), C6/7 laminectomy/diskectomy& fusion, Osteoarthritis, Ulcerative colitis, Chronic Pain, Fibromyalgia, Complex Sleep Apnea, and host of other things to spice up my life!(NOT!)

Medications: Oxycontin, Percocet, Baclofen, Sulfasalazine, Metoprolol, Folic Acid, Supplemental O2 at 3lpm with VPAP Adapt SV


fatherjohn
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 999
   Posted 3/11/2009 10:59 PM (GMT -7)   
White Beard, I too was a photographer, kind of. I spent 7 years investigating child abuse and neglect. I had a strong desire to address the innocent victims. That was the field I was an expert witness in. I had to take more photos that I ever thought was possible of children who had been horribly abused. I had to watch probably hundreds of hours of **** to search for child ****. Talk about images burned into the mind. Any way, I have been a pastor for 27 years. I have counseled and moderated various support groups. I to believe that at times in these groups religion gets pushed more that help and support. That does not mean I don't have a sgtrong belief but it is mine and not yours. I don't have the right to push it on you. I have to earn that right by showing you that I care. There is a saying that people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care. Blessings on you. 

edt
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 773
   Posted 3/12/2009 7:15 AM (GMT -7)   
I have attempted 3 x's to post on this topic.....I will try again later!  My story is long and their is a lot of bitterness.....which I thought I had detached from till I started posting.....my story ends with forgiveness, or so I think!
I'll explain later.
XXOO
Patti

White Beard
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 3611
   Posted 3/12/2009 9:17 AM (GMT -7)   
Patti
I have wondered where you were, please don't give-up trying I would like to hear your story!

White Beard
 

I'm Retired USAF, went back to school and became an RN, and now am on ful disalbility!

Degenerative Disc (affecting mostly the thorasic disc but all levels involved), C6/7 laminectomy/diskectomy& fusion, Osteoarthritis, Ulcerative colitis, Chronic Pain, Fibromyalgia, Complex Sleep Apnea, and host of other things to spice up my life!(NOT!)

Medications: Oxycontin, Percocet, Baclofen, Sulfasalazine, Metoprolol, Folic Acid, Supplemental O2 at 3lpm with VPAP Adapt SV


aimsgirl16
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 1469
   Posted 3/12/2009 9:55 AM (GMT -7)   

Wow! This is a great topic. I loved reading everyone's responses and agree with them so much. Forgiveness is such an important part of life. I have noticed that the people that who don't forgive seem to have a miserable life....nothing ever goes the way they want it or need it. There is always someone out to get them. I also know from experience how much it can tear you down to keep holding that grudge or to keep replaying what happened over in your head. I think when you forgive, you live a much happier life! I know I do.

Thank you White Beard for starting this thread!


Amy

 

21 years old...Systemic Lupus 11/07, lupus nephritis 01/09, raynoids 03/08, Carpal Tunnel 03/08

Ultram, Prednisone, Cell-Cept, Lisinopril, Imuran, Ambien, Flexeril, Darvocet, Ferrious Sulfade, Calcium, Vitamin B12, Chantex, Aspirin 81 mg, Vitamin C


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 3/12/2009 10:44 AM (GMT -7)   
Edt,
Yes, please keep trying. And everytime I think I've 'completed' something like forgiveness tasks, life shows me another layer to the onion. Maybe that's how we learn.

PaLady
Fatherjohn & White Beard - the photography aspect...I mean, what are the odds both of you would be doing that? I'm pondering...have some thoughts but will wait to share them later. I only hope you both don't suffer from secondary traumatization from all you have witnessed. Yet, that is the compelling aspect perhaps for the victims, is it not? That you both served to bear witness?

Post Edited (PAlady) : 3/12/2009 11:48:05 AM (GMT-6)


Denim
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 428
   Posted 3/12/2009 12:08 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi all,

My thoughts line up with theswan's response. Being a Christian, I am told to forgive as I have been forgiven. I believe that. We are such imperfect beings ourselves. Corrie Ten Boone spent years in a concentration camp, along with her sister. She had to ask God to help her to forgive the German soldiers over and over. I understood it as something that you may have to do more than once. But I also have seen where, someone hurt me and I prayed for them, because I heard that helps to forgive people and it worked, I forgave them as if it never happened.

It is interesting, I think not forgiving hurts you and will make you unhappy, but I figure that to be a given. But I am seeing things I think are "givens" aren't--because I see frequently people are often not on the same "wave lengths".   


straydog
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 13473
   Posted 3/12/2009 1:08 PM (GMT -7)   
Patti I understand how you are feeling. I have forgiven some very important people in my life but its still hard, not sure I have what it takes to post it. Because of the acknowledgments I received years ago, I know that is why I was able to live a decent life, otherwise I may not have been able to I was once a very young unahappy prson, but also felt I did not deserve happiness, there was not much of that growing up.. Susie


edt
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 773
   Posted 3/13/2009 6:40 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi ALL of my WONDERFUL friends,
I'm going to start with a question....what is forgiveness? Is forgiveness forgetting? Is forgiveness, remembering the situation without the emotional attachment? How do you really know when you have forgiven? This is a topic that has been discussed with me many times. We decided that forgiveness means different things to different people and I have concluded for me its getting past the situation and moving forward without the old emotion, not necessarily stuffing it just starting fresh! Does that make sense?
My biggest lesson came from my job. I worked for my boss for 21 years....I LOVED my work. I was his assistant and back office supervisor for 5 years, it was at that time, he decided to pursue becoming a Homeopath. He was tired of giving meds to people and seeing more and more sick people with CHRONIC FATIGUE and aches and pains that could NOT be explained. After many months of attending classes, he came back from a Seminar where he learned of a device (this may sound hoakey but it truly isn't) that could measure energy in the body at specific acupuncture points on the fingers and toes with a Probe...there is a computer program with 10,000 different electrical frequency of different viruses, allergens and the likes). It had a meter that went from 0-100 with 50 being the balancing point, if the readings were there it was a healthy meridian, above 50 was inflamed, below 50 was degerative. Put it all together and we could finally figure what was going on in the body, based on the results, you could treat patients with the correct nutrients, remedies etc. Okay, so he did his regular family practice during the day and Alternative treatment at night, I worked with him because I have always believed there was a better way to health, and I wanted to LEARN. So, when he got too busy to keep this up he integrated this into his regular practice and asked me if I wanted to learn how to do the testing. I was definitely ready.
He sent me for training, I already understood the program just needed to learn how to use the probe. We helped thousands of people and had a waiting list that was 3 mos. long. People that were diagnosed with depression and chronic illness were getting better. I worked 12 hour days which in my opinion was not long enough, I worked through lunch if someone needed to get in...crazy huh. To make a long story short the ergonomics were not correct, eventually I started to develop neck pain, arm pain, spasms etc. I was going to our chiropractors who treated diffently then the traditional snack crackle pop chiro's, so I would get relief and then go back and undo it by working. In May of 2000, I woke up one day and the pain was unbearable, later that day I started hearing a grinding sound, then I felt like I couldn't hold my head up.....the pain was getting worse, my arms were going numb....test were ordered....in the middle of the MRI, I could not take laying down anymore, I was crying for help and the tech told me to please let her finish, that I had a bad problem and would probably need surgery, but if we stopped at that point they would only make me repeat it. I can only tell you I was frightened. Of course, you know already from previous posts that there were 2 ruptures in the neck. THe next day I went to a Prolotherapy Dr. who told me he could not help me that I needed surgery ASAP. The next day I went to a well known NS who said I needed emergency surgery (this was Thursday) but the 1st opening was Tuesday. I thought I was having a nightmare HONESTLY.....I had to get a collar so that I would not move my neck or I would be paralyzed...IMAGINE this I layed there for another 5 days, took 2 percocet every 2 hours, and it did not touch the pain.... I honestly don't remember much....on the day of surgery they called and said they would have to reschedule me to the next day....I told them calmly that if they did that I was going to kill myself because I truly could not take one more day of this. So off to the Hospital we went, I was 2nd on the surgical list....I was moaning from the pain so loud (I don't remember this) that the man ahead of me told the Dr. to take me 1st because he was not as bad as the person next door, he was my ANGEL. So up I went, after a 9 hour surgery, the Dr. told me that the 3rd disc was also ruptured and that it was far worse then the MRI showed. I didn't care I felt relief...thank you God! So 23 hours later (can you believe this) I went home....I had pain but nothing like I had lived for the last 9 days, I always say I was forgiven for ALL or any mortal sins I committed in my life during that time lol. Anyway, I thought I would be back to work in 6 weeks.....nope it was 5 mos. to part time and 8 mos to full time. Now began my life of chronic pain, lots of injections, cold laser treatments anything anyone mentioned I tried. I kept this up. treatment, work undo, treatments work undo.....3 years later I came out of this stupor when another spinal injury occured, I felt a horrible shock go up my spine and then I started to develop numbness in the legs. I went to one of my Dr's and said SHOULD I BE WORKING? He said probably not....WHAT?????????, I continued working and band aiding all of my problems, have paid lots of money to try and fix myself and now you say I shouldn't have been doing my job all along. That was it, I gave notice and filed a Workers comp case because the repetitive motion is what caused the initial ruptures. SMACK big door, I was told I could not file for the initial injury because you only have 1 year to file after a work injury! I could claim the recent injury but that was it. I'm telling you I must have been in the ozone for the last 3 years. I felt so STUPID, but then I got really pssed at my boss WHY didn't he file a claim for me when I was out recouping? They told me if he had, even though I went back to work, when the time came that I couldn't, it would have been an instant win for me. I was crushed, I felt betrayed, I was sad, mad everything bad and of course I was at that point in so much pain that I was bedridden. So now I've left my job, need lots of Medical treatments, I'm on Cobra which was $400 per month, cheap compared to today. I did file for SS right away, but as you know it takes months to find out. Okay whatever, I find out in December (I filed in June) I am approved for SSD...now I have to wait 24 mos. for Medicare, thank God I have Cobra for the next 12 mos. HALT wait the phone rings its my bosses wife, telling me they can't keep me on their insurance, wait a minute I'm paying for this, this is the law...nope their lawyer told them they could drop me. So here I am in the middle of EXPENSIVE treatment and now I have no Insurance.....heres where I am growing very bitter, angry, etc. etc. Not only did I give my life to my job now after 21 years they have deserted me, no WC, no Ins., no Income boy I was drowning in self pity and pain. I ended up settling my WC claim (for the newest injury) which gave me enough to pay all the medical bills. I was unable to get insurance due to the fusion, oh I could get insurance with a $1500 premium and a disclaimer on the neck. Hows that for 21 years.
I did tell my boss how I felt and then I stopped communication with him because everytime I saw him or spoke to him, it was like salt in the wound. I went to people who did Cranial sacral work and emotional healing everything I could read on forgiveness was my main goal in life. I knew I could lay there and be bitter or move on with my life....I hungered for FREEDOM of this emotional injustice that in my opinion was forced on me! In the end I realized it was my own fault, that if I had put myself 1st I would have never allowed any of this to have occured to me, did I forgive this situation? I think so, I no longer have a pit in my stomach, I will never forget though, I did confront my boss about all of the above, he cried with me because my leaving changed his practice forever, I was his right hand and dedicated to him and his patients. They loved me and I loved them. Most of all I forgave myself.
I apologize to all of you, I just let my mind control the key board, I have not read what I wrote, I hope it makes sense and I hope you know that reliving this is just another step in my healing.
Thanks for listening!
XXOO
Patti

edt
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 773
   Posted 3/13/2009 6:48 AM (GMT -7)   
P.S. I just looked at the post time....I started to post at 5:30AM...I think I got lost in thought for parts of the post. Maybe I'll read it later! I can't right now.
XXOO
Patti

Chartreux
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 9622
   Posted 3/13/2009 7:43 AM (GMT -7)   
Wow Patti, after all you been through, I'm glad you were able to forgive..
Forgiving can be hard and it's not always someone else we need to forgive, but
ourselves and that can be the hardest thing to do...
{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Patti}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
and Thank You for sharing, your story is so remarkable (ment in a nice way)
I sure hope you can get insurance............
HUGZ
**********************************************
* Asthma, Allergies, Osteoarthritis, Spinal Stenosis, Degenative Disc, Fibromyalgia, Gerd, Enlarged Pituitary Gland
******** "We could never learn to be brave and patient if there were only joy in the world" from Helen Keller *********

********>^..^<********>^..^<********>^..^<********


White Beard
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 3611
   Posted 3/13/2009 8:22 AM (GMT -7)   

Patti

Thank-You for sharing your story, I can only imagine how difficult it was for you to write this and having all those memories flooding back up to the surface!

I can Identify with the way you started off your post! You asked:("I'm going to start with a question....what is forgiveness? Is forgiveness forgetting? Is forgiveness, remembering the situation without the emotional attachment? How do you really know when you have forgiven?")

You posed some very good questions!, And WOW what a very unfortunate and trying time you have had!  Believe it or not you,  like so many of us, really are blessed, and extremely lucky to have survived such an ordeal, and not be  at least paralyzed! I know CP does not sound like being blessed, but there are things far worse! And you like most of us have expressed the feelings of guilt, betrayal, and bitterness!

At the end you said ("I hungered for FREEDOM of this emotional injustice that in my opinion was forced on me! In the end I realized it was my own fault, that if I had put myself 1st I newould have ver allowed any of this to have occured to me, did I forgive this situation? I think so, I no longer have a pit in my stomach, I will never forget though, I did confront my boss about all of the above, he cried with me because my leaving changed his practice forever, I was his right hand and dedicated to him and his patients. They loved me and I loved them. Most of all I forgave myself.")
 
I think like so many things in life when we boil them all down to the basics, we find our selfs to be our worst enemy, or at least we think so!  I don't know if I fully believe that, any more! As you said ("that if I had put myself 1st I newould have ver allowed any of this to have occured to me,") but if you had,  what would have happened to all they people that you had helped? All those long hours that you spent, and missed lunches? All that time that you put toward helping others instead of looking out for your self,?  Wouldn't that all  have been lost? More and more I am beginning to think that maybe things in life just happen! Maybe there is no one at fault!. I don't know I look at what happened to you, maybe it was just meant to be! Maybe you have bad genes for your spine, I don't know, maybe it could be allot of other things! But why does it have to be anything??, Why do we have to have something or someone to blame? I have been reading so many peoples stories and my own , and I am beginning to think, that maybe we are all trying to forgive some things that doesn't really require forgiveness! Maybe, there just doesn't have to be a reason, or a person, or what ever, for some of these bad things that happen to us!.
 
I wish you only the best and may peace be always with You!
 
White Beard



 

I'm Retired USAF, went back to school and became an RN, and now am on ful disalbility!

Degenerative Disc (affecting mostly the thorasic disc but all levels involved), C6/7 laminectomy/diskectomy& fusion, Osteoarthritis, Ulcerative colitis, Chronic Pain, Fibromyalgia, Complex Sleep Apnea, and host of other things to spice up my life!(NOT!)

Medications: Oxycontin, Percocet, Baclofen, Sulfasalazine, Metoprolol, Folic Acid, Supplemental O2 at 3lpm with VPAP Adapt SV

Post Edited (White Beard) : 3/13/2009 9:34:36 AM (GMT-6)


edt
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 773
   Posted 3/13/2009 8:23 AM (GMT -7)   

Thanks Char.....that was in 2003.....I do have Medicare now!  Thank you for your hugs! I would say I FINALLY accepted everything as it is what it is....last year, long process for sure!

XXOO
Patti


edt
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 773
   Posted 3/13/2009 10:27 AM (GMT -7)   

White Beard,

Thank you for your kind words, I know that if I could do it all over again that I would do it exactly the same!  You are so right, some things are meant to be!  My reward is knowing that I did help so many people, I have much to be grateful for...I loved going to work everyday and in all honesty would love to be able to do it again!  I had my moment and I thank God that I was able to work through my disappointment and lack of support from my boss and his wife!  My regret really is that I didn't speak up for myself, when I felt they deserted me.  I am a believer that everything happens for a reason and in the order it is supposed to....darn if only we could control that one....lol!

I am very grateful that I was able to confront them in a loving way and then finally let it go.....forgiveness!

Thanks for posting this topic, I feel safe here with all of you to say things I usually hold back from my family and friends.  Most times when I say things they say I'm being negative but they are my thoughts that I need to say it (whatever it may be) and move on!  Just acknowledging things sometimes helps me release them!  I know all of my friends here understand this in the CP world we live in everyday!

Much love to all of you!

Patti 

 

 

 


mom9mom
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 489
   Posted 3/13/2009 10:58 AM (GMT -7)   
I have one thing to say about forgiveness.When you cannot find a way to forgive you need to put it in a imaginary box and bury it because if you keep it with you the only hurt your self.I know that it sounds weird but you just can not carry it around with you it hurts your soul to much.I have one item in my box and I buried it 5 feet deep a few years ago know I do not think about it so it never bothers me.When my twin sister died I went off the deep end and turned into someone that even I did not Know.I hurt my family over and over again until I could no longer stand the person that I had become.So I decided that my loved ones would be better off with out me.The DR`s gave me a ten percent chance of living.In this time when my body had to fight so hard to survive my sister came to me and told me that I had to go back that my family needed me and that she was sorry that she had to leave me.I had to forgive her for leaving me then I had to forgive myself for all that I had done not only to my family but to myself(That is still hard to do on days that I hurt).Since I learned to forgive myself I have found the person that I use to be and I think that in some ways I have become a better person. But I still can not help wishing that I would have got help for my depression and learned to forgive myself in a different way.I took a very very hard road to forgiveness but I am happy that I got here.
Lost half of my small intestineJan.2008.Ilieostomy for 5 months then reverst in June 2008,Nerve damage to right leg,part of my right hip bone removed Jan. 2008,Cronic pain,hernia,infection in my back called discites,and depression.Gallbladder removed Nov,2008.Surgery to fuse L3 and L4 vertabra Dec. 31,2008.Mother to 9 kids 7 boys 2 girls and 1 stepson.4 grandsons,9 grandaughters.4 of my grandkids I inherited from my twin sister who passed away 6 1/2 years ago from a blood clot after surgery.God has given me my life back after I almost lost it.Even though its a painful and sometimes hard road to walk I take it one step at a time and give thanks to god for every step I take.


straydog
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 13473
   Posted 3/13/2009 11:26 AM (GMT -7)   

Mom,

What a story and thank you so much for sharing it with us. What you went thru losing a sister is something I cannot fathom as you see I have not been down that road. I don't want to offend you by saying I understand, you can only truly understand if you have lived that particular thing yourself. At least that is my concept. I had a very good friend lose her only daughter to diabetes at the age of 13. I was not sure my friend was going to survive this. The one thing she told me was people coming up to her and saying I understand how you feel, when in fact they had never lost a child. She said how can they understand if they have not lived it. She said oh, I know they are trying to comfort me at a very difficult time and I appreciate that, but she said sometimes I feel like screaming have you lost a child. Do you know when she shared this with me it made a very big impact, because what she said was true. I can tell you how sorry I am for losing your sister and very sorry for what you went thru was horrible.

I agree with you about not forgiving, it eats at your very core, the bitterness can destroy people. Putting it in that box and burying was a very smart thing you did. It allowed you to start living again. Yes, you were able to find yourself again and it made you a much stronger person. It was a very hard road you took but some of us thats the only way we know to go. In your instance at that time that was the only road you saw as to somehow forget everything bad in your life. Your sister loved you very much that is obvious. Remember that love she has for you.
 
Mom whether you realize it or not you are a very remarkable woman, do not forget that. I know sometimes its easier to lose ourselves but oh its so hard to find us again, but it can happen. Hugs to you. Susie


Chartreux
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 9622
   Posted 3/13/2009 11:38 AM (GMT -7)   
Time heals all wounds,
Would so be easy if the answer was "Time"
but it might just be......
"Time"
Thanks for the heads up--PALady, I deleted it, sorry did not mean to offend...
**********************************************
* Asthma, Allergies, Osteoarthritis, Spinal Stenosis, Degenative Disc, Fibromyalgia, Gerd, Enlarged Pituitary Gland
******** "We could never learn to be brave and patient if there were only joy in the world" from Helen Keller *********

********>^..^<********>^..^<********>^..^<********

Post Edited (Chartreux) : 3/13/2009 5:27:15 PM (GMT-6)


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 3/13/2009 2:49 PM (GMT -7)   
Patti,
I don't want to write a lot now. I'm not there yet. It's incubating. Not necessarily bitterness (that is there) but clarity. FInding clarity enough to be able to speak what's buzzing in my head like a fly. I know this probably doesn't make sense! I just wanted you to know your post helped me move another inch or more toward that. Because sometimes I don't want to admit how much anger I still have at a former employer, supervisor and attorney who never did their jobs. I'm not ready to have my keyboard so full of tears...not yet. But I'm getting there slowly.

Mom - I just want to offer hugs. Sweet hugs to you and everyone who is sharing here.

I said earlier I don't think forgiveness means forgetting. We have memories. But it does mean letting go of the emotions that are attached to those memories. That's what does us in, right?

PaLady

Post Edited (PAlady) : 3/13/2009 10:37:33 PM (GMT-6)

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