My new grandson is in NICU

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angel8
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 109
   Posted 4/29/2009 3:03 AM (GMT -7)   
My grandson was born by C-section Monday and even though he seemed to be off to a good start at 6lbs15oz was moved to NICU early yesterday morning.
 
My son was 17 last year when he met and beyonds all his families urginf to be careful here got pregnant a 25 year old lady that had been married and had 2 children whom the state had taken for drug abuse. It wasnt long until she was pregnant.
 
She went into the detox unti at the teaching hospital here and then into a 30 day program and then to a house for unwed Mother where she stayed until she went to the hospital Monday morning to have him.
 
I knew from so many past experiences even though on the outside to others it looked as if she was doing the right things and I begged my son whom had by then turned 18 to fight for his child all to no avail for he too believed all he was being told by her and her family and the methadone clinics staff.
 
She went into the methadone clinic immediately after being treated with methadone while in the hospital detox program she first attended. All of that is not where the problem lies,the problem was in her lies.
 
She told them she was on a much higher dose then she actually was,she continued thru out her pregnancy to complain she was uncomfortable and they kept upping her dose until she delivered him on 120mgs a day via the methadone clinic for free since this is the policy if your pregnant,immediate acceptance and no fee.
 
My Grandson only minutes old was already showing symptoms of withdrawls as I stood watching them clean him in the window. I knew each yawn and gag, I knew each time he flexed his legs and drew them into his little hours old body again,each time he went into horrible tremors that seemed to shake him to his little core, I knew because I too have felt each of those things when my methadone levels dropped for whatever reason.
 
I hurt so bad for him and I was so angry at my Son and his S.O. I can remember early out begging pleading,dont do this to him,your son and her saying they said it was worse for me to stop the methadone now then keep taking it during the pregnancy.
 
I know several Mothers who have gone the route of the clinic, they wouldnt allow them to up their doses and made them slowly taper to the least amount and that clinic I know wouldnt have started her on the high dose and kept goingup is she had not allowed it and I know is she was ont uncomfortable tapering down he would have had no symptoms either and I look at her and it is all I can do to keep my mouth shut and walk away.
 
I am hurt and he hurts and he is know on phenobarbitol drip and in a iso room to keep him unstimulated and asleep as much as possible,he is not out bonding with his family where he should be,he is alone in that little room for hours on end attended to by staff to avoid awaking him and he feels horrible and the little fellow doesnt have any idea why.
 
I knew this was coming and I could do nothing. She didnt do any of the court appointed things she was required to do to get her other kids back and it has been 2 years, she will not by my feelings do anything to protect or care for him either or she would have already done it so as not to being him into this world so addicted he was minutes into withdrawls.
 
I am sick and devastated, I cannot raise him, I cannot support him, I dont imagine any court will hand him to me and my Son has not been an adult long enough realize that evil also comes in the faces of those whom we love and claim to love us.
 
I have cried, ranted raved, begged,prayed and cursed whatever powers that be for this all to no avail,he still is just in there hurting and his future is yet to be determined.
 
They assure me he will make it but the road can be long and filled with ruts as they very meds they need to treat him with and the methods of making him sleep all the time so he isnt hurting from w/ds will also allow to fail to thrive,not eat,gain weight etc.
 
How can she look herself in the mirror? How can she live with what she has done?
 
I blame not just her as I am as irate at my Son as her. He knew how she got pregnant he was naive. She went to the drug store several months before she actually was pregnant for those home tests,she was trying and he particpated knowing she was an addict and had ongoing problems with family services and her other kids had been removed from the home for drug addiction and neglect,he knew all of it and he still allowed her to convince him to get her pregnant.
 
I heard her say one time after she found out she was pregnant that she could now get into the methadone clinic for freee without the year or so waiting list the have here for the fee based clinic,the only one we have as the other 2 are private and very expensive.
 
Even Saturday she in the car coming back from her birthday party at her parents and returning to the home she was bragging about how much methadone she was going to get and how she would get take homes after the baby was born and not have to go there every morning to get dosed! I couldnt wait to get her out of my car, I cant stand to be around her and here she is the Mother,term used losely here of my only Grandson.
 
This is a road here I know not how to travel. I have made every scarifice possible for my kids, I have given the last of whatever I had for them and not blinked twice about it. I cannot fathom such blatant irregard for the health and life of one of my own.
 
My rights only go so far as a Granmother and one that is disabled,on methadone herself regardless of the circumstances I think and living hand to mouth already. I feel so helpless and useless to him.
 
I have a adult daughter whom is married and has been for 6 years,she has one child and a nice home and good job,never been in trouble of any kind and neither has her husband and she is his only hope I guess. She can petition the court if they step in and try to remove him from her and attempt to gain custody but she knows when she does she may gain a nephew to raise and lose a Brother in the process as he believes she does no wrong and he would take it as a insult against her.
 
At this point should we care what either of them think? Is my only concern my Grandson now and let my Son find his own way thru his own mistakes? What a difficult decision this one will be.
 
I didnt mean to go on but I need advice,prayers whatever you have in the way of comfort here and you all know I believe knowledge is power and the telling of the story in its entiriety will give you more thoughts.
 

mrsm123
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 1228
   Posted 4/29/2009 4:45 AM (GMT -7)   
Angel,
I am truly sorry for what you are going through. I know that you love your son, and are understandably angry at him and at her for allowing this to happen to that poor baby.
Your grandson will make it through this withdrawal, although it is harder on them than it is on an adult simply because they are so tiny and new, and all sounds, stimulation, and even cuddles can make it very hard on them since their nervous systems are still int he developing stages.
The NICU nurses are wonderful, all four of mine have had stays of varying lengths in NICU, and they will care for him as best they can.
As far as having your daughter step in, if it is needed, then by all means, that is what must happen. It does not sound like this sorry excuse for a woman /mother will step up and be a mother in the sense that this child needs. CPS will step in. Look into early childhood intervention services for your grandson. It is never too early to start him once he is through the withdrawal.
They may tell your son that if he wants custody of his son that he has to keep the baby away from the mother, and have no contact with her at all if he wants to keep his son, and your son may yet step up and become a father. I'm sure that he is scared for his son as well and doesn't know what to do at this point. You can help guide him by looking up information on the internet regarding drug usage/methadone usage and it's effects on babies in utero. It may open up his eyes about her and what his son is going to need.
I will keep your grandson and son in my prayers.
Sandi
PLIF/TLIF Fusion w/Instrumentation L4-5 Spondololysthesis L4-5.Laminectomies L4-5, foraminal stenosis L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, herniations L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, central canal stenosis L3-4, L4-5 and L5-S1
POST OP CES 3/30-06
Neurogenic Bladder and Bowel, bilateral numbness legs and feet
Revision for failed Back surgery, pseudoarthrosis L4-5, hemilaminectomies L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, bmp added to revision fusion, replaced two bent screws that were reversing out of vertebrae - August 2, 2007
On going back pain and neuropathic pain, failed back surgery, consult for scs, decided not to do that at this point.
Adhesive Arachnoiditis also......just what I didn't need..9/08- adding bilateral ulnar neuropathy with severe compression to the mix. They want me to see a surgeon for ulnar nerve surgery, but I'm not biting.
I've seen enough surgeons over the last few years.


edt
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 773
   Posted 4/29/2009 5:25 AM (GMT -7)   

Dear Angel,

I am so sorry for what your are going through!  I agree with Sandi!

If your daughter wants to step in, then she should.  You son is very young and doesn't realize yet, what is truly happening here! 

I will keep you and your family in my prayers!

((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((((Angel))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))

XXOO
Patti

 


Gretchen1
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3459
   Posted 4/29/2009 6:21 AM (GMT -7)   

Oh angel,

This gave me goosebumps.  I am sorry and you have my prayers for as long as you need them!  My heart aches for all of you.  I know those NICU nurses are giving him lots of nurturing and support.  I worry more about you!!  Make sure you are getting care for your hurts too!!!  This is rough stuff and you deserve love and support to get through this.

The evil of drugs just amazes me.  It seems that drugs and addiction can steal the soul.  It is truly horriftying.


Gretchen       co-moderator MS board       diagnosed with MS July 2006
 
I have no lesions on my soul and so I will live with no limits.


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 4/29/2009 10:10 AM (GMT -7)   
Angel,
I have very little time now so wasn't even able to read all the posts in this thread except yours. I will come back later, but I wanted to send you a warm, loving hug. You have been through so much. Yet to be handed another challenge. But I think part of the answer lies in the fact much of this is out of your hands. It has to be so painful to watch that little life struggle. But if it turns out your daughter can get custody, letting your son find his own way....well, I don't even want to finish this sentence. I think you know where I'm heading.

You have taught me so much already. I can only wish for the best for all of you.

((((((((((angel)))))))))))

PaLady

uniquelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 1037
   Posted 4/29/2009 10:14 AM (GMT -7)   
 
 
Angel,
I see this crap every day...and it makes me sick!! It seems like this "girl" only wanted to get pregnant so she could go to the "clinic" for free, what a life to aspire to.  The only advocate this child has is YOU...You may not be able to raise him, but you can sure make it possible for someone else too...If your daughter wants and can do it, then encourage it....I know you love your son, but come on...he knew what was going on, he still let her manipulate him into getting her pregnant...so, in my opinion, he doesn't need this child..or rather, he doesn't deserve this child in his life...at least not now.  That woman, and I use the term loosley, should be locked up and sterilized!! And not even trying to get her 2 other kids back!!! Oh, don't get me started..
 
I feel for you, you didn't do anything to deserve this girl in your life...And your son needs to XX her out of his life...Maybe you should call DHS in your state and get this baby removed from her care even before she could take him home...  I don't know.  I know how easy it is for "us" to tell you what you should do, but it's not easy to do it...
 
We are here for you Angel, anytime you need us...
My prayers to your grandson, you , and your son...
 
Me.

 I hate Boats!!!!
 
Post Lamenectomy Syndrome, Spinal Stenosis, DDD....
1999 Hemi Lamenectomy/2005 Spinal Fusion(L4-S1)
Methadone 120 mg. a day/15 mg. Oxycodone as needed(up to 4 x a day)
High Blood Pressure: Lisinopril HCTZ 10 mg. daily
Type 2 Diabetes: (March 16, 2009)
Metformin HCL ER 1000 mg. at night
                                                                    

 


shannon1
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 369
   Posted 4/29/2009 11:21 AM (GMT -7)   

I am so sorry about all of this....

I can only imagine that if the hospital is treating addiction in a newborn, that there must be some law that the hospital report it????

I have had two babies in NICU (tho for different reasons) and both were treated with love and respect. NICU is a HARD, horrible place to be, but it's best for your grandson right now. When he is moved to the step up unit, he will be able to be held/touched. Newborns are sooooo much stronger then we give them credit for! They are tiny, little fighters!

My babies were in NICU for 3wks and 4wks respectivly, and i spent 10 1/2 hr days there EVERY day, even on days i could not hold them. (tho they were not in isolation).  I can tell you, that i did not have a problem bonding with my little ones once they came home.

Good luck, and i also wanted to say that despite all the problems, congratulation on your grandchild.....your family will make the right choices for him....


Jan. 2009, complete hysterectomy, diagnosed stage 4 endometriosis & adenomyosis (age 36)
2003, dx moderate UC
2000, dx selective IGA deficiency w/ anti IGA antibodies
2000, dx Antipholipid Antibody Syndrome
1999-2009, chronic hemmoragic ovarian cysts, w/ partial ovary removal
1977, complete reconstruction of foot after lawnmower accident (chronic pain)
 
Meds
6mp 75mg, prednisone 40mg (just starting meds again)
percocet 5mg 3x day
potassium 3x day
 


Danimal
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 80
   Posted 4/29/2009 12:31 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Angel:

I'm so sorry to hear that you are going through this. I know you must be really worried about your grandson.

I did want to tell you though that I'm on methadone for pain and I want to get pregnant sometime soon. I found a maternal/fetal specialist at one of the best hospitals in the world to work with and he has assured me that there has been a ton of research and studies done on babies born to mothers who take methadone and the research shows that there are no long-term effects on the babies, once the babies are through the withdrawal period. I think it is a little different between women who take methadone for pain and women who abuse methadone (usually the first group of women access better prenatal care and that has affected study outcomes) but based on what this doctor said (and he has a lot of experience with this stuff), your grand-child should be ok. The doctors should be administering him low doses of the medication and he should be weaning off of it. The doctor told me that methadone babies do have a harder time sleeping and regulating their schedule in terms of knowing when to sleep and when to eat (and they are also more prone to crying) but, again, that is supposed to be during the time when they are weaning off. Finally, he said that breast feeding is really helpful for these babies because it helps with weaning off. Is this girl planning on breast-feeding??

I struggle with this whole idea a lot as I feel selfish about the idea of taking pain medication while I'm pregnant..though my doctor told me it would be bad for me to be in pain when pregnant because of the stress hormones on the baby. I am on 90 mgs right now and am hoping maybe I can reduce that and try to deal with the extra pain as best as I can. We'll see. I imagine they told this girl not to withdraw while pregnant because it would cause the baby a lot of stress.

Was this girl taking methadone because she was using heroin prior to being pregnant?

Again, I'm sorry you have to worry about all of this but I did want to stress to you that doctors do have a lot of experience with this and I am sure your grand-child is now in good hands. I would def. try to have a talk with your son at some point though (if you can)..just to make sure this girl is strictly on methadone maintenance and isn't into other drugs.

Hugs,
Danimal

Author of Chronic Stimulation- a blog about being young and in chronic pain and living with a neurostimulator.

Post Edited By Moderator (Lindaloo) : 5/6/2009 9:15:50 PM (GMT-6)


Danimal
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 80
   Posted 4/29/2009 12:40 PM (GMT -7)   
oh..I meant to ask..how old is your son now? Is he 18 or are you still his legal guardian? If he isn't, and you're his legal guardian, then you may be able to petition. Family law is not my area of specialty but I do know it's harder than you think to get a child permanently removed from a mother (and you would be looking at serious costs involved as well).

Try talking with your son first. If that does not work, you could call DHS. Most states have laws that require DHS to at least investigate the situation when a complaint is filed. (none of this is legal advice though!).

Chartreux
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 9622
   Posted 4/29/2009 1:10 PM (GMT -7)   
Awe, Angel so sorry you and your lil newborn grandson are going through this..
Yes it can be hard, nothing is ever certain in life, but hopefully the lil one will pull through this
It's amazing how these childern in the icu can over come things, my daughter had
open heart surgery (Aortic Stenosis) at just 12 days of life, I never did drugs or alcohol or anything bad when
I was pregnent and there was no heart problems on either side of the family, anyways
the doctors all told me my little one would be behind as she was on the heart lung machine for 20 minutes
and well thry just never had high hopes for her, Today she is 18 doing good is a nation merit scholarship finalist
is 8th in her class over 1,000 students and is in the national honor society, national spanish honor society and nation science
honor society and she loves to bowl, had a 230 game this year, plus she made state with flute and now choir as well, so
if by the grace of "the powers that be" that my child can succeed then please believe me that your little one can too
Keep hope, as that's all you got for now and get your son to get parental rights over this baby asap..
well wishes to you and lots and lots of soft hugz...
((((((((((((((((((((((Angel))))))))))))))))))))))
will says prayers for you.........
**********************************************
* Asthma, Allergies, Osteoarthritis, Spinal Stenosis, Degenative Disc, Fibromyalgia, Gerd,
Enlarged Pituitary Gland, Sjogren's and Ocular Migraines

********>^..^<********>^..^<********>^..^<********


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 4/29/2009 7:19 PM (GMT -7)   
Angel,
I know it will be difficult, but as I've thought about this I think if it was my grandchild and this mother was trying to retain custody without having demonstrated serious changes and stability (and likely be living in a supervised situation), I would call CPS and tell them all you know, tell them about your daughter, and get them involved in the case if the hospital hasn't already done so. Yes, you may alienate your son, but if your son can't see that the baby's needs have to be placed first, he's not ready to be a father on his own. One can hope in time he will find his way, but in the meantime these will be important days and months for this infant. In a way, being in NICU for awhile is a blessing because it may provide some time to juggle a few things.

I wouldn't trust that mother to oversee that child on her own. Agreed, legally you may not be able to do much but you can make sure CPS has all the relevant information, and visit your grandchild often and if there's any sign that baby's not being cared for properly, push CPS to take some action. The thing is, they may not just put the care in the hands of your daughter. It would be so much easier if the parents would agree to allow the child to be cared for by your daughter, but no one knows if they'll be wiling to do that.

You can only do your best. So much is out of your hands. I hope so much that the mother gets into treatment and a supervised setting, and doesn't attempt to take care of the child on her own, but that may not happen.

Know I am thinking of you and your family and sending healing hugs your way.

PaLady

bluejet2
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 487
   Posted 4/29/2009 9:00 PM (GMT -7)   
Angel:

I can't add much to what the others have already said, I just wanted to tell you that I will be thinking about and praying for you and your grandson.

skeye
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 2976
   Posted 4/29/2009 9:04 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Angel,

I just wanted to say how sorry I am that both you & your grandson have to go through all of this! It's awful. A baby is so helpless, it is their parents (and especially mother - at least while still in the womb)'s duty to protect them! That girl is not only destroying her own life, but the life of her innocent child. If you truly care about your child, then how could you be so selfish? I sure hope that she is not entrusted with that child again, unless she drastically cleans up her life & gets her priorities straight! Sending prayers to you & the baby!

Skeye

angel8
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 109
   Posted 4/30/2009 2:28 AM (GMT -7)   

Thanks to all of you for your thoughts and prayers.

1st let me say he is doing as well or better last night then they expected and his umbilical line was removed and he was started on p.o. phenobarb.

To answer a few of the questions that arose from the posts here, my son is now 18 so he is legally an adult.

She was not a heroin addict but addicted to pain meds of any kind and I think oxy was her drug of choice but it doesnt take these folks long to figure out that methadone gets them thru the w/ds when they cant find their drug of choice so she had been taking methadone as well as oxy when she could obtain it.

Her use was sporadic until she got pregnant and was automatically referred to the methadone clinic and like I said she wasnt exactly truthful with them as to how much she was taking on a regular basis. These guys are smart and know that the higher doses they claim to be on in the street gets them a higher starting and maint.dose via the clinic.

I see absolutely nothing in her entire 9 months of this pregnancy that convinces me she wants anything more for this baby then she did the other 2. She went immediately into detox at the hospital when she found out she was pregnant and she had already been told they wouldnt take her off methadone but start her on a maint.dose. From there she entered a 30 day program again attending the methadone clinic each day and after that she went to a home for unwed Mothers and they provided her with everything she needed her entire time there including taking her each morning to the methadone clinic and all appointments and expenses. She had a normal pregnancy and did really well.

She did not do what we thought she should be doing and that was trying to get ready for this baby. She has no home,no furniture,no prospects of a job of any kind,nothing short of what his family has gathered over the months for the baby. My thoughts were if they really wanted to take care of this baby together they would have been out here trying to find housing,jobs,gathering things they and the baby needed. Am I wrong here in this thinking?

Now he is here and what happens? She can either go back to the home for unwed mothers for 6 months or to family I guess but to me that isnt a solution,he needs and deserves his own home a place to grow up without having to be moved all the time.

CPS is involved since they took custody of her other kids and have been since she entered the detox,she isnt stupid by any menas and she knows how to work the system,she did what she had to do to insure they were off her back at the time. Now I dont know what happens,we are all walking on egg shells here to see what she does and what they do. Her parents got custody of her other 2 kids and I dont want him to end up there as I do NOT approve of them as parents,lets face it they had 2 daughters and both of them are addicts and have had all their children taken from them by CPS,if the did such a shoddy job raising their own how are they going to do with the grandkids? I know that may not be a fair appraisal but the Grandmothers been rumored to have a drinking problem and I did smell it on her at the hospital,since I dont drink at all I can usually smell it a mile away! The Grandfather is a step-parent to babies Mother and he lost his job a few months back and hasnt seem to be looking to hard to find another one. They live in a mobile home park that isnt the best of its kind here and has a very rough reputation.

I do want to point out here that this state pays kinship money to grandparents raising grandkids and it is more then welfare payments! To be honest I am not all sure that money isnt the motivator here as neither one of them is working and they are drawing full benefits on both of her other kids they have and now Kadan(my grandsons name) will mean another $500 payment as well as the foodstamps.

Now you might ask yourself how these folks end up being choosen to be the best bet for custody? I have asked but it seems Grandparents are the next best bet if parents of the child cant keep them.

Grandmother 2 here made a scene at the hospital when my Son signed the release to allow them to treat the baby with phenobarb for w/ds. She thought he would be better off fighting it without anymore meds. Even though he was visually uncomfortable and hurting.

I dont know what the answer to any of this is and it is weighing heavy on my sanity at this point. Yes I think she uses pregnancy as a way to get into methadone treatment and since all of these kids are being paid for by the state funds and being sustained on state funds by the tax payers money it enrages me that there isnt a law to stop them from having anymore. In saying that NO they did not tie her tubes or sterilize her in anyway so she is free to do this again.

The Father of the other 2 does not pay any child support nor does she and I certainly think the law should be after both of them to do so. I worked many years and would never deny a child the money to be taken care of by my tax money but it is situations like this that certainly enrage me and must others.

I can barely give my 11 year old the necessary things in life on SSD and I cant qualify for one dime of welfare for her and her Dad isnt paying child support either! Have they arrested him? No and he has missed the last 4 review dates in court. There is something very worng in our systems here that allow this kind of thing to happen and keep happening over and over. How many kids can she have and the tax payers take care of? I know several girls that have had more then her and CPS has removed all of those kids and they still have more.

Dont mean to rant here but where does it end? If they didnt make it so easy for these kinds of things to happen then maybe they wouldnt happen?

Thanks Danimal for sharing your insights and info that you have and I can only say to you to try to wean yourself down to the lowest possible dose before getting pregnant since it seems once there they feel weaning and any w/ds at all is more dangerous then the methadone to the unborn.

I am angry at my Son and he should have tried not to let himself be blinded by this person and he knew better for sure as we have always had a very open relationship when it came to talking about sex and the outcomes of those urges. He knew how she got pregnant and thats a given!

He has not done anything either to try to make a place in this world for his Son and I know he loves him now that he is here but once she went into detox and then the home he was not a close participant in the pregnancy so I think it was all sureal to him until he was born. He didnt get to go to Doc appointments with her,he wasnt there when his son started moving and kicking and he didnt follow his growth in the womb since she chose to shut us and him out of all that by taking care to insure she jumped thru CPS hoops for her own benefits.

I am hoping now that he is here and my Son realizes this is real and that if he doesnt protect his baby boy who will?

I hope she looses some of her dazzle in his eyes after watching his son suffer thru this. If he doesnt my daughter and I will do what we have to do to protect the baby even at the cost of alienating my Son. He is after all an Adult now! Lessons come hard but come they must.

Thank you all and I will keep you updated and as soon as they get his pic on the hospital web page I will post it for all to see. It is taking longer then normal since he is on NICU.


Pamela Neckpain
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 1821
   Posted 4/30/2009 5:18 AM (GMT -7)   
Angel,

I am sorry for all that you're going through. The situation is sad but the part that
just clutches my heart is that he is not getting the bonding with his family that
he needs. Sad. Sad.

Your son IS a kid. An experienced woman could be a heady experience for him. He's
regretting it now.

Next time around, he'll be a little older and a whole lot wiser.

Pamela
MEDICAL CONDITIONS

Osteoarthritis all levels of spine right down to Coccyx,Spondilytis,Myofascial Pain
Fibromyalgia,Bulging Discs,Spinal Stenosis,Scoliosis,Osteopenia,Chronic Constipation
Carpel Tunel Syndrome, Attention Deficit Disorder,
Depression & Anxiety

Methadone for Pain, Xanax for Anxiety, and more, of course.


anice
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 536
   Posted 4/30/2009 11:07 AM (GMT -7)   
Angel, I am so sorry to hear about your grandson. It seems so wrong that the innocent little guy should have to go through this.I am a nurse in a pediatric office. We had a patient that was also born addicted to methadone. I remember feeling so angry that the innocent little newborn had to withdrawal from a drug that his mother willingly choose to use while pregnant. He was allowed to be discharged in her care and sent home with weaning doses of methadone. I also remember getting phone calls wondering why her baby was crying so much. . It was a big challenge for me as a nurse,I knew I had to remain professional. They were followed very closely by home health and CPS. It seems that now that particular mother has learned a lesson and has stopped using herself also. It is so terribly wrong for your grandson to have to go through this. My heart does go out to you and your family. I will keep you in my prayers. I hope that your daughter is allowed to care for this precious child and given a chance to be with someone who wants him,loves him and has his best interests at heart. It is a disgrace how your son was pulled into this obvious scheme of hers to become pregnant. He is just a kid himself. God bless this precious baby. I truly hope that all works out for you and your family.
Anice

PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 4/30/2009 12:33 PM (GMT -7)   
Angel,
The tough thing to accept with addictions is that behavior is no longer rational. Sometimes we look at it and say why could someone do such a thing, and we're thinking through rational eyes. But once under the influence of substances that aren't prescribed rationality goes out the window. Also, there's a genetic component to addiction and no one can choose that. I am not defending this mother's behavior, but it will be easier on you if you try to focus on what's in your ability to do to help the baby, rather than anger at her. And I know this may be hard to here, but your son is old enough to be making choices about his involvement all along the line. If he had wanted to, he could have fought to be a part of the pregnancy. Please don't take that as anything bad about him, but 18 is old enough to make choices and I don't think he's helpless. If he wanted to fight for custody he could. I don't think he will, though, unless it's with your help (like you need this!).

That being said, regarding the grandparents it sounds like there may be some evidence there of abuse or addiction (remember the genetics piece) and if you can prove that, it may make custody issues take a different turn in your favor. Try to work with CPS, and help them see you are looking out for the best interest of the child in this. If they think it's just become an angry battle, then your opinions will mean less.

I hope that your daughter is able to take this baby, as it sounds like that's what's in the best interest. Even if she offers to be the foster mother, with strict guidelines over visitation. They usually don't sever parental rights unless there's clear evidence, and if this mother knows how to play the system she'll know how to prepare for home visits and such.

There's just only so much you can do and I know it must break your heart.

Hugs,

PaLady

Chartreux
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 9622
   Posted 4/30/2009 1:01 PM (GMT -7)   
Angel, try to find the social worker there at the hospital maybe she can get you
hooked up with people to get help, your doing a good job so far, keep us posted when you can
and prayers are with you and your grandson....
**********************************************
* Asthma, Allergies, Osteoarthritis, Spinal Stenosis, Degenative Disc, Fibromyalgia, Gerd,
Enlarged Pituitary Gland, Sjogren's and Ocular Migraines

********>^..^<********>^..^<********>^..^<********


angel8
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 109
   Posted 5/1/2009 2:38 AM (GMT -7)   

I am so grateful for all of the words of wisdom coming from here and the prayers and thoughts can never be too many.

I knew at a time such as this I was not going to be able to be rational and think straight,the anger was far too great and getting in the way.

He is holding his own steadily right now and eating good.

Me and baby won a victory yesterday. The NICU nurses were being extremely adamant over her breast feeding,they were almost to to the point of being forceful. She being Mom didnt seem like she wanted to but in the end turns out she did and was just telling us what we wanted to hear as always.

I had already discussed this with several different Nurses and voiced my concerns about him getting methadone still thru breast milk and they just shrugged me off like an idiot whom didnt know what I was talking about.

The Peds Doc came in yesterday during feeding time and my Son had evidently been listening to me even though I didnt think he had. He asked the Doc why the Nurses were forcing them to breast feed and and he got the little ditty over how much better it was for Kadan and I couldnt agree more but, she is still using alot of meds at the hospital including her regular dose of methadone, 2 perc 7.5mgs every 4 hours and believe me she is asking every 4 hours,and then there the baby is being loaded up with pheno-barb to fight off the worst of the w/ds.

The Peds Doc told my son after him inquiring about just that the benefits of breast feeding outweigh the little amounts of methadone she is on passing to him!! My son said what amount are we talking about here and the Doc said I encourage anyone on less then 40mgs a day to continue to breast feed. OMG! She is on 120mgs recall? When the Doc saw all of our stunned faces he asked why? How much are you on? Shouldnt he have known that by now after 4 days of treating him? When she told him 120mgs he yelled " No NO NO stop absolutely NO more breast milk!" He got the Nurse and told her the same and she looked at me with such a condescending look I almost went off! This is the same Nurse that was being nasty and forceful with all of us over breast feeding.

Why do things like this get missed? Why didnt those Nurses know and bring to the attention of the Doc? Why couldnt they have listened to my concerns? I realize I am just a lowly Grandmother but one who has spent 25 plus years in the medical field and raised 5 kids and a grandbaby for 5 years.

Now all they have accomplished this week was to load him up via the breast milk on methadone,oxycodone and the pheno-barb! It looks like now he has to stay at least until next Tuesday in Nicu and Mom is being released today.

I dont know how we are going to afford the travel money to go back and forth to the hospital to feed him every 4 hours as we live round trip 68 miles from there. I barely have been able to scrape up the money to leave my son with to eat while he has been up there this week and he wouldnt leave the hospital no matter what. Then here is another example of how this hospital failed to help this kid,someone another pateint told us yesterday that if we went to the Chaplan they would give him free meal cards to eat. Doesnt help now after I have spent money I didnt have and they are leaving today.

This isnt the state medical care center this is a supposedly best Baptist hospital in infant care in this state.

There is no way I can rent us a motel for the weekend and we dont know anyone there to stay with other then my alcoholic brother whom becomes very voilitale when drinking and no one not even me can stand to be around him.

My son will sleep in the car before he leaves his son there and not be there for every feeding. I have to say that he is standing by and fighting for his son now with everything he has in him but he is still very young and naive but I see changes him this week I wouldnt have guessed possible.

I just wish he had fought this earlier when she was doing all this lie telling and deceiving the clnics and Docs but I am glad he is seeing light in her now.

I will discuss all of this today with the hospital social worker and see what if any suggestions they may have. I do know my daughter is getting all her paperwork and stuff together and has spoke to an Attorney so she will be that far ahead in the game if and when she has to step up and fight for her nephews custody. Baby's Mom knows nothing of any of this as I think at this point it is probably better not to let her think we are even thinking along the terms of fighting her Mom or her for custody as she wont see it as anything other then a attack on her and her family.

I will be ready and I am thinking of only my Grandson in all if this and if feelings get hurt then it is just so.

I thank all of you again for your prayers and comforting words and especially the wisdom of those standing outside looking in,it is difficult to make the right choices when nothing but emotions are at stake.


mrsm123
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 1228
   Posted 5/1/2009 6:02 AM (GMT -7)   
The nurses didn't know because she didn't tell them.
I am going to tell a story here and I know that it is not going to win me any friends but it is the truth.
I developed RSD after a botched shoulder surgery. For 7 long years I dealt with it. I had what I thought was my last child two months before that surgery.
5 years into the RSD treatment, and 15 years into my infertility problems, I became pregnant. I was on 80 mgs, three times a day of methadone, 300 mcg of fentanyl, along with 3600 mg of neurontin and 1050 mg of soma, along with several others medications to keep the RSD from making me want to cut my arm off literally each day. I found out that I was pregnant (10 weeks along at the time I found out). I immediately made an appointment with my gyn, who promptly sent me to see a fetal high risk pregnancy doctor, and my PM. All of them made the decision for me that I needed to stay on the meds that I was on, except for the soma and a few of the other what I called my minor drugs.
I came home, upset, scared and horrified from those appointments that they could want me to stay on any of the medications since I had read that they could cause withdrawal in a newborn. I decided to take myself off them, and I did. However, once I told the doctors what I had done, they insisted that I stay on the methadone, telling us that that a flare of the RSD would be worse for the baby than staying on the methadone would. I was even told that the baby would not suffer any withdrawal if I did.
I had a ton of misgivings but at that point, I was told that I already may have put us in jeapordy doing what I did, stopping all of the medications that I had and there were a total of 16 a day that I was on prior to finding out that I was pregnant. And honestly, I trusted my ob/gyn , and the opinion of the perinatalogist/high risk pregnancy doctor. After all , it was her specialty.
When our son was born, he did really well until about 16 hours after birth. I noticed that his jaw was clenched, and he was holding his legs and arms tightly to his chest. I called the nurses and told them that I thought that he was starting to go into withdrawal. They all knew ahead of time why I was on the medications ( it was obvious to everyone since I had no use of my right arm and hand). Anyway, he went to NICU. He was started on meds and slowly titrated to the correct dose to stop the withdrawal. I can tell you all that I have never felt so darn guilty in my entire life that my son, the one that I had carried , wanted for so long, fought to try to have all those years , was suffering and it was because I listened to those doctors. I was a basket case, beyond horrified that I had done this to him, and that he would have to suffer because of me. The nurses our son had in NICU were wonderful, and not a one of them ever looked at me, blaming me. I was there, every second of every day with our son, as was my husband. When I came home, when my husband was at the hospital I was home , for short periods , long enough to shower and change my clothes , only to go back after I was done doing that. The nurses would tell us to go home , to get some rest, and sometimes, we did, usually until his next feeding time, when we could be with him again. We were on the phone with the nurses, if we were not there. I think that we made them sick of us, but they never said so. They were so supportive of me, and knew that I was suffering a horrible guilty conscience, but still my doctors were insisting that I had done the "right thing". I only know this, it sure didn't feel right to me. Not seeing what I did. Our son spent not quite a month in the hospital, and we never wavered in how often we were with him, or calling the few times that we went home to change clothes and shower. It was the longest month of my life, until he was discharged to come home. That day, there was not a dry eye in NICU when we left, and I never have gotten over what I felt about that whole thing. In fact, the tears are streaming now, remembering all of this.
CPS was not called in our case, I had a well documented, medical reason to be on methadone, and my doctors, the NICU staff, everyone at the hospital all knew and were extremely supportive of me, my husband.
I wanted to tell you , that your grandson hopefully will not suffer long term problems. Our son turned 9 yesterday. He is all boy, with the sunniest disposition of any child that I know. He has no long term effects, despite the withdrawals he went through. Mom, on other hand, always carries that guilt.....I guess the doctors were right, in that he wouldn't be "harmed" by it, but let me tell you.....mom was and still is.
I hope that once your grandson is through this , that he will be like our son, happy, healthy and full of
"boy" as we call it. I am so upset reading that this girl has been lying to the doctors about the amount of medications that she is on, and that she is breastfeeding! She knows that most hospitals with NICU's make accomodations for the parents, and yes, do give things like long term parking passes, meal tickets, even beds are made available to the parents in the parents room to stay with their child at the hospital. Tell your son to talk to the Social Worker, she can get those things arranged for him . Tell him to make it clear that he wants to be there with his son during this as often as he can be and he has no other resources to stay in the area. She can make those things happen for him.
Her, on the other hand, I will be surprised to hear that she shows up much, other than if she thinks that it will make her look good.Although she might, now that she is no longer pregnant because she will need some documentation for the clinic.
Bless this baby and your son for standing up and trying to do right by his son. I hope that he continues to do so. And I also hope that he sees her for what she really is and does something to protect his son.
Sandi
PLIF/TLIF Fusion w/Instrumentation L4-5 Spondololysthesis L4-5.Laminectomies L4-5, foraminal stenosis L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, herniations L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, central canal stenosis L3-4, L4-5 and L5-S1
POST OP CES 3/30-06
Neurogenic Bladder and Bowel, bilateral numbness legs and feet
Revision for failed Back surgery, pseudoarthrosis L4-5, hemilaminectomies L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, bmp added to revision fusion, replaced two bent screws that were reversing out of vertebrae - August 2, 2007
On going back pain and neuropathic pain, failed back surgery, consult for scs, decided not to do that at this point.
Adhesive Arachnoiditis also......just what I didn't need..9/08- adding bilateral ulnar neuropathy with severe compression to the mix. They want me to see a surgeon for ulnar nerve surgery, but I'm not biting.
I've seen enough surgeons over the last few years.


Chartreux
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 9622
   Posted 5/1/2009 6:09 AM (GMT -7)   
If you contact the social worker at the hospital she/he might be able to get you into the
Ronald McDonald House and you'd be able to stay there... I stayed in the Ronald McDonald House
So aask about this please, it's part of the social workers job...please contact them...
HUGZ.......
**********************************************
* Asthma, Allergies, Osteoarthritis, Spinal Stenosis, Degenative Disc, Fibromyalgia, Gerd,
Enlarged Pituitary Gland, Sjogren's and Ocular Migraines

********>^..^<********>^..^<********>^..^<********


mom9mom
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 489
   Posted 5/1/2009 7:59 AM (GMT -7)   
So much has already been said that all I can say is that I understand your pain for your grandson and son.My daughter-in-law was on meth for a long time and I have seen what it has done to my granddaughters.I will pray for all of you.
Lost half of my small intestineJan.2008.Ilieostomy for 5 months then reverst in June 2008,Nerve damage to right leg,part of my right hip bone removed Jan. 2008,Cronic pain,hernia,infection in my back called discites,and depression.Gallbladder removed Nov,2008.Surgery to fuse L3 and L4 vertabra Dec. 31,2008.Mother to 9 kids 7 boys 2 girls and 1 stepson.4 grandsons,9 grandaughters.4 of my grandkids I inherited from my twin sister who passed away 6 1/2 years ago from a blood clot after surgery.God has given me my life back after I almost lost it.Even though its a painful and sometimes hard road to walk I take it one step at a time and give thanks to god for every step I take.


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 5/1/2009 11:47 AM (GMT -7)   
Angel,
I'm impressed with your son. He is starting to step up. Let's hope he continues, because he has the strongest legal case as the biological father. As has been suggested, please have him call the hospital social worker - usually there are social workers for inpatient and outpatient units, and explain the financial difficulties. If you can't get anywhere there, call the hospital chaplain and ask him/her to help intervene to get your son the resources he needs to stay close by. It doesn't matter if he's not religious.

You've been a nurse so you know what documentation is like. That's what the courts will see. So I would encourage you to "purge" all your anger (and it's understandable and justifiable) here, in a private journal, talking to friends, whatever, so that whenever you're dealing with doctors or nurses or social workers (always assume they're going to document) you come across as calm and concerned and caring only for the baby's welfare. You can be firm, but be careful about the anger - although I suspect you already know this. I know it's hard, but CPS tends to block out families who are fighting, and figure they're all just acting like children and that CPS has to make all the decisions. If you and your son and family look like the rational, caring ones, that too will be documented for the judge. And make sure it's documented somewhere about how much methadone she was taking. It would be interesting to know if the nurses really knew that, or like Sandi suggested the mother was not honest with them. If she lied about that, it's a crucial piece of evidence about her fitness as a parent. Of course, she was reluctant to breast feed. But in the end she did, right? And she knew what dose she was on. So although it might be tricky so sort out in a way that makes it clear on the record, it would be good to know if she told the nurses that she didn't want to breast feed because was taking so much methadone. Had it been me or most of us, we would have demanded the doctor come in for a consult, and definitely not given our babies that breast milk no matter what! Lots of babies survive on formula and do quite well. Like me, for instance!

Anyway, you're doing an angel's job. And we're here to support you in whatever ways we can. I'm so glad your daughter is consulting a good attorney - and ask her to even check about her being a foster parent if that's the best that can happen initially.

Hugs,

PaLady
p.s. Sandi - thanks for opening that old wound to help someone else. Hugs to you, too!

Post Edited (PAlady) : 5/1/2009 12:51:19 PM (GMT-6)


mrsm123
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 1228
   Posted 5/1/2009 1:47 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks PA Lady. It is a wound that will never heal, at least for me, but it is so applicable to this situation, in regard to the outcome for that poor baby.
I can't imagine being a parent, having an infant that was going through withdrawal and if you have never seen an infant going through it, I can assure you that you not only do not want to see it, you certainly don't want to be responsible for it. It is the most heartwrenching thing to see that there is I think. I have never been able to forgive myself and I held myself and my doctors responsible for it. I can't fathom her not telling her nurses and doctors what dose she was on since that is how they determine how much medication to give him is converting her daily dosage to one for an neonate and dividing it by however many doses. She's been adding to his daily dosage by breast feeding knowing that they had no idea how much methadone and other meds she is taking. He may very well exhibit more withdrawal symptoms because of them cutting off her breast feeding now, but they can adjust his meds to make him more comfortable.
Sigh, I have been kicking myself all day for posting what I did before. It's the first time that I have ever talked about it with anyone other than my doctors and my husband.
This whole subject is too close to my heart and I just want to shake her for doing what she did to that baby.
Sandi
PLIF/TLIF Fusion w/Instrumentation L4-5 Spondololysthesis L4-5.Laminectomies L4-5, foraminal stenosis L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, herniations L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, central canal stenosis L3-4, L4-5 and L5-S1
POST OP CES 3/30-06
Neurogenic Bladder and Bowel, bilateral numbness legs and feet
Revision for failed Back surgery, pseudoarthrosis L4-5, hemilaminectomies L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, bmp added to revision fusion, replaced two bent screws that were reversing out of vertebrae - August 2, 2007
On going back pain and neuropathic pain, failed back surgery, consult for scs, decided not to do that at this point.
Adhesive Arachnoiditis also......just what I didn't need..9/08- adding bilateral ulnar neuropathy with severe compression to the mix. They want me to see a surgeon for ulnar nerve surgery, but I'm not biting.
I've seen enough surgeons over the last few years.


mom9mom
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 489
   Posted 5/4/2009 7:50 AM (GMT -7)   
mrsm Just want to say how sorry that this little guy and your family have to go through such a sad ordeal and I hope every thing will work out good for the baby and you,and your son.

Lost half of my small intestineJan.2008.Ilieostomy for 5 months then reverst in June 2008,Nerve damage to right leg,part of my right hip bone removed Jan. 2008,Cronic pain,hernia,infection in my back called discites,and depression.Gallbladder removed Nov,2008.Surgery to fuse L3 and L4 vertabra Dec. 31,2008.Mother to 9 kids 7 boys 2 girls and 1 stepson.4 grandsons,9 grandaughters.4 of my grandkids I inherited from my twin sister who passed away 6 1/2 years ago from a blood clot after surgery.God has given me my life back after I almost lost it.Even though its a painful and sometimes hard road to walk I take it one step at a time and give thanks to god for every step I take.

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