Oh the pain of it all.

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Hara
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Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 5/31/2009 12:50 AM (GMT -7)   
My pain usually come with what I am doing at the time. I went swimming today for about 20 minutes with my son. Then about an hour after that I could feel the pain coming about 5 hours later I could hardly walk.
 
As for Migraines or Headaches. I was at physical therapy the other day and I was in there for my back pain and as the session went on I started getting a really bad tention headache....gurrr
 
HARA

PAlady
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Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 5/31/2009 1:24 AM (GMT -7)   
Hara,
I'm up in the wee hours, too. One thing I wondered - I have chronic neck as well as lumbar spine problems. I have found that I need to request a cervical pillow, or some other way of insuring my neck is in proper alignment when I'm at my PT's. Strange, as he's a good PT and one would think that would be automatic, but it's not. So I wonder what position you're in during PT. If your neck isn't properly supported that might contribute to a tension headache. Just a thought.

I hope you are feeling better soon.!

PaLady

Hara
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Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 5/31/2009 2:34 AM (GMT -7)   
I was in a standing position at the table they had in a room there. PT guy was telling me to do back bends, 10-20 every hour and to write down what and where my pain is and what it's like. *rolls eyes* After I did what he wanted me to do I came out with a headache. I told him about it and he says, "I didn't do it." I said back to him, "Everything is connected. Don't tell me you didn't aggrivated my headache." lol
 
HARA

edt
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Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 773
   Posted 5/31/2009 6:46 AM (GMT -7)   

Hara,

I think I understand what happened to you.....doing back bends?  Sure makes sense to me that you did flare a migraine, like PA says if your neck is not supported it can definitely cause muscle tension, spasm etc. leading to headaches!  I'm having trouble understanding why he would want you to do something that could possibly cause pain?  

When I am in my Pool I feel so good, I've always said if I could live in the water, my pain level would be sooooo much better.  In the past I was always overdoing in the water with my PT exercises because you don't feel what you've done till hours later.  After a few episodes of not being able to walk or barely move my arms hours after, I've learned to go easier on certain movements.

I have a triple fusion of the neck, so regular swim movements are out, there is no support for the neck and the arm movements are way too much.  Try using a boogie board or a noodle for support. this made all the difference for me. My PT gave me a program to follow and was always asking me if I were entering a Swim Meet when she caught me doing more then I was supposed too! I hear her voice when I feel myself doing it now....makes me laugh!
Hope you feel better soon!

XXOO
Patti


PAlady
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Date Joined Nov 2007
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   Posted 5/31/2009 12:38 PM (GMT -7)   
Hara,
Back bends? In all my years (decades, really) of PT I've never had anyone give me back bends as an exercise.

Considering that PT's defensive reaction to your complaint, if it was me I wouldn't be going back to him. I've been hurt by PT's with arrogant or nonchalant attitudes, yet a good one is a godsend.

But you've got to make the decision that feels best for you.

PaLady

Hara
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Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 5/31/2009 3:28 PM (GMT -7)   
I'm going to ask for a different PT person and I'm going to look up some stuff to do other-than what I know for strengething back exercises.
 
HARA

skeye
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Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 2976
   Posted 5/31/2009 6:20 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Hara,

I'm sorry to hear that you are hurting & that PT caused you such a headache! Just what you need, right?! I'm glad that you are going to look into getting a different physical therapist. Like PA, I've also been hurt by PT's. I honestly have lost all trust in PT's, as every one that I've had except one (and I didn't have her for long, because she had surgery herself several weeks after I started & didn't return until I was nearly finished) - I've counted at least 6, maybe more - has either had a major God complex, or turned out to be a real jerk (to put it lightly). One PT basically caused me a second shoulder surgery. The important thing is to speak up. If something hurts too much, don't do it! And don't let them tell you otherwise.

The PT that precipitated my second shoulder surgery did not listen to me, and hence my shoulder was "re-injured" just 2/3 wks post-op (I say "re-injured" because it was actually a different injury, although it involved the area that I had just had fixed). After that I suffered for nearly 2 years, before we realized that I had seriously damaged all the ligaments in my joint capsule (I kept complaining of pain, but the doc just thought it was post-op pain & inflammation and that I was a very slow healer - which I actually am. I accepted that for a long time, until I made things even worse by returning to my sport, despite extremely limited practice & competition and heavy favoring of my good shoulder - which eventually lead to its downfall, but that is another story in itself.). Well, the point of all this rambling is that it was partially my fault as well, because I should have demanded that she stop immediately because I knew that my surgeon did not allow my to do the movements that she was making me do until four to six months after surgery!! And this lady was supposedly a PT who specialized in shoulder rehab.

So the moral is: Trust your body & only your body, & don't do it if it hurts too much. Don't allow anyone to do/make you do something you don't want to do, are scared to do, is hurting you, or you know your doctor doesn't allow. And listen to your doctor's instructions, although some PT's may claim to be gods, they aren't! Your doctor's instructions (PT guidelines) are more important than theirs!

I apologize if my attitude offends you or anyone else. I know that there are good, even great PT's out there. I've just had rotten luck, which has made me lose my trust & I don't want anyone else to be hurt!!'

Skeye

Post Edited (skeye) : 5/31/2009 7:23:50 PM (GMT-6)


Chartreux
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 9622
   Posted 5/31/2009 7:31 PM (GMT -7)   
Awe Hara, so sorry you got stuck with this jerk of a PT, but like everything there are good
ones and bad ones and I sure hope you can get a good PT person soon..
Good luck and well wishes on this..
Lots of soft HUGZ coming your ways..
(((((((((((((Hara))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))
**********************************************
* Asthma, Allergies, Osteoarthritis, Spinal Stenosis, Degenative Disc, Fibromyalgia, Gerd,
Enlarged Pituitary Gland, Sjogren's and Ocular Migraines

********>^..^<********>^..^<********>^..^<********


straydog
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 13481
   Posted 5/31/2009 8:20 PM (GMT -7)   
I am with PaLady on this one. I have been and done more PT than the law ought to allow, for both my neck, shoulder, back and both knees. Never in my life did I ever do a back bend. I think I would be scouting me out another place. Then to have the guy say I did not do it-I would be out of there. Susie


Hara
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 5/31/2009 11:54 PM (GMT -7)   
I wish I could just walk out of there but I only have 5 more PT appointments that insurance will pay for. I'm going to call them tomorrow and request a different P Therapist.
 
HARA

modelmaker
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 168
   Posted 6/1/2009 12:05 AM (GMT -7)   
I'm with PAlady and Susie on PT,

Most of the PT people I have been to do not know how to (or more to the point, not to) treat a patient with spinal fusion. They just don't seem to understand that with fusion you lose motion and flexibility in that part of the spine. In addition, by forcing movement, especially bending back, you can inflict loads of pain and do some damage. I actually had one PT idiot work on me (very briefly) with ipods in his ears! To put it mildly, I have not had any success with PT and my back. I do not want to do anything that causes unnecessary motion at the spinal joints above and below the fusion. Those areas are already getting an excessive beating in normal, everyday activities because of the fusion. I guess they don't train for that in PT school.

The muscles in the area around the fusion have atrophied because they don't get used because of the fusion. Now I walk with a forward-leaning gait that limits my walking time. All a result of the extensive fusion. Funny, they don't tell you all these things before the fusion surgery!

Hope all you other night owls are having a low pain early morning.

Modelmaker
Degenerative disc disease since 1985, 4 back surgeries, fused from L2-S1, instrumentation. Being treated for chronic pain. Oxycodone 30 mg. IR. Candidate for SCS in the future.


Hara
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 6/1/2009 1:10 AM (GMT -7)   
I don't have spinal fusion at this time. I had x-rays taken and they looked really good except for a possible Pars Defect which you can see on the x-ray.Plus I have hip spurs if you can believe that. HAHA
 
HARA

BionicWoman
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 243
   Posted 6/1/2009 8:30 AM (GMT -7)   
Sounds to me like that PT was using the McKenzie method exercises.. specifically the extension in standing exercise. I've never found any of them to be useful, and they've always caused me more pain than they've resolved.

McKenzie method said...


Stand upright with your feet slightly apart. Place your hands in the small of your back with your fingers pointing backwards and your thumbs pointing forwards.

Bend your trunk backwards at the waist as far as you can, using your hands as a fulcrum. It is important that you keep your knees straight as you do this. Once you have maintained this position for a second or two you should return to the starting position. Each time you repeat this movement cycle, you should try to bend backwards a little further so that in the end you have reached the maximum possible degree of extension.

Hara
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 6/1/2009 10:56 AM (GMT -7)   
Thank you for the wonderful posting BionicWoman.

PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 6/1/2009 3:58 PM (GMT -7)   
One of my PT's used some of the McKenzie method on my neck years ago, and some of the exercises worked very well. I still use them today. But they were for my neck and upper back area. I think the experience of the PT is appying various techniques is what is crucial. I have been given a sheet of exercises, or shown how to do them quickly, and ended up hurting myself at times. A good PT has to let you learn, listen and watch your response, and adapt from there. I just suspect little attention was paid to the cervical spine as the exercise was being done.

I hope you find a PT who listens to you, Hara.

Good luck!

PaLady

Hara
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 6/1/2009 4:45 PM (GMT -7)   

thank you PAlady. I'll see what they have in store for me on Tuesday. Ouch..... I've had back pain since I was 11-12 years old. Now I'm 40. It's catching up with me.

HARA


anice
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 536
   Posted 6/1/2009 9:40 PM (GMT -7)   
Hara, I hope you find the new PT to be more helpful to you. It sounds like you had a bad experience. I have heard of many experiences similar to yours. It just shouldn't be like that.

I have my 1st PT on Wednesday. And I am a little nervous. I know not to keep on doing things that hurt too bad. But what if I am told to do an exercise that I shouldn't be doing? I don't know what types that would be. I need to relax about all this. I need to turn my thought process around: I will have good results from going to PT. It will be helpful for me. OK, all better now. lol
Anice

PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 6/1/2009 9:46 PM (GMT -7)   
Anice,
You just have to go slowly and listen to your body and trust yourself. There's a difference between pain and soreness or discomfort. You'll experience the latter two from working muscles, but if you start to have real pain then you stop. And you discuss it with your PT. If they keep pushing you then I think that's when you try to find another. There are a lot of PT's out there. Sometimes I've actually called around on the phone and asked to speak to a PT and could almost tell from a conversation (I'd have some questions ready) if it was going to work out. Or at least had a potential to work out. If they're defensive and arrogant on the phone, that's probably how they'll be in person. Arrogance means they think they know everything, and your input isn't respected or validated. And that's just baloney. You are the expert on how your body feels. You know you want to get better, and you'll do what you need to do. Don't let someone else convince you that you're trying to get out of doing the work or are wimpy because something creates more pain than it should.

Ok, I'll stop now!

PaLady

anice
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 536
   Posted 6/1/2009 10:16 PM (GMT -7)   
PALady, Thanks again. I will remember everything you said. I am going into this with a positive attitude and will take it one step at a time. I know there will be parts of the PT that will cause pain. I am just concerned about causing "damage". But I will be able to talk with the PT, and I should get a pretty good idea about the personality and how they think.I will keep in mind about how my body feels.It'll be fine.
Anice

Hara
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 6/2/2009 1:19 AM (GMT -7)   
I have been trying backbends in different variations and I come up with a headache every time. I have a new PT on Tuesday. I'll have to see how she works out.
 
HARA

PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 6/2/2009 11:51 AM (GMT -7)   
Hara,
I would definitely stop doing them if I were you. But again, I'm not a doctor.

One thing I would suggest if you continue to have problems is to stop PT and call your doctor. Explain what is happening. If you're seeing another PT in the same office as your previous PT, there may be tension there because you may be seen as complaining, or not wanting to follow instructions. You may need a referral to a different PT agency altogether.

Let us know how today went.

Hugs,

PaLady

Hara
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 6/3/2009 2:31 AM (GMT -7)   
Today was a better day at PT. The new therapist showed me a modified way to do a shallower back bend, plus she showed me other thing today to. It was good and I didn't come out with a headache...YEA!!
 
HARA

edt
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 773
   Posted 6/3/2009 6:35 AM (GMT -7)   

Great news Hara, PT is meant to help not cause headaches!!  Hope you have a low pain day!

XXOO

Patti


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 6/3/2009 11:10 AM (GMT -7)   
That's great, Hara. Keep trusting your knowledge of your own body and assert yourself!

Hugs,

PaLady

Hara
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 6/3/2009 11:17 PM (GMT -7)   
I am very happy with what the PT did she was so nice. I was on one of the tables they had there and I immediatly started to stretch out my back a little by swinging my legs side to side. This was just after I did some bridge thing. She asked me what I was doing and I told her my back felt a little tight and I was trying to stretch it out a little to loosen it up. She said she has never had a patient do that before...lol   yeah
HARA
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