Scared of the FDA ruling

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Rockfish552
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 7/1/2009 2:20 PM (GMT -7)   
Am I the only one panicked by the FDA's proposal to eliminate prescription drugs such as Vicodin and Percocet? I'm sure this includes all prescription pain medications that contain Acetaminophen (Tylenol) -- all drugs marked APAP -- and almost all of them contain Acetaminophen. Will this mean that no pain pills can be given after surgeries and dental procedures? It's not likely we'll walk away from the hospital or dentist with a prescription for Morphine or Demerol, fer gosh sakes.

I just had a horribly painful back surgery and probably would have died of a blood pressure rise had I not had pain medications -- my blood pressure rises to a life-threatening level when I'm having lots of pain. On an ongoing basis, I suffer from chronic nerve pain due to spinal problems and related nerve damage, and take prescription pain pills every day. I have tried stronger drugs but they make me sick, so I take the hydrocodone types similar to Vicodin. I am truly panicked about these FDA proposals. What can be done to stop this nonsense?

Chartreux
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 9622
   Posted 7/1/2009 2:33 PM (GMT -7)   
Nope, your not alone, I'm currently on Vicodin HP and I'm just
hopeing the FDA will back down off this, basically it all comes down
to the amount of Tylenol and I wish the Maker's of Tylenol would come
forward and stop the FDA..So come on big drug companies help us out here...
that's what my $50 co-pay is supposed to pay for, right???
and this whole thing is NONSENSE...............
**********************************************
* Asthma, Allergies, Osteoarthritis, Spinal Stenosis, Degenative Disc, Fibromyalgia, Gerd,
Enlarged Pituitary Gland, Sjogren's and Ocular Migraines

********>^..^<********>^..^<********>^..^<********


akjak
New Member


Date Joined Jul 2009
Total Posts : 10
   Posted 7/1/2009 2:38 PM (GMT -7)   
It looks like the FDA is reacting not to the opiates, but to acetaminophen. All it really means is that those drugs are going to have the acetaminophen replaced with something else, or nothing.

I seriously doubt it means we won't have good painkillers.

PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 7/1/2009 3:17 PM (GMT -7)   
It probably means we'll be prescribed the oxycodone without an additive like tylenol, and then take what will probably be a lowered strength of OTC with it if needed.

Problem is there have been a lot of recent shortages of oxycodone.

If people want to screw up their livers there are lots of ways to do it. If someone takes more than the MDD of acetomenophen, then they're going to tax their liver.

We can't protect everybody from everything. Hopefully, the FDA won't completely ban the drug, but maybe make the acetomenophen issue more prominent, or lower the amount of it in these drugs. But who knows.

PaLady

Smoochie
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 71
   Posted 7/1/2009 7:12 PM (GMT -7)   
It makes you wonder if the Percocet and Vicodin is such a concern for the government why is it the first drug all doctors start handing out. We are patients and we are looking to the medical profession to supply us with something to help with our pain, they set the limits, they raise them and lower them at will, never once has any doctor I have ever had said to me to lower the amount of pills due to possible liver damage, now of course I have a brain so I know what all the possible side effects are, but lets face it the people who are taking excessive amounts are more than likely addicted to the substance and will continue to do so even if the FDA steps in to regulate it. The only ones who will suffer from this is us, It is just getting crazy, if they dont try and take all you money fro scripts they want to try and take them away.
Smoochie
 


Hello~Kitty
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 610
   Posted 7/1/2009 7:35 PM (GMT -7)   
They have just done doing trials on oxycodone with niacin, so maybe they're hoping to replace those meds with those (I dont know, just a thought). Niacin is in there to help stop abuse, but we all knwow the abusers will find a way around it, they always do.....grrrrrr. If only getting help for addiction wasnt so hard to find and expensive maybe we wouldn't have so many problems.

-hellokitty

Chronic Pain Moderator

Dx-Gallstones at age 14 that caused Fibromyalgia in 1998. Chronic Pancreatitis at age 15 from Pancreatic Divisum. Fell down cement basement stairs on my bottom in 2001. Got severe migraines after the epidural from my 2nd childbirth in 2002. Was rear-ended by a lady doing 55mph in 2004 then 2 months later rolled my car down a hill and did even more damage to my back. Depression caused by having chronic pain. Asthma from allergies.

meds- Suboxone for pain, Cymbalta for pain and depression, Lyrica for pain and migraines, Imitrex for migraines, Ibprofen for migraines, Ventolin Albuterol inhaler for asthma. Phenergan for nausea, Seroquel for sleep.

"I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much."         -Mother Teresa


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 7/1/2009 10:13 PM (GMT -7)   
Niacin? But the body can get too much niacin, too. Geesh.

PaLady

Gretchen1
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3459
   Posted 7/1/2009 10:31 PM (GMT -7)   
Wait.........really?  How much is too much niacin.  I LOVE MY NIACIN. 
Gretchen       co-moderator MS board       diagnosed with MS July 2006
 
I have no lesions on my soul and so I will live with no limits.


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 7/1/2009 10:35 PM (GMT -7)   
Gretchen,
I don't know. It's like other vitamins and minerals; we can get too much of a good thing. I know it was a problem for me many years ago when I was drinking these soy protein shakes everyday that had all the vitamins and stuff in them. I loved them, but later learned that the phytoestrogens in many of those drinks are sometimes more than we should have. And when I started to get I think some kind of rashes I think it was my GYN that said it might be too much niacin. But it's not bad for you; I just know you can get too much. So if they add that to the oxycodone they're going to have to educate us on that!!

It never ends!

PaLady

Gretchen1
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3459
   Posted 7/1/2009 10:43 PM (GMT -7)   
Sheesh!!!  Can't I count on you for anything??!!  (Just kidding).  Ok I just searched the internet on this niacin deal.  What I found was that the no-flush niacin can cause liver damage but the stuff that causes you to flush is pretty safe even at high doses.  Most people don't love that flush so they stick with the lower doses.  The flush is a vasodilation and it harmless.  The no-flush component is what causes the damage.  Strange!!! 
 
Niacin is a huge help for me.  I am feeling better about taking it.  I take 500 mgs twice a day.  I do flush pretty hard but other than that, it is great!!!!  It is suppose to be highly anti-inflammatory; I need that.
Gretchen       co-moderator MS board       diagnosed with MS July 2006
 
I have no lesions on my soul and so I will live with no limits.


Stella Marie
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 601
   Posted 7/1/2009 11:46 PM (GMT -7)   
Oxycodone is a schedule II narcotic  and  is marketed either alone as controlled release (OxyContin®) and immediate release formulations (OxyIR®, OxyFast®), or in combination with other nonnarcotic analgesics such as aspirin (Percodan®) or acetaminophen (Percocet®). Many medications have formulations with aspirin like Ultram,  Endodan or Roxiprin, or we with tylenol , like Vicodin, Ultraset, Endocet, Roxicet, and Tylox.  The problem arises when people do not realize their pain medication contains a dose of extra strength tylenol and then they go ahead and add a second dose of  tylenol or a cold medicine with tylenol, like NyQuil or Theraflu.  Patients taking these huge double or even triple doses of tylenol are at risk for liver damage and then, if they have a drink on top of that - they blow their livers out.  I am not sure people realize just how many medications are combination drugs - and main drug with a tylenol or aspirin kicker added to it.  My husband is highly allergic to aspirin and goes into respiratory arrest with even the smallest dose - so we have to read every medication to make sure there is no aspirin.  You would be shocked to see how many common medications are combination drugs.
 
I am sure they will be able to compound the main ingredient in most pain medication without the additional tylenol.

Stella Marie

Co-Forum Moderator for Chronic Pain

Rare neurodegenerative disease called “Multiple System Atrophy”. a very rare neurodegenrative disease ..i.e. brain rot.  Mobility issues,, O2 , intrathecal pump, neurostimulator, neuropathic pain,  spasticity, central apnea, oesteoarthritis, colitis...etc..etc.

 


bsjaguar
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 974
   Posted 7/2/2009 2:54 AM (GMT -7)   
My PM doctor had already prescribed my ocycodone without tylenol due to possible liver issues and does not prescribe anti-inflammatory meds which can be very hard on the stomach before these issues came up. I once told my PCP that I was taking 3 tylenol instead of two for pain relief and she scolded me. She said more will not give extra relief and the extra tylenol was hard on the liver. Tylenol is good occassionally but not for long term relief.

Hello~Kitty
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 610
   Posted 7/2/2009 4:17 AM (GMT -7)   
This oxycodone with niacin med is called Acurox®. They're thinking that this will help stop abuse of the medication, but like I said before, they always seem to find a way around it. I have 2 friends that took it before, one friend got it from a co-worker at her work that was a huge vitamin health freak and told her that it will make her feel better, so she took it and ended up in the hospital as her heart was going crazy and she passed out several times, and my other friend took it as she heard it helps clean out the system and she literally turned grey, I didnt know a person could turn to a shade of grey, but she did.... I know they have so many meds that they're doing trials on, but I think with the economy, most of those trials just dont have funds anymore. They had a oxycodone and morphine mixed with naloxone/naltrexone to help stop tolerence and abuse, hydrocodone extendid release, buprenorphine patches, and a few others I cant think of right now. But it seems like we wont be seeing these too soon, but I sure hope that they replace hydro/oxy meds some how. Even though I dont care what they do with hydro, I really hate that med, just the thought of it makes me sick to my stomach. But I sure hope they dont make plaine hydro as that would just be a dug abusers best friend and make life even harder for a CPP.

-hellokitty

Chronic Pain Moderator

Dx-Gallstones at age 14 that caused Fibromyalgia in 1998. Chronic Pancreatitis at age 15 from Pancreatic Divisum. Fell down cement basement stairs on my bottom in 2001. Got severe migraines after the epidural from my 2nd childbirth in 2002. Was rear-ended by a lady doing 55mph in 2004 then 2 months later rolled my car down a hill and did even more damage to my back. Depression caused by having chronic pain. Asthma from allergies.

meds- Suboxone for pain, Cymbalta for pain and depression, Lyrica for pain and migraines, Imitrex for migraines, Ibprofen for migraines, Ventolin Albuterol inhaler for asthma. Phenergan for nausea, Seroquel for sleep.

"I know God will not give me anything I can't handle. I just wish that He didn't trust me so much."         -Mother Teresa


BionicWoman
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 243
   Posted 7/2/2009 5:24 AM (GMT -7)   
I don't think it'll make any difference to the abusers if hydrocodone is marketed without the Tylenol component. because most of them are already dropping the Tylenol out of the various hybrid drugs anyway. Ironic, isn't it?

Gretchen1
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3459
   Posted 7/2/2009 7:49 AM (GMT -7)   
Sheeesh.  This is all so complicated.  I follow all these threads and I learn so much.
Gretchen       co-moderator MS board       diagnosed with MS July 2006
 
I have no lesions on my soul and so I will live with no limits.


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 7/2/2009 11:38 AM (GMT -7)   
Bionic,
I agree with you completely. I don't think changing the meds will make any difference - unless you take out the opiod! We keep going at the problem of drug abuse from the wrong direction, IMHO. But that's another long story. Bottom line is in the end we tend to be the ones punished.

I did post on another thread something I learned yesterday. The max daily limit of tylenol (acetamenophen) from all sources that's supposed to be taken in a day is 4000mg. But liver damage starts occurring between 5000-7000mg/day. That's not much leeway. Especially if someone takes the OTC products. So I do think some better education and labeling is in order. How many people know that tylenol is in percocet, for example? How many know what "APAP" stands for? Why not just put it on the label clearly? Just one thing that can be done.

You're right, Gretchen, this does make one's head spin!

PaLady

Gretchen1
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3459
   Posted 7/2/2009 12:45 PM (GMT -7)   
PAlady,
 
I spin all the time! LOL.  I have chronic vertigo.  But yes, this does make my head spin.
Gretchen       co-moderator MS board       diagnosed with MS July 2006
 
I have no lesions on my soul and so I will live with no limits.


mrsm123
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 1228
   Posted 7/2/2009 6:40 PM (GMT -7)   
I read today that they are talking about adding black box warnings to drugs such as vicoden and percocet in regard to the tylenol. It would help a lot if people even bothered to read the print outs that pharmacies provide with a prescription. Most of the information regarding side effects, tylenol additions etc, are listed right there on that sheet.
Many people don't realize that there is additional tylenol is cold medicines, theraflu, nyquil and the like. It is common sense to read the labels and that would reduce a great number of these accidental overdoses of tylenol.
The gram thing also needs to be clearly explained since I'm sure that many people are unaware that 2 extra strength tylenols = 1000 mg or 1 gram , so the maximum number of extra strength tylenol a day that a person should take is 8, they are now saying that it should be reduced to 6, so a maximum dose of 3000mg or 3 grams a day.
It would make more sense to remove the tylenol from the cold products and the sleep products that it is combined with ( OTC products that is) than it would to than to remove it from the pain medications and then make it so that two pills have to be prescribed in order for a patient to take a combination medication like percocet or vicoden.
Sandi
PLIF/TLIF Fusion w/Instrumentation L4-5 Spondololysthesis L4-5.Laminectomies L4-5, foraminal stenosis L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, herniations L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, central canal stenosis L3-4, L4-5 and L5-S1
POST OP CES 3/30-06
Neurogenic Bladder and Bowel, bilateral numbness legs and feet
Revision for failed Back surgery, pseudoarthrosis L4-5, hemilaminectomies L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, bmp added to revision fusion, replaced two bent screws that were reversing out of vertebrae - August 2, 2007
On going back pain and neuropathic pain, failed back surgery, consult for scs, decided not to do that at this point.
Adhesive Arachnoiditis also......just what I didn't need..9/08- adding bilateral ulnar neuropathy with severe compression to the mix. They want me to see a surgeon for ulnar nerve surgery, but I'm not biting.
I've seen enough surgeons over the last few years.
[url=http://dragcave.net/view/xdyP][img]http://dragcave.net/image/xdyP.gif[/img][/url]


LLPLUV
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 1158
   Posted 7/4/2009 7:10 AM (GMT -7)   
mrsm123 I agree with you that they should be looking at the OTC meds first before hitting on the pain meds we need.

Laurie
39 yr young female with,
Chronic Kidney Stones, PKD (Polycystic Kidney Disease), Chronic Kidney Failure, Severe Hypertension, Urological RSD
Also CHF (Congestive Heart Failure) and Sleep Apnea
Hopefully NO MORE........ I think I have it all

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