Broken Tail Bone

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pandacrazy
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Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 1326
   Posted 7/5/2009 10:20 AM (GMT -7)   
Has any one here ever broke their tailbone and had the cortizone shot for it? I was wondering how long it took to get better. I broke mine  sad at the end of January and then on June 23rd had a shot of cortizone to try to calm things down. Things were better until I tried riding my bike again. They talked about maybe having to do a second shot for it to be more effective. I was just living with the pain, but it would get really bad when I rode my bike so that's why I decided to give the shot a try. I'd appreciate any ones input on this. Barb
My laundry list of diseases include IBS-D, Ulcetive Colitis, GERD, Asthma, Alergies, CAD stent to LAD 1/4/05, Fibromyalgia, TMJ and a deteriorating disk in lower back and cysts on ovaries and uterus. Also chronic pain from a moped accident 11/9/07 which left me with back, hand, knee and foot problems.  

Meds, Nexium, gaviscon, Advair 500/50, Proventil inhaler, Plavix, Nitroquick, Benadryl, Natural progesterone cream, fish oil, calcium, lecithin, biotin, flax oil, magnesium, CoQ 10, vitamin C, vitamin D, multivitamin.

 
Proud Mother of a US Marine Seargent (son) & a daughter who is a certified dog trainer! Also furry children Abby(rat terrier) and Gizmo(chihuahua)
 
Proud grandma of Isabella Rose, Keegen and furry grandchildren Kayu, Sophie, Diesel & Lucy.


straydog
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 13470
   Posted 7/5/2009 10:28 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Barb,

No, I have not broken my tailbone before but from what I have heard from the ones that have, its very painful and does take a very long while to completely heal. I wish I could tell you something better.
Straydog/Susie
Moderator Chronic Pain
 
crohns disease dx 2002 & small bowel resection, still looking for remission whatever that is, chronic pain 22 yrs, added ulcerative colitis 6-05 to the mix, high blood pressure 28 yrs, aortic heart valve insuffiency, depression, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis lumbar spine, scoliosis lumbar spine, peripheral neuropathy hands & feet, COPD & on oxygen therapy, lupus & decreased circulation in both legs. Swveral other health issues just not enough roo to list it all. Too many surgeries to list and too many medications to list. Currently on 16 different daily medications. Intrathecal pain pump implanted June 05.


edt
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 773
   Posted 7/5/2009 10:35 AM (GMT -7)   

Hi Barb,

Many years ago long before CP, I fell rollerskating and chipped my tailbone.....It was a long long painful recuperation...I think it was longer then 8 mos before I was finally pain free!  about 3 weeks ago I fell and they say I bruised my tailbone along with yet another whiplash, so in addition to the usual pain....this has been an unwanted situation (falling is common for me due to Bil nerve damage of the legs).   I don't do cortisone shots, so I can't tell you what to expect.  I usually get injections called Neural Therapy which are done with Procaine and Homeopathics they are not deep shots but done along the meridian and around the injury site or area of pain.  These keep the pain controlled and can be repeated every 5 days if necessary.

I feel for you because no matter how you try to sit or move, it flares the pain.

Good luck....((((((((((((((((((((Barb))))))))))))

XXOO
Patti


pandacrazy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 1326
   Posted 7/5/2009 10:46 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for the input. Unfortunately I have heard the same thing that it takes a long time to heal. I waited all winter to be able to ride my bike so this is really upsetting to not be able too ride with out a lot of pain. My little sister(14 years younger) still feels bad about urging me to roller skate at her son's birthday party. I fell coming off the floor. There was a slant to skate down but I held onto the half wall and tried to step over it. I knew as soon as I hit that it was broken. I did not need another source of pain in my life that's for sure. I have one of the back cushions with the tail bone area cut out that I use a lot. I even use it at night because I am sleeping half sitting up on my wedge for the GERD so that put's added pressure on there. The cushion helps a lot but is way too big to put on my bike seat. Lol. tongue Maybe I'll have to become inventive and make something for my bike seat. yeah Barb
My laundry list of diseases include, Ulcetive Colitis, GERD, Asthma, Alergies, CAD stent to LAD 1/4/05, Fibromyalgia, TMJ and a deteriorating disk in lower back and cysts on ovaries. Also chronic pain from a moped accident 11/9/07 which left me with back, hand, knee and foot problems. 
Meds, Nexium,  pepcid, carafate, Advair 250/50, Pro air inhaler, Plavix, Nitroquick, Benadryl, Natural progesterone cream, fish oil, calcium, lecithin, biotin, flax oil, magnesium, CoQ 10, vitamin C, vitamin D.
Proud Mother of a US Marine Seargent (son) & a daughter who is a certified dog trainer! Also furry children Abby(rat terrier) and Gizmo(chihuahua)
Proud grandma of Isabella Rose, Keegen and furry grandchildren Kayu, Sophie, Abby & Lucy.


anice
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 536
   Posted 7/5/2009 10:51 AM (GMT -7)   
Barb, I haven't broken my tailbone before. But I have also heard it is very painful and the healing process is long,which you already know.Are you taking any pain meds? If not, it may help to relieve the pain some. I do hope you do feel better soon. I am sorry you are hurting and having such a hard time. I do wish you the best.
Anice

pandacrazy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 1326
   Posted 7/5/2009 11:46 AM (GMT -7)   
I have hydrocodone for my back pain when I travel mostly it is so bad I can't get out of bed if I don't take that and my cyclobenzadrine muscle relaxor. I did end up taking two of my pain pills at 9pm the night I had the shot in my tailbone because I couldn't stand the pain any more it was so bad. I am going to tell the doc when I see him for a followup that he really needs to give his patients a few pills for the first night. I would have been calling his answering service if I hadn't had the pain pills for my back. I'm hoping if he wants to do a second shot that they can coordinate it with my hand surgery on July 15th so I won't have to go down there 2x and they can just use the same operating room for both. Oh well we will see. My sister just called and wants to go swimming at my aunts cottage so I have to go grab some lunch before we go. At least swimming doesn't make any of my many painful problems hurt. I always go in the pool at the gym and go in the hot tub which really helps all my aches and pains. tongue Barb
My laundry list of diseases include, Ulcetive Colitis, GERD, Asthma, Alergies, CAD stent to LAD 1/4/05, Fibromyalgia, TMJ and a deteriorating disk in lower back and cysts on ovaries. Also chronic pain from a moped accident 11/9/07 which left me with back, hand, knee and foot problems. 
Meds, Nexium,  pepcid, carafate, Advair 250/50, Pro air inhaler, Plavix, Nitroquick, Benadryl, Natural progesterone cream, fish oil, calcium, lecithin, biotin, flax oil, magnesium, CoQ 10, vitamin C, vitamin D.
Proud Mother of a US Marine Seargent (son) & a daughter who is a certified dog trainer! Also furry children Abby(rat terrier) and Gizmo(chihuahua)
Proud grandma of Isabella Rose, Keegen and furry grandchildren Kayu, Sophie, Abby & Lucy.


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 7/5/2009 6:21 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi, Barb,
Nice to see you over here (well, not nice that you have pain in addition to the GERD, but I sure know that feeling!).

As far as the injections, often they're done in a series of 3. If the first one helped some, I'd ask about getting more, and maybe be put on a schedule to have all 3. The numerous epidurals and nerve bloks I've had have never helped - except for the ones I got in my hand for trigger fingers. And that took a series of 3 injections but it work - haven't needed one in years.

But like everyone said, the tailbone takes a long time. You may need to forego the bike ridiing and anything else that irritates it, especially for a few months. I'm not sure if PT could help. Trouble with the tailbone is it's not all one piece to begin with; it's a series of small bones.

I'd try more injections if the first one helped, but you probably don't want to do it at the same time as your hand surgery because you should put ice on the area after the injection. It might help if you could get it done in advance, if that's at all possible.

Anyway, welcome to the CP forum.

PaLady

pandacrazy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 1326
   Posted 7/5/2009 7:43 PM (GMT -7)   
It definitly helped (the injection) because I haven't had to even use my cushion at work any more. I even had some days with out any pain at all. I should not have rode my bike though, because that did not help it at all.  They never told me to put ice on it. Although it would be kind of hard to stick an icecube in your crack. tongue You'd have to have a wedge shaped one. Lol. Sorry I couldn't resist. I deal with my many problems with a good sense of humor. Barb
My laundry list of diseases include, Ulcetive Colitis, GERD, Asthma, Alergies, CAD stent to LAD 1/4/05, Fibromyalgia, TMJ and a deteriorating disk in lower back and cysts on ovaries. Also chronic pain from a moped accident 11/9/07 which left me with back, hand, knee and foot problems. 
Meds, Nexium,  pepcid, carafate, Advair 250/50, Pro air inhaler, Plavix, Nitroquick, Benadryl, Natural progesterone cream, fish oil, calcium, lecithin, biotin, flax oil, magnesium, CoQ 10, vitamin C, vitamin D.
Proud Mother of a US Marine Seargent (son) & a daughter who is a certified dog trainer! Also furry children Abby(rat terrier) and Gizmo(chihuahua)
Proud grandma of Isabella Rose, Keegen and furry grandchildren Kayu, Sophie, Abby & Lucy.


tysmyboo
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2004
Total Posts : 921
   Posted 7/5/2009 8:30 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Barb!

I broke mine during childbirth and have not been given anything specifically for this pain. All I can say tho is OWWWW!!!! Its so hard to stand up after sitting OR laying in bed on my back and trying to roll over or sit up.

MISERABLE! (and people look at me like Im 100 years old when I try to get up-its sad! :-)
Sara-Migraine/Headache Forum Moderator
Battling headpain for 17 years.
DX: occipital neuralgia-radiofrequency nerve ablation every 6mo
 
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PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 7/5/2009 10:47 PM (GMT -7)   
Barb,
We chronic pain people can get real creative. I'm sure we could find a way to get ice in that crack! tongue

Seriously, the ice is only for the first day if it's bruised. It's really not critical, especially if you take it easy. But if the first injection helped I'd definitely suggest going for more!

Maybe put the bicycle seat in the freezer before riding? smilewinkgrin (I am kidding!!)

Sara - maybe injections would help your pain, too. Worth a shot. rolleyes

Ok, enough of me for tonight!

PaLady

Hara
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 7/5/2009 11:09 PM (GMT -7)   
I've never had a broken tailbone but one of my ex-boyfriends did and it seemed like it took forever to heal.
 
On another note. My tailbone has been hurting along with my lower back and hips it is totally annoying.
 
HARA

LLPLUV
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 1158
   Posted 7/6/2009 8:33 AM (GMT -7)   
My sister broke her tailbone when she was 17. Wow what a long road and she still feels it at times and shes 41. I remember her saying she would of rather broke both her arms and legs over her tailbone. It hurt all the time, if she sat, stood up, layed down, walked and or any other activity.....

I hope your healing process goes smoothy but don't be shocked if its a long rough road.

Laurie
39 yr young female with,
Chronic Kidney Stones, PKD (Polycystic Kidney Disease), Chronic Kidney Failure, Severe Hypertension, Urological RSD
Also CHF (Congestive Heart Failure) and Sleep Apnea
Hopefully NO MORE........ I think I have it all


pandacrazy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 1326
   Posted 7/6/2009 11:02 AM (GMT -7)   
Oh my gosh did I laugh over your post PAlady. My husband thought it was funny too. Hmmmm the bike seat in the freezer. You might be onto something tongue .
 
Sarah, you should look into the shots. I now am pretty much pain free when sitting and laying down. I've even had some pain free days from my tailbone since the shot. Riding my bike still hurts though. I'm hoping another shot or 2 may help that too.
 
Thanks for the input every one. I appreciate any information on this. I have heard it takes a long time to heal but I just want to ride my bike and I want to be able to ride the 1200 miles out to see my new grandson, other grandson and granddaughter in September. Barb
 
 
My laundry list of diseases include, Ulcetive Colitis, GERD, Asthma, Alergies, CAD stent to LAD 1/4/05, Fibromyalgia, TMJ and a deteriorating disk in lower back and cysts on ovaries. Also chronic pain from a moped accident 11/9/07 which left me with back, hand, knee and foot problems. 
Meds, Nexium,  pepcid, carafate, Advair 250/50, Pro air inhaler, Plavix, Nitroquick, Benadryl, Natural progesterone cream, fish oil, calcium, lecithin, biotin, flax oil, magnesium, CoQ 10, vitamin C, vitamin D.
Proud Mother of a US Marine Seargent (son) & a daughter who is a certified dog trainer! Also furry children Abby(rat terrier) and Gizmo(chihuahua)
Proud grandma of Isabella Rose, Keegen and furry grandchildren Kayu, Sophie, Abby & Lucy.


opnwhl4
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 4961
   Posted 7/6/2009 2:14 PM (GMT -7)   
Barb -
Every time you mention the tailbone issue I cringe. I think I was 12 when I broke mine after a failed jump at a BMX race. It still hurts once in a while. Hopefully the injections will work.

Take care,
Bill

pandacrazy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 1326
   Posted 7/6/2009 2:37 PM (GMT -7)   
I know I cringe when I think about it myself  shocked . I can't believe I was so stupid to listen to my little sister. I'm supposed to be the wiser older sister. Lol. I'm hoping and praying a second shot will fix it at least long  enough so I can ride my bike for the summer and fall. Talk to you later. I am off to my best friends funeral now. It's going to be a hard one. My heart hurts as much as my tail bone I think. cry . Barb
My laundry list of diseases include, Ulcetive Colitis, GERD, Asthma, Alergies, CAD stent to LAD 1/4/05, Fibromyalgia, TMJ and a deteriorating disk in lower back and cysts on ovaries. Also chronic pain from a moped accident 11/9/07 which left me with back, hand, knee and foot problems. 
Meds, Nexium,  pepcid, carafate, Advair 250/50, Pro air inhaler, Plavix, Nitroquick, Benadryl, Natural progesterone cream, fish oil, calcium, lecithin, biotin, flax oil, magnesium, CoQ 10, vitamin C, vitamin D.
Proud Mother of a US Marine Seargent (son) & a daughter who is a certified dog trainer! Also furry children Abby(rat terrier) and Gizmo(chihuahua)
Proud grandma of Isabella Rose, Keegen and furry grandchildren Kayu, Sophie, Abby & Lucy.


mrsm123
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 1228
   Posted 7/6/2009 2:50 PM (GMT -7)   
I broke mine twice. Once by falling off some steps, landing on concrete. OUCH is all I can say! Then a few weeks later, I managed to go ice skating with my GS troop, and they convinced me to go on to the ice to help a few of them . I told them not to grab ahold of me, whatever they did. And sure enough, they did, coming around the ice rink and I managed to fall and break it in a second place. I couldn't sit, stand or lay for weeks for more than a few minutes for weeks. It took about 8 weeks before the intense pain subsided and then it was more of a sharp pain when I managed to sit wrong or stand too long, etc.
I sympathize with you, I know that pain and it is not good.
Someone said that their sister would have rather broken her arms and legs, and I agree with that. It was bad.
Sandi
PLIF/TLIF Fusion w/Instrumentation L4-5 Spondololysthesis L4-5.Laminectomies L4-5, foraminal stenosis L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, herniations L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, central canal stenosis L3-4, L4-5 and L5-S1
POST OP CES 3/30-06
Neurogenic Bladder and Bowel, bilateral numbness legs and feet
Revision for failed Back surgery, pseudoarthrosis L4-5, hemilaminectomies L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, bmp added to revision fusion, replaced two bent screws that were reversing out of vertebrae - August 2, 2007
On going back pain and neuropathic pain, failed back surgery, consult for scs, decided not to do that at this point.
Adhesive Arachnoiditis also......just what I didn't need..9/08- adding bilateral ulnar neuropathy with severe compression to the mix. They want me to see a surgeon for ulnar nerve surgery, but I'm not biting.
I've seen enough surgeons over the last few years.
[url=http://dragcave.net/view/xdyP][img]http://dragcave.net/image/xdyP.gif[/img][/url]


pandacrazy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 1326
   Posted 7/6/2009 8:04 PM (GMT -7)   
Since the shot it has been better. Alot better. Mine never bothered me when standing, but sitting, laying and bending over were the worse and riding my bike. All of that is better except for the bike riding. I am so glad I got that shot though because I have had actual pain free days which hasn't happened since January when I broke it. I think I'm pretty lucky after reading some of the other stories here. Do you still have problems with yours? Barb
My laundry list of diseases include, Ulcetive Colitis, GERD, Asthma, Alergies, CAD stent to LAD 1/4/05, Fibromyalgia, TMJ and a deteriorating disk in lower back and cysts on ovaries. Also chronic pain from a moped accident 11/9/07 which left me with back, hand, knee and foot problems. 
Meds, Nexium,  pepcid, carafate, Advair 250/50, Pro air inhaler, Plavix, Nitroquick, Benadryl, Natural progesterone cream, fish oil, calcium, lecithin, biotin, flax oil, magnesium, CoQ 10, vitamin C, vitamin D.
Proud Mother of a US Marine Seargent (son) & a daughter who is a certified dog trainer! Also furry children Abby(rat terrier) and Gizmo(chihuahua)
Proud grandma of Isabella Rose, Keegen and furry grandchildren Kayu, Sophie, Abby & Lucy.


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 7/6/2009 8:12 PM (GMT -7)   
Barb,
You're not planning to ride your bike 1200 miles are you?? smhair smhair smhair

Say it isn't so!

PaLady smilewinkgrin

pandacrazy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 1326
   Posted 7/6/2009 8:52 PM (GMT -7)   
No shocked ! That would really hurt. Lol. I have to ride 1200 miles in my little Saturn out to see my grandkids which means 24 hours on my butt in the car. When my hubby drives though I will put my seat back and turn on my side to give it a break. I am off to bed now. My friends funeral totaly drained me. Barb
My laundry list of diseases include, Ulcetive Colitis, GERD, Asthma, Alergies, CAD stent to LAD 1/4/05, Fibromyalgia, TMJ and a deteriorating disk in lower back and cysts on ovaries. Also chronic pain from a moped accident 11/9/07 which left me with back, hand, knee and foot problems. 
Meds, Nexium,  pepcid, carafate, Advair 250/50, Pro air inhaler, Plavix, Nitroquick, Benadryl, Natural progesterone cream, fish oil, calcium, lecithin, biotin, flax oil, magnesium, CoQ 10, vitamin C, vitamin D.
Proud Mother of a US Marine Seargent (son) & a daughter who is a certified dog trainer! Also furry children Abby(rat terrier) and Gizmo(chihuahua)
Proud grandma of Isabella Rose, Keegen and furry grandchildren Kayu, Sophie, Abby & Lucy.


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 7/6/2009 8:58 PM (GMT -7)   
(((((((((Barb))))))))))

So sorry about your friend.

PaLady

straydog
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 13470
   Posted 7/6/2009 9:22 PM (GMT -7)   
Barb, PaLady may be onto something with the cold seat ,lol. I am visualizing this as I type and I am trying not to fall out of my chair laughing. Maybe a design that has those little cold things that you refreeze over and over,lol. I guess we could call it the butt cooler,lol

Sure hope the injection works again.
Straydog/Susie
Moderator Chronic Pain
 
crohns disease dx 2002 & small bowel resection, still looking for remission whatever that is, chronic pain 22 yrs, added ulcerative colitis 6-05 to the mix, high blood pressure 28 yrs, aortic heart valve insuffiency, depression, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis lumbar spine, scoliosis lumbar spine, peripheral neuropathy hands & feet, COPD & on oxygen therapy, lupus & decreased circulation in both legs. Swveral other health issues just not enough roo to list it all. Too many surgeries to list and too many medications to list. Currently on 16 different daily medications. Intrathecal pain pump implanted June 05.


Hara
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 7/7/2009 12:11 AM (GMT -7)   
And here I thought I was seeing things I'm glad someone else said something about the 1200 miles and the bike riding thing. OMG.... I am really glad you were not riding your bike all the way there.... Don't scare us like that.
 
Hara

pandacrazy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 1326
   Posted 7/7/2009 6:45 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks PAlady. I appreciate it. My friend would have told me I looked awful today as my eyes were swollen half shut and blood shot. He always told you what he thought. He'd kick my butt if he saw me crying like this over him.
 
Susie and Harra, you made me laugh. I needed that. Will it be wedge shaped to fit in there right? Lol. tongue
 
When I go down to the doctor tomorrow for my preop with the hospitalist doctor I'm going to stop by the other doctors office and tell them what's going on with my tail bone and see if we can set up another shot. I am very pleased that it helped so much already but still want to be able to ride my bike. I waited all winter to be able to do that. I'll let you all know what i find out tomorrow. I'm off to walk the pups now. Barb
My laundry list of diseases include, Ulcetive Colitis, GERD, Asthma, Alergies, CAD stent to LAD 1/4/05, Fibromyalgia, TMJ and a deteriorating disk in lower back and cysts on ovaries. Also chronic pain from a moped accident 11/9/07 which left me with back, hand, knee and foot problems. 
Meds, Nexium,  pepcid, carafate, Advair 250/50, Pro air inhaler, Plavix, Nitroquick, Benadryl, Natural progesterone cream, fish oil, calcium, lecithin, biotin, flax oil, magnesium, CoQ 10, vitamin C, vitamin D.
Proud Mother of a US Marine Seargent (son) & a daughter who is a certified dog trainer! Also furry children Abby(rat terrier) and Gizmo(chihuahua)
Proud grandma of Isabella Rose, Keegen and furry grandchildren Kayu, Sophie, Abby & Lucy.


Hara
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 900
   Posted 7/7/2009 10:56 PM (GMT -7)   
Aww how cute. I like the name Isabella Rose and all the others...hehe.    Oh yeah I'm Vitamine D deficiant to and have Anemia haunting me again...lol
 
HARA

pandacrazy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 1326
   Posted 7/8/2009 8:31 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks, I love her name too. It fits her. Her little brother Keegans name has grown on us too. We love all our grandchildren even the furry ones. Make sure you take vitamin D. My regular doc put me on 2000 a day since it helps with so many things. She put my hubby on it too. I am still waiting for the pain doctors nurse to call me back about my tailbone and doing a second injection. I am really excited about the thought of getting rid of the pain and being able to ride my bike again. Barb

My laundry list of diseases include, Ulcetive Colitis, GERD, Asthma, Alergies, CAD stent to LAD 1/4/05, Fibromyalgia, TMJ and a deteriorating disk in lower back and cysts on ovaries. Also chronic pain from a moped accident 11/9/07 which left me with back, hand, knee and foot problems. 
Meds, Nexium,  pepcid, carafate, Advair 250/50, Pro air inhaler, Plavix, Nitroquick, Benadryl, Natural progesterone cream, fish oil, calcium, lecithin, biotin, flax oil, magnesium, CoQ 10, vitamin C, vitamin D.
Proud Mother of a US Marine Seargent (son) & a daughter who is a certified dog trainer! Also furry children Abby(rat terrier) and Gizmo(chihuahua)
Proud grandma of Isabella Rose, Keegen and furry grandchildren Kayu, Sophie, Abby & Lucy.

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