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sherrvonne
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 6
   Posted 8/5/2009 6:15 AM (GMT -7)   
     I know of someone who has to deal with someone taking subutex.  I read some previous threads on subutex where those taking it are quite satisfied with the med and they said it is helping them to go on with their lives.   This doesn't seem to be happenening in my friends case. We have been researching as much as possible but nothing matches the actions we are seeing with the husband.
  From what Iv'e noticed, the Subutex, prescribed for chronic pain, seems to be the ultimate happy pill.     And believe me it is extremely annoying for the people taking care of this person.   Although they say they feel 'normal, the all day humming, singing, etc belays normal. Then it is 24/7 non stop tv or sleeping. This is not normal to me or my friend. It is as if there is an extreme lack of interest in anything that goes on no hobbies, no plans, no nothing, no friends, since the pain meds began 3 yrs ago and the Subutex hasn't made a difference in this area.  It is like a one person 'inside the head' party with the person taking the Subutex and it is a 1/2 8mg dose.   
   Maybe the dose is too high? Its already at a half, I seen the whole dose the first time, not good, it then got lowered to a half dose.
If anyone can shed some light on this the caregivers would be soooo relieved.
       Thanks Yall, Sherrvonne

PAlady
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Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 8/5/2009 10:36 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi, Sherrvonne,
Welcome to the chronic pain forum of Healing Well. We're a great support group, but we're not doctors, and I think it would be next to impossible for us to give you any accurate thoughts on what might be happening with this person when it's second or third hand. There are so many complexities in each and every case.

The main thing I would suggest is to have the caregivers accompany him to his next doctor's appointment and report their observations to the doctor. I'm not sure any of us here feel like our pain medications are the ultimate "happy pill", so I wonder if there's something more going on with this individual. Only a doctor could assess that, but often doctors don't get all the information that caregivers have. Caregivers could also be writing down their observations. It sounds like something needs evaluating but only his doctor is going to know all the pieces.

One observation I can make from your post is that it doesn't seem to fit that on the one hand you're saying this is the ultimate 'happy pill" for this person, but they've loss interest in life. The latter sounds like possible symtoms of depression, which is common with chronic pain. But the happy pill sounds like something else entirely.

PaLady

sherrvonne
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 6
   Posted 8/5/2009 11:47 PM (GMT -7)   
  We did try this, reporting to the Dr, about observations on behavior, it was a horrible experience, The person taking the meds, which were morphine and vicodin, (and wacky behavior) became very angry and confrontative as soon as they left the Dr. Office. The wife ended up having to vacate her home with him for at leat a couple of weeks more than once.  It wasn't pretty.  Then he was taken off the vicodin and morphine and put on subutex, and Ambien. The Ambien was a freak show in itself.
 I do well with ambien, sleep, get up in the morning and feel well.  In the case with this other person, the Ambien became a one man all night staying up happy time, eating everything not glued down, cooking without the burner on but the gas on and no fire, just gas coming out,, cooking crazy stuff mixed together, and the all time event of (when their stove was unhooked for a few days) mixing a cake at 3:00am and realizing there is no working stove and taking the bundt pan of cake mix to the porch and cooking it in the BBQ Pit. (I hear it rose about half way)  Now this man had at least 2 ambien and was playing with fire on the front porch,at 2:00am while his family slept.    Since that incident the Ambien has been replaced by klonapin.
 And yes, if it is the ultimate happy pill, how come the wife is  still have to do all the housework cooking, laundry,etc....?
  But mostly my ques is, does this med taken in normal doses cause any of these problems for anyone else. I am beginning to wonder what idea of "Normal" this person has. because I know for myself that I dont hum, sing, of make up silly poems about the little dog all day, and or also when I'm half asleep.

Post Edited (sherrvonne) : 8/6/2009 12:52:33 AM (GMT-6)


PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 8/6/2009 12:03 AM (GMT -7)   
Sherrvonne,
I really don't think we can answer that question for you. People have very individual responses to medication. It sounds like there's a lot more going on with this situation.

But either way, he and his wife are going to have to figure this out. You sound like you're very close to the situation - are you related in some way?

Someone has to want to get help. The one thing I could suggest is for the wife to begin to seek some counseling, and perhaps she can sort out with a professional what's going on, and what her choices are. Also, sometimes it takes a long time to find the right mix of medications. Ambien does have a lot of strange effects for many people, but not all.

PaLady

sherrvonne
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 6
   Posted 8/7/2009 5:30 AM (GMT -7)   
I help out the wife at times, she probably does need the counseling. But I know where she is comong from just by the part I see. Iv'e also taken care of clients who needed hospice and they had stronger meds than this guy I am writing about and I never seen the "extreme elevated mood level' in them and they were nice and polite, and not insulting the wife every chance they got, and these were people that were dying. I think also the husband needs to talk to his pysch too.
Well, I'll talk to her about the counseling, it might be something she tries, thanks for your help.

PAlady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 8/7/2009 2:54 PM (GMT -7)   
If he would go, too, that would be great, but if not, at least she could get some help trying to figure out what's going on.

People have different reactions to medications, and also different personalities. I've also seen people who are dying who are nasty and bitter. Most of us don't tend to change our personalities a lot, we just get older in pretty much the same way we lived. But medications and other physical changes that come from illness can have many different effects on a person - including their behavior.

PaLady

Hello~Kitty
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2005
Total Posts : 610
   Posted 8/7/2009 3:29 PM (GMT -7)   
Hello Sherryonne,

I take Suboxone, which is Subutex but with naloxone in it, and it isnt a happy pill to me, it helps my pain enough so I can function and live life somewhat normally. Subutex/Suboxone is prescribed off label for depression and pain but is only FDA approved for narcotic dependence, does this person have a diagnosis of dependence or is he using it off label for pain? When it's used for pain it's usually prescribed in low doses, about 1-2 mg every 4-6 hours, and for dependence it can be anywhere from 0.5mg or less to as high as 32 mg daily(this is the usual but every person and doctor is diffrent in prescribing but this is what the makers of these pills recommend). I was taking 24mg daily and right now I'm taking 16mg daily (one 8mg pills every 12 hours) and I have absoutly no side effects, no unusual happiness, no depression, it just helps my pain and that's it, it does make me sleepy but all narcotics do this. And I know doctors use Subutex for people who cant handle the Suboxone, cause Suboxone can cause stomach pain and headaches and some people are just allergic to the naloxone ( eventhough the body doesnt absorbe it in a way to cause withdrawals when it's used right, naloxone is only effective if abused), maybe he just cant handle the main ingredient buprenorphine, are you sure he isnt using other pain meds on top? Cause that can cause some bad reactions.

I'm sorry, but I just dont know what to tell you, and if the doctor cant help, then it maybe time to find someone else. And if this person wont go to another doctor or figure out whats going on, then maybe it's time for your friend to reevaluate what she needs and doesnt need in her life.....

All I can tell you is that what his person has going on is NOT what is going on with me, and remember that Subutex/suboxone is 25 times stronger then morphine so he's taking equals about 100mg daily of morphine, buprenorphine is one of the strongest pain meds out there.

-carmen

PS, if you go the NAABT websight, they have a forum called "addiction survivors" for people just taking Suboxone and Subutex and they can help you more out there then here, Nancy is a great person there and she knows everything aobut these 2 meds inside out. We have wonderful people here too, but besides me, we just dont get many people on these meds.


Chronic Pain Moderator

-Stress is when you wake up screaming....and realize you haven't fallen asleep yet.

-What if the Hokey Pokey really IS what it's all about.

-Is it time for your medication or mine?

-Underneath it all....I'm pretty much naked.


sherrvonne
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 6
   Posted 8/7/2009 8:22 PM (GMT -7)   
Wow, Thanks, I know a few people taking pain meds, One woman in particular takes Methadone for pain, she has crippling arthritis, aside from her normal yakkiness, she loves to talk, I never see her pain meds give her "mood elevation". This man takes 1/2 of an 8mg tab 3 times daily. He also has klonapin. The ambien was extremely ineffective. (cooking without fire and only gas on in the burner)
What my friend is seeing is all day humming, singing, watching tv,humming while watching the tv or any other activity, and sillyness, goofy poems and rymes to the dog and his wife, on off sleeping all day long mingled with tv watching, humming while trying to go to sleep and when half asleep, no effort to think ahead to make lunch or food for themselves, no hobbies whatsoever, no effort to do anything like find something new to do, (he was a journeyman machinist, one of the top in the area) Now he cant even trace down the cord on the pc monitor to find out that its not plugged in, or how to download music to an Mp3, wev'e shown him multiple times....the info just gets lost somewhere. He makes no effort to call his friends or make friends he totally isolates himself.
I 'm wondering if maybe the med is just too strong for him and he needs a lower dose. It was prescibed when the Morphine and Vicodin became ineffective. The Dr. won't discuss any of the treatment to the wife without him present and then if she does this, he gets extremely upset and angry. We were just wondering what others have experienced with this med and thank you very much for replying, you have been very helpful!

anice
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 536
   Posted 8/7/2009 8:47 PM (GMT -7)   
Sherrvonne, It sounds like a very complicated delima. I am sorry, I am not fimiliare with this medicine, at all. I have heard of it a few times. But, like I've said I know nothing about it.

I do agree with the concerns you have. They seem perfectly logical to me. The behavior he is having is very concerning. If the doctor won't discuss this with the wife (Hippa violation), and the husband gets angry with her for mentioning it, it is a big problem, indeed. I just don't know what the answer to this would be. I would think that for the wife, counseling would be a good place to start for her. It could help her to deal with all these emotions she is having because of him and his behavior. It sure couldn't hurt. It is obvious that you care for them, I can see that much. The wife need support. I am glad she atleast has you to lean on. I am sure she is grateful for that.

I am sorry I have been of no help whatsoever. But I did want to say that I do understand. Something is indeed wrong here. I hope it all works out.
Anice

sherrvonne
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 6
   Posted 8/8/2009 1:06 PM (GMT -7)   
Actually this site and everyone's replies have been very helpful. Sometimes when people are so close to a situation it helps to get others views and opinions on it. So thanks every one for your replies!
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