oxy vs. opana.....norco vs dilaudid

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catahoula
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 184
   Posted 1/1/2010 8:21 AM (GMT -7)   
currently working with my pm ( well, I'm suggesting combos  and hoping he will consider then as I think he has gotten to a point of throwing me to the curb) to find a properly working cocktail that will finally work. I know I stated that the best result I had was with the Actiq but I no longer can afford it so it is out of the question, I was on the Norco only for 8 months with very little relief until I was finally able to convince him to add a lonag acting as well as breakthrough med so now I take 1mgs of opana with 4-norco for b/t..
 
When I have to go to ER when things are unbearable I usually get a shot of dilaudid. Now i have been reading your profiles and see that many are on dilaudid as well as oxy. Can I ask. Is this for breakthrough? What dose? Does it make you "high"? That is the last thing I want so I guess that wouldn't be an option  as I finally got rid of the constant years of cloudiness, I would just hate to go back to it. I'm just searching for anything to talk to him to when I go back on the 11th  so any comments would be appreciated.
thanksssss all
happy new year
cat
sick and tired of being sick and tired


Screaming Eagle
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Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 5005
   Posted 1/1/2010 9:05 AM (GMT -7)   
Good Morning Cat! I would think you could answer your own question, regarding the Dilaudid and it's effect on you. I'm not trying to be a smarty pantz here, but you stated that when you go to the ER, they give it to you, to relieve your unbearable pain. So, my question would be, what effect did you get from it? I'm a guessing you have had this several times in the past, or at least it sounds that way in your post. Many of us have the so called Fog that you are referring to, and sometimes it will get to the point to where you will not notice it as much, than when you first start on it. I had it bad when I started on Oxycontin, but have since then noticed some of it has gotten better.
As far as your PM, I think we need to know a little more History about your problem. How long have you been seeing this PM? If you can, at least for now, try to keep your post tied to one listing, so that we can see other notes that you have listed, for a quick reference. I'm sure you have stated more of your history elsewhere, but it sure helps if we can see it here, for questions such as these. In general it is best to let your PM suggest what your treatment will be, as they specialize in Pain Management. It has been said here many times that it is not a good idea to suggest pain meds to your PM, as it could be construed as a sign of abuse or prior abuse. I myself need more information from you before I could give an educated guess as to what direction for you to follow. To be on the safe side, I would be straight up with your PM, and tell him that your at his mercy as to what type of treatment he is willing to try on you. Also remember it may take several weeks, if not several months to find the right combination, for a possible successful treatment for you. PM's are hard to come by these days, so be careful jumping ship too early on him. I'm going to leave the rest of the suggestions to the Big Dogs here, as I'm still fairly new here as well. Members such as Stray Dog and PaLady, White Beard, Chutz, I'm sure will be along after a while. Pay close attention to them! They have many, many years of experience dealing with questions, such as this. First, and foremost, follow your PM's instructions to the T's! Communication, is the Key to success many times with these PM's, so make sure you yell him everything you can. OK, I have had enough!....Have a wonderful day my friend!


Michael

Howlyncat
Elite Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 24909
   Posted 1/1/2010 9:48 AM (GMT -7)   
hi there..i for one never got a high from Oxycontin...it did help with pain but i have since stopped using it.....i agree with Michael..Chutz n Straydog would hv more educated info for you....i also believe that many docs if told what pain meds you prefer do or will label you,,,,i wish you all the best..lyn
                          
                                Co Mod for Crohns, Anxiety/Panic, Alzheimers
   Crohns..Pyoderma gangrenosum,..Anxiety / panic..Fibromyalgia,,Neuropathy...Deaf...Seizures
 
                        I DONT COMPLAIN...OTHERS ARE WORSE OFF THAN I AM                                   
                                                     .....LYN.......
                                Donate to..www..healingwell.com.
                                                    
                             No BETTER GIFT than FRIENDS N FAMILY                                               
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catahoula
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 184
   Posted 1/1/2010 10:25 AM (GMT -7)   
ok, i thought one had to start a new thread if you started a new question. sorry, brand new to this as I just joined this site three days ago.I just saw all the different threads and comments and thought that was the way you were suppose to  do it.
I have been with my pain doc for I guess its been over four years now. He was the end of the line after seeing 13 others from primary to ent's, neuro, headache,psych,and finally pain management.When I started with him I was still on percocet which my primary started me on in '01. I had been through all the antibiotics, allergy meds, ear tubes,seizure meds , psych meds for pain etc and he again went to the seizure meds again at higher dosage( kepra, topomax,etc) w/ no effect finally landing on actiq which worked. We had tried all of the nerve blocks in the forehead as well as the ganglion block just above the collarbone in the right side of the neck which was scary as it left me unable to move my right arm, breath deeply or cough for 3 days until it wore off. Unfortunately it did nothing. I also agreed to have cryoprobe to the supraorbitalnerve done. The first time I went in for this the machine was broken so they had put me under and the next thing I knew I woke up completely draped listening to them all talking about how sorry they were but it was broken so I would have to come back again some other time. The next time I came for my scheduled cryoprobe , we got there at 6 am as we were told and were told we weren't on the schedule but I insisted that I had been called the day before and told to be there, was told to wait and they would squeeze me in. I was taken in at 7 and at noon was taken back for the procedure. This time the procedure seemed to offer some relief for a few months. I was scheduled to have it done again 5 months later. I got there for my procedure and was told that my doctor would not be there today but his collogue would be performing the procedure.
 Do you know how those little hairs stand up on the back of your neck and how you should listen to them? Well those hairs were standing straight up but I ignored them, I assumed that if my doctor, who I did trust, trusted this man to do this simple procedure, then I should too. After waiting agin for another 5 hours to be taken back, because it was the day before New Years ( I still don't understand that)I was wheeled into the operating room where the anesthesiologist went to administer the versit to put me under "blew" the vein and shot it all into my arm instead of my vein. I heard her say "darn" and then I heard the doctor ask "does she need to be under" I said YES SHE DOES from under the drapes.  I swear to you all, I am not making any of this up. I now know in hindsite I should have bolted from that table, I should have run from there but I think like many of us being raise in the 50's I was taught that the doctor is the hero and always right so I just needed to lay there and behave.  Anyway, she found another veing, got me under and the procedure went on. I woke up in recovery went home and the next day the cryo di indeed seem to help  once again but I woke up with two very black eyes and looked like my husband had beaten me. When I went to the follow up appointment with my pm a week later he asked me what happened, I told him and he said he would not have gone through with it. I told him I did not know he wasn't going to be there and his only response was "oh , I thought you knew".  Cryo worked again for awhile but I was still on actiq for b/t and it was working.Then came the terrible news last year when all the insurance companies would no longer pain for Actiq unless one had an end stage cancer dx so we went to msir, oxy ir, er, lyrica and another  that starts with a f or p but for the life of me i can't recall( has caffene in it) .It was a year ago this past July that I finally asked to go back to the Actiq even though I had to pay out of pocket. Then came the awful  experience with the opcipitol nerve stim I spoke about on the other thread. That has brought me here. Currently I am on opana, norco for b/t. lyrica, topomax, prozac, ambien,zocor,ketorac,. When I go to his office , I don't just say I want "this or that, but bring in printouts from website or documentations and ask "so what do you think?, more of a " this is what i found, what do you think?"
I was a caseworker for developmentally disabled and mentally ill adults for 10 years. I had a caseload of 23 schitzophrenics, sociopath, etc.. When I took my clients to doctors and psychiatrits, over the course of years we would establish  a bond where they would treat me as a collogue( boy, i can never spell that) and ask my opinion, what did i think, what did i see, how did i view the client, were the meds working, did they need an adjustment etc..I find it AMAZING how it has changed  now that i am the patient and how I have suddenly beome stupid or suspect. I still have the same mind, I still do the same research but now I am advocating for myself, probably my most important client because I want nothing more than to be able to get back to them. You have no idea how I worry for my clients as I sit here rambling around this house.  anyway.
all this "drug addict" wants to know is, what are you using, hows it working for you and maybe I can suggest it to my PM, get a dialogue going with him about it and hopefully some day get back to "my guys" and see how they are doing
 
cat
sick and tired of being sick and tired


Blessedx8
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 3193
   Posted 1/1/2010 12:01 PM (GMT -7)   
Cat...

Going back to your original post here re: dilaudid. They come in varying dosages - 2mg, 4mg, 8mg. It's mostly used for breakthrough pain. I use 8mg, 3x a day (plus 1 1200 mcg Actiq) for breakthrough on top of long acting morphine. I have a very high tolerance to oral meds, though... hence, the high dosages. You asked about the oral Dilaudid compared to IV Dilaudid. Again, each person's body is different and so are the effects of medication... But, just for me - no, the oral is not the same as the IV dilaudid. The IV stuff is going straight into your system, not having to go through your whole gastro-system, etc... so you feel the "effects" instantly, etc. Re: feeling "loopy" on it...I don't get those type of side effects from any meds, including IV...so I can't really answer that part of it. As I've said before -- unfortunately, pain management is all about trial and error...so you really have to try something to see what the effects are on you.

Feel free to ask any other questions... of course, these are just my experiences....

One more thing... I completely understand about going to your PM, and asking about using different things that are out there. I wouldn't suggest anyone go in and say "Hey, I want "xyz"".... :) but I feel there's nothing wrong w/ going to your doctor (who is working FOR you)... and just asking about different things that are out there, etc. Just my two cents, though :)

Take good care... --Tina
Pain Issues: Cervical/Thoracic back pain; migraines; carpal tunnel syndrome; widespread joint/muscle pain, nerve pain in hands/arms/feet; I also have Dysautonomia/POTS; CFS/Fibromyalgia; Severe Hypertension; Hypothyroidism; Hypoadrenalism; Mixed (Obstructive/Central) Sleep Apnea - on Auto BiPap; Depression/Anxiety; etc etc

Meds: MS Contin; Dilaudid; Actiq; Soma ; Neurontin; Atenolol; Midodrine; Phenergan/Zofran/Reglan; Effexor; Synthroid; Prednisone; and on the list goes...

Future Plans: Intrathecal Pain Pump; already completed trial; awaiting my decision for implantation


straydog
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 13451
   Posted 1/1/2010 12:47 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi Cat,

Well, I wish I could really be of more help to you but since I have a pump I will leave it to the others to say how they are doing with their combos. I do have oral Dilaudid 8mg for BT pain even with a pump, my dr believes we should always have something for BT pain. I can break them in half if I want to. When I take the 4mg I do ok, I don't usually get sleepy or foggy. But, now the 8mg does give me this affect. The pain has to be pretty severe before I take the full 8mg. I also have Dilaudid in my pump. I remember being on Norco and it worked very well for me but was short lived because of becoming in effective.

The last time I was in the hospital they gave me 4mg IV and boy it just knocked me for a loop. I have a real wacky system when it comes to medications, never know how I will react. I could not take oral Morphine but given IV, I am in lala land. I guess according to my family I get real goofy on it. Usually when I get put in the hospital with a crohns flare they give me IV morphine for pain and I must put on quite a show for the family, lol.

I am sure some of the others will get onboard and share their experiences . Good luck.                                                                                                                                                  


 

crohns disease dx 2002 & small bowel resection, still looking for remission whatever that is, chronic pain 22 yrs, added ulcerative colitis 6-05 to the mix, high blood pressure 28 yrs, aortic heart valve insuffiency, depression, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis lumbar spine, scoliosis lumbar spine, peripheral neuropathy hands & feet, COPD & on oxygen therapy, lupus & psoriasis and psoratic arthritis. Several other health issues just not enough room to list it all. Too many surgeries to list and too many medications to list. Currently on 17 different daily medications. Intrathecal pain pump implanted June 05.


Amaristo
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 29
   Posted 1/1/2010 1:48 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi

Hopefully you'll figure out a combination that works for you. I took dilaudid for BT pain after my surgery. In oral dosage it was effective for the pain, but didn't make me high. I will say I was drowsy a bit, but nothing I couldn't fight through. It didn't help that I was stuck laying on my stomach for a month. IV meds hit me much harder and do make me high or loopy. While I was in the hospital recovering from the surgery I had a morphine pump to my IV. It was effective but made me loopy and sleepy.

I take norco now but it takes 30 -40mg of it to even touch the pain, so I know in a short while I'll be looking for a new medication as the norco becomes less and less effective.

But keep in mind that medications work on an individual basis. What works for me, might not work for you. What makes me tired, might have no effect on you. So these are just experiences we can share with you.


Good luck with everything
Diabetes: 25 units of Lantus insulin, 1500mg of metformin
Neuropathy: 300mg of Lyrica, 100mg of Tramadol 3x a day, Norco 30mg 3x a day, or as needed for the pain.
Supraventricular Tachycardia (SVT) and Arrhythmia: 50mg of Metoprolol 2x a day.
Irritable Bowel Syndrome (IBS): Lomotil and Promethazine as needed.
High Blood pressure: Metoprolol and 100mg of Cozaar
High Cholesterol: 40mg of Pravachol


uniquelyme
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 1037
   Posted 1/1/2010 5:06 PM (GMT -7)   
 
 
Welcome to the forum and the family....CAT?  Anywho, here is my question...are you taking the Opana ER?  or the Opana?  I was going to take it, the Opana ER but my insurance wouldn't pay for that and my Methadone...Another question....why are you having to go to the ER?  If you see a PM Doc you should have pain meds....just asking....
 
Me.

I have been a spectator for so long..Now it's time to participate.......
 
Post Lamenectomy Syndrome, Spinal Stenosis, DDD....
1999 Hemi Lamenectomy/2005 Spinal Fusion(L4-S1)
Methadone 120 mg. a day/  30 mg. Oxycodone as needed(up to 4 x a day)
High Blood Pressure: Lisinopril HCTZ 10 mg. daily
Type 2 Diabetes: (March 16, 2009)
Metformin HCL ER 1000 mg. at night..Glipizide 10mg. 2X in the morning
Lantus 35 units at bedtime with Solostar Pen                                                                   

 


Stella Marie
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 601
   Posted 1/1/2010 5:18 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi Cat,

If I remember correctly from one of your first postings, your pain is the result of post shingles nerve damage.  This is usually called postherpetic neuralgia.   Usually the pain from shingles lessens as time goes on and usually disappears after a year or two.  Some do have it much longer.  The one thing  I have learned is that it is extremely important to identify that the pain treatment is for neuralgia and not physical damage like failed back syndrome.  Many of these types of nerve pain do not respond to all types of pain medications.  Many narcotics are not effective for neuralgia, so be careful about asking others what works for them.  I am also suffering for a neurodegenerative problem, and have learned there are only a few medications that are work for us.  For me, Actiq (high dose Fentanyl) worked, but it  was far too strong and too expensive to be a viable option.  Ironically, Fentanyl patches, even up to 150 mcgs did not relieve my pain.  Low dose morphine was the key for me in a pump and Dilaudid for B/T.  Fentanyl and Oxy, I have learned are not top choices for neuralgias.  Some people do well with Lyrica, Cymbalta, and some of the anti-seizure meds.  It took me a long time of trial and error to learn and believe my PM when he said 3/4th of the narcotics out there don’t relieve neuralgia.  What has your neurologist said about how long he feels you are going to be dealing with this?  Like other shingles pain, it this expected to go away after time or is this permanent?

 

Is this the PM that was forcing you into having an SCS implanted – and then threatened you with detox and rehab.  Have you had another conversation with him since the threat of detox?  I am not sure going into his office discussing potential drug combinations is a good idea, since he already seems to have his own agenda.  Or – have you found a new PM and are starting fresh?


Stella Marie

Moderator for Chronic Pain and Epilepsy

Rare neurodegenerative /movement disorder called “Multiple System Atrophy”.  Mobility issues,, neuropathic pain,  spasticity, myoclonus, central apnea, collagenous colitis, joint and body pain, swallowing and respitory  involvement,  Implants: intrathecal pump & neurostimulator.  Extra features: O2 & wheelchair.

 

 


catahoula
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 184
   Posted 1/1/2010 6:09 PM (GMT -7)   
Stella- This is the PM who was very upset when I would not have the second nerve stim implanted. I need to address something that has been bothering me since I started with this pain over 9 years ago. Post therpathic, or supraoprital neuralgia is only the latest dx. For the first year I was told it was a cold, then for 2 years I was told it was allergies, then the ear disorder, then shingles even though I never had any symptoms, no rash, no fever, no outward sign. I went into his office discussing I had the cloudy head, the dizziness, the intense ear pain, all the other symptoms I stated in previous posts. He started pressing around my forehead asking me if it hurt. I said no. His response was  too bad, because if it did, then we could inject it.I believe the dx was made because , at the time, the majority of pain was confined to the right side of face and head. It was until I had the failed cryroprobe to the opcipitol that I began to have the pain to the back of my head. Doc states this is just part of the evolution of the pain though I often wonder if something may have occured during that probe.At this point, whats done is done. With all the needles and surgeries and blocks its hard to tell whats caused what.
It just occured to me that for the first time in a long time I have really  reviewed the evolution of this pain due to this site and the questions of you folks and I thank you for that. Just thinking of all the mis steps that occured over the course of all those cryroprobes and then the pressure and the follow-up care after my refusal to have the second nerve stim implanted is making me reconsider the care I have received at a teaching hospital. This is something I will have to think long and hard about also considering the fact that I have heard that good PM doctors are hard to find especially when one has an experimental stim implanted.
Back to your question, and I apologize for the ramble, this doc told me that he has never heard of anyone having headaches past the age of 60. I asked if he was serious and he said it was rare. I still don't know what to make of it. I guess I need to do my research but if thats true I should be "cured" in another 5 years! I did it bring it up at one of our recent appointments that I was holding him to his statement that I'd be cured when I was 60 and he laughed so I guess we both have something to look forward to him. I don't want to sound like he is a bad doctor and if thats how its coming across please let me clear that up. He and I have been working together for  over 4 or is it 5 years now and he could have kicked me to the curb long ago. I know how cranky I can be when I am in pain and yet he sits there and smiles and listens and thinks. Maybe I just miracles when there are none. I just want to explore every option. Hopefully he'll go along for the ride.
cat
sick and tired of being sick and tired


straydog
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 13451
   Posted 1/1/2010 6:18 PM (GMT -7)   
Well Cat, I just nearly fell off my chair when I read the part of no headaches after 60!!! So, if thats the case I wonder then what both of my parents were experiencing once they turned 60. Sorry, I am not trying to br sarcastic, but I am not buying that one.

Jeesh, I have read this post a few times and now I am wondering what happened with you as well? Was there things done that maybe should not have been done, like you say we may never know. You can't give up that we do know. You know, reading what Stella Marie posted is very true about the nerve pain, very few pain meds will touch that pain.
 

crohns disease dx 2002 & small bowel resection, still looking for remission whatever that is, chronic pain 22 yrs, added ulcerative colitis 6-05 to the mix, high blood pressure 28 yrs, aortic heart valve insuffiency, depression, osteoarthritis, osteoporosis lumbar spine, scoliosis lumbar spine, peripheral neuropathy hands & feet, COPD & on oxygen therapy, lupus & psoriasis and psoratic arthritis. Several other health issues just not enough room to list it all. Too many surgeries to list and too many medications to list. Currently on 17 different daily medications. Intrathecal pain pump implanted June 05.


Howlyncat
Elite Member


Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 24909
   Posted 1/7/2010 6:43 PM (GMT -7)   
I have to agree my mother had crippling geadaches way past her 60th yr.....i dont have long to wait lol.....so i would be real imporessed if that was truth
                          
                                Co Mod for Crohns, Anxiety/Panic, Alzheimers
   Crohns..Pyoderma gangrenosum,..Anxiety / panic..Fibromyalgia,,Neuropathy...Deaf...Seizures
 
                        I DONT COMPLAIN...OTHERS ARE WORSE OFF THAN I AM                                   
                                                     2010       
                                Donate to www.healingwell.com.
                        HW FRIENDS N FAMILY TRULY DO UNDERSTAND                                                 
                                      Lyn..........AKA...........Howlyncat             
                  
                                                                                           


catahoula
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2009
Total Posts : 184
   Posted 1/18/2010 11:45 AM (GMT -7)   
Have been sitting here feeling..I don't know what... i saw my PM on Monday . As usual, I saw a student doctor first and discussed  my pain etc The first thing he did was press all around my head trying to find the "trigger points", boy of boy did he find them.  The next thing he did was tell me he could set me up for a  nerve block on all those trigger points he had just found. When I told him that the doc had pretty much decided we weren't going to do anymore invasive procedures anymore because we had already done them all he seemed rather disappointed. My doc came in. We discussed where my pain was at. I asked about the possibility of trying an increase of Opana from 10 to 20 mgs. He said I could take both doses of 10 in the morning but since it was a 12 hr. med watch for a dip at night and then reccommended I might try Johns Hopkins, I should be seen again in 3 months and just come in for refills w/ RN.
I'm still a bit baffled.
cat
sick and tired of being sick and tired

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