Is honesty always the best policy?

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J_Rene
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 279
   Posted 2/10/2010 1:25 PM (GMT -7)   
I dont know if you remember my previous post so I'll do a recap.
 
I've suffered from CP since 2002. I do see a chronic pain dr, which Im on percocet 7.5mg up to 6 a day. I have hip problems along with back pain and fibro. Well Im now alittle over 9 weeks pregnant. I didnt share the news with my PM dr when I was 6 weeks. But I talked openly to my OB/Gyn about my pain meds. Well she sent my PM dr a letter. So he found out that way and not from me. My OB said it doesnt cause birth defects, just a risk of addiction. Which I planned getting off in my 3rd tri.
 
I wasnt trying to hide the fact I was pregnant. I have a history of miscarry before my 1st tri is over. I was waiting to see if I made it that far before I told a lot of people. Well his nurse called and left me a message, so I knew they knew. So I called and she was really a witch to me... she said he wants to start getting you off the meds now. These meds arent good for the baby...like Im an idiot and dont know its not an ideal situation. I said ok.. lets make an appt and we'll talk about it.
 
I dont want to be treated like any other case, cause it isnt. I should be cared in the way my health needs it. My situation should be looked at as special and not "Oh you gotta get off these meds"  Of course I dont want to be on these meds when I delivery but my quality of life should be taken in consideration.
 
Im so upset and scared of how much pain Im going to be in....I want a healthy baby more than anything.... I knew I was trying to get pregnat so I got off taking oxycotin and percocet down to just percocet only.... that was all me, Dr didnt tell me to do any of that!
 
I need some advice on how to talk to my dr
 

Major car accident 07/02

On going back and leg problems

DX with fibromyalgia 10/05

Goal in life:

To go bra less as much as I can!


Screaming Eagle
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Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 5005
   Posted 2/10/2010 1:56 PM (GMT -7)   
 Hello Rene! Thank you for sharing this with us here. I may not be the best one to answer this type of question, but I will give it a shot anyway. Humm...Well...it is always my practice to be completely honest with my Dr. concerning my health, and when there is more than one Dr involved, I make sure they both get the same information about me, and I also cross share the information from my treatmeants to them. I think it is best to be completely honest with who ever is treating you.
 
Maybe the best thing to do, was let both your Dr's know that you wished to have a baby, and let them decide which was the best route for you to go as far as your medical condition goes.
 
"(My OB said it doesnt cause birth defects, just a risk of addiction)" This statement bothers me here, and makes it look like that addiction is not a very high priority to you....and addiction to whom? Your unborn child?
 
I'm really not trying to step on anyones toes here, including your's Rene, but I really wish you would look at this again.
 
I'm sorry...but Im going to stop short here...and let someone else answer this one....but it bothers me.
 
I do truly hope that all works out for you, and that in the end a solution can be found that will be agreeable to all involved.
 
    Michael
 


DDD (Degenerative Disk Disease) S1-L4-L5

Post Edited (Screaming Eagle) : 2/10/2010 2:13:28 PM (GMT-7)


MMMNAVY
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Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6927
   Posted 2/10/2010 2:28 PM (GMT -7)   
From what I understand this is already a done deal (so approaching your doc's and let them know that you want to get proego is no longer an option, I think maybe it is a reference for future use if you want to do this again).
You are pregnant and your concern is that you might miscarry? Is that due to the pain, drugs, genetics, or some other situation? What do you think is causing these miscarriages? From what I understand miscarriage in the first trimester, generally means there is a genetic or situation defect (could be anything from bad water to a viris you might pick up)? IDK ...
The doctor's concern is that the drugs might damage your baby?
Do you know what the pregnancy class is of the drugs you are on?
I do agree that you probably should not be cavilier about addiction in front of your docs, most especially when a baby is involved. (for it could put their liscense at risk, if you show a disreguard for the child's welfare <be aware that in some areas this could be putting your own needs above the childs>)
I think it might be a question of putting to them while you are concerned about addiction, damage to the baby, could you miscarry from just being in too much pain? (BTW pain (stress,etc.) can cause miscarriage)
I think find out about what causes your previous miscarriages might be worthwhile to look into, especially if you feel that your pain level coresponded to it.
Unfortunately, with some drugs in the first trimester can actually be more damaging then in the last trimester.
Do you have a high risk OB/GYN? (I am assuming yes with your isssues of miscarriage and pain.)
As I have alluded to do you think there is a correlation between your pain level and miscarriage history?


Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease/Thyroid Disorders:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…

Post Edited (MMMNAVY) : 2/10/2010 2:31:11 PM (GMT-7)


flower123
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Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 856
   Posted 2/10/2010 2:53 PM (GMT -7)   
I'd have to say that with a baby involved that yes, honesty is definitely the best policy. Addiction can be extremely serious for babies I think. Maybe someone else can chime in about this but I think that it can be awful for them.

ScreamingEagle, I'm also not trying to step on anyone's toes. I agree with you. That statement also bothered me.

I just see so many children with so many issues and if I were pregnant I would want to know much more about the effects of the meds./addiction on a newborn baby. It can be very scary I think.

I also have read that it's not good for a pregnant woman to be in a lot of pain and under a lot of stress. So, it goes both ways I guess. I would definitely not omit information anymore from any of your doctors now especially for the sake of your unborn baby.


Please, mods., if I'm giving bad advice or sounding too harsh, let me know.

merrygirl
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Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 702
   Posted 2/10/2010 3:05 PM (GMT -7)   
I also think that your choices are not wise. It sounds like you got pregnant on purpose while knowing you would be put in this situation. BAbies addicted to meds can spend weeks in ICU on pain meds suffering while trying to detox. I know you were planning to get off, but it sounds like you were hiding information from your doctors.

If you were honest from the start, you might not be in this situation at all.

I know what is done is done, so I think the advice from here on out would be to be honest with your doctors. I having a sneaking suspicion you will be submitted to drug testing if you havent already. If you dont follow the rules, you may get in trouble with more than just your doctors (like DSS)

I know this is not what you want to hear but you need to hear it.

I was briefly considering having another baby but decided the risks to the baby are too great. SO I got an IUD that will stay in place 5 years.

I guess I probably seem like a jerk , but youre likely going to be a mom and it is time to wake up.
Best of luck to you and baby.
Chronic Lyme Disease,Fibromyalgia, CFS, PCOS, sleep apnea, hypothyroidism, type 2 diabetes, bulging discs to name a few


J_Rene
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 279
   Posted 2/10/2010 3:07 PM (GMT -7)   
I did talk with my PM doctor and told him I was seeing a fertility dr. So he knew I was trying to get pregnant. When he looked at all my meds I was taking in the system, meds from my RE showed as well. I told him what it was for and why I was taking it. He never really talked with me about "when" it happens what the plan would be. Thats my fault for not being more direct. But I feel he kinda dropped ball on the chance to speak to me also. But I talked openly with my RE about me being in pain meds and the risk of it. I thought at the time, it was more her field and she knew of the risk and what to do until I had a chance to talk to him.
 
Im my OB defence, she wasnt making light that "Oh, it doesnt cause birth defects, just addiction" but was trying to put me at ease and make me aware too. That a plan would have to be in order before the baby was born, how to detox safely.
 
 My previous miscarriages are not caused my meds. I do have a birth defect on my uterus called a septum. Basically it causes blood flow to my uterus to be more difficult as the pregnancy progresses. So the baby doesnt get the blood supply it needs to survive.
 
I've never made it out if the 1st tri... So I was waiting to tell  not just my dr but family too. If you've never experienced that..its hard to tell someone you're not pregnant anymore when they ask about the baby you were growing. It sucks.
 
 
Im concerned as MMMNavy said, will my pain being unmanaged cause me to miscarry b/c of stress and can that be bad for the baby? Im just wanting to weigh the pro's and con's of both. I want to make the best choice for my unborn child I can. I want to be given options in my treatment.
 
 
 
 

Major car accident 07/02

On going back and leg problems

DX with fibromyalgia 10/05

Goal in life:

To go bra less as much as I can!


Screaming Eagle
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 5005
   Posted 2/10/2010 3:10 PM (GMT -7)   
I too, stand ready to be admonished, if I over stepped my bounds here. The subject is a sensitive one, and since I know so little about this, I thought I would let someone else answer with more knowledge. It is the my hope we can stay in a positive light on this, although, maybe I did not start out that way. My apologies to you Rene, but the subject struck my in the wrong way. While I have not experienced labor, I am a very protective father.

Michael

DDD (Degenerative Disk Disease) S1-L4-L5


getting by
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Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 40573
   Posted 2/10/2010 3:26 PM (GMT -7)   
Rene,

I think it is safe to say that the cat is out of the bag now. Though I think it would have been a lot easier if you would have told the doctor from the start. Hopefully he will get you off meds slowly enough so that you don't have any severe withdrawal symptoms. And quickly enough that it doesn't do any damage to the baby. Though I hope what your OB said is true and that there isn't a high risk of birth defects if any at all.

I just want to say that I hope that you can get this sorted out with your doctor and I hope that you have an uncomplicated pregnancy and deliver a healthy baby.

Try to take it one day at a time now. Worrying isn't going to do you any good, it will just put your stress levels up. Breathe, relax and take things as they come. One at a time. Maybe it would be good for you to learn to do some meditation and some deep breathing practices. Keep your anxiety level down. Try not to worry.

Hugs, Karen
  Moderator-Depression and fibromyalgia
 
fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, depression,allergies


flower123
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 856
   Posted 2/10/2010 4:01 PM (GMT -7)   
Yes, it is so important to put this past you because you don't want to be stressed out!

Hugs,

Flower

bluejet2
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 487
   Posted 2/10/2010 4:29 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi J Rene:

When I went for my pre-surgical testing for my first back surgery, the doctors told me that they could not do my surgery because much to my surprise, I was pregnant. I immediately got off of the anti-depressant (Prozac), and the sleeping pill (Ambien) that I was on, but my OB/GYN allowed me to take pain medication (Percocette).

For the first trimester while the baby was developing, he asked that I take it as little as possible, but after that, he said that it would not cause any birth defects. There were several times where the pain got so bad that my oral med was not enough, and my OB put me in the hospital and gave me morphine injections for a couple of days until my pain got under control.

My son had to be born by C-section 5 weeks early because the pain was affecting my ability to walk, but the pediatricians were well aware that I had been on pain meds for most of my pregnancy. My son was born addicted to the pain medications, and had an intestinal blockage that they said was from them as well. They were going to air-lift him to a hospital an hour away that had an NICU, but I asked the doctor if there was any chance that it was severe constipation from the pain meds, and if I could try breastfeeing him (breastfed babies traditionally have very loose stools) and see if it would help it to pass, and it worked!

He had a rough start, but within a week, all of his problems were resolved, and he is a very healthy 12 year old today.

I know it is not ideal to be on pain meds or any meds while pregnant, but my OB realized that it was also not good for the baby for me to be in a state of extreme stress due to pain.

I wish you well, and just make sure that all doctors, including whatever pediatricians you are going to use are well aware of your situation ahead of time.

Lorie

MMMNAVY
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Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6927
   Posted 2/10/2010 5:07 PM (GMT -7)   
Rene,
Actually spending the money to see a fertility doctor should have been a pretty direct sign to your pain management doc that you are serious about getting prego. So please do not feel guilty over that. Anyone that works in the medical profession would (or at least should) think that is clear sign you intend to get prego within that year and that hopefully you would see a + on that very next ovolation cycle.
If I am understanding you correctly that issue basically boils down to what is more dangerous for the child... pain or drugs?
Take Care,
Navy


Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease/Thyroid Disorders:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…

Post Edited (MMMNAVY) : 2/10/2010 5:10:25 PM (GMT-7)


PAlady
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Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 6795
   Posted 2/10/2010 6:06 PM (GMT -7)   
Rene,
I don't think I can add much to what others have said except to give you my thoughts on the title to this post. You asked is honesty always the best policy - and IMHO in a situation like this, YES. Also, with our PM docs (regardless of the pregnancy) not being honest and working with them regarding all med. changes can result in being discharged as a patient and having one heck of a time finding a new PM.

I do think you need to tell your PM everything about all your meds, including the decision to stop the oxycontin and decrease the percocet. Yes, he should have known you were trying to get pregnant, but also you need to be more active in this whole plan for the pregnancy for both you and the baby, and that means getting a plan on paper that all your docs know about. So I think you need to tell you PM doc everything, maybe apologize for not telling him about decreasing your meds on your own, and agree not to do that again. Then he and your OB need to work together with you to create a plan for managing your pain and the pregnancy and birth.

I can understand not wanting to tell family and friends about the pregnancy until later, but your doctors are a different matter.

I do wish you all the best with this! Working with a pain psychologist who could teach you some relaxation techniques and other non-pharmaceutical PM strategies could also be a help now.

PaLady

Hello~Kitty
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Date Joined Jun 2005
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   Posted 2/10/2010 6:18 PM (GMT -7)   
I was under the impression that withdrawals in the first trimester can cause a miscarriage?? Maybe I'm wrong there, but I've just heard that over and over again. When I got pregnant several years ago, I was taking the 75mcg fentanyl patch, and I told my midwife, and she told me that it would be absoutly okay to stay on it during my pregnancy, but of course before I got a chance to tell my PM doctor, I already had a miscarriage so I dont know what he would of said about it. And my doctor right now that prescribes my Suboxone ALWAYS ask at every appointment what I'm using for birth control, so some doctors just are not comfortable prescribing pain meds during pregnancy, but alot of OB doctors will continue prescribing for you til you give birth (this happened to my counsin recently) then the PM doctor takes over afterwards. I can see why alot of PM doctors would be very uncomfortable prescribing during pregnancy, cause if something happens then the parents can sue them. But as always, you should always talk to your pm doctor, and ask your ob what the risks are if you stop, and make sure the two doctors are talking it over before any choices are made. And withdrawals in babies can take anywhere from 2-6 weeks in the nicu for htem to get weaned off, and it would kill me to lose those first few weeks of life cuase those are the most special, and to go home empty handed just wouldnt be fair to the baby and me. but good luck either way.

Carmen~*~*~Chronic Pain Moderator

DX-Chronic Pain due to two freak car accidents, Pancreatic Divisum,Fibromyalgia, Asthma, Depression w/anxiety, Migraines

Meds- Suboxone 16mg for pain, Cymbalta 60mg, Lyrica 50mg, Imitrex 100mg PRN,Ibprofen 800mg PRN, Ventolin Inhaler PRN, Visteril PRN

 


J_Rene
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2005
Total Posts : 279
   Posted 2/10/2010 6:55 PM (GMT -7)   
I posted on here for advice and sometimes what you get may not be what you want to hear. I didnt ask to be judge for my choice to have a child. I know there are risk being pregnant while on narcotics. Im not that dense. I've been married going on 11 yrs and dealt with CP for almost 8 of them. I wanted to give my husband a child. A healthy child. I did talk to my RE before we started any treatments. She said it wasnt ideal, but would need to start the detox process before baby was born.

I choose not to tell my PM dr for personal reasons. Unless you suffered loss after loss(not due to my meds) you can't really judge my choice. I did cut down to 2 or 3 a day in the first 7weeks. And I still continue to cut down as far as my pain will let me.

Ummm.. yes.. merrygirl usually when you are going to a fertility Dr its b/c you're planning on getting pregnant. Thats the ideal!

All I was trying to stress is there has to be away to help both mother and child.


 

Major car accident 07/02

On going back and leg problems

DX with fibromyalgia 10/05

Goal in life:

To go bra less as much as I can!

Post Edited (J_Rene) : 2/10/2010 6:58:42 PM (GMT-7)


MMMNAVY
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Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6927
   Posted 2/10/2010 8:22 PM (GMT -7)   
Of course there is a way to help mother and child, and that was what I was trying to get too. But I really just want to make sure I was in sync with what you were saying.

You are certainly right that no one can judge, especially when they themselves have not had the same life experiences as you.
Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease/Thyroid Disorders:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…


mrsm123
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Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 1228
   Posted 2/10/2010 8:24 PM (GMT -7)   
H J Rene,
I'm sorry that you seem to feel that no one should "judge you" for your decision not to tell your PM that you are pregnant unless they have experienced multiple pregnancy losses. I can tell you from my own experiences with 8 losses of babies that what you did is NOT what I would have or did do when I found out that I was pregnant and on heavy duty pain medications. My FIRST calls were to my OB and to my PM doctors. I also got in immediately with a high risk perinatalogist. Having experienced multiple losses made me that much more protective of that unborn infant that I was carrying. I was not going to do anything to jeapordize that baby's chances of being born, and that included taking chances of something happening to that much wanted baby by  not sharing information with all of my caregivers.
I could live with the pain, if it meant that my son or daughter was going to arrive into this world, happy, healthy and alive.
It sounds like you hid the pregnancy from your PM doctor because you either knew or had strong suspicions that he/she would most likely stop the pain medications and you are afraid that you are going today suffer in pain during the pregnancy.
Kudos to you for stopping the oxycontin, but percocet has the same drug in it, as I'm sure that you are aware, so stopping the oxycontin just stopped the long acting mechanism of the medication but not the itself.
I understand not wanting to tell others that you are pregnant when you have suffered multiple losses previously, but I do not understand hiding the fact that you are pregnant from your PM doctor, for any reason.
There is no justifiable reason for doing /hiding that information from your caregivers and I think that
you know that as well, no matter what you have told yourself.
The responsible thing to do is see your PM and discuss the options with him. There are other medications that you can take that are safer to take during pregnancy and if the need for more pain medications arise, they can deal with that issue as it arises. My understanding is that many fibro patients feel much better during pregnancy and the resulting pain is much improved.
 Now, before you discount my post,  I have suffered the losses of multiple pregnancies and dealt with the issues of pain medication needs during pregnancy but I dealt with them with all of my caregivers recommendations, and followed all of their advice and directions. I didn't hide anything from them.
Sandi
PLIF/TLIF Fusion w/Instrumentation L4-5 Spondololysthesis L4-5.Laminectomies L4-5, foraminal stenosis L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, herniations L3-4, L4-5, L5-S1, central canal stenosis L3-4, L4-5 and L5-S1
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I've seen enough surgeons over the last few years.
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Screaming Eagle
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Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 5005
   Posted 2/10/2010 8:39 PM (GMT -7)   
Rene, I don't think anyone here judged you for wanting a baby. What you posted on your last reply is quite different than your first post on it. I see no other reason for your ob/gyn to call your Pm unless they thought there was a valid reason to. I think your Header says it all...in that you asked the question "Is Honesty always the best Policy?" That statement set the tone for me in my head. The point is...that we all care about you and the child.

But like one member said..it is done, so lets drive on. You are right in that we are here for support, but I think our support extends to the unborn also. We do not say these things to be ugly...but we share them out of concern for both the mother and the child. I'm no expert by a long shot, and have a lot to learn, and that is why I stopped short of saying anything else. I really do believe that if you reread the replies, you will see that we do care...and maybe we don't put it in the best of words either...but we have to get past that....and support you in the best way possible.
I don't expect everyone here to agree with me, and we all look at things differently.

I'm sorry if I set the tone right off the bat...and maybe I should have not said anything at all...but I did...and I believed that I had good reason to. I will support anyone here including the unborn. I hope you can see why we were concerned after we read the original post. I hope all goes well for you, and the Dr's find a solution that is best for mother and child here. My apologies to you! In sincerity!

Michael

DDD (Degenerative Disk Disease) S1-L4-L5


MMMNAVY
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Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6927
   Posted 2/10/2010 8:46 PM (GMT -7)   
Ladies and Gentlemen, I am not your moderator, so please consider this friendly reminder of the rules from a fellow member:
4. No posts that attack, insult, "flame", defame, or abuse members or non-members.   Respect other members of the community and don’t belittle, make fun off, or insult another member or non-member.  Decisions about health and well-being are highly personal, individual choices.  "Flaming" and insults, however, will not be tolerated. Agree to disagree. This applies to both the forums and chat.
 
Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease/Thyroid Disorders:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…


getting by
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Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 40573
   Posted 2/10/2010 8:46 PM (GMT -7)   
Rene,

What is done is done, now it is time to get things right with your doctor. I am sure that he/she will work out a plan for you to either safely take the medication, or safely wean off of it. Take this one day at a time, and know that we are not judging you. I am not judging you. I just want you to know that you have done the best thing that you can for the baby and yourself.

By the way, I forgot how far long you are, three months? Are you going to find out if it is a girl or boy? Or do you want to be surprised? I think that it is wonderful that you are having a baby and know that you will do the right things for him or her.

Best wishes to you.

Hugs, Karen
  Moderator-Depression and fibromyalgia
 
fibromyalgia, Chronic fatigue, depression,allergies


skeye
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Date Joined Mar 2008
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   Posted 2/10/2010 9:56 PM (GMT -7)   
Rene,

I don't want to get into anything too deep here, but I want to wish you the best of luck with your pregnancy. I imagine that you are quite scared because of both your past history and your current situation with the pain meds. Maybe you can arrange a face-to-face meeting with you & both your PM and OBGYN and together come up with a plan. And when you talk to you PM, just tell him the truth. I do believe that honesty is always the best policy, so tell him that you were afraid to tell anyone that you were pregnant until you reached 9wks because of your past history. I can't even imagine how traumatizing miscarriages can be, but I can understand why you decided to hold off telling your doctor. Now you just need to open the lines of communication doctor-to-patient and assess the situation. What is done is done, but you still have a long way to go & so there is a lot of time left to still implement a new plan if necessary. Good luck! I'm sure this is all very stressful for you. Maybe bring your husband with you to your appointments as a support system will help as well.

I hope everything is okay with you and the baby. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

hugs,
Skye

Splashdancer
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Date Joined Aug 2009
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   Posted 2/10/2010 11:02 PM (GMT -7)   
J_Rene: First, feelings of being judged is the reason I don't tell too many people about my (and my drs.) decision that I stay on pain medication (and an anti-depressent) during my last two pregnancies. I posted my story in another member's thread a couple of weeks ago - scroll through and you will find it. I don't really think anyone here is 'judging' you, just voicing concerns. It's especially difficult for those who have never experienced having to make the very difficult decision to take pain medication while pregnant. I am only speaking for myself here, but I had 2 successful pregnancies while on meds, resulting in VERY healthy babies (both had apgar scores of 9/10), born with NO addiction, and are now healthing, happy, smart, and normal 11 and 16 y/o boys! PM or email me if you'd like to talk further - I would be happy to share any info/experience that I have. Just work closely with your doctors and tell them everything from here on out. I wish you the best. And again - please contact me if you'd like.

Chutz
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Date Joined Jan 2005
Total Posts : 9090
   Posted 2/10/2010 11:18 PM (GMT -7)   
Navy,

Thank you for stepping in! I think this topic has been thoroughly discussed. There won't ever be a consensus or agreement on the topic so I think we should let it go. More posting of the same things isn't going to solve anything. Those who wish to talk more in depth kindly do it through emails. I think it would be a better solution.

Thanks!
Chutz
"Knowledge is knowing that a tomato is a fruit, but Wisdom is knowing not to put it in a fruit salad."

(\_/)
(o.o)
(> <) Co-Moderator Fibromyalgia & Chronic Pain Forums
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