Pain Management visit

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greatgrandmatoo
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 8/10/2012 5:11 PM (GMT -6)   
  idea Hi everyone in the Chronic Pain forum.  I haven't been on since forever.  I am sorry i don't stay in touch too nuch. I had been doing okay. Had my hip replacement surgery, and everything seemed like it was just fine. I was taking my meds and doing what I was suppose to do and visiting every two months my PM specialist who was terrific.  However in the last two months something must have happened because my world caved in all around me. 
I did my urine test and it didn't show anything bad, just didn't show my medicine levels however they do that. So legally they had to knock me back two pills a day.  It was hard, but okay because occasionally I had problems with my stomach because of stomach disease. I can't say I didn't feel badly because I did.  I was on Oxycodone 5 mg.Imm Release by the way and took 2 pills two times a day and one at night. Total daily 25 mg
 She explained the testing to me AFTER my second testing two weeks later.  To make this short, no more doctor for me. I was too clean I assume.  She was very nice, but her nurse was nasty nasty nasty to me. Talked down to me and ran through the whole ordeal like I was a serious issue to her and their office since they are under DEA guidelines.. Before I could explain anything, at all, they left and Nurse Kim came into the room and said you obviously sell your pills or you just don't take them.  Now mind you, I was in awe at everything that was going down with me.  I felt like I was a drug abuser even though I have never used illicite street drugs, nor have I ever sold any kind of a pill or anything of that nature.  I don't drink, smoke nor do I like to take medicine.
I took my pills as always did, but I also had trouble with throwing up, dry heaves, and pain in my stomach. These issues had been ongoing on for many years before I had to go on pain medication.
 
I don't know one thing about how to find another PM as the nurse told me to go to the internet. That hurt my feelings. I have been crying alot as I had one of the best PMs doctor there was in VA.  I have to have my pain meds as I have four types of pain that battle in my body.  I also am able to withstand some pain.  My pain days are many and may last 24 hours daily but ocassionally I get a half way decent day or two and I won't take them pills.  Now I have no doctor.  Do I actually have to go onto the internet and start calling?  How long will I have to wait?  I am assuming at least one month.  Are there areas in my consult that I should be aware of like I know that I am going to be asked about my PM doctor releasing me.  Okay, but I am telling the truth and I wish they actually took polygraphs.  :(  They would at least know we are telling the truth.  I am not a person who would give a drug like oxyto anybody let alone sell them.   I need them for me. Has anybody else had to handle this situation and what did you do to get on the right path again.  I certainly will take all of my meds all of the time whether I am in chronic screaming pain or not.  thanks in advance.  I just need a little bit of info.  And White Beard, I spoke with you when I went to Illinois a couple years ago.  Glad to see you are still in here. 
 
hugs to all, grannytoo
 

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 23862
   Posted 8/10/2012 5:20 PM (GMT -6)   
hello granny, trying to follow your story ( a terrible situation to read about),

so you are saying, that through a urine test, they didn't find a high enough level of the meds that you were legally prescribed to? assuming we are talking about script-level pain meds? and because not enough drugs showed up, they assumed you were selling, giving away, whatever - your legally prescribed meds?

if that is the case, i am totally astounded. i could see them treating you that way if you had high levels of the prescribed drugs, or additional drugs that showed up on test, legal or illegal ones.

please clarify this point for me, and then i would like to add some thoughts to it. just wanted to make sure i understood the heart of your post.

hang in there,

david
Age: 60, 56 at PC dx, PSA 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/8 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, 4+3
open RP: 11/8, Catheter in 63 days
Path Rpt: 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% tumor, 1 pos margin
Incont & ED: None
Surgery Failed, recurrence within 9 months
Salvage Radiation 10/9-11/9, SRT failed within 9 months, PSA 4/12 = 37.x
Spent total of 1 ½ years on 21 catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10,
7 other PC-related surgeries
Member of Prostate Cancer & Chronic Pain HW Communities since 10/2008
“I live in the weak and the wounded” – Session Nine (Movie)

Snowbunny21
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 3557
   Posted 8/10/2012 6:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi there...I'm sorry to hear about your situation...

Unfortunately David (above), they do the urine tests to not only check for illegal substances, but yes, to see if we are taking the meds as prescribed as there are many people who do sell their meds.

Obviously this is not what the OP did...but just stating in general.

Grannytoo....I also had a bit of trouble trying to follow...If I could ask a few questions..

Had you taken your medicine the day before/day of the test? Had you thrown up that morning or the night before when you had taken your meds?

And did you explain all of this to the nurse when you did the urine test? They usually ask you when was the last time you took your meds and how much.

And it does make a little sense that if you are not needing the max amount each day of your prescription as you said you have some days that you don't have as much pain and don't even take any meds....then they would cut you back by two pills a day.

I would think that the way you were doing it before you would have pills leftover each month and when this happens....they will try to only prescribe you the amount that you need each month instead of building up a cache of pills that you don't need.

I'm also a bit confused on why you say you don't have a PM now? I thought they are still treating you but just gave you a bit less of your prescription...

Is that not the case? Or did they dismiss you completely from the practice to never come back?

And I'm not sure whether you are living in VA or IL right now as you mentioned both...

If you are still able to see this PM...I would just wait until your next appt. and speak to them about what happened. It seems that if you told the nurse that you hadn't taken your pills in the last 24 hours...or you had gotten sick immediately after taking them...then they would realize that the urine test would come up "clean".

Did you bring in your pill bottles so they could count them? My office requires this each visit.

If not, you could drive back there to show them the amount of pills that you have leftover to show that you certainly aren't selling them but you just don't take the max amount each day.

This is what I would do...but hopefully you will come back on to fill in some of the gaps here...Again..I'm sorry this happened and hope you can get it resolved soon!

Post Edited (Snowbunny21) : 8/10/2012 5:25:50 PM (GMT-6)


greatgrandmatoo
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 8/10/2012 8:58 PM (GMT -6)   
Okay.  I am sorry but I was away from my laptop. Let me clarify for both of you if I can. Please excuse my rambling. There is just something not right going on here and this all went down so fast that it actually put me in a daze and when I walked out of the office i couldn't believe what had just happened.  I take my meds (oxy) daily, and I did take my meds the day before and the day of but the test but even then the test showed weak results for those two days.  I cannot understand how in the world that could happen. (I am from VA now but yes I used to live in Illinois to answer that question).  yes, I told the nurse what I took and was honest. I most definitely understand the cutback,  and that was okay, but I take my meds as prescribed every day, however, "sometimes" I have stomach issues (some flares are a few days and I have had flares up to two weeks with dehydration)  and try to take my meds anyway because my pain tolerance is awful. so badly that I am lucky to get out of bed to get to the bathroom. It's not like I have a stockpile of meds because I would have told her I didn't need many anymore.  
I have never in my life had to go through this and never have I given a pill away or sold one. This is awful!
 To answer another question, they are going to give me referrals of other PM doctors in my area And they are sending me a slip to sign that I am no longer with that office. 
I do no illegal drugs, and I detest them so much that I advocated in Illinois against drug issues that were there.  I do not do anything but take my prescription meds and my vitamins that my body needs and this is under my Rheumi doctor.  No illicit drugs showed up and my tests showed no overuse of my oxy. Three years with my PM doctor and she even remembers meds I turned down because I said it was unnecessary.  I don't like and cannot take meds such as Morphine, Percocets, etc.  stuff like that.  I can't take acetamenphrines either. Too much for my body. I also get helicobacterpylori (sp) probably misspelled that one which is a stomch issue that is awful.
Please if there is anything more you need to know, just ask. 
I don't know if I am going to be able to handle the types of pain I go through.  My "good days" are painful but I tolerate those days and am thankful for the light ones. I really do try to be healthy and stay that way, but i don't know what is going to happen to me now.
 
thank  you snowbunny, and purgatory for responding to my long , long complaint....hugs again

greatgrandmatoo
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 8/10/2012 9:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Also, my daughter is going to stop by with me on Monday to get copies of records. I want to know why this all happened. And this new Adm nurse that is in the clinic is not a very nice lady at all. She is almost heartless and has no compassion for people in pain. about a month ago she refused to let me get in for a 15 minutes injection into my lumbar area. i am herniated and have spurs all in there. she told me no and that I would have to wait a month till my next appt. when my PM doctor had told me to let them know if I needed the injections and would be ready to get them. That's just an added note. Sorry.
Disabilities include Degenerative Joint Disease, Osteoporosis, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Supraventricular Tachycardia SVT (cardiac), Artherosclerosis, Peripheal Neuropathy, Restless Leg Syndrome, C5,6, and 7 herniation/spinal compression, herniated L5, 6 and 7. Diverticulitis, Gastrointestinal Disease (flares up and then goes away)

Snowbunny21
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 3557
   Posted 8/10/2012 9:13 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks for sharing more...

So can you not bring them your bottle of meds that would show the appropriate amount of medication?

And the day you took the test you had taken all your meds that morning as well as from the previous 24-48 hours? You said that the test came back "weak"...Would this match up with what you took because I know you said that there are some days you don't take any.

It seems like a simple pill count should take care of this.

And sorry...I'm still confused...LOL...but I was looking at past posts...and thought you recently moved from VA to IL....But you have now moved back from IL to VA?

And just fyi but Percocets are the same opiate as what you are taking now Oxycodone. But are you saying you can't take Tylenol products? I am on OxyIR myself as I didn't need the acetaminophen in every pill.

The last thing you can do after you show them the pill bottle is to ask to pay for another test and have you come in the am...have them watch you take your medication...and then take the test and see how it comes out. This way they can see if there is anything wrong with the test or the way you are metabolizing the meds. Although I assume this wasn't your first urine test and they have all been good previously?

Another thing that either this PM or the next one you find will be to hopefully move you to a long acting medication. It's very unusual to be on a short acting one long term. The states and DEA have been cracking down on Drs. who prescribe short acting meds past the 3 months mark as that moves from acute pain to chronic pain.

So by putting the patient on a long acting med it helps the patient manage their pain better as well as not have to take so many pills each day. It is a consistent level of pain mgmt.

I hope that you can find a new Dr. soon if you can't get it straightened out with this one!
SB (Snowbunny) and the pup that snores (my yellow lab:))

3, two-level, cervical fusions over the past 11 years. The last one was anterior and posterior with lots of fun titanium!
Still have active herniations along with knee problems and another Morton's neuroma in left foot.
I try to find joy in each day even with chronic pain:)

grandmaroses
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 1355
   Posted 8/10/2012 9:32 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi great grandma, I just feel so bad when I read about the receptionist at doctors office treating patients so poorly. I have actually talked to my own drs reception manager to ask her to get her personnel to stop being so crabby. We are in pain and when we go to a dr it's not because we are bored its because we have to go.
I would speak to her boss, everyone has one these days. I also try to have my adult daughter come to m apps with me so there is no confusion.
I hope things get sorted out quickly for you as being without our meds should ever be an option.

I do not understand the contracts and testings and such because my doctors do not do any of that here, at least not that I am aware of.
Take care
Rose



Insulin Dependant Diabetic, Fibromyalgia, Gerd, IBS, Sleep Apnea, COPD, Spondylolistesis, Diabetic Neuropathy, Fatty Liver, High Cholesterol

Matt-man&little-boy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 788
   Posted 8/10/2012 11:43 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi, I'm so sorry what you just went through, and because I'm on workers compensation, I've been scared to death of the same thing. I have one quick question, have you ever had any kind of stomach or bowel problems that would account for a malabsorbtion factor? I had a gastric bypass, and will never absorb the full amount of my prescribed meds. They did test me when I started at my back surgeon, and they said, for what I had at the time, my levels were very low. But the surgeon said that's part of my gastric bypass.

I would think, if you do have some digestive issues, this would account for low levels, and should sway the doctor back to being on good terms again. I've been told that even polyps can change the way your body absorbs something.

If you do have digestive problems, I would bring those to the PMs attention as soon as possible.

I really hope you find some resolution for this, thats just an aweful cruel thing to do to an honest person. Take care, and God bless.

greatgrandmatoo
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 8/11/2012 6:35 AM (GMT -6)   
idea   you all are so good to me by answering my questions so please feel free to ask if I am not being clear or jump around too much.  i am a nervous wreck.  I can't get this off my mind. 2Y4T, Yes, I have gastrointestinal issues all my life, from early childhood on.  I have been tested for celiac disease, (don't have that thank God) but I have trouble alot with Heliocobacter Pylori. I also have problem with nausea but that I can handle. sometimes I throw up in the middle of the night is when it is the worst. I still try to take my pain meds because i can't deal with this pain. Also wouldn't that type of med calm the stomach muscle down?   
I have always had a good relationship with my doctors.  I don't cause trouble and would never do that anyway.  I understand there are rules and regulations as I have a friend back in Illinois whose husband is DEA. 
In answer to bringing my pills in, I was one that did bring my pills in for two straight years I carried my NASCAR bag with me to her office. Then one day i forgot my bad in the foyer, and drove all the way there and they told me not to worry about it.  That unless i had new prescriptions from my doctors, then bring them in to be recorded.  i always told her everything.
 
I can't take acetamenaphrine nor can i take NSAIDS.  I have ended up in prompt care last November so dehydrated that they did a fast push of two bags of IV fluids. they pumped into me liquid stomach calmer and got scripts for zantac.
 
Grandmaroses, hello, yes and it all started with this ex-nurse who is called the nurses Adminiatrator in PM doctor's office. She is very hardcore as far as treating patients in a pain clinic. she told me a couple months ago when I called to see if I could get an injection in my lumbar (I was having lots of pain from falling after i had hip replacement surgery mind you; that was awful) I didn't ask for drugs, I asked for a minor injection cuase the first one didn't do much good. She told me to take over the counter Motrin and lay on a heating pad but i was just going to have to wait till the next month on my appt date.  Again I cried.  I am too old to go through this, and i am also the type of person that tries hard to bare things through and I was told i would have to live with just a little pain.
 
I was only given 30 5 mg of my oxycodone to help me out. That's all the medicine I was given and then told that my doctor could no longer treat me.  I was shocked that the doctor couldn't talk to me about this, but instead had this nurse Adm. come in and talk to me the way she did with no respect and not anything that would be decent to me.  Everything went down so quickly that i felt like I was a ghost sitting in a chair watching.  It was nuts.  I had no illicit drugs in me, and nothing but my own medicine.  I don't stockpile any meds.  And I certainly do not stand on a corner or in my home selling out everything.  This has gone way to far and I am disgusted with the whole mess.
Sorry but I am trying to get everything out as I have nobody to talk with this to see if anybody else has dealt with these issues.
i thank everyone who has taken an interest in my ordeal.  I don't trust that nurse to send any paperwork to me.  she has this i don't give a darn about you attitude.  honestly, it's sad.
 
hugs grannytoo
 
 

greatgrandmatoo
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 8/11/2012 6:49 AM (GMT -6)   
I have to answer another question, sorry. Yes i took medicines in for counts or to be looked at for like two years. But I also notices that hardly anyone else was bringing their meds into the office. I asked them about that and my doctor and her nurse at that time said i was one of her patient's that followed rules. go figure that one out. Hope I am not driving anybody crazy with this....I don't want to sound off like whiner and complainer. That's also one thing that i never have done to a doctor. My doctor knew I was quiet and reserved. I am so hurt right now and i just read in VA law for patients. It amazed me that I was suppose to be informed by the doctor, not a nurse, and that i was to have a 30 supply of medicine adequate for one month till I found someone to take me as a patient and they were to offer a referral. i got none of that. I swear, I know that i gave a right to those records and I want a full copy.
Disabilities include Degenerative Joint Disease, Osteoporosis, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Supraventricular Tachycardia SVT (cardiac), Artherosclerosis, Peripheal Neuropathy, Restless Leg Syndrome, C5,6, and 7 herniation/spinal compression, herniated L5, 6 and 7. Diverticulitis, Gastrointestinal Disease (flares up and then goes away)

Purgatory
Elite Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 23862
   Posted 8/11/2012 8:35 AM (GMT -6)   
Regardless of what state you live in, you have full rights to any and all copies of any part of your medical records, tests, scans, etc. That is also covered under HIPPA laws, which are Federal laws, and have nothing to do with individual states. You need to get tough, put a request in writing, and demand whatever records you are seeking.

david
Age: 60, 56 at PC dx, PSA 16.3
3rd Biopsy: 9/8 7 of 7 Positive, 40-90%, 4+3
open RP: 11/8, Catheter in 63 days
Path Rpt: 3+4, pT2c, 42g, 20% tumor, 1 pos margin
Incont & ED: None
Surgery Failed, recurrence within 9 months
Salvage Radiation 10/9-11/9, SRT failed within 9 months, PSA 4/12 = 37.x
Spent total of 1 ½ years on 21 catheters, Ileal Conduit Surgery 9/10,
7 other PC-related surgeries
Member of Prostate Cancer & Chronic Pain HW Communities since 10/2008
“I live in the weak and the wounded” – Session Nine (Movie)

greatgrandmatoo
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 8/11/2012 9:05 AM (GMT -6)   
Thank you David.  Thank all of you for the interest you have taken with me and the patience you have shown me.  honestly, I am in a fog and feeling like I am going in circles.  I am going to request through FOIA.  They have to send those to me within a ten day turnaround period.  Although the nurse had told me they were going to get papers out to me for me to sign along with names of other doctors she recommends.
 
One last question, am I going to have to go through all explanations through each doctor that i have now.  I have a Rheumi doctor, my PCP, and others. I am assuming I better prepare to go through all this over and over again. 
 
thank you all and i pray nothing ever happens to anybody like this that i am going through.  I am very suspicious of doctors now.....saddened
 
grannytoo

grandmaroses
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2011
Total Posts : 1355
   Posted 8/11/2012 9:44 AM (GMT -6)   
Grannytoo I would ask a family member or close friend to accompany you as you then have a witness of treatment. I have had issues with stand in doctors and bad attitudes but when I take my daughter I get treated wonderfully usually, lol.

I keep saying we live our lives following the rules not expecting special treatment, trying not to make things difficult for others to be treated like a drug dealing thief by someone who represents a doctor as the receptionist does is wrong and the doctor needs to put her in her place.

You seem to have few issues writing so my suggestion so you do not have to repeat yourself over and over is write a letter to each of your doctors explaining the issue and remind them of your medical history. I have done this and hand delivered it during an appointment to my doctor . He looked stunned read it and immediately addressed my concerns, instead of me getting upset babbling out my problems and him spending more time trying to settle me down, I get tearful when I get upset, not pretty. I also write a list of why I am at the dr office so I do not get side tracked, and forget something important like saying I get nauseous from certain medications.

I know that you are upset I would be as well. Please try not to stress as you wrote your pm office needs to follow the rules just because the nurses administrator was in a bad mood does not mean she can treat you in an unprofessional manner. She was hired by someone complain to her boss I would.
Take care
Rose



Insulin Dependant Diabetic, Fibromyalgia, Gerd, IBS, Sleep Apnea, COPD, Spondylolistesis, Diabetic Neuropathy, Fatty Liver, High Cholesterol

Snowbunny21
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 3557
   Posted 8/11/2012 9:51 AM (GMT -6)   
David is correct that you have rights to your medical records. It's actually under the HIPAA law (two As, not two Ps so you can research this online...many people accidentally spell it like hippo:))

But it stands for the Health Insurance Portability Accountability Act. As mentioned, you will have to pay for the copies. I would definitely get started on that right away.

The reason I mentioned the pill counts is that if this just happened...I would drive back in there to show them your pill bottle and they can count the pills this time to see that you don't have any missing. Because they are accusing you of not taking the required amount....I would think this would help to prove your case.

And I was only asking about leftover pills because you had said that on some days you don't take many or any of them so I figured there would be extra at the end of the month...So I wasn't trying to say anything negative towards this at all. Just that the amount would add up in the pill bottle to show them if you needed to.

And I apologize for asking so many questions...I'm just trying to understand more about what happened to try and help you best...

That's why I was asking if you had taken the prescribed (max) amount the day of the appt. and the day previous. Or whether you had gotten sick in the last 24 hours. And if you told them this at the time of the test....then they would expect to see less medication in your urine test.

I am also in VA...(sorry for the mix up...I thought you had moved to IL)..LOL...And my Dr. is ok with me taking less somedays and then the max prescribed other days as we have it set up that way to help during bad days. So when they do the urine test once a year....they ask for the exact amount that I have taken in the 24 hours so that the amount I say equals the test.

Do you have a copy of the contract you signed with them? The reason I ask is that the Dr. can put what he wants in that contract and if he wrote that if a patient fails a urine test, they do not have to provide 30 days of the exact same prescription. So I would look into this to check before pursuing that avenue. Same thing with offering a referral. I don't think that is part of a law they have to follow. I think it's different if they are retiring or shutting down the practice, but I think the rules change when the patient fails a drug test or pill count. That's why it's important to get a copy of the contract you signed with them.

And one last question...sorry...Do you know if this was a urine dip stick test that is done in the office? Or do they send it out to a lab that uses gas chromatography mass spectrometry? This is where if they only used a dip stick test...you can request that a lab do the test to prove the levels as that is so much more reliable.

It just seems that they would understand and know about all your digestive/stomach issues and how you metabolize the medication

You ask if you will have to go through explanations with another Dr...It all depends on what they write in your medical records. So I would get those as soon as possible. Because any new Dr. you see will actually request a copy of the records from this Dr.

There is hope though...I had a terrible experience after my 2nd surgery with the surgeon and the PM I was seeing then. They accused me of picking up a prescription for my Percocet when I was out of town! I had called them to ask if my husband could pick it up from their office as I was in NC visiting my dad. They told me that I had already come in that morning to pick it up. I said that is impossible as I am in NC!

We went back and forth and this was the beginning of the end with them as they accused me of trying to get double prescriptions! And the bad part was they did not have their patients sign anything when picking up the prescription so it was my word against the nurse. I told the Dr. that I had proof from my family, credit card receipts, buying gas for my car, etc. all showing the date/time in NC. They didn't believe me and dismissed me from the practice. I found out a few years later it was a nurse who was stealing prescriptions.!

So I was out with zero medication and trying to find a new PM and Neurosurgeon. Thankfully I found the one I have now and they literally hugged me on my first appt. as I was in so much pain. Also turned out the surgeon for my 2nd fusion did a horrible job so I had everything taken out and replaced..

So don't give up hope! You didn't do anything wrong and a good Dr. will be able to see this in you as a person...You will have your records with all your other medical issues, as well as a stellar record of using opiates all the way to this one incident. Again, a good Dr. should be able to see the big picture.

Sending you some hugs (( ))
SB (Snowbunny) and the pup that snores (my yellow lab:))

3, two-level, cervical fusions over the past 11 years. The last one was anterior and posterior with lots of fun titanium!
Still have active herniations along with knee problems and another Morton's neuroma in left foot.
I try to find joy in each day even with chronic pain:)

greatgrandmatoo
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 8/11/2012 5:30 PM (GMT -6)   
it's okay snowbunny.  I understand all the questions and it makes me think clearer than yesterday or the day before because you all are making me think things through.  My daughter is going with me to the PM office on Monday as they are closed on Fridays.
I asked my daughter if she remembered me signing a contract. She can't remember either.  I don't think I did but am looking through all my old records anyway because i guess i will find out on Monday right?  i wonder if they will give me a copy of everything on monday instead of sending all this to me. 
How did you find your new PM doctor?  Did you just go through the internet.  There are only 14 PM doctor's in my area.
By the way, You had asked me once about if I can't take acetamenaphrine, and the answer is no  and that's why I can't take percocets and i told the pharmacy to put that down as a non tolerable drug. I don't take anything but my little 5 mg pills of oxycodone.  The stomach issue my PM doctor knew about from the first time I met her. or at least I hope she remembered this issue.  I didn't have much chance to do anything.....they all left the room and i was just sitting there. I remember Dr saying it's not enough and yes i had taken my first pill of the day four hours before i left for my appt.  The day before i took two pills that day, and went to bed early out of the three i was only to take that day. Would this be a problem?  I can't imagine that it would just fly through my system like that so quickly.  :( 
why is it so important to not have a contract with a doctor?  I am confused on that one, i am sorry to say. 
 
Thank you Snowbunny. By the way, I have a Schnauzer and she comforts me when I am stressed or hurting like this.  She is my baby girl. I love labs, too. PS. just for FYI, I hadn't had a urine test in three years while with my PM doctor.  Weird huh or is this okay. My first and second visit I had one and always took my meds in for a count after that till about one year ago.  .  then all of this took place

Snowbunny21
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 3557
   Posted 8/11/2012 5:47 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks once again for answering so many questions...I am just trying to piece everything together as I'm sure you are.

Now that I realize you only take the 5mg short acting Oxycodone...if they don't use a sophisticated lab, it can be iffy to show enough medicine in your system especially with your digestion/stomach issues.

I'm not sure if they are going to hand over a copy of all your records on Monday. They usually need this request in writing and then need some time (a week or so) to copy them. Unless that is what you are going to do on Monday is hand them a letter...but then you need to get some sort of written note that they received your request. In that letter you can request a copy of the original pain contract if they had you sign one. So, usually people just send this letter certified mail and then you know who signed for it.

Either way, start keeping a journal of every person you speak with and the time/date and action that is to take place.

I'm a bit confused myself on your comment about saying I said to "not" have a contract? I'm not sure where I wrote this and if I did...that was in error. I think most PM's have their patients sign contracts...

I found my PM by researching online. I went to about 4 other PM's all around my area to see if they were a good fit and then found the one I have now. What I've learn to ask over the phone is "Do you all handle pain management with a comprehensive program that includes all modalities?"

This way you are not asking up front if they prescribe pain meds...that would be a red flag to them. A PM that uses all modalities is open to medication as well as all the non medicinal approaches.

I'm so glad that you have your doggy to love on you during this time! My guy has been so wonderful to have around after my divorce and going through my surgeries/pain. He is the one who also motivates me to get out each night for our nice long walk:)
SB (Snowbunny) and the pup that snores (my yellow lab:))

3, two-level, cervical fusions over the past 11 years. The last one was anterior and posterior with lots of fun titanium!
Still have active herniations along with knee problems and another Morton's neuroma in left foot.
I try to find joy in each day even with chronic pain:)

greatgrandmatoo
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 8/11/2012 7:01 PM (GMT -6)   
i think I found some awesome friends here on this forum that I didn't realize before and I am grateful for all the information you have stated to me to help me with my dilemma. That goes for everybody here as well. It's given me a heads up on protecting myself, too. I think I did not use the proper grammar on the "not" thing. :) What I really meant was why is it an issue if some doctor's ask patients to sign a contract and some don't as I have heard this several times from different people and some say it is better not to have a contract. Oh Well, thank you for everything. I am glad also to know that you are from VA. If you think of anything else, please feel free to get on here and ask questions or let me know a tidbit of information.
Disabilities include Degenerative Joint Disease, Osteoporosis, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Supraventricular Tachycardia SVT (cardiac), Artherosclerosis, Peripheal Neuropathy, Restless Leg Syndrome, C5,6, and 7 herniation/spinal compression, herniated L5, 6 and 7. Diverticulitis, Gastrointestinal Disease (flares up and then goes away)

greatgrandmatoo
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 8/12/2012 4:16 PM (GMT -6)   
Hello forum friends.  This is just to let everybody who had to listen to me go over all my frustrations, and venting so much that tomorrow is the day I see my primary care physician which was originally scheduled because of some very large cysts on my kidneys that didn't look right. He is a good doctor but doesn't listen too well, and changes his mind so much that it's hard to keep up with him and I know he probably is aware of my PM issues by now.  I have tried to relax a little and get my ducks in a row like you all told me to do for my own sanity. I have done some major research and some helped me tremendously and others made me depressed like i was doomed for no reason.
 
I have decided to request all my records under FOIA. I pray they release them as soon as possible as the PM doctor gave me 30 pills out of empathy I assume because I was due for my medicine anyway.   I may have mentioned that already as I probably have repeated myself a dozen times on everything.  I am so sorry for all the confusing sentences in my posts.  I am still in duress (sp) and feeling that something is not right... and I will certainly keep you all informed, and hopefully with no more questions.  I have taken into consideration all the information and absorbed it and took notes, and yes, snowbunny, I am takin notes on all communication, phone calls and dates, and anything pertaining to my issue. My daughter is so stressed about me possibly not having care anymore. I couldn't find a copy of a contract but I am also making it clear that I want a copy of that as well as the urine testing and any notes .....
 
Also, may I ask one more question?  Can a nurse Administrator who basically only does the paperwork, give a patient direction for healthcare, and refuse them any interaction with a nurse that works along side the PM doctor in the patient rooms by telling a patient to get over the counter medication with ingredients in it that woud make that patient sick?  More or less, do that have that clout to go over a doctor's word and comments to oversee a patient?  I just may have left that out in my earlier comments. I think anyway. There has to be a better day ahead for me I hope.
 
grannytoo, and hope everyone had a nice weekend. 

Matt-man&little-boy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2012
Total Posts : 788
   Posted 8/12/2012 5:48 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi greatgrandmatoo, again, I'm so sorry you're having to deal with this. After scanning through most of the stuff here, it is apparent to me that you could really use some sound legal advice from an attorney who specializes in malpractice. I see too many very bad and very inhumane possibilities here for you to cross your fingers and hope. I understand if that may not be an option financially, but you need to consider that a black mark on your medical record could haunt you and follow you around for a while, I would urge you to do whatever you can to get some form of knowledgeable help, you might be able to obtain some assistance from organizations close by or possibly even from some kind of patient advocate at a hospital.

This is just wrong and unethical on so many levels. I hope you're able to find some kind of resolution on this quickly. Take care, and if you're able to, please get some help, and regardless of the outcome, I personally would never use that doctor again, and find one who cares.

Snowbunny21
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 3557
   Posted 8/12/2012 6:11 PM (GMT -6)   
Hi Grandmatoo..

I'm pretty sure that your own medical records are not included under the Freedom of Information Act.

The FOIA is about gaining access to records of a Federal Agency.

You already have the right to request copies of your medical records under the HIPAA law.

That is the Health Insurance Portability and Accountability Act.

So, they really should not give you a hard time when you request a copy of your records although as many of us have suggested, it would be best to do this all in writing and send it by certified mail so there is a paper trail of someone receiving this. They have the right to charge you a fee and to take some days to do this.

If for some reason after you request this and they deny it, then you would bring up HIPAA and file a complaint with your insurance company as well the US Government (under the Health and Human Services website you can learn more.

And in regards to your last paragraph with the question...I'm not quite sure I understand...did this person suggest you take Tylenol with acetaminophen and you know you get sick and can't take this....I'm thinking that you wouldn't follow her suggestion. If you feel like sharing a bit more that would help us...

But if someone up front who is an administrator and not an actual Nurse or NP or PA that is involved in my care, I wouldn't be following anything they suggest in the first place.

I hope the appt. with your PCP goes well tomorrow...is there anything they are going to do for these cysts?

Keep us posted and sending out some hugs to you (( ))
SB (Snowbunny) and the pup that snores (my yellow lab:))

3, two-level, cervical fusions over the past 11 years. The last one was anterior and posterior with lots of fun titanium!
Still have active herniations along with knee problems and another Morton's neuroma in left foot.
I try to find joy in each day even with chronic pain:)

greatgrandmatoo
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 8/12/2012 7:18 PM (GMT -6)   
Yes, she told me to get some over the counter NSAIDS and/or Tylenol/Motrin. I told her that would not be feasible for me as I have enough stomach and digestinal problems. Besides I was told not to mix meds up with my oxy by the PM doctor.  No, I didn't take the over the counter meds anyway, and I didn't listen to her advice either. She was a new employee at being there only one week (she acually told me that over the phone) when I had called in June for an injection.  Ididn't know who she was at that time, just all the other nurses who were so very nice and just pleasant to be around. Whenever I asked politely for her to please see if i could get in to get and injection because this usually would help ... she would get very stern with me and tell me I just would have to wait until july 16th at my regular appt. then told me to have a good five weeks till i got to see the doctor.   She just did not want to schedule me a 10 min. slot for this injection and said so in so many words.  So of course, I gave up.  I am not a person who judges others...really i am not, but she stirred up some resentment in me the way she tried to belittle me, and we had never yet officially met. From that day on whenever I called the office about anything, even about my insurance, I  had to go through her to get answers for something or another, it was like pulling teeth out of an alligator  :)  She use to be a nurse but isn't any more, that's all i was told. It's okay.   I will find me a doctor hopefully soon.  I believe that when people are just plain nasty to those that hurt and can't help it, especially human beings with chronic pain, and needing some hope and empathy, it will eventually come back around to them.
 
Thanks for the information, too.  Save me some time on my request. Don't have to do that FOIA now.  I read so much this weekend, too, that I am on overload. 

Professional Patient2
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2012
Total Posts : 18
   Posted 8/12/2012 7:29 PM (GMT -6)   
As a short reply to a comment posted by David, there is a lot of value in taking somone with you to your appointments. They will be a second sent of ears for you, will be a witness and will be able to help you validate the pain and how it is affecting your life day to day. It is not always easy to get someone to have the time to go but it is worth the added effort. It is also good to have that other person there to be objective and to bring up concerns that maybe other people may have about your health that you as the pain paitient may not be aware of. Again, not always easy to make that work. When we are in pain it is hard to keep all of our ducks in a row and to see beyond that existing moment and our many prescription refills. In a way these clinics hold us hostage via medication...just an added thought to add to Davids comment. This has taken me quite some time to learn.
JL

greatgrandmatoo
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 8/12/2012 8:23 PM (GMT -6)   
confused   Boy you got that right, Prof. Patient2 and I am scared of the withdrawal and that's what is so sad.  My poor body will not be able to handle that and I am so angry that nobody in that office cared enough to talk to me in the right way with respect.... They don't have to go through any of it or worry about what they will feel like in a month or so.  I will.  Then with me having 8 specialists for all the health issues I have, i am so worried they will run me out of their offices or treat me with ill regard because I am sure they will all get a writeup and I feel abused in my rights, and how this all went down.  i trusted her and she promised me that I would never have to worry about going through withdrawal because she was a professional and there were ways to help a patient get through all that stuff, and now i am going to face it all.  I am so mad because in the beginning i was frightened of taking oxy even though i didn't know how to handle the types of pain I was going through.  Your right also about the fact that we live in a world of pain meds that we so desperately need to feel halfway human. I know how that felt too.  I understand and i have so much empathy for each and every body in this Chronic Pain forum.  thank you all too for being there for me and my family.  As they will be going through all of it with me. 
 
2Y4t, thank you also for responding on this thread.  I appreciate everybody's concerns.  Your right too as it goes about advocates for me or even just anybody that has been dumped.  I can still feel that feeling I had as I walked through the office and out the very door that used to be a wonderful feeling to know I could get pain help there and in a split second the assumptions were flying, without talking to me,  and i was crying driving home wondering what in the world just happened.  It's crazy and i am mad at myself for signing a contract if that's what I did.  I can't find it in my records.  it's been three years.  the Administrator that treated me so nasty and giving me bad advice as to what i should do for my health in a pain management clinic, well, it was wrong of her to do that.  however, how can yu fight a large system as the medical community.  while waiting for help I will be so sick I won't care.  I have PKD, Osteoarthritis (DJD) Osteostenesis of the spine with spinal compression, Peripheal Neuropathy, Fibromyalgia, SVT supraventricular tachycardia, Miofacial pain, hip replacement surgery in April, and needing the right hip replaced now. L5,6, and 7 rubbing bone on bone. Quite the load, isn't it.   I am just going to have courage, and commitment to being honest and hang on to hope.
But I am also going to get tough and not be afraid of what is ahead of me. 
 
 
grannytoo,  :)  Take care ya all.

rocckyd
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 436
   Posted 8/13/2012 11:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Ugh...this whole situation is such a mess. I hate that this is happening to you.

Out of curiousity, what part of VA are you in? I missed this if you mentioned it already. I'm in SW Va and love my pain dr.
35yrs old. JRA since a kid. Chronic Uveitis, pleurisy, pericarditis, intersticial lung disease, sjorgrens syndrome, Cushing's Syndrome, gastroparisis
Bilateral TMJ replacements due to bone fusion, port-a-cath, GJ tube

greatgrandmatoo
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 58
   Posted 8/13/2012 1:00 PM (GMT -6)   
I am in South East in the big cities. We are only 10 minutes from beach. Are you more toward the Alegheny Mountains then or just SW of the 7 cities where I am at? There is another young lady who is from VA and she is a sweetheart. she loves to help us out with her super information and guidance. There are only 14 PM specialists right in this area and it's the largest city.
I did find out that i have pernicious anemia which can cause certain malabsorption problems and I have a lot of issues with food digestion and helicobactor pylori which is a problem. See, I hadn't been tested for over 2 years. I can't imagine that....
I didnt havea good day today either. Everything went wrong. My letter won't print that I want to send to my gastroenterologist, and PCP. these are the doctors who can give me copies of my issues with food and medicine, nausea that I have issues with, and my food sometimes just sits in my stomach for a couple days. I know sounds gross. Well makes me wonder if my meds were not flowing properly through my system!! I don't know but i have heard this to happen. My little 5 mg pills weren't completely taking all pain away but i was okay, ya know. i was grateful.

thank you Rocckyd.....for caring.
Disabilities include Degenerative Joint Disease, Osteoporosis, Rheumatoid Arthritis, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome, Fibromyalgia, Supraventricular Tachycardia SVT (cardiac), Artherosclerosis, Peripheal Neuropathy, Restless Leg Syndrome, C5,6, and 7 herniation/spinal compression, herniated L5, 6 and 7. Diverticulitis, Gastrointestinal Disease (flares up and then goes away)
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