Radio-Frequency? Nerve Pain! Facet Joint Problem!

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stayingafloat
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 87
   Posted 8/4/2007 9:09 PM (GMT -7)   
Hello,
 
I had radiofrequency surgery last August and am having it again this August because my nerves grew back.  Does anyone have a successfull story about RF?  My pain Dr. says there is a chance that the nerves may not grow back at all, and then also some people have to have RF once a year to keep the pain away because the nerves always grow back.  Is there another surgery option to kill nerves or remove them.  I just want to be sure that it is worth it and that something else might not be better or more successfull.  The real problem is my facet joints are injured and constantly cause my nerves to send pain signals to my brain.  Or is there maybe a facet joint repair, replacement?  I appreciate any info. regarding this, thank you and I wish you all a pain free weekend, well atleast tolerable.
 
Crystal confused

SkyDancer
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Date Joined Jan 2004
Total Posts : 103
   Posted 8/5/2007 3:08 PM (GMT -7)   
Hello Stayingafloat
I have never really met anyone that had complete success from RFA as to where the no longer had any pain at all. In fact.. it is reported that results from RFA vary from 60 to 90%. There is a tendency for recurrence within 1–2 years. Lucky enough they can repear this proceudure..so if was effective for a year for you...its ok to get it done again and hopefully you will get another year with it. There are differerent chemicals that they can use to inject and kill nerves also. The chemical used to kill nerves is usually either alcohol or phenol . Have you ever tried using a TENS unit or even interferential stimulation? How often are they looking at your area of pain? Any chance of bone spurs being new back there? These often start to grow in people with facet joint pain. I do hope that you are able to find something to settle down your pain and allow you to have some type of more active life style. Good luck with the RFA if you choose to go thru it again.
Be well
SkyDancer
 


stayingafloat
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 87
   Posted 8/5/2007 3:19 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi Sky,

 

That is interesting to know about RF, this seems to be the only option they say for me to have relief so far.  I am going to have it done because I need to try and manage this pain asap.  I have not had an mri for atleast a year and my case is work comp, so thorugh them even though changes may occur I doubt that they will allow another one, unless the Dr. insists.  I appreciate all the info.  I have tried tens and such mostly just very short term help.  I really just want the nerves to die, that would make me a very happy camper.  I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend, if you need to chat I am here.

 

Thanks again,

 

Crystal


Lakeside
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 138
   Posted 8/5/2007 4:10 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi StayingAfloat! Thank your for sharing your experiences w/ RFA procedure. I have CP in my lumbar facets & this week will have my 2nd set of injections. So far, my pain has been reduced a little---no miracle cure, but it is less. Dr said that's good news for being a candidate for future RFA of the facet joints.
He also said, as you mentioned, that many times the nerves regenerate, but sometimes they don't or at least take a long time to grow back & during that time, pain can be less over-all.
I don't know of anything else (some other treatments were mentioned above) that works & doc said that nothing would relieve my pain totally, ever, but I'll be happy w/ a "2"...I could sure live w/ that!
My discomfort ranges daily from a 3 to a 6-7....so a "2" sounds wonderful!

Thank you again for your thoughts for relating your personal experience. Do you have chronic facet inflamation also? ( I do) Do you take any NSAID-type meds for that? Do you get relief?

Hope you are "managing" OK today! It's cool & damp & rainy here today...doesn't help either!

~ Lakeside
2 lumbar surgeries for L4-L5-S1 cystic tumor & post-surgical CSF leak complications. (Fall of '06). Central canal stenosis, severe degnerative arthrosis, grade 1 (21% shift) spondylolisthesis @ L5-S1 area, sensory & nerve function loss & radiculopathy in r leg/foot, on-going facet pain, sacral/illiac pain, lots of epidural fibrosis @ L5/S1.


stayingafloat
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 87
   Posted 8/5/2007 4:19 PM (GMT -7)   

Lakeside,

 

My facet joint problem is a result of an injury a patient fell on me while I was working in the hospital and he turned into dead weight and it injured t1-t5, I have chronic pain on my left side around my shoulder blade.  So everything I do with my left arm is painfull, it happened on 3/06 and I am still having pain.  I am on hydrocodone during the day, but after surgery hopefully I will not need it anymore.  I am concerned because I had about 6 months relief the 1st time hoping this time the nerves won't come back.  I don't mind having RF, it just is 6-8 weeks before I feel better and no guarantee for how long.  I know that you probably are very similiar ro me in this.  I wonder if there is facet replacement or something that could permanetely help us?  I was a pre-nursing student before this and am now trying to figure out what to do, because nursing requires lifting frequently.  Have you found work that is tolerable to you?  I want to finish school, but am affraid to complete nursing with this issue.  Let me know what your take is on this, please.  I appreciate your story and wish you well, I am here if you need to chat.

 

Thanks again,

 

Afloat


Lakeside
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 138
   Posted 8/5/2007 6:11 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Afloat, again~! Your facet area is above mine but I would imagine the pain is similar, as there are facet joints all the way down....on each side...! Lots of potential for pain there, as we can attest!
I'm an elementary teacher, so lifting etc is no problem; I have been home (not teaching) since last Oct when this all began, but do plan on returning to school at the end of this month. That's why I'm having the injections now & the possible RFA next summer, if the injections can keep the CP at bay for the schoolyear.
I understand that the RFA leaves you in more pain, temporarily? So I will have that done after schoolyear ends. My hope is to get thru 181 days w/o taking major meds during the day (can't!)---I take 1/4 hydrocodoneIBF in the AM w/ tons of asprin all day...then Flexeril/Advil etc in PM to off-set (ha!) the built-up pain from the day....! Hasn't been working too well...now add 20 kids to the mix...arrrrugh! That's why I'm curious about the RFA you had & how long your relief was. Did it really take you 6-8 weeks (after the RFA) to feel a benefit? And then you had only 6 months of relief? See, that would take me only 1/2 thru a semester....! And if I had the RFA during the schoolyear, I don't have "summer vacation" to recover....
So my work will be tolerable, only to a certain point, & that's an unknown yet. I'm hoping that the L4/L5 & S1 injections (2nd set) I get Thurs will reduce my discomfort enough for me to teach until end of Oct, when Teacher's Convention is, then have some more, then make it to Spring Break, have some more & make it to summer, then have the RFA....
Oh, the accommodations we all make for this CP! Not complaining, mind you, just observing & feeling a bit worn-out already, just planning for all this....! Used to just jump outta bed.... !
Be a nurse, still; my mom is an RN & I think nursing is like teaching....you are born to it. But you may have to make some adjustments, etc. but don't abandon your career dream. It was the loving & dedicated RN's that took such great care of me, esp the 2nd time when I was a total emotional basket-case (my spinal "invasions" were only 3 weeks apart) & their gentle hands & hearts truly kept me sane & helped me start to heal....be that "angel" for someone. And you know what pain is, so you will be a marvelous nurse. I used to be a Tigger-type teacher (bouncing around the room, etc) Now I need to be less so...but I can still teach. We are now different---CP changes us---but we can still hold onto our dreams.Thank you for your story, also. And for sharing your thoughts on RFA. Very much appreciated.
~Lakeside
2 lumbar surgeries for L4-L5-S1 cystic tumor & post-surgical CSF leak complications. (Fall of '06). Central canal stenosis, severe degnerative arthrosis, grade 1 (21% shift) spondylolisthesis @ L5-S1 area, sensory & nerve function loss & radiculopathy in r leg/foot, on-going facet pain, sacral/illiac pain, lots of epidural fibrosis @ L5/S1.


stayingafloat
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 87
   Posted 8/5/2007 6:42 PM (GMT -7)   
VIEW IMAGEHi again lakeside,
 
Don't get me wrong the RF did help, my case is rare in the nerves returning early, My Dr. said that most all of the patients that have RF done do have relief for abt. a year.  I'm not sure in my situation what happened, but it did help greatly, I wa.s working at a hospital as a tech when it came back and had to give it up do the pain aggravation from helping patients.  I think it is important that you have RF you may be one of the people that has great result, which is what I hope to be this second time around.  Since your mom is an RN, I was wondering if you might share my story with her and see what her take is on it.  The concern I have is lifting, it aggravates the pain something aweful and I don't want to put myself in more pain because of my job choice versus something that is less physically demanding.  I guess I'm just scared because I was well enough after the surgery to go back to the hospital and I had to quit and I do not want that to be the case with nursing.  The 6-8 weeks is hard, there is pain after the procedure, because it is the time when your nerves are actually dying.  It can vary timeframe wise, but it just depends on your body, which all of our are different, relief you will have but your body wil let you know when you are well.   I was abt. 90% for 6-months, that I can bear.  I hope it will help you as much.  Ice packs are my best friends, make sure to have them for after the surgery you will cherish them, trust me:)  I hope this is helpfull and I really appreciate your input.  Take care:)
 
Afloat

Lakeside
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 138
   Posted 8/6/2007 2:21 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Afloat! Just came home from packing up one classroom to move to another...my back is in flames, so I need to attend to that, but just to answer your question about lifting & nursing: my mom said that when she was a nurse (years ago) the RN's did more bedside care, which involved lifting, etc. but today she feels that the CNA's tend to more of that & the RN's do more "technical/charting" etc ... that was her reason for retiring, b/c she enjoyed the more personal client care & ended up doing mostly paperwork....just her opinion, of course. I know many RN's who also do a lot of physical work, so you would want to check w/ whomever would employ you as to what they expect, etc. Have you thought of working in a clinic rather than in acute care? A friend of mine is an RN for a local dermatologist...no lifting there. Sounds like you have a lot to consider.
Thank you for the extra info on the RFA & the extended recovery time needed. I'd heard that, also, from my neuro's nurse. She had a cervical RFA & needed a month off to recover. So next summer seems appropriate for me to advance to that treatment, as I don't have 6-8 weeks off during the schoolyear.

Still looking fwd to my 2nd injections on Thurs. Maybe the 2nd set will be more effective? My relief from these lasted only about a week. But relief is still relief! Kept it to about a "4" on most days, which is down from my usual "6". Shooting for a "3" for the schoolyear! :) Let's hope, huh!

Thanks again!
~Lake
2 lumbar surgeries for L4-L5-S1 cystic tumor & post-surgical CSF leak complications. (Fall of '06). Central canal stenosis, severe degnerative arthrosis, grade 1 (21% shift) spondylolisthesis @ L5-S1 area, sensory & nerve function loss & radiculopathy in r leg/foot, on-going facet pain, sacral/illiac pain, lots of epidural fibrosis @ L5/S1.


stayingafloat
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 87
   Posted 8/6/2007 2:28 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi Lake,

 

Thanks for asking her for me I really appreciate it, sorry you are hurting, take some meds so you can feel better.  I have heard nurses say both things that there are a lot of non-lifting nurse jobs, but they are only available after you have a lot of experience.  I have also heard nurses tell me to save myself now, so I can be physically able to live my life and not hurt myself anymore.  This is so confusing....  I know I will figure it out, sometimes it doesn't seem possible.  I have been a little sad lately and that I know doesn't help, but I'm trying to stay positive.  I hope you are feeling better, keep in touch, I appreciate all the info. scool

Afloat

 


stayingafloat
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 87
   Posted 8/6/2007 3:09 PM (GMT -7)   

Lakeside,

 

Me again, just wondering if you are also having depression symptom's.  I was doing o.k. after I had my surgery and then for about the last four months ago I have been quite down.  I got out today and did some shopping for a friend who is getting married, I felt better doing that.  I had to get out of the house, lately I just don't feel like myself, I am usually strong minded and opinionated and I feel that is pushed aside right now.  Has your Dr. talked to you abt. this at all?  Well just thought I'd throw it out there, they say it is normal with chronic pain, but I guess I don't want it to be.  Well take care,  storms are coming here in Indy, gotta be safe:)

 

Afloat


Lakeside
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 138
   Posted 8/6/2007 6:28 PM (GMT -7)   
Afloat,

Yes, feelings of depression, loss, sadness, etc are all totally normal. Not that it makes it any easier to accept these feelings, but they are part of the CP load. Your "old self" is missing, that feeling of well-being, of trust in your body, the care-free days of jumping out of bed & greeting the day w/o the constant pain reminding you that you no longer can "just do that" anymore...

I had a class of 23 students, bright & beautiful 2nd graders whom I dearly loved & enjoyed each day...then on Oct 23 my tumor caused sudden & excrutiating sciatic pain--out of the blue!-- & a week later I had my 1st laminectomy, then the 2nd surgery 2 weeks later, bigger more invasive, leaving permanent disabilities...I never went back to school this year, gave up my class to a sub, couldn't even get out of bed until January....plucked from the land of the "well & whole" and deposited into the land of the infirm, OVERNIGHT....no warning, no preparation (the assignments were on the blackboard for the next day!) no "good-byes" to my class....so yes, depression (in may case anyway) set in & I was not surprised by it, nor did I wonder about it. I am still not myself, 7 months later now, & I think there is a NEW "self" somewhere waiting for me, but I have not yet discovered it. I am in the process of finding it, thru the medications, the treatments, the different modalities I'm trying...not to ever recapture that previous self, but to become comfortable with some yet-unfound "new" self, with CP, with limitations, with adjustments but I do believe it is out there, waiting & that I can learn to live a good life in spite of all this...
It takes time, more time than I've yet given to it. The CP wears me out still. It is pervasive, ever present, tiring....all the constant little accommodations I must devote to it each day, all day....takes energy away from the delight in just living from sunrise to sunset each day. BUT...and here's the "but": it could be so much worse. I am happy it is not worse. I may not be better (yet) but I am not worse! Yet! :) Or ever, hopefully!
I hope your Indy storms have passed over by now! I live along Lake Michigan, so I know how fast they form! Be at peace tonight, know that others understand and care. We're in this together; I hurt tonight, but others hurt more. Doesn't take away from my pain (or yours) but knowing how bad it could be (knowing how bad is was...) does afford a little comfort.
I enjoy your thoughts! Take good care of yourself! Let your mind follow your body...and listen to your body. There is great wisdom there.
Have a peaceful night!
~Lakeside
2 lumbar surgeries for L4-L5-S1 cystic tumor & post-surgical CSF leak complications. (Fall of '06). Central canal stenosis, severe degnerative arthrosis, grade 1 (21% shift) spondylolisthesis @ L5-S1 area, sensory & nerve function loss & radiculopathy in r leg/foot, on-going facet pain, sacral/illiac pain, lots of epidural fibrosis @ L5/S1.


stayingafloat
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 87
   Posted 8/6/2007 9:08 PM (GMT -7)   

Hello again,

 

I hope you are fast asleep and feeling well.  I appreciate your kind words.  I too feel as though my old self is not here anymore, I just wish I could snap out of it, but I know it is not that easy.  It is so nice to have someone to talk to that walks in your shoes.  Not that I wish you any pain because I don't but it is nice to know I'm not crazy, just scared and in pain.  I think the pain meds make the emotional side worse.  They do help with the pain, but I do truly feel like I'm not the same.  I have had life issues that brought me down, but I was always able to spring back to myself.  I think this is probably the first time that I have really felt that I have lost myself, not totally.  The spring in my step, the giggles, the just joy of enjoying everyday.  I am trying to find appreciation that I am not bedridden or quadraplegic or diagnosed with any other major diseases.  I am gratefull for that everyday, I just want my joy back.  I will also fight through and find a new self, it is hard but I am working on it.  Thank you again and I hope you have a great week.

 

Afloat


Lakeside
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 138
   Posted 8/7/2007 5:57 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Afloat!
Sorry for the delay...it's been a painful day! Some sort of front moved thru here & left some soggy humid & hot weather...bad for pain! Ugh! Been taking asprin/Advil like M & M's all day....!
Yes, I understand totally feeling that your "lost" yourself. I, too. The CP is hard enough, but not knowing who you are anymore is almost as bad, sometimes worse. I, also, don't laugh as easily, or smile as much or even find as many things amusing as b4....you just can't when you hurt all the time. It simply drains you down....you spend the day just "suriving" from pill to pill, not able to be spontaneous or light-hearted, as you usually are. (As I assume you were, as was I.) I even had a major new "crease" between my eyebrows that wasn't there last fall, b4 all this....from being in pain while SLEEPING. I'm sure...never considered Botox b4, but it's tempting....! It's from wincing in pain 24 hrs a day for 7 months....! Leaves its mark! Bah!! :(

ANYWAY....please know that I think of you & wish you well. If you ever need to vent or complain or just scream, do so! Those pain meds DO make the emotional component worse....it;'s not in your head to feel that way. When I take my hydrocodone, I get some back-pain relief, but my brain is affected & my emotions...so then it's a hard decision to make: be in pain but be "real" or be in less pain but be "fuzzy/slow/detached", not myself, not "real". We shouldn't have to choose....but sometimes we must. It simply hurts too much sometimes to do otherwise.
Thank you again for sharing your concerns & reactions/thoughts. You are very brave. I hope you have a restful (however you get there...!) night!
I will try, also.
~Lakeside
2 lumbar surgeries for L4-L5-S1 cystic tumor & post-surgical CSF leak complications. (Fall of '06). Central canal stenosis, severe degnerative arthrosis, grade 1 (21% shift) spondylolisthesis @ L5-S1 area, sensory & nerve function loss & radiculopathy in r leg/foot, on-going facet pain, sacral/illiac pain, lots of epidural fibrosis @ L5/S1.


stayingafloat
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 87
   Posted 8/7/2007 7:18 PM (GMT -7)   

Hi Lakeside,

 

Sorry I have been so chatty, not one to complain a lot usually, well until the injury anyway.  I do appreciate your concern and thoughts.  I know we will both find  a somewhat comfortable place at some point.  The weather bothers me a lot as well, I joke and say I should be a weather person because I can tell when a front is moving in or out.  I am sorry you had such a painfull day.  I actually am getting a cold or bronchitis so I stayed home from work and have been on the couch most of the day.  I started feeling bad last night, but I thought it might go away with rest, not that lucky.  So I will be vegging around for the next few days or so.  Well take care of yourself, I'm wishing you well.

 

Afloat


ohthepain
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 353
   Posted 8/8/2007 7:15 AM (GMT -7)   

Hi, I figured I would weigh in on this one.

I have now had about 5 facet blocks & 2 Rhizotomy (RF) procedures done. My doc did 3 blocks b4 proceding to the Rhizotomy, 2 helped 1 didnt & all for varriying amounts of time. The first Rhizotomy was awesome....I got almost a full year of relief before the pain started to return and it took another 6 months for the pain to be back at full force, I had another block shortly after & then another about 3 months prior to having 2nd Rhizotomy. I also had an Epidural 3 weeks before the Rhizotomy which I will NEVER EVER EVER do again!! Just for the record ;) This 2nd Rhizotomy was done back in April and I have to say it was not as effective as the 1st, I am still having a bit of lower back pain that I did not have after the 1st procedure so I am a bit dissapointed about that. I will probably have it done again because for now it is the best option. They tell me there is nothing else they can do so I do what I can. Good luck, hope you are one of the ones who gets long term relief!!


 ~Carina
 

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

-Benjamin Franklin


stayingafloat
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 87
   Posted 8/8/2007 12:41 PM (GMT -7)   

Carina,

 

Thanks for sharing your experiences.  It is hard to figure out what are the best options for us as far as relief is concerned.  I wish you luck too in finding a treatment that works for a longer period of time.  Take Care:)

 

Afloat


ohthepain
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 353
   Posted 8/8/2007 1:19 PM (GMT -7)   

Thanks Afloat,

Hey, a year is better than nothing thats for sure. And yes, its so frustrating trying to find something that will work! Good luck to you as well!


 ~Carina
 

"Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both."

-Benjamin Franklin


Lakeside
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 138
   Posted 8/8/2007 6:56 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Afloat & Carina!

Thanks for the morale boost! I agree---a year would indeed be better than nothing---heck, I'll take a few MONTHS of relief!

I go in for my SI injection tomorrow, then another L4/L5 in a few weeks....keeping thr RFA in "reserve" for later...will be sore, but it might work again...last shots worked for about a week...maybe these will last longer?

Comforting to know others have been down this path also!

Sleep welll, however you manage it!
~Lakeside
2 lumbar surgeries for L4-L5-S1 cystic tumor & post-surgical CSF leak complications. (Fall of '06). Central canal stenosis, severe degnerative arthrosis, grade 1 (21% shift) spondylolisthesis @ L5-S1 area, sensory & nerve function loss & radiculopathy in r leg/foot, on-going facet pain, sacral/illiac pain, lots of epidural fibrosis @ L5/S1.


kttn251977
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 554
   Posted 8/8/2007 11:26 PM (GMT -7)   
I was told by my PM dr that RF is a 50/50 chance. Some people do have about a 2-5% pain level, and others it just does not work for. I would not have been happy if I didn't try. Unfortunatly, it was not successful for me. But, there was a lady next to me in the pre-op area who said she had one over a year ago and she was completely off her BT meds. She was getting another one done that day. My PM dr's are wonderful to be upfront with me about it. I can say my leg did have a burning feeling for about 2 weeks, and it was much harder than usual to walk around.But, like I said- I would not have done anything differently- I would have tried anything to get some relief- even if it just dropped one point on the pain scale. Good Luck. (and mine is lower spine)

Shane G.
New Member


Date Joined Jun 2009
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 6/12/2009 1:16 PM (GMT -7)   
Please Help
 
I had a facet Lumbar Rhizotomy on Tuesday and here it is Friday and I am in more pain than when I started.  I have been reading all those posts here and just wanted to confirm this was normal?  How soon can I feel relieve from this because I am tired of the pain killers and thought this was the fix all solution.  Not sure what to do if this doesn't work.  Is fusion the next answer?  Thanks for everyone's time and I hope people are more successfull at dealing with this pain than I am. 
 
Shane

LdyJane
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 903
   Posted 6/12/2009 1:23 PM (GMT -7)   
Shane it is not only possible, but probable that your pain will get worse after an RFP or Rhizotomy; the nerves are very unhappy with what they have been subjected to. It can take up to a month for some to become pain free.

I have had some where it doesn't bother me all that much and I had one last Monday and I'm paying for it big time right now! So yes, I'm using Motrin to help with the inflammation and pain as well as ice or heat (depending where you are in the healing cycle and this gets me through.

Hang in there!
Janice

straydog
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 13481
   Posted 6/12/2009 1:57 PM (GMT -7)   
Shane I had both cervical and lumbar done. I had some relief but the pain came back. This is not a permanent fix. Its like putting a bandade on the problem. At first the pain was worse but it did get better. Susie


Chartreux
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 9622
   Posted 6/12/2009 2:24 PM (GMT -7)   
Over the last 2 1/2 years I've had epi's, facet injections, nerve blocks, Rhizotomies and RFA's with no really good outcome
and all done on my lower lumbar spine. although, a steroid injection on my left knee gave me almost 5 months painfree,
but alias that too has ended...
Will wish you well on these procedures though and sure hope they can help you, but they are not a permanent fix as Susie mentioned..
Soft hugz...
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