Has anyone had something called prolotherapy?

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mexximelt
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 38
   Posted 8/30/2007 10:15 AM (GMT -7)   
If anyone has had a treatment called prolotherapy please let me know all about it.  Also as I am in the middle of a workers comp claim will they consider this form of treatment?  There is only one qualified MD in my town that does it but he is also a homeopathic (sp?) doctor as well so was wondering if workers comp would allow this?  I have had cortozone injections before for relief but I had too much in one year and horrible side effects.  My understanding is this works the same or better with no cortozone?  Any advice is very much appreciated
 
Geeeezzz, I love this site!  Thanks to you all for sharing your experiences and knowledge yeah

Chartreux
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 9622
   Posted 8/31/2007 7:29 AM (GMT -7)   
From what I read this is a sugar water injection. Do a google search on it. Give it a try and if it works let us know.....Good luck to you.

krunchie
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 9/3/2007 12:32 AM (GMT -7)   
 
 
Hello- this is long answer but I hope you will find it worth reading and helpful !

In response to anyone asking about experience with prolotherapy.

yes I have !

I had a chronic lower back problem(which was basically slack SI ligaments and lumbar ligaments on lower right side...very common indeed) which I had been having treatment from 2 osteopaths for which would not heal - osteopaths who had cured me of all other aches and pains very quickly over the preceding 5 years - I was very confident in these guys so when they couldn't fix me I looked further.

I had xrays and MRIS done so I could see if there were any other reasons for my pain other than lax ligaments - the xrays and mris looked perfect - the traumatologists, osteopaths etc all looked at them and said the same - you look perfect...PERFECT...it's just a bit of hypermobility..it will go away...well after 28 months of NOT going away I was not going to just accept their answers...not just because they had letters after their names and nice white coats...oh no...not me....

I found prolotherapy on the internet and spent 1 year reseearching it every day - I asekd many osteopaths, orthopaedic surgeons - ones who were personal friends AND by going to see specialists at clinics in the UK and Spain and France....nobody that I spoke to had even heard of it !

Well...I can tell you that I wish I had not spent 1 year researching it because I wasted a year of my life by having to tolerate the pain - the prolotherapy was effective very quickly - I wish I had just gone to the doctor I found the first day I read about it !!! BUT...I was lucky....the doctor I saw does nothing but prolotherapy and had had the treatment himself 40 years earlier and as a result studied it and has been a leading practicioner for 35 years - I was lucky to find someone with this experience first time.

I have since learned - through more research and discussions with my doctor - that it is very clear that the success of prolotherapy depends on 3 IMPORTANT THINGS..

1) The skill and experience of the therapist - the therapist needs to be VERY skilled, sensitive and accurate

2) The actual solution the therapist uses - they are NOT all the same - each therapist has his preference - therfore one with more experience can judge what wrosk better.....for example...the solutions used in the US are often NOT as effective as the solution my doctor uses because many doctors are unwilling to use enough of the one of the irritant substances - which also happens to be an antisceptic - because it has in a very small numbers of cases caused temporary but painful side effects - this is apparently very very rare and often due to the inaccuracy of the therapist - as I am informed. The effectiveness of the treatment is clearly
governevd by how much irritant solution is used in each treatment - the more used the quicker and more pronounced the healing BUT there is a limit to how much the body will tolerate - do not forget the healing process is an immune response - prolotherapy provokes an immune response..or it should do if given correctly !

3) ACCURATE diagnosis....I knew what my problem was because I had felt it grow over the years and remember the final injury that provoked this particular injury - I had had lots of treatment with osteos, physios, etc during 15 years of sport - I could feel what the problem was - after a few little injuries you can recognise what type of problem you have.
BUT...to confirm I had the luxury of private health and so i just kept going to see different people - inclusing the main professional winter sports clinic in Barcelona - until I was satisfied I had the info. I went to see the prolotherapist in London with all my mris etc...he just laugheed and said.."I have seen your problem every day of the week for the last 35 years - almost everyone has this problem - I dont need these mris but thanks I will look at them for you...oh yes..as i suspected...you cannot see any problem...well you won't ! The SI ligaments will not show any damage on an MRI..the slightest stretching or damage to these can be very painful but you can't see it. Do you want me to treat you now or do want to mess around for another year ?"

He examined me and clearly demonstrated to me that one side of my pelvis was far more mobile than the other...my previous osteopaths had both diagnosed the same thing - and explained which ligamenst would be treated.... I started there and then...I had far fewer treatments than recommended - I was in the gym within 48 hours...skiing within 2 weeks...I am a ski instructor....I have to travel from Spain to the UK for treatment.

I had 3 treatments between nov 2005 and feb 2006....the problem was 95% resolved by the 3rd treatment...but i should have had a treatment every 3 weeks for about 6 months I reckon..it would have solved it totally and much quicker..i have since had 5 more sessions between may and oct 2006...the function of the joint was stabilised within 4 weeks of first session..my osteopath in Spain was astonished at the change and increase in stability of the right side....bearing in mind he had treated me for 5 years before and regularly had to realign my pelvis...since prolo he has never had to do that. The mobility/movement in the joints is now almost equal on both sides. That has been confirmed by the 2 osteopaths who are not connected to my prolotherapist - both of whom had seen me with the problem.

The pain had gone almost completely by the 3rd treatment..it had reduced to about 20% of original pain after the first treatment.

If I had to sum it up...I would say I am now 100% functional and pain free for 90% of the time..before I was in pain 90% of the time.

the other 10% I feel a slight sensation of stiffness - not PAIN - and this continues to reduce and occur less often..even without treatment...however..i stress...I would prefer to have had more treatments close together to be sure of eliminating the problem and strengthening the ligaments as much as possible..I will have another 3 or 4 treatments very close together when i can afford it just so I don;'t have to think about it for another 30 years !!

Is that enough of a postitve vote for prolotherapy when administered correctly and appropriately ????

Good luck...back pain is horrible..and in most cases TOTALLY curable...DO NOT accept back pain advice from doctors who have NOT suffered it themselves !!!! And do not accept it as part of growing old and something you have to live with. Ask your proltherapist lots of questions..how long have they been doing it, what solution they use etc....they are not all the same - but when you find the right one - you will be very very happy !

mexximelt
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 38
   Posted 9/8/2007 11:31 AM (GMT -7)   
Wow, what incredible information.  I am so glad you saw my post.  I am just starting the process and of course the general theme in the US is "no such thing as an SIJ injury".  I am sure workers comp will not consider prolotherapy as a treatment.  They never authorize the ones that actually work.  Go figure.  If possible, I would like to connect with you directly if I have any questions along the way or if that won't work just look for new posts on here with prolotherapy as a message header.  Thanks again so much for the time and effort you put into your reply.  I truly appreciate it.

HeavyMetal
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 9/13/2008 3:29 PM (GMT -7)   
Dear Krunchie,
What is the name and contact info. of the DR. in London that you went to?
Thank you.

Pamela Neckpain
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 1821
   Posted 9/14/2008 8:41 PM (GMT -7)   
Krunchie!
What a l---o---n---g post you write. Careful how long you sit.
Pamela
After all your research, I almost hate to say this but like Chartreux
I've heard it's "sugar water"

Post Edited (Pamela Neckpain) : 9/14/2008 9:48:32 PM (GMT-6)


BionicWoman
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 243
   Posted 9/15/2008 12:02 PM (GMT -7)   
The injected solution doesn't cause the healing directly. When it's injected into the tendons or ligaments, the solution causes inflammation. The human body naturally responds to inflammation by increasing the blood flow to the area, which delivers oxygen and nutrients to the area and promotes healing. The idea behind prolotherapy is that by insulting tendons/ligaments with the injection of dextrose, the body will have an intense enough response to heal both the inflammation caused by the injection and the underlying problem causing pain.
 
The only drawback I see to prolotherapy is that if your pain is not caused by tendons or ligaments, it won't work.

XENA1515
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2009
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 3/18/2009 3:38 AM (GMT -7)   
I would really like to know the name and address of the doctor krunchie mentioned above in London. Any way of emailing that member was not found. Anyone else have the information?

edt
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 773
   Posted 3/18/2009 6:43 AM (GMT -7)   

Hi All,

Bionic woman is correct in her description of how Prolotherapy works!   A good Prolotherapist will be able to tell you based on your xrays, diagnosis and symptoms, if he can help you!  I went to a well known Prolotherapist here in Phoenix (he is also a teacher of Prolotherapy and is known world wide) when the discs ruptured in the neck, he told me I needed to have surgery STAT (I was hoping he could help me avoid surgery).  He did tell me to come back 3-4 mos after and he could help me!  I did go back and after 6-8 treatments was able to return to work.  I continued to get treatments on an as needed basis (these kept me off pain meds for 3 yrs.) the problem was the ergonomic set up of the testing I was doing was undoing all of the treatments that were helping me. 

Unfortunately, most insurances do NOT cover Prolotherapy....if your on Medicare you have to sign a disclaimer!  If I had the $$$$ I would pursue this treatment for sure!  Most Prolotherapy Dr.'s are M.D.'s with additional licenses,  D.O., Homeopath, Naturopath etc.   

Don't prejudge this treatment, it is a respected therapy by Dr.'s who know what it is.  WC probably will cover this IF your Primary Dr. refers you.  I lost my WC case because I didn't file when the initial injury occured, you have a 1 yr. limit to file! 

Medicare limits your treatments, SSD limits your income, making it difficult to think outside the box shakehead XXOO
Patti


alex1140
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2011
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 8/23/2011 5:37 AM (GMT -7)   
is it anyhow possible to get in touch with krunchie? I,m lookig for someone good in europe doing prolotherapy. I badly need it! He knos someone in London

straydog
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 13466
   Posted 8/23/2011 7:49 AM (GMT -7)   
Alex, first off this is a very old thread, several years old if you will look at the date when it was started. Krunchie was someone that came through here and wrote about this and kept going. He/she did not stay and be an active member of the forum nor was an email address made available. Many times people will come to forums like here at HW and write one post and never be heard from again.

Due to the age of this post I am asking no further comments be made here. Thanks for your help.
Moderator Chronic Pain Forum
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