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sweetiowachick
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 87
   Posted 1/9/2008 9:12 PM (GMT -7)   

 

I found this on....  http://www.healingdaily.com/conditions/Crohns-disease.htm 

The entire solution to Crohn's Disease lies in having a proper diet.

This diet will NOT include sugar, junk food, sodas, or grains of any kind. Even fruit juice will be found in limited amounts because of its high-sugar content. The right diet WILL include healthy doses of probiotics.

What does everyone think about this???

 

I changed the title and some phrases I found confrontational and dogmatic. Lois

 

Post Edited By Moderator (eljay1066) : 1/10/2008 5:48:58 PM (GMT-7)


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 1/9/2008 10:01 PM (GMT -7)   
Sounds similar to something I would post LOL!

There is one exception to this rule though, it's not quite as cut and dried as diet alone...there are plenty of vegetarians who still develop crohns or UC, plenty of people who grew up in households where sugar (processed) could not be found anywhere and with parents whom kept a very strict eye on them regarding eating sugar and then of course there is the fact that IBD is genetic, so if you're genetically predisposed to getting IBD it's a matter of it being triggerd, diet surely could be one way of triggering it, smoking is actually one KNOWN trigger for CD, including second-hand smoke, but so much more needs to be learned...bottom line, it's not diet alone, it's likely many factors and one strong one is genetics...exercise is just as beneficial for a normal healthy functioning bowel as diet is.

:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)


njmom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1884
   Posted 1/9/2008 10:04 PM (GMT -7)   

My daughter tried SCD (the Breaking the Vicious Cycle book)...the problem is, if a med already has you in remission then it is hard to tell whether the diet is working. It is very strict. Not allowed: grains, sugars (except honey), canned fruits and vegetables, processed meats (like ham, hot dogs), milk, potatoes, rice, processed foods like potato chips, etc. Allowed: meats, poultry, eggs, homemade yogurt, aged cheese (not slices of American cheese), fresh or frozen fruits and vegetables, honey.    

The SCD diet is basically a very healthy way of eating. Some people swear by it. My daughter tried going off it and eating wheat, but is now off grains again because she doesn't think the wheat was good for her.

Since she was diagnosed with Crohn's last year, two children in my sister's family have been diagnosed with Celiac's. My other sister's oldest daughter (30), who was diagnosed with IBS, tried going off wheat and presto! now feels much better. So by now we are getting pretty suspicious of wheat. My daughter has been tested for Celiac's, and it was negative, but that doesn't mean she can tolerate wheat. It just means she doesn't have Celiacs and Crohn's.

Some people swear by SCD, while others swear by the Maker's Diet (the book by Rubin). But the author of "Breaking the Vicious Cycle" always allowed a place for meds.

It is fair to say that GIs know more about meds than about nutrition. 


MaryS
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Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 1668
   Posted 1/10/2008 5:48 AM (GMT -7)   
I don't believe that Crohn's is a disease of bad diet. For many it is genetics that dealt them the hand. Many babies/toddlers are diagnosed that haven't had a chance to even develop a bad diet yet!!

Personally, I think diet plays a role but only in controlling nasty Crohn's symptoms and in healing, but definitely not curing!! If Crohn's is a disease of bad diet, there would be a whole lotta even more people being diagnosed with it everyday.

Many patients can find relief and even remission in a healthy diet, but not Cured. Other patients can't so must resort to a combination of med therapy and healthy diet to be able to live their daily life, but not Cured.

Look up famous Crohnie Peter Nielsen and spokesperson for CCFA. Probably the healthiest Man on the Earth. He was able to go years being healthy despite his Crohn's with excellent diet and major exercise, but still Crohn's managed to kick him in the butt down the line resulting in major surgery which saved his life. He did/does everything RIGHT, but never Cured!!

Post Edited (MaryS) : 1/10/2008 8:25:22 AM (GMT-7)


MikeB
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 1169
   Posted 1/10/2008 6:19 AM (GMT -7)   
It seems that every few days there's a post like this here -- the "magic bullet" theory that Crohns is caused by, or can be cured by, one simple thing. I just don't buy it. Crohns is a complicated, multi-faceted disease that has elements of genetic susceptibility, triggering by a wide range of factors including diet and bacteria and who knows what else, abnormal immune system response, etc. If it was as simple as some people would like to believe, there would be one medication for Crohns that worked for everyone, not the dozen or more meds that work for some and not for others. There would be one diet that fixes everyone, not the endless debates about "I can eat this but not that" that vary from person to person and time to time.  I know it's tempting to want to believe in simple theories, but the human body is just more complex than that.

mcleaver1969
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 267
   Posted 1/10/2008 8:49 AM (GMT -7)   
"The entire solution to Crohn's Disease lies in having a proper diet...Crohn's Disease is a disease of bad diet."
Who wrote this article?? I don't like these two lines in particular, I, personally, find them offensive and simplistic. I don't believe that CD is a disease of bad diet...that's ridiculous to me. What about the millions of people who have horrible eating habits but don't end up with CD?? Or the people who have always chosen healthy eating habits but still end up fighting CD?? Scientists are getting closer to pinning down the cause of CD, research uncovers more every day...but I guarantee that the medical field will not pin CD on a "bad diet"...that's ridiculous.
Marci, 38 years young, Rockledge, FL
Dx with Crohn's disease March 2006
Currently on bi-weekly Humira, daily 6mg Entocort, daily 2-3x 5mg hydrocodone (for pain), and daily 75mg Effexor,
plus 3x per day heavy iron supplements for anemia,
calcium supplement, daily multi-vitamin,
Lasix as needed for ankle/feet swelling
Self-proclaimed "recluse"  do to CD  ;)


njmom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1884
   Posted 1/10/2008 9:55 AM (GMT -7)   

Crohn's is not caused solely by genetics. The genetic variant might only predispose you to Crohn's...something else, or possibly several something elses, trigger it.

I clicked onto the link and noticed the article mentioned "Breaking the Vicious Cycle." On Amazon there are plenty of testimonials for the SCD diet, explained in the book.  

CrazyHarry has done well with diet...look for his posts.  

Of course "sugar," "junk food," and sodas are bad for you...who could possibly dispute that? The SCD and other diets are targeted at the substances plus grains, which cause problems for many people, and even the CCFA says it "might be worth a try." 

Sweetio, the problem with what you copied is that it is inflammatory. It could have been said another way. Written as it is, it overpromises on behalf of diets and attacks docs. 


Stef17
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Date Joined Feb 2003
Total Posts : 1811
   Posted 1/10/2008 9:57 AM (GMT -7)   
There is no cure, but I have found that a good diet (SCD for me) can be an IMMENSE help in addition to the medications I take. I think there is something very legitimate to controlling one's diet, but to label CD as a disease of a poor diet - that's ridiculous. No one ate more healthy than I did as a child and I got CD at 16, so that's just silly.

eva124
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 246
   Posted 1/10/2008 12:54 PM (GMT -7)   
i find this kinda insulting, wat bout the fact its our immune system attacking the intestine well the bugs in our intestine?am i wrong bout this?
dx 17th August 2007,after 2 years of syptoms 20 yrs old 100mg azamun,40mg,losec,3000mg pantasa,20mg prednisone,9mg entocort


jdiane
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2003
Total Posts : 1131
   Posted 1/10/2008 2:12 PM (GMT -7)   
I think this thread should be deleted based on the uneducated basis of the article. Mods? Please and thank you.
 
 


Matthew
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2004
Total Posts : 3932
   Posted 1/10/2008 2:16 PM (GMT -7)   
Well, good diets certainly help. However, They ARE NOT a cure. Sorry, no one knows the cause but its not diet alone.

Matthew

hspenser
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 544
   Posted 1/10/2008 2:22 PM (GMT -7)   

certainly there is some merit to the idea...personally I think it is a combination of our diet and our predisposition to the disease....

it isn't just the diet...but certainly I can say from experience that when I am in third world nations eating unproceesed food and almost no bread...I am almost completely free of any crohns related issues.  It has been such a stron g improvement that my wife and I are trying to move ourselves to Costa Rica.

Also the statistics will show that crohns disease is mostly found in developed countries....and developed countries tend to use higher processed foods.

Is food the cause or just one of the triggers?  Who knows for sure...and if the answer were really that simple then the drug companies would have moved on to other diseases since...as was pointed out in an earlier reply....many people follow very strict diets and still have crohns or UC issues.

 

 


dx IBS 1999   UC 2000   CD 2001
Tested BIOGEN TYSABRI (gave me 2 years of remission)
currently on Low Dose Netroxene (started Jan. 19, 2007)...against Dr's wishes, he was pushing for Remicade.  Stopped the Naltrexone July 28th...started Humira Aug 31st, 2007...current dose two shots every other week.
Crohns is currently active and has been since April of 2005
51 yrs old


Illini
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 298
   Posted 1/10/2008 2:44 PM (GMT -7)   
I think there is agreement that it is partly genetic, partly environmental. The type of food you eat nourishes the intestinal flora in different ways, so it is possible that a certain diet may limit the "bad" bacteria that cause crohn's by not feeding them. And if you have antibodies against yeast, then avoiding leavened or fermented products would be logical.

If you have a very strong (genetic) predisposition to Crohn's, then it probably doesn't matter what you eat. For others that are just on the threshold, following a strict diet could keep them asymptomatic, which is essentially a cure.

I have also heard of people who developed Crohn's, had one ileal resection, and then didn't had a problem again--without meds and on a normal diet. So probably they have some other environmental trigger that they have managed to avoid so far.

dunny2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3200
   Posted 1/10/2008 4:48 PM (GMT -7)   
Here we go again.....
Vicky

Too many years with CD
Two bowel resections, several obstructions.


Laughter is the brush that sweeps the cobwebs from our hearts


belleenstein
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2007
Total Posts : 1010
   Posted 1/10/2008 4:49 PM (GMT -7)   
How do you describe this diet as a "good" diet? It may, in fact, be helpful for people with crohn's. They have a serious disease that impairs normal digestion in a variety of ways, so it is possible that the principle behind the Gotthalls (sp) book can be scientifically defended.

But ...

A good diet? Come on folks. It relies on red meat and chicken for protein and eliminates almost all of the natural grain foods that our ancestors through the millenniums have depended upon for survival. Please don't equate this with a good diet. It is a medicinal prescription that works for some people, but it is not a good diet.
Belleenstein:

30+ years living with Crohn's.


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 1/10/2008 5:53 PM (GMT -7)   
There's a huge difference between cause and trigger....cause is being predisposed to something, then it's a matter of it being triggered.

One must be genetically predisposed to getting crohns before it can be triggered...there are people who likely go through their entire lives being predisposed to getting IBD but it never gets triggered for them....there are many possible triggers and food has not been ruled out by researchers, smoking is ONE KNOWN trigger and that includes second-hand smoke, much more still needs to be learned about IBD.

And it's already been advised that eating fast-foods, processed foods (which includes refined sugar), animal fats, caffeine, alcohol, junk foods can all exacerbate symptoms of IBD.

What always strikes me funny though, is when people say they are flaring but don't get why...then they mention that they do eat processed foods, can't live without their caffeine (coffee, sodas) and practically live on gatoraid but never make a connection to the harmful effects this junk is having on not just their IBD but their overall health...

It's already well known that IBDers are prone to osteo problems, drinking pop, gatoraid and regularly eating sugary foods is not helping the bone and joint and skin issues, not to mention the "tireds" as if everyone doesn't know the effects of refined sugar in their system, it gives you a false high, burst of energy then it sucks the energy right out of you...troubles sleeping, the caffeine maybe, the high sugar diet...that's why eating processed foods is a no no, it's chalk full of preservatives, MSGs and sugar.

There's a ton of research out there indicating that IBDers tend to have the highest of a junky diet compared to an average person.

:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)


praying4healing
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 739
   Posted 1/10/2008 6:46 PM (GMT -7)   
Wow... I don't think this thread should b deleted. It may b b/c I'm a natural born debator, but I like being able to read OPINIONS from both sides (which is what they are, opinions, and we're all entitled to our own), as I have been very curious about these diet claims. I just don't know how someone like myself would be able to stick to it. I'm not the greatest cook,its rare that I can "tolerate" anything other than pasta and white bread, nuts and berries make me sick,and I hear it is very expensive. That may sound trivial to some of you, but in my life these are real concerns.
N e who....I enjoy reading these threads as theyr pretty informative on both sides
25 y/o female- crohns disease since 14
Ileostomy pending-very worried
Tried asacol,pentasa,prednisone,remicade,6mp,azasan, no avail
Seatons placed
Worst year ever!

"For God has not given us the spirit of fear....."
Where does mine come from?!


EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 1/10/2008 7:31 PM (GMT -7)   
praying4healing said...
Wow... I don't think this thread should b deleted. It may b b/c I'm a natural born debator, but I like being able to read OPINIONS from both sides (which is what they are, opinions, and we're all entitled to our own), as I have been very curious about these diet claims. I just don't know how someone like myself would be able to stick to it. I'm not the greatest cook,its rare that I can "tolerate" anything other than pasta and white bread...


Yeah, I'm with you praying4. I like reading the opinions, too. So I'm jumping in...:-)

Give the diet a try!

And I have to disagree with chas036 on one point; I don't think the diet is all THAT restrictive--whether you're talking the SCD (from "Breaking the Vicious Cycle"), or The Maker's Diet. (jmho) It's just a DIFFERENT diet from the way most people in developed countries eat nowadays. And YES! You could stick to it! Just imagine...If you try it and begin having great success, you'll be really really motivated to continue!

As for the cost...maybe it is a bit more expensive; I haven't stopped to figure that out yet. But we rarely eat out anymore, so I'm saving money in that respect. And I'm with you on not being the greatest cook. I don't enjoy cooking, so it is WORK for me. I've had to force myself to try to enjoy it, but my son's health hangs in the balance and he's worth it! He has the fortitude to refuse processed foods, junk foods, etc., when he's out with friends, so the least I can do is learn a new way to cook to help him further. You are worth it, too!

So that's my 2 cents worth. No, I don't agree with the original post in most respects, but I do believe diet can help once diagnosed.
EMom
Mother to 15 year old boy diagnosed in June, 2007.
Currently taking Asacol, omega 3s, digestive enzymes, probiotics, iron, vit. C, calcium w/D3 and a good multivitamin.
Started The Maker's Diet in early September.


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 1/10/2008 7:32 PM (GMT -7)   
Ironic isn't it...eating healthy (whole natural foods as opposed to processed garbage) is more expensive, but in the same hand, possibly eating healthy is cheaper in the long run when you consider how expensive many meds like asacol and such are. you could say, that many who are sick with IBD cannot afford to eat healthy if they want to be able to afford their meds, yet eating healthy was too expensive in the first place.

To be honest, where I live, everything is expensive...but I'll tell you a bag of apples is cheaper than a bag of chips...not by alot but it's still cheaper and the apples are hands down healthy compared to the chips.

:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 1/10/2008 7:41 PM (GMT -7)   
Another thing to consider...what does happen when ingesting inflammatory foods/beverages when one suffers with inflammatory diseases...sugar is even a suspected culprit in arthritis and other inflammatory diseases, which it does seem there are too many. Ah, the western world diet, changes our taste buds and it doesn't end there unfortunately.

:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)


tsitodawg
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2006
Total Posts : 845
   Posted 1/11/2008 1:09 AM (GMT -7)   

Sorry if this may come across as being negative, but I am with the earlier post about everyone trying to come up with a magic bullet for this disease.  Part of living with this chronic illness, is coming to a complete understanding that this is a lifelong situation.  When you come to this realization, you will be better able to fight this condition and fight through the many trials that come with it.  When I was first diagnosed, everyone seemed to know someone with crohn's that was going the natural route of diet and exercise, but was completely living a normal life.  I began to question my own situation, because even though I was on the max dose of Remicade every 4 weeks and 6-mp, I could still not go back to work.  I was a workaholic before I was diagnosed, and it was very hard for me to let myself go on long term disablility at such a young age.  Many people also began to judge me because of the stories that they had heard about others with Crohn's disease that live without the medication.  Needless to say, many of these people that were living by diet alone, soo became very ill and most needed hospitalization.  Of course, you never hear the follow up story about how they really hurt themselves by not using any medications.

I have come to the conclusion that eating health is a great thing that we should all be doing, but this will not maintain remission forever.  One of the earlier posts about a members wife that is now in remission after going on this diet is great, but she has only been diagnosed since September and went into remission after surgery.  If you have done any research on Crohn's, then you will realize that most people will go into remission for a time after a resection.  In my own opinion, her remission is probably due to the healing of her surgery and not attributed solely to her diet.  From my own personal experience, I have found that there are times that I go months feeling pretty good and then without any warning or apparent cause, go into a major flare.  I would wait for longer that a few months before declaring victory.

Also, I have been a member of this site for quite a while and really enjoy reading about others experiences and opinions.  Lately though, I have noticed that there have been quite a few posts that have been advertising diets, products and books.  As we all know this is against the rules, but those doing it seem to be doing it in round about way.  There have been some posts that I question if the poster really even has this disease or if it is a spam artist trying to market their product among us Chronies. I am a Sales and Marketing major, and this is common practice for marketing products over the internet.  I appreciate everything that our Moderators do, but urge them to be viligent in watching out for the practice of dirty advertising.  Whenever I get the feeling that this might be happening, I click on the persons name to see if this person has had other post that contained links to product or book websites.  Most of the time, the person had been warned about breaking the rules.  If it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it is probably not an ostrich.  Sorry to be so long, but it just really drives me crazy because these people know that many of us are so desperate for relief or answers that we will try anything.  They are truly counting on us being so vulnerable that we will click on their link and buy their product.


hspenser
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 544
   Posted 1/11/2008 6:23 AM (GMT -7)   
pb4 said...
Ironic isn't it...eating healthy (whole natural foods as opposed to processed garbage) is more expensive, but in the same hand, possibly eating healthy is cheaper in the long run when you consider how expensive many meds like asacol and such are. you could say, that many who are sick with IBD cannot afford to eat healthy if they want to be able to afford their meds, yet eating healthy was too expensive in the first place.

To be honest, where I live, everything is expensive...but I'll tell you a bag of apples is cheaper than a bag of chips...not by alot but it's still cheaper and the apples are hands down healthy compared to the chips.

:)

Only in a major developed country could we be fooled as a nation into allowing processed foods to take the place of natural foods and then pay more for the foods that aren't further processed..just doesn't make sense.  In other "less advanced" countries the food used and provide "in country" is almost all natural and have very little in the way of pesticides or insecticides on them (the farmers can't afford it)...and the food is very inexpensive.....sure am glad we are such an advanced people. 
 
Just as a side note.....the food grown in places like Africa or Central America that are grown on big commercial farms rarely if ever are distributed or made available to the locals...it is almost all shipped to the US and Europe....and it is grown with the use of hormones, pesticides and insecticides....
dx IBS 1999   UC 2000   CD 2001
Tested BIOGEN TYSABRI (gave me 2 years of remission)
currently on Low Dose Netroxene (started Jan. 19, 2007)...against Dr's wishes, he was pushing for Remicade.  Stopped the Naltrexone July 28th...started Humira Aug 31st, 2007...current dose two shots every other week.
Crohns is currently active and has been since April of 2005
51 yrs old


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 1/11/2008 9:07 AM (GMT -7)   
tsitodawg :)

Not every situation is the same...not every IBDer is able to take RX, I'm one of them, I'm either allergic or non-responsive to traditional RX used for IBD, the only RX I can use with success is cortifoam (rectal meds) when CD is affecting my rectom (proctitis)...I changed my diet (common sence diet, not the SCD or others that are out there that are really restrictive but I will say my diet is probably close to those types of diets) and I started using natural products before I changed my way of eating, that alone helped me huge and almost 5 yrs later is still helping me (along with my common sence diet and regular exercise)...true I'm not in full remission, never have been in my entire 16 yrs of having this DD, but I do have some complications with my perianal crohns skin tags so I was warned from the beginning that a full remission for me was less then likely. But I will gladly take the average of 5 BM's/day that I've been having for the last few yrs over the 30+ BM's/day that I was having for many yrs...also, no more bleeding, mucus or D....my 2 only issues I have to date is not having total bowel control (when I have to go I have to go) and frequency, normal for me (before getting sick) was once a day, it averages around 5/day. I'd say that's pretty good considering where I was with eating a crappy diet and not taking anything at all (the natural things I take are all natural anti-inflammatories along with a probiotic and stool bulker).
 
 
:)


My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 1/11/2008 9:11 AM (GMT -7)   
hspenser :)

In france they are known for their eating habits, very little food on their plates, for the most part extreamly healthy diet with deserts of course but everything is such small amounts, they eat small meals but a little more frequently which is the easiest on the digestive system (common sence)...there's also the Mediteranian diet, you should google that if you're unaware of it, it's also a completely healthful diet.

:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)


njmom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1884
   Posted 1/11/2008 12:45 PM (GMT -7)   
hi dawg, i guess i'm lucky...i've never had anybody tell me they know somebody who beat Crohn's with diet. how annoying it must be to hear that...like it's so easy.
 
i believe diet is worth a try but like you, noticed that many posters who use diet are also using meds. so what's working, the diet or the meds? or both?
 
nobody knows. and nobody gave my daughter the chance to explore trying diet before trying meds. we had to discover SCD on our own...probably thanks to healing well we discovered it.
 
i wish we had known about SCD before corticosteroids were shoved down her throat. this forum at least gives people a chance to learn about stuff so they can test the waters and decide for themselves.
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