I have Salmonella!

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gumby44
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   Posted 1/24/2008 5:20 PM (GMT -7)   
I have been ranting on this forum about my out of control Crohn's flare for the past month with severe D and cramps with absolutely no help from high doses of Prednisone. I even drove 4 hours away from home to University of Michigan for a second opinion because I was so desparate. Well my local GI just called and said that I grew out Salmonella, (food poisoning) Most healthy people will recover on their own, but my high steroids apparently made everything worse. I was taking Flagyl which seemed to help somewhat, but now I will start Cipro, which should clear it up. U of M tested my stool, but only for C. difficile...I don't know why they didn't test for everything. I have spent the last month miserable and have lost 15 pounds. So the moral of my story is ask for stool cultures when you get a flare....don't just assume it's your Crohn's. Maybe now I can go back into remission, where I was before all this started.....let's hope so!
49 yr. old female, diagnosed with Crohn's in small intestine and terminal ileum Sept-Oct. 2007
currently taking Pentasa 2750 mg- 9pills/day and on and off Prednisone for flares


Sarita
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   Posted 1/24/2008 7:00 PM (GMT -7)   
Holy cow girlfriend, NO WONDER you feel so terrible! I can't believe you haven't been literally a puddle on the ground! I think the Flagyl might have kept you out of the hospital, honestly...but goodness gracious you probably really needed a hospital stay. When you have some "weird chronic GI thing," they don't even think about testing for the more common bugs if you get really ill, and that is not good practice. I am so sorry that you had to wait so long to find out! And that you lost 15 pounds. That is unbelievable. The Cipro should take care of it, but you should also commence a course of probiotics...seriously...have you taken them before? I'm quite partial to the VSL#3 myself.

Stool cultures take a while because you have to plate the stool, then wait for it to grow stuff, then pick out weird-looking colonies, then grow those, then re-plate 'em again. It takes days and days, and a diligent microbiologist. Do you know anyone else who picked up a stomach bug recently? It should be reported to your state health department. Salmonella is a real biznatch and can kill people.

Hang in there, sweetcakes...take it easy for a few days! Yeah, yeah, easier said than done...
Co-moderator - IBS Forum


broomhilda
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1488
   Posted 1/24/2008 8:28 PM (GMT -7)   
Every Crohn's patient's nightmare! Glad you got a dx and hope your on the road to remission!
Dx'd Jan'06, 1st Resection 7/06, Predinsone, Humira, Imuran, B12 injections, Nexium. Secondary conditions: Psorasis, Acne, Fatigue, Joint Pain, Lactose Intolerant, gallstones, fibroid cysts, peri-menopausal.


gumby44
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Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 4095
   Posted 1/24/2008 8:52 PM (GMT -7)   
Sarita, my GI said not to take the probiotics until at least after the Cipro...what do you think about that? My hubby has been complaining of "sympathy pains," this past month....he does not have any Crohn's but just more loose stool....now I think he may have had Salmonella too! I think it all started before Christmas when we went to a Mexican restaurant, but I guess it could have been anything.
49 yr. old female, diagnosed with Crohn's in small intestine and terminal ileum Sept-Oct. 2007
currently taking Pentasa 2750 mg- 9pills/day and on and off Prednisone for flares


broomhilda
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   Posted 1/24/2008 9:21 PM (GMT -7)   
Okay Gumby...I know you didn't ask me but I'm jumpin' in here! If the GI doesn't want you taking the probiotics until after the Cipro...all I have to say is good luck with that! I take my probiotics relgiously every day without fail and actually increase them when I am on antibiotics. You can have a flare up to 10 weeks after finishing a course of antibiotics! I didn't realize this until it happened to me! The Cipro will kill off all bacteria good & bad so maybe the GI feels it's a was of money while on the Cipro. As for me, when the flair hit in the middle of my antibiotics and I started taking my probiotics again, I improved dramatically within a couple of days. When in a flair I can't tolerate even the yogurt so the probiotics are my bacteria of choice.
Dx'd Jan'06, 1st Resection 7/06, Predinsone, Humira, Imuran, B12 injections, Nexium. Secondary conditions: Psorasis, Acne, Fatigue, Joint Pain, Lactose Intolerant, gallstones, fibroid cysts, peri-menopausal.


gumby44
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Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 4095
   Posted 1/24/2008 9:33 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks, Broomhilda. I don't think my doc really believes in probiotics, but I was taking them prior to getting sick on my own. I know docs don't know everything, but I've been soo sick this past month, that I kind of feel like just letting my doc figure this one out and do what he says. You don't think there is any way I could have gotten the Salmonella bacteria from the Probiotics, do you? This whole "good bacteria vs. bad bacteria" has me pretty confused!
49 yr. old female, diagnosed with Crohn's in small intestine and terminal ileum Sept-Oct. 2007
currently taking Pentasa 2750 mg- 9pills/day and on and off Prednisone for flares


broomhilda
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1488
   Posted 1/24/2008 9:37 PM (GMT -7)   
No, I think the mexican would be a fair guess. Couple the mexican with the holiday stress and the salmonella and you were a sitting duck! What brand of probiotics are you taking and how many a day are you taking?
Dx'd Jan'06, 1st Resection 7/06, Predinsone, Humira, Imuran, B12 injections, Nexium. Secondary conditions: Psorasis, Acne, Fatigue, Joint Pain, Lactose Intolerant, gallstones, fibroid cysts, peri-menopausal.


gumby44
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Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 4095
   Posted 1/24/2008 9:52 PM (GMT -7)   
I was taking "Ultimate Flora - 50 billion" by Renew Life. Someone at the health food store recommended it. How do I find VSL #3? Do I order it off the internet? I still don't know if I'm going to do it until I see my GI next week for my appointment, but any info and advice you have is greatly appreciated!
49 yr. old female, diagnosed with Crohn's in small intestine and terminal ileum Sept-Oct. 2007
currently taking Pentasa 2750 mg- 9pills/day and on and off Prednisone for flares


Sarita
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Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 2486
   Posted 1/25/2008 6:25 AM (GMT -7)   
Show your doc the following abstracts (I used PubMed and he can too; he should keep up on his research):

Probiotic lactobacilli and VSL#3 induce enterocyte beta-defensin 2.

Schlee M, Harder J, Köten B, Stange EF, Wehkamp J, Fellermann K.

Dr Margarete Fischer-Bosch-Institute of Clinical Pharmacology and University of Tübingen, Stuttgart, Germany.

Recent evidence suggests that probiotic bacteria may stabilize gut barrier function via induction of anti-microbial peptides such as defensins. This study aimed to elucidate the induction mechanism of the human beta defensin-2 (hBD-2) gene by different probiotic lactobacillus strains. The expression of hBD-2 mRNA peaked at 6 h of incubation upon treatment of Caco-2 cells and increased with higher dosage of various probiotic bacteria. Deletion of nuclear factor (NF)-kappaB and activator protein-1 (AP-1) binding sites on the hBD-2 promoter resulted in a complete abrogation of promoter activation by probiotics. As revealed by the use of specific mitogen-activated protein kinase (MAPK) inhibitors the hBD-2 induction was dependent on the MAPK extracellular regulated kinase (ERK 1/2), p38 and c-Jun N-terminal kinase (JNK), although to varying degrees. Several Lactobacillus strains and VSL#3, a probiotic cocktail of four lactobacilli, three bifidum and one streptococcus species, induced the secretion of the hBD-2 peptide into the culture media as shown by enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA). Thus, the present study suggests that lactobacilli and the VSL#3 bacterial mixture strengthen intestinal barrier functions through the up-regulation of hBD-2 via induction of proinflammatory pathways including NF-kappaB and AP-1 as well as MAPKs.

and

Fujimori S, Tatsuguchi A, Gudis K, Kishida T, Mitsui K, Ehara A, Kobayashi T, Sekita Y, Seo T, Sakamoto C.

Third Department of Internal Medicine, Nippon Medical School, Tokyo, Japan. s-fugimori@nms.ac.jp

BACKGROUND: Clinical trials of probiotic treatment for Crohn's disease (CD) have yielded conflicting results. This study assessed the clinical usefulness of combined probiotic and prebiotic therapy in the treatment of active CD. METHOD: Ten active CD outpatients without history of operation for CD were enrolled. Their mean (+/-SD) age was 27 +/- 7 years and the main symptoms presented were diarrhea and abdominal pain. Patients' initial therapeutic regimen of aminosalicylates and prednisolone failed to achieve remission. Patients were thus initiated on a synbiotic therapy, consisting of both probiotics (75 billion colony forming units [CFU] daily) and prebiotics (psyllium 9.9 g daily). Probiotics mainly comprised Bifidobacterium and Lactobacillus. Patients were free to adjust their intake of probiotics or prebiotics throughout the trial. Crohn's disease activity index (CDAI), International Organization for the Study of Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IOIBD) score and blood sample variables were evaluated and compared before and after the trial. RESULTS: The duration of the trial was 13.0 +/- 4.5 months. By the end of therapy, each patient had taken a 45 +/- 24 billion CFU daily probiotic dose, with six patients taking an additional 7.9 +/- 3.6 g daily psyllium dose. Seven patients had improved clinical symptoms following combined probiotic and prebiotic therapy. Both CDAI and IOIBD scores were significantly reduced after therapy (255-136, P = 0.009; 3.5-2.1, P = 0.03, respectively). Six patients had a complete response, one had a partial response, and three were non-responders. Two patients were able to discontinue their prednisolone therapy, while four patients decreased their intake. There were no adverse events. CONCLUSION: High-dose probiotic and prebiotic cotherapy can be safely and effectively used for the treatment of active CD.
Co-moderator - IBS Forum


Sarita
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Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 2486
   Posted 1/25/2008 6:28 AM (GMT -7)   
P.S. What these articles really mean is that there is a good chance that probiotic strains can help induce and maintain remission in patients with Crohn's disease. I would also agree with other members that I take probiotics throughout the course of an antibiotic. But run it by your doc; you've been so sick that I can totally relate to just letting him make every decision! He didn't go to medical school for nothing (that's for darn sure).
Co-moderator - IBS Forum


broomhilda
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1488
   Posted 1/25/2008 6:43 AM (GMT -7)   
Good response Sarita!
Dx'd Jan'06, 1st Resection 7/06, Predinsone, Humira, Imuran, B12 injections, Nexium. Secondary conditions: Psorasis, Acne, Fatigue, Joint Pain, Lactose Intolerant, gallstones, fibroid cysts, peri-menopausal.


gumby44
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Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 4095
   Posted 1/25/2008 11:21 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks Sarita and Broomhilda,
I will talk with my doc. How do I get VSL#3 probiotics?
49 yr. old female, diagnosed with Crohn's in small intestine and terminal ileum Sept-Oct. 2007
currently taking Pentasa 2750 mg- 9pills/day and on and off Prednisone for flares


stkitt
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Apr 2007
Total Posts : 32602
   Posted 1/25/2008 11:30 AM (GMT -7)   

Glad to hear you fianlly have a diagnosis and you are now on the road to feeling better.  Holy macaroni, Batman....Salmonella!
Gentle Hugs to you.


 
Kitt, Co-Moderator: Anxiety ~ Panic  ~ Crohn's
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wednesday77
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 390
   Posted 9/1/2015 11:52 AM (GMT -7)   
I know this is an old thread but my dr. called me yesterday and told me I had Salmonella poisoning - I have to take Cipro and Flagyl, which is just going to tear my stomach apart. I don't even know how I could have come in contract with Salmonella, I'm vegan and so don't eat chicken or eggs or dairy - how else can this happen? I'm so nervous it's going to throw me into a flare. :( Can I still take my probiotics? I know the stress of worrying isn't helping but I don't know what to do.
Crohn's Colitis
36 year old female
DX 2006
Currently on Humira, Klonopin for anxiety, multivitamins, Tylenol w Codeine for pain, extra Vit D and calcium, magnesium, recently started taking B12 shots
In the past have taken 6mp, Prednisone and Remicaide

gumby44
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Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 4095
   Posted 9/1/2015 12:48 PM (GMT -7)   
Wow...2008! Back when I was young (er) and innocent and knew almost nothing about Crohn's....it seems forever ago!! My theory is that when we are in a flare with Crohn's our bacterial balance is so messed up that it is easy for us to get overgrowth. I have had the Salmonella, and c.difficile three different times. With the Salmonella, I didn't get typical food poisoning symptoms like vomiting and sudden illness so it took forever to get a diagnosis and I was very sick. Take Florastor probiotics along with your antibiotics and hopefully you will feel better soon. Florastor is yeast based so you don't have to time them opposite the antibiotics. I take them twice a day when in a flare or on antibiotics and I think it helps. Hope you feel better soon!
56 yr. old female, diagnosed with Crohn's in terminal ileum Sept-Oct. 2007. Dx. with c.difficile 1/12, and again 10/14.

5/20/14: Ileo-colic resection surgery after stricturing and partial bowel obstruction.

Rose*flo
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2015
Total Posts : 306
   Posted 9/1/2015 1:09 PM (GMT -7)   
Unfortunately you can get salmonella from pretty much anything that has come in contact with it. Your veggies may have not been washed properly. Or the salad you ate at a restaurant was contaminated etc... They even say the triple washed boxed salads still need to be washed again!
34 yrs old. Diagnosed '05
Gigantic rectal abscess surgery
Failed Fistula flap/plug
Permanent Seton
Many drug allergies and sensitivities (allergic Remicade)
Feeling healthy for 8 years with no meds
current flare with disease in Ilium and entire colon.
Current Prednisone 40mg, Entocort, Florastor
Still no symptoms besides rectal pain.
~mom to awesome 13 year old son that needs me healthy

scifigal2k
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2012
Total Posts : 2632
   Posted 9/1/2015 3:11 PM (GMT -7)   
Salmonella can also be contagious as well. When I got it, it was because one of my students had gotten it, come to school without washing hands well, and then turned in a paper that I graded while eating lunch. You can get it from reptiles and birds also.
CD, gastroparesis, fibro, arthritis, GERD

Remicade

"For this thing I besought the Lord thrice that it depart from me. He said, My grace is sufficient for thee: for my strength is made perfect in weakness. Most gladly therefore will I rather glory in my infirmities; I take pleasure in infirmities, reproaches, necessities, persecutions, distresses, for when I am weak, then am I strong." 2 Cor 12

gumby44
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2007
Total Posts : 4095
   Posted 9/1/2015 3:50 PM (GMT -7)   
Yeah, but my theory is that healthy people get a little exposure to salmonella and might get D for a day, but us Crohnnies get into big trouble with the same exposure.
56 yr. old female, diagnosed with Crohn's in terminal ileum Sept-Oct. 2007. Dx. with c.difficile 1/12, and again 10/14.

5/20/14: Ileo-colic resection surgery after stricturing and partial bowel obstruction.

Rose*flo
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2015
Total Posts : 306
   Posted 9/1/2015 4:51 PM (GMT -7)   
Definitely agree. I have eaten the same exact meals as my healthy family and been the only one to get sick. It affects people with a "weakened system" much more
34 yrs old. Diagnosed '05
Gigantic rectal abscess surgery
Failed Fistula flap/plug
Permanent Seton
Many drug allergies and sensitivities (allergic Remicade)
Feeling healthy for 8 years with no meds
current flare with disease in Ilium and entire colon.
Current Prednisone 40mg, Entocort, Florastor
Still no symptoms besides rectal pain.
~mom to awesome 13 year old son that needs me healthy

Jen77
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2687
   Posted 9/2/2015 1:23 PM (GMT -7)   
This is why I've gotten to be a bit of a hypochondriac about eating raw veggies and fruits. I love salads, but even after washing them at home I know it doesn't always get everything off of them. Food poisoning usually gets me hospitalized with dehydration (I usually will throw up until I dry heave). Now with all the Crohn's medications and the weakened immune system I worry about eating things even more.

I guess I should whine a lot less about those stool tests when I start to flare. Never know what they will find instead of a flare up.
~Jennifer

Diagnosed with Crohn's Disease in 2006, but suffering since 1997.
Currently taking:
Methotrexate 25mg
Remicade
Questran
Prednisone (tapered to 2.5 mg)
Failed: Humira, Imuran (caused pancreatitis), Cimzia
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