positive ASCA antibody... mom with crohns... i need to be evaluated

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medicalenigma
New Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 5/3/2008 2:34 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi everyone!
 
I am new to this forum, though I've been on and off healingwell for other chronic health issues.  I don't have the energy for an intro right now but will write one at a later point in time.  I have a question and concern...
 
I have a mother and 2 uncles with crohns disease (one had ulcerative colitis).  For the past few months, I've been suffering with very bad intestional symptoms... chronic nauseau, diarrhea (had several accidents, as embarrassing as this is to admit at the age of 35), stomach pain (spasmy pain low down, combined with a constant dull ache.  Due to other chronic health issues, my drs have always attributed it to that and didn't pay much attention to my stomach issues.  Well, the past month, they have worsened significantly, to the point where they are disabling.... especially the chronic nauseau and unpredictable stomach pain and diarrhea (i am afraid to eat anything and food has become my enemy!) 
 
Well, I finally got myself to a GI (which I had been putting off to deal with other issues and also because I am petrified of stomach issues and drs seeing what my mom has gone through with this disease.)  Anyway... I have a colonscopy and endoscopy coming up, but she did some preliminary blood testing and my ASCA antibodies were positive and relatively high, which she said , coupled with my symptoms, raises her suspicions about possible Crohns.  I am petrified and usually... i want drs to find something because my other chronic health issue is often illigitimized and not taken seriously (chronic lyme disease), however, this time, I am praying they say it's only irritable bowel... even though that's not too legitimized either, the thought of this getting worse and having surgery and all the other things that go along with this disease is making me petrified.  (I commend all of you who deal with this with such courage!!)
 
My question is.....  can you have ASCA antibodies positive and highly elevated due to having an immediate family member with crohns?  Also, if I wasn't having any GI symptoms, I wouldn;'t be so worried.  They are also considering a possible diagnosis of gastroparesis, or both.. who knows... if anyone has any info on antibody testing and how specific it is... i'd really appreciate it.
 
Thanks so much!

ivy6
Elite Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 10404
   Posted 5/3/2008 3:50 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi enigma, and welcome to Healingwell,

I don't know much about gastroparesis or asca antibodies and I'm concerned that nobody else here seems to either - or else they would have answered your post - so I've asked the mods from the other forums for advice, and I hope that someone will be able to answer your questions soon.

Best wishes to you,

Ivy.
Co-Moderator Crohn's Forum.


Sherrine
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 17101
   Posted 5/3/2008 4:01 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi!  I am in the fibromyalgia forum.  We have a thread called Gastroparesis III there.  I just bumped it up for you.  We have several in fibromyalgia that have gastroparesis so you may get your questions answered there.  Hope this helps!
 
Sherrine
Forum Moderator/ Fibromyalgia
***********************
Fibromyalgia, Crohn's Disease, Ostomy, Diabetes, Autoimmune Inner Ear Disease, Osteoporosis
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
God does not give us a spirit of fear, but of power and of love and of a sound mind.    2 Timothy 1:7


ivy6
Elite Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 10404
   Posted 5/3/2008 4:04 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks, Sherrine :-)
Co-Moderator Crohn's Forum.


medicalenigma
New Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 5/3/2008 4:08 PM (GMT -7)   
thanks!
 
ASCA are antibodies specific to crohns disease... my gastro is with mayo clinic so maybe they have cutting edge stuff that is not being done elsewhere??
 
 

Ides
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2003
Total Posts : 7077
   Posted 5/3/2008 4:21 PM (GMT -7)   
ASCA antibodies are a body's response to an outside trigger. It could be a bacteria, virus, or environmental issue. Researchers have not yet determined what is causing this response.

To my knowledge you do not inherit these antibodies. If a person has ASCA antibodies present in levels over the "standard" range of the company doing the assay, then it is highly indictative the person has CD. A person that does not have ASCA antibodies can still have CD though. ASCA antibodies are seen most often in people with CD of the ileum and right colon.
Moderator Crohn's Disease Forum
CD, Ankylosing Spondylitis, small fiber peripheral neuropathy, avascular necrosis, diffuse connective tissue disease, Sjogren's Syndrome ?
 


jan2003
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2004
Total Posts : 92
   Posted 5/3/2008 4:49 PM (GMT -7)   

I love google.com. I found these two abstracts, (which you can read in their entirety):

http://gut.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/54/9/1232       "Familial clustering of these antibodies has been described, suggesting they might be genetic markers. Our aim was to investigate the presence of these antibodies before the emergence of overt clinical manifestations".....(you can read the entire abstract)..."Conclusions: ASCA and pANCA may predict development of inflammatory bowel disease years before the disease is clinically diagnosed."

https://lirias.kuleuven.be/handle/123456789/8440     "CONCLUSION: ASCA is strongly associated with familial CD in Belgium, and 21% of healthy family members also display the marker. The association is much weaker in patients belonging to mixed families. ASCA is a stable marker and is not a secondary phenomenon due to increased intestinal permeability."

Your question: "My question is.....  can you have ASCA antibodies positive and highly elevated due to having an immediate family member with crohns? "
 
I would say, yes, you can. But I hope you don't stress out about it until you have further testing: colonscopy and endoscopy. For most IBDers, the disease is manageable. I wish you well.
 
Good luck!
Jan

medicalenigma
New Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 5/3/2008 4:50 PM (GMT -7)   

thanks Ides!

I thought my dr mentioned it could be positive because of my mom having it but maybe she didn't.  Geez... i am worried. Sounds like there is a big chance I have CD.  ;( 


Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4392
   Posted 5/4/2008 5:32 AM (GMT -7)   
Medicalenigma,

Lyme can mimic Crohn's, down to the ulcers, bleeding, diarrhea, etc. Are you getting treated for Lyme? If so, this could be a herx reaction. Have you been tested for coinfections too? Lyme & coinfections destroy the immune system, and many people with inherited immundeficiencies have Crohn's-like inflammation in their gut because of their impaired immune system. Lyme also can paralyze the nerves that go to the gut, causing Gastroparesis and other dysmotility issues. Check out the following:

"Bell's Palsy of the Gut" and Other GI Manifestations of Lyme and Associated Diseases (by V. T. Sherr, MD)
http://thehumansideoflyme.net/printarticle.php?aid=62&lp=

What does Lyme Disease has to do with Digestion?
http://www.revolutionhealth.com/blogs/trentnicholsmd/what-does-lyme-diseas-4297

The ABC's of Lyme Disease, page 2, "Gastrointestinal Lyme"
http://www.lymediseaseassociation.org/ABCsLYME.pdf

Crohn's, Colitis, and Lyme Disease
http://www.canlyme.com/crohn's.html

And a book I recently finished reading, called "The Homeopathic Treatment of Lyme Disease" (by Peter Alex, Edited by Doug Smith), also says that Lyme Disease can mimic Crohn's Disease.

Known Gastrointestinal symptoms of Lyme Disease include swallowing difficulties, gastroparesis, constipation, diarrhea, blood in stool, heartburn, acid reflux/GERD, ulcers, abdominal pain, loss of appatite or always feeling hungry, weight loss or weight gain, etc. Lyme also causes a lot of other symptoms, including joint pain & inflammation, fatigue, low-grade fevers, etc., that can make it hard to distinguish from IBD.

And I personally believe the IBD Serology can be influenced by cross-reactivity between what the test was designed to detect and other organisms. Since Lyme (and co-infections) can change the proteins on their outer membrane surface, that means that they MIGHT be able to induce antibody formation that cross-reacts with other organisms. Also, ASCA are antibodies to yeast. Many of the treatments for lyme can lead to yeast overgrowth, which may induce antibody formation against yeast. I do not know if ASCA antibodies can cross-react with other yeasts, but I do think it is a possibility.

I myself have Lyme (and possible co-infections), gut inflammation, gastroparesis & other gut dysmotilities, etc., and my Lyme doctor says he does not think I have Crohn's, but rather Lyme-related gut problems.

I hope this helps...take care,
-Razzle
Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD (Lupus?), Osteoporosis, Anemia, T- & B-Cell Lymphopenia, malabsorption/malnutrition, Lyme Disease (Igenex Lab IgM WesternBlot positive/CDC negative), etc.
Meds:  Pulmicort, Injectable Vitamin B12, Herbs, Nutritional Supplements, Homeopathy.


medicalenigma
New Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 5/4/2008 11:56 AM (GMT -7)   
razzle
 
Thanks for that great info.. yes i've had lyme and coinfections (bartonella) for many years so i know it causes major stomach issues and have been wondering the same thing....if it IS the lyme, unfortunately, there is no treatment for my debilitating stomach issues since i don't respond to antibiotics well at all.  I did wonder if the antibodies can cross react but my dr who is one of the top said it was specific for CD and esp because i have such a strong family history, she wants to rule it out.
 
Thanks so much again
-Nancy
 
p.s.  i hope you are getting good care... sounds like you are and are very knowledgeable!!

Razzle
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 4392
   Posted 5/4/2008 2:56 PM (GMT -7)   
There are alternatives to antibiotics for Lyme. My doctor is treating me with homeopathic medicine and herbs for the Lyme, and may or may not get into antibiotics, depending on how things go (getting ready for some tests to check my progress). Check out the Lyme forum here at HealingWell - there are some great folks there who have a lot of knowledge (more than me ~ I've only recently been diagnosed so I'm still on the steep learning curve).

Sounds like you have a good doctor, glad she is trying to figure things out for you. Take care,
-Razzle
Gluten & Sulfite Sensitivity, Many Food/Inhalant/Medication Allergies & Intolerances, Asthma, Gut issues (dysmotility, non-specific inflammation), UCTD (Lupus?), Osteoporosis, Anemia, T- & B-Cell Lymphopenia, malabsorption/malnutrition, Lyme Disease (Igenex Lab IgM WesternBlot positive/CDC negative), etc.
Meds:  Pulmicort, Injectable Vitamin B12, Herbs, Nutritional Supplements, Homeopathy.


medicalenigma
New Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 9
   Posted 5/4/2008 3:20 PM (GMT -7)   
thanks razzle.. yep.. i've tried alternative but didn't help and couldn't afford.. i've been dx with lyme for about 6 yrs now but my cognitivr problems so bad i forgot all the knowledge i learned. 
 
 

sleepydad
New Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 2
   Posted 5/7/2009 12:59 PM (GMT -7)   
http://gut.bmj.com/cgi/content/abstract/42/6/788
hope this helps
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