we're expendable

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ivy6
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Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 10404
   Posted 5/24/2008 6:22 PM (GMT -7)   
I expected this and it makes sense, but it's still not nice to see it in print and official!

Docs list who would be allowed to die in a catastrophe
 
[*I just activated the URL link - C2]
 

Post Edited By Moderator (CrohnieToo) : 5/24/2008 7:26:48 PM (GMT-6)


Celey
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1284
   Posted 5/24/2008 7:11 PM (GMT -7)   
.... :(.... Man... How depressing....
I think I am being picked on by life, sometimes. But's that okay. Life and I are good buddies... I know life doesn't mean no harm. It just is the way it is. I can accept that.


Mac_Gyver
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 350
   Posted 5/24/2008 7:15 PM (GMT -7)   
well in the case of a disaster im heading straight for the nearest pharmacy to start looting :)
Symptoms Of Crohn's June of '06 (21 years old 285lbs). Colonoscopy in Jan '07 no sign of Crohn's.
Surgery for a Fistula in April '07, diagnosed suggestive Crohn's in May '07. August '07 small bowel follow
through, diagnosed with Crohn's (23 years old 180lbs). Off predisone and on tysabri 4/3/2008
============================================


Celey
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1284
   Posted 5/24/2008 7:20 PM (GMT -7)   
*LOL* Heh.... Well, hey... :).... Gotta do what we gotta do to live, hmm? Can't really say that's unethical... :)
I think I am being picked on by life, sometimes. But's that okay. Life and I are good buddies... I know life doesn't mean no harm. It just is the way it is. I can accept that.


inflamed
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2005
Total Posts : 1340
   Posted 5/24/2008 7:25 PM (GMT -7)   
I dunno, do we count as having a SEVERE chronic disease? Diabetes is a chronic disease, but they are only expendable if the disease is not controlled. I admit, when the story first came out, I assumed it would apply to us, but now I'm not sure. I guess in a disaster I will just not reveal that I have CD.
Currently in remission!


Celey
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Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1284
   Posted 5/24/2008 7:30 PM (GMT -7)   
Well... We count as having a chronic disease....


And the article said that 'diseases that are normally kept under control in clinical conditions' blah blah.....


And Crohn's can have serious complications..... It's really hard to say...


But yeah... There's another thing we can do... *lol* Though, that might be a bit dangerous...
I think I am being picked on by life, sometimes. But's that okay. Life and I are good buddies... I know life doesn't mean no harm. It just is the way it is. I can accept that.


Kal
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2008
Total Posts : 53
   Posted 5/24/2008 8:32 PM (GMT -7)   
This just screams "they have way too much time on their hands" to me. Or rather the ones making policies do. Making up a list... stirring the pot for controversy maybe?
Kal - 24yr female
Hiatal Hernia, Crohn's, Anxiety, Anemia,
Meds: 50mg Imuran, B12 Injection, Iron supplement, pantaloc (for hernia)

Prior Meds: 3mg Budesonide (aka Entocort)


jujub
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 10391
   Posted 5/24/2008 8:39 PM (GMT -7)   
I think what they're talking about is conditions severe enough to be life-threatening even without the flu. People in heart failure and unstable diabetics are mentioned; these are people who likely would not survive a severe flu pandemic even with aggressive treatment. Their systems are simply to marginal to survive an additional attack.

This is a pretty standard triage table, as used in most trauma centers. In the field, they refer to putting the patients who are going to survive whether or not they get treatment in one corner, the ones who won't survive even with treatment in another, and using the majority of the space and resources for those whose survival and recovery depend on medical intervention.
Judy
 
Moderate to severe left-sided UC (21 cm) diagnosed 2001.
Asacol, Rowasa, Pentasa, Prednisone, Entocort, Azathioprine
Avascular necrosis in both shoulders is my "forever" gift from steroid therapy.
Colazal,  Remicade, Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri. In remission since April, 2006.
 
Co-Moderator UC Forum
Please remember to consult your health care provider when making health-related decisions.


SydneyJo
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 1354
   Posted 5/24/2008 8:51 PM (GMT -7)   
Confirms what we already thought, but you are right Ivy, not nice to see in actual print.

pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 5/24/2008 10:52 PM (GMT -7)   
I don't know...the way they specify this

" Those with a severe chronic disease, such as advanced heart failure, lung disease or poorly controlled diabetes."

doesn't really have me thinking they're referring to IBD since they probably veiw most IBDers as having a fairly controllable disease and advanced heart failure, lung disease or poorly cortrolled diabetes pretty much says that to me right there...sure the IBDers that are on their last leg wold probably fall into their catagory as well but not the average (or what they would consider at least) IBDer.

This is just how I read it, maybe I'm wrong, but it seems they're referring to those who are more likely to die, diabetes and the above they mentioned are more "life threatening" in their veiw than crohns or IBD in general.

:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)


Celey
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1284
   Posted 5/24/2008 10:55 PM (GMT -7)   
True.... They really should make things more clear, I think.... Seems so vague....


I mean.... Severe chronic disease..... Cancer would probably be looped in that category... but they didn't mention cancer.... //@.@\\'.... Ehhhh.... Maybe if they actually had a link to the 'doctor's list'....
I think I am being picked on by life, sometimes. But's that okay. Life and I are good buddies... I know life doesn't mean no harm. It just is the way it is. I can accept that.


Jen77
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 2689
   Posted 5/24/2008 11:17 PM (GMT -7)   
How awful. Well then, I guess I'll have to go in saying I have the flu!
~Jennifer
 
Diagnosed with Crohn's Disease 2/06 after sever GI bleed. Has been suffering since 1998. History of rectal fistula and gallbladder removal. Currently taking Prednisone: tapered to 35 mg, Asacol, Questran, Toprol XL (for high blood pressure).


ivy6
Elite Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 10404
   Posted 5/24/2008 11:25 PM (GMT -7)   
Well, I just think of the people that use this forum. Many, if not most, of us are severely ill.

Kal, I wouldn't say that they had too much time on their hands. It seems like responsible policy to me, given the concerns about bird flu / terrorism / etc etc. If there's an official policy, individual doctors won't have to feel (so much) like murderers for refusing some people treatment.

Inflamed, you said that you would just not reveal that you had CD. Not sure if that would work - wouldn't they have access to your medical records? They would here in Australia...

I.
Co-Moderator Crohn's Forum.


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 5/24/2008 11:47 PM (GMT -7)   
I know that but you have to look at it from the medical stand point, they're the ones that take in all the data and that's what they base things on. Don't mis-intepret my post, as I stated, "they probably veiw most IBDers as having a fairly controllable disease"....ask just about any doc and most will likely say that the majority of IBDers have their disease more controlled than not and that the minority are deathly ill from it, that's their perspective based on the data they collect.

You certainly can't go by one support group and compare it to the hundreds of thousands out there that have IBD that aren't posting here.

:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)


gachrons
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 4527
   Posted 5/25/2008 6:01 AM (GMT -7)   
My opinion on this is it is the people with pre existing heath issues that need the extra care as the healthier people are more likely to survive. Not impressed to hear this article at all .It also seems to be a creul statement made on what if, I think people have enough to be concerned about. lol gail

petittarte
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 686
   Posted 5/25/2008 6:16 AM (GMT -7)   
I'm not going to die if I don't take my 6-mp and remicade but an insulin dependent diabetic will die without their meds.
Jodi

Remicade and 6MP


FitzyK23
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 4219
   Posted 5/25/2008 6:28 AM (GMT -7)   
I personally do not think we fall into this category. As others said, the majority of us will not die without our meds... at least not quickly. We will get sick, we will get miserable, but we probably won't die. And although Crohns is a serious illness it is not one that would prevent us from recovering from a trauma unless we were seriously immuno-supressed or steroid dependent. I think the biggest issue would be maintaining the supply of meds we need to stay healthy and for those on high doses of steroids that may be a life or death situation. So, for the majority I think this wouldn't apply but for some, it unfortunatly may.

dunny2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3200
   Posted 5/25/2008 6:59 AM (GMT -7)   
I think if the "bird flu" is as bad as they're saying. I think their list would go out of the window. According to a program I
watched, we would all be dropping like flies.,regardless of treatment. Those most at risk... Small children. I wonder how
expendable they are.....
Vicky

Too many years with CD
Two bowel resections, several obstructions.
Fibromyalgia and recently diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis

Laughter is the brush that sweeps the cobwebs from our hearts


jujub
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Mar 2003
Total Posts : 10391
   Posted 5/25/2008 7:03 AM (GMT -7)   
Pb4 is absolutely right. From a medical standpoint, IBD is not considered a severe chronic disease. Of course those of us who have it feel like it's severe, but compared to things like emphysema, where a person would literally suffocate and die without the treatments, IBD is in more of a "pain in the behind but not lethal" category.
Judy
 
Moderate to severe left-sided UC (21 cm) diagnosed 2001.
Asacol, Rowasa, Pentasa, Prednisone, Entocort, Azathioprine
Avascular necrosis in both shoulders is my "forever" gift from steroid therapy.
Colazal,  Remicade, Nature's Way Primadophilus Reuteri. In remission since April, 2006.
 
Co-Moderator UC Forum
Please remember to consult your health care provider when making health-related decisions.


Nanners
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 14995
   Posted 5/25/2008 7:05 AM (GMT -7)   
I think it really doesn't apply to the majority of us. I think it just shows more that you should get a flu shot yearly. If I am not mistaken didn't they say that this was if we had a severe flu outbreak. Sorry if I am incorrect, I did not reread the article, but read it about a month ago.
Been living with Crohn's Disease for 32 years.  Currently on Asacol, Prilosec 60 mg, Estrace, Prinivil, Diltiazem, Percoset prn for pain and Calcium.  Resections in 2002 and 2005.  Recently diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and doing tests to see if I have Inflammatory Arthritis or AS.


MMMNAVY
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6927
   Posted 5/25/2008 7:23 AM (GMT -7)   
I have seen one of these lists from the 1918 pandemic, Judilynn is right it is a standard triage list.
Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease
We will find a way, or make one.-Hannibal (crossing the Alps in the 15th Century on war elephants) 
All suggestions/options/opinions are caveated with please consult with your local health care provider...


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 5/25/2008 11:39 AM (GMT -7)   
I'm glad others see what I'm saying, and you're right, we won't necessarily die without taking our meds, heck I'm not even (nor have I really ever been considered) an oral RX taker because I'm either allergic or non-responsive to them and I'm still here...I've had flaring CD for 17 yrs straight and was only treatable to a small degree with pred until that stopped working which is when I went the natural route which thankfully has helped alot but still no full remission...with IBD our life expectancy isn't necessarily shortend, it just means a very good chance of living a fairly long life miserably...that's the cruelty of having IBD for those who are severe enough and don't respond to meds well. Nature of the beast.

And I do agree that this doctors list is cruel, even rude...but so is life.

:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it!  LOL  :)


CrohnieToo
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 9448
   Posted 5/25/2008 12:11 PM (GMT -7)   
I'd take a guess that this "pronouncement" was spurred to be made publicly as a response to the woman doctor who was virtually crucified due to her actions and response in the hospital in New Orleans during Katrina and as a CTA when a catastrophy occurs.

And keep in mind that military medics in the field must make these type of decisions all the time during battle. It "ain't" pretty, it "ain't" easy, I sure as heck wouldn't want to have to be making those kind of decisions. But I can see the necessity.

Our medical schools are not exactly being flooded by American students wanting to be doctors. We are depending more and more on "foreign" students in our medical schools, "foreign" doctors in our hospitals and practices. And, unfortunately, fewer and fewer of ALL medical students have ANY interest in "general practice". Most want to specialize due to the "return on investment".
 
Let's face it: in a major catastrophe such as Katrina, even the WTC, much less an earthquake such as in China, Myanmar, etc. we'd all better be prepared and ready to accept that we will have NO ONE to depend upon but ourselves for some time.


Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.

Post Edited (CrohnieToo) : 5/25/2008 1:14:17 PM (GMT-6)


Zanne
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 3763
   Posted 5/25/2008 1:34 PM (GMT -7)   
Well, my husband very nicely said I could have his dose, so I'm all set. He's healthy as a horse so He'll most likely survive the first nuclear blast, let alone the bird flu!
Suzanne

CD 19 years offically, 29 unofficially. 3 resections '93, '95 '97
Symptoms constantly but all tests show only minor ulcerations. Currently having multiple episodes of gastritis with no known cause.


Prednisone, 6MP,Prevacid, B12 shots, Bentyl, Xifaxan.....


aoccc
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2005
Total Posts : 455
   Posted 5/25/2008 3:25 PM (GMT -7)   
whoohoo! this better be a promise not a threat
SCD since 01, remission since 01, occasional Arby's breaks :)

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