CD and China and Africa seems they don't have it

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gachrons
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Date Joined Mar 2007
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   Posted 10/22/2008 9:06 AM (GMT -7)   
I sometimes go off and read for awhile but had found a article stating there is no CD in these countries. Was wandering what antibotics the chinese use and I do know that some Dr.s think banana's are responsible for some good effects in Africa as I have a book that tell how it thickens the stomach lining to help prevent ulcers from breaking threw. What are your thoughts ? lol gail
Hallarious woman over 50 ,CD ,IBS 27 years--resection,fistula's,obstructions,and still alive.lol gail


d2parrotperson
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Date Joined Aug 2008
Total Posts : 320
   Posted 10/22/2008 9:36 AM (GMT -7)   
Interesting. But it may in fact be that they just aren't able to get to a dr. Through my research I have found that Ashke**** Jewish men are the most likely to get CD. I think Europeans were 2nd, but don't quote me on that.
150mg Azathioprine, Lomotil, Iron, Nexium 2/day, Fentanyl patch, Oxycodone, Baclofin
Crohn's, Fibromyalgia, Several bulging discs, Bone spurs, Osteoarthritis, Osteopenia, Reflux, Stenosis, Strictures, Dengenerating facet joints
2 resections
 
Stephanie
When I am weak, then am I strong


Writer
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Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 443
   Posted 10/22/2008 9:45 AM (GMT -7)   
Inflammatory bowel disease exists in Africa and Asia, although possibly at lower rates than in the West.
 
See, for example, for China:
 
However, it is likely underdiagnosed in many developing countries because of the difficulty obtaining medical care, and due to confusion with endemic diseases. For instance, tuberculosis, which is widespread in Africa, can affect the intestines, and looks just like Crohn's endoscopically.

EricaM
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 184
   Posted 10/22/2008 10:31 AM (GMT -7)   

My doctors have done work on this and one recently spent several weeks in China so I hope I'm representing them correctly!  UC and Crohn's are diseases of developed nations.  Initially as a counrty becomes more developed, such as indoor plumbing, electricity, more sterile environments, there is high occurance of UC and low occurance of Crohn's but over time newly diagnosed Crohn's cases go up surpassing the number of newly diagnosed UC cases.  But there is no explanation for this occurance.  Right now China is experiencing UC cases for the most part but if this pattern continues Crohn's disease is right around the corner.  Giving me some time and I'll find some research to references this....I'm eating lunch right now.  If I remember correctly it is that perhaps we carry a gene and because our environment is so sterile we have wipeout good bacteria to help keep this disease in remission when triggered by an outside source the disease becomes active.

 

 


Erica
Crohn's and Ostomy in 2004


gachrons
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   Posted 10/22/2008 12:45 PM (GMT -7)   
I cain't find the link I went searching but I too wandered if it had
something to do with; if they are tested ,or if it is a DNA thing in China. As far as
the banana theory I have a book that discusses this so was surprised to
find it on the net. lol gail
Hallarious woman over 50 ,CD ,IBS 27 years--resection,fistula's,obstructions,and still alive.lol gail


Osprey101
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Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 10/22/2008 1:11 PM (GMT -7)   
Interestingly, I was chatting with an expert in mycobacteria in South Africa not long ago; aside from a few herds of sheep, Mycobacterium avium ssp. paratuberculosis- the agent responsible for Johne's disease- is almost unknown in Africa. I don't know about its prevalence in China.

Also worthy of mention: in "Good Calories, Bad Calories," Taubes notes that many "western" diseases were unknown to native populations in certain regions of the world before white flour, rice, and sugar were introduced. I always thought the reports were of poor quality, but he notes- and documents- multiple reports from physicians who served for years or even decades without seeing many diseases that were common in European populations in the same area. I had thought these could be due to age differences, i.e.: the natives dying at younger ages, but the reports include comments to the effect that these disorders were not age-dependent, and that they were- in many cases- comparable.

For example, appendicitis- almost unknown in many countries that had no western diet. Hemorrhoids- same deal. Cancer- very rare to non-existent.

The running joke is that it's not what you eat- it's that speaking English is what'll kill you. But these observations are sometimes made in populations in which one sub-group moved to a western diet, and ended up suffering from maladies that they previously did not see. Tribes like the Masai and groups like the Eskimo survive on what constitute carnivore- or nearly so- diets, and suffered little if at all from these diseases.

Now compare that with rates of disease such as obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc. in Native American populations and aborigines, and- wow. They just go right off the charts. But take away the huge quantities of carbohydrates these peoples are fed, and they normalize; the weight comes off, the diabetes comes under control, and so forth.

Really some very good books on the subject: everything by the Weston Price Foundation; "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Taubes; "In Defense of Food" by Pollan- all exactingly written and referenced.

ivy6
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Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 10404
   Posted 10/22/2008 4:14 PM (GMT -7)   
We've recently had a few posts here from people living in China. I can't remember if they were Westerners working there, or actual Chinese people, though.
Co-Moderator Crohn's Forum.


EricaM
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 184
   Posted 10/22/2008 6:07 PM (GMT -7)   
Here's a link that discusses UC and Crohn's in China...It's an abstract from the Journal of Gastroenterology & Hepatology

Management Consensus of Inflammatory Bowel Disease for the Asia-Pacific Region

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/549391?rss
Erica
Crohn's and Ostomy in 2004


gachrons
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Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 4527
   Posted 10/23/2008 3:13 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Eric could not get into site as it requires members and wouldn't accept
me trying to register. lol gail
Hallarious woman over 50 ,CD ,IBS 27 years--resection,fistula's,obstructions,and still alive.lol gail


hspenser
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Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 544
   Posted 10/23/2008 5:22 AM (GMT -7)   

Based on first hand experience and what I have read about processed foods and their link to IBS issues I have come to the conclusion, like many, that our diets as well as the additves in our food are a big contributor to our plight.

I have said on here many times that I know for a fact that when I spend time in Costa Rica, Panama, and other less developed areas I go into remission...and this happens very quickly once I am there.  The effect and and after effect were even more noticable when I was in Africa.  The foods sold to the citizens is usually fresh and has gone through very little processing.  The farmers do not use as much (if any) pesticides, herbacides, or insecticides.  Also, coconut, especially in the central american countries is used in many dishes.  Coconut has in some studies been shown to have some major effect on our auto-immune systems.

There are other contributing factors for me...but bottom line is I am almost crohns free in the less developed nations....and when I went to africa the re-mission had a carry over that lasted for almost two weeks after I got back stateside.   Just to nip the obvious comment inthe bud....not all of my trips south and certainly not my trip to africa are vacations.  Mnay are very stressfull working trips...so I gotta feel the food/diet is the big thing.

Consider this.....how many cases of crohns, UC or IBS were reported back in our grandparents day?  what were their diets?

 


dx IBS 1999   UC 2000   CD 2001
Tested BIOGEN TYSABRI (gave me 2 years of remission)
tried Naltrexone Jan. 19, 2007 Stopped the Naltrexone July 28th...started Humira Aug 31st, 2007...current dose two shots every other week.
Crohns is currently active and has been since April of 2005
52 yrs old


Jeny
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 437
   Posted 10/23/2008 10:12 AM (GMT -7)   
i'm no expert, but in response to the last post. I wanted to say that in my family at least, there are several of my great (great, great, etc.) aunts and great uncles that have reportadly died of some sort of bowel trouble. nothing specific. my grandma says that her mother suffered from D and pain the gut. My grandfather had a brother who died from D. So i believe it did happen back then, it just didn't have a name. By the way, my family is German on the Crohn's side and Native American and Irish on the Diabetic/Heart Disease side.

I read an off the wall article a while back about how people from China and African countries don't sit on a toilet like we do and they squat to use the facilites. That the use of those muscles and how it's 'more natural' to our bodies to squat could be a factor...not the answer, but at least something else to look at.

Just my 2 cents.
-Jeny

hspenser
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Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 544
   Posted 10/23/2008 10:33 AM (GMT -7)   

jeny,

I don't mean to imply that the disease didn't exisit...but that it was notnearly as common.  I am sure that there were many gastro issues...but from what I have read...based on studies since records have been kept, there seems to be a greater increase in modern day than in the past and the rate of increase is rapid...more rapid than the increase in population...this suggests to some a relationship between auto-immune and our environment. 

Without a doubt many of us are more susceptible to crohns or other diseases than others because of our family medical histories.  In my mind there is no reason that the two issues can't be related...for instance...my grandfather on my mothers side had some issue with his gut...but never severe enough to require even a doctors visit...then in my 40's I start having trouble and it turns out to be crohns.......now both of my sons in their 20's seem to be having some sort of issue...could it be that our genetic make up is such that as our society has more pollution and adds more chemicals that the weakness in my family genes is more and more exploited?

Of course if we knew the answers to all of this there would probably already be cure for crohns.....sigh


dx IBS 1999   UC 2000   CD 2001
Tested BIOGEN TYSABRI (gave me 2 years of remission)
tried Naltrexone Jan. 19, 2007 Stopped the Naltrexone July 28th...started Humira Aug 31st, 2007...current dose two shots every other week.
Crohns is currently active and has been since April of 2005
52 yrs old


Jeny
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 437
   Posted 10/23/2008 11:13 AM (GMT -7)   
hspenser,
off topic question. I see that you were on Tysabri. Why did u go off of it? My doctor has suggested this to me and I'm seriously considering but am finding very few people that have a personal experience with it. Did it cause any side effects? How long did it take to help you?

Also, I agree with u about environmental factors and family history. The 'western' diet theory really has an effect on what I feed my children. From the start I don't give them many carbs or sugars and try to give them fresh foods, whole grains and organic foods as much as I can. Hope this will help...at least it will help with obesity that runs in our families.
Thanks!
-Jeny

hspenser
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 544
   Posted 10/23/2008 11:33 AM (GMT -7)   

On topic.....what you are doing FOR your kids is great.  I am over 50 and have developed some very bad eating habits....and as a trained chef I am probably worse off than many.  Fresh food ..you bet...heavy in fats...you bet   Big portions...you bet.  Rich red meats....almost daily (at least used to be)  Heavy on the wines and booze....it only helps the food taste better!...So my habits are horrible...but i am trying to mend my ways and my wife is helping me stay on track.  So good luck and please don't give up on the greatest gift you can give your kids....a great start towards good health.

 

as for the Tysabri....I was one of the lab rats starting back in 2001 or 2002.  I was taking it before it even had a name.  I had great results with it...almost 100% symptom free.  Gain a lot of weight, and could eat anything.  I had an infusion every 4 weeks and by the end of week 4 I could feel myself slipping back in the crohns hole.  As you may know they had some folks who died while taking the stuff and it was traced back to the Tysabri and a reaction to other auto-immine drugs they were taking at the same time.  Almost all who have had the terrible reaction were folks who were taking it for MS.  I think only 1 crohns test person died.  SO.....they canceled the trials and I got sick again.  Lost more weight than I had gained and have not been in remission since.

If they had not canceled the trials i would have stayed on the drug even knowing about the issues.   I would have been back on it by now except there have been a couple more deaths (JC virus)...again associated with other very strong auto-immune drugs.  If I could be sure that it would work again like it did before...no problem i would be back on it.  But I have been told that there is a very real chance that because I was on it so long the first time (over two years) and because I have been on Humira...there is a very real chance that the effectiveness of the drug could be diminished by 20 to 30 % or more...and there is an equally real possibility that it won't work at all....I may have built up a resistance to the stuff.  So..in my mind...I am thinking diminished effectiveness and the same risk of harm????HMMMMM?  Is it still worth the risk?  I am not fully decided to go back on ...but I am leaning that way.


dx IBS 1999   UC 2000   CD 2001
Tested BIOGEN TYSABRI (gave me 2 years of remission)
tried Naltrexone Jan. 19, 2007 Stopped the Naltrexone July 28th...started Humira Aug 31st, 2007...current dose two shots every other week.
Crohns is currently active and has been since April of 2005
52 yrs old

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