Crohns nutrtion questions

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Drax
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 11/9/2008 9:35 PM (GMT -7)   
Im with the understanding that nutrtion is not absorbed as effectively with Crohn's diesese.
Food eaten is usually discarded by diarehea correct?
 
Does products such as Protein shakes and tablet vitamins prove beneficial to people with crohn's?
 
Regarding vegetables and fruit, are they best taken as juice, made with a juice machine?
 
Do prtoein shakes and juices absorb into the body?
 
Also are probiotics reccomended for Crohn's patients? and if so are there certain strains reccomended or not reccomended?
 
Thank You.
 
 

Post Edited (Drax) : 11/9/2008 9:46:57 PM (GMT-7)


Osprey101
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 11/10/2008 11:38 AM (GMT -7)   
Tough questions. With nobody else giving them a shot, I'll give it a stab.

First off, consult with your GI. How are your blood values? Deficiencies will show up there in many cases. Treat appropriately.

Protein shakes and supplements may be of benefit, but this is on a case-by-case basis, and it is difficult to say. When I was losing weight, I can state with some authority that no matter how much protein I would consume, it wasn't staying in long enough to be assimilated.

Juicing may actually increase problems, depending upon what you're juicing. If you free up more sugars and electrolytes within the cells, and these are not absorbed, they will serve to osmotically pull water out of your gut, making D worse.

Probiotics: Everything but L. bifidus (which includes Bifidobacterium spp.). There are good reasons for this, but the biochemistry is complex so I'll say why only if anyone is interested. As such, the best yogurt I have found is Fage; I also supplement with acidophilus capsues.

Highly recommended: get the starch out of your diet, and reduce your carbohydrate intake. You might consider the SCD if you have not already. If you cannot follow the SCD, then read "Life Without Bread," reduce your total carbs to under 72 grams/day, and see if you get better.

If you eschew the diet, then I recommend supplementation with plenty of calcium, along with *safe* doses of vitamins A and D (i.e., more is not better as these are fat soluble vitamins and it is possible to overdose). Get a bone scan done if your insurance will cover it. Get about 1000 mg/day of pantothenic acid (B5) divided evenly throughout the day. Some people find supplementation with fish oil is useful. Enteric coated peppermint oil (ECPO) may help keep the bacteria at bay.

Good luck.

EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 11/10/2008 12:19 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Drax and welcome! I recommend reading anything on this forum that you can dig up on the SCD, The Maker's Diet and Life Without Bread. We've had some great discussions on it and there are many here who follow one of those diets or a modified version.

Osprey pretty much covered it, but I'll add that if by protein shakes you meant products such as Boost or Ensure, we steer clear due to the long list of less-than-acceptable ingredients. Also, we do use a juicer and really like it. We use it exclusively for vegetables, though ...okay, sometimes cheating with an apple added for better flavor...

As far as whether probiotics are "recommended", going by what I read here, it seems a few doctors will recommend them but most do not (ours included). That said, it also seems that most people who use them feel they are of value. We use them and also eat home made yogurt which adds even more.
Mom to 16 year old son diagnosed in June, 2007.
Omega 3s, digestive enzymes, probiotics, vit. C, calcium w/D3, a good multivitamin and SCD legal yogurt
Started The Maker's Diet in Sept. '07. Gradually learning/using more Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) recipes, too! (cooking challenged)


Drax
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 11/10/2008 4:31 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for the feedback, this is a new thing to me and it is pretty overwhelming..

My main concern has been my weight loss. Ive lost 15 kilo's in about 8 months,
And I thought that with a muscle building brand, "MAX's" or "Bodyscience" type weight gain
shake may help me put some weight back on, if it absorbs correctly.

Osprey101
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 11/10/2008 4:42 PM (GMT -7)   
Unfortunately, the weight loss is due to malabsorption; adding more probably won't help due to the damage to your gut. In animals, this is known as protein-losing enteropathy (PLE), and simply adding more protein to the diet is unlikely to directly impact your weight loss.

My suggestion would be to look at the SCD. If you've not been overtly ill for very long, your chances of reversing the damage are possibly better than if you've been sick for years or decades. It'll take a good 2-3 months of rigorous dieting to get there, but the weight will start to come back. I was losing weight at a pound a week until I started the SCD; the D stopped within 2-3 days, and the weight came back on at a pound a week for 3 months. By that point, I was up to a healthy weight- same as I was at in high school- and have stayed there. D and bleeding have ceased. I have to be exceedingly careful about what I eat- when Gottschall says the diet must be followed *exactly*, she's not kidding around.

So- while I didn't lose 15 kgs in 8 months (mine was closer to 13-14 kgs over the same time period), I can sympathize. Good luck!

CrazyHarry
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 1034
   Posted 11/10/2008 5:44 PM (GMT -7)   
when looking at juicing, you must know if you actually have a juicer or a blender. a lot of juicers are really just blenders (ie vitamix). a juicer separates the fiberous pulp from the juice. so if you juice what you normally eat, a real juicer will give you an ounce or two of juice, not a large glass full as seen on the commercials. juicing can exacerbate symptoms, but it can be good for you. for us, i'd recommend in small doses but it also depends on nutritional type as to whether juicing is really good for you. juicing also concentrates the sugars so be wary. i'd recommend juicing for fasting. overall, imho, it is better to eat your fruits and veggies cos you get the fiber, but juicing does have its place.

juice absorbs better and faster than food you had to chew. the body has to work less to assimilate it.

most protein shakes and vitamins are junk - just all fillers. you have to do a lot of research when looking for a good product. imho vitamins are a good idea for us cos we have a digestive disorder, hence it may be hard for us to absorb all of what we eat. the problem is compounded in those of us who have had surgery. but the key is to find a good brand that is not all synthetic cos the body doesnt like synthetics. a cheap vitamin is junk, that is why it is cheap. but an expensive vitamin isnt necessarily first rate.

stay away from soy protein. egg white protein is ok. casein is hard for the body to digest and people with milk allergies are really allergic to casein, not milk/lactose. whey is a solid protein, but most dont use a good system in the extraction process and thus you are getting a damaged protein and in a lot of cases synthetic protein.
Crazy Harry

---------------------------------------------
Crohn's since 1993 (17 yrs old then)
surgery in July '05 - removal of 2 inches at ileum and 8 inches of sigmoid colon (had fistula into bladder)
Nov '05 developed colonic inertia; July '06 told i needed ostomy surgery
began maker's diet in August '06 - now feeling the best ever with no symptoms of colonic inertia and i kept my colon
med free as of 10/31/07


Drax
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 11/11/2008 3:09 PM (GMT -7)   
This is one Protein powder ive been looking at:
 
contains:
Ingredients: Hydrolysed Whey Protein Isolate, Glutamine Peptides, Taurine, L-Leucine, L-Isoleucine, L-Valine, , Natural & Nature Identical flavours & colours, Vegetable Gum (407), Soy Lecithin, Sweeteners (950, 951), Minerals (Potassium Citrate, Tri Calcium Phosphate, Magnesium Oxide, Ferrous Fumarate, Zinc Sulphate, Potassium Iodide, Sodium Selenite, Chromium Chloride), Vitamins (Vitamin C, Nicotinamide, Vitamin B6, Pantothenic Acid, Riboflavin, Niacin, Thiamin, Vitamin A Acetate, Folic Acid, Vitamin D3, Biotin, Vitamin B12).
 
 
Very little carbs and fat, no lactose and the Hydrolysed WPI sounds good as they describe :
Now Reload HGF takes WPI to the next level. Reload HGF is pure, highest quality, 100% hydrolysed WPI. This means you get 100% bioactive peptides that require virtually no digestion and can be rapidly absorbed and assimilated by your trained muscles for immediate results. said...
(replace this text with what was said)
 
This should give me the best possible powder for absorbtion.
What do you's think?

Post Edited (Drax) : 11/11/2008 3:25:51 PM (GMT-7)


ivy6
Elite Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 10404
   Posted 11/11/2008 3:30 PM (GMT -7)   
Drax, if malabsorption is your problem, then I'd recommend getting a drink that contains vitamins and minerals. The drink you described seemed to be filled up with a lot of additives, but not many real vitamins.

I have the feeling that you're in Australia. If that's the case, then you should be able to get some Sustagen in your supermarket. You can also ask your pharmacist about getting some Resource drinks. Both are filled with many, many more vitamins and minerals than the drink you described. If you're lactose / dairy intolerant, there are a few Resource flavours that don't contain milk - ask the pharmacist for advice.

I'd also recommend talking to your doctor. S/he might be able to refer you to a dietitian. It sounds to me as if you need some professional advice, more than what you'd get here. A dietitian might be able to help you obtain a more "complete" liquid food - and at discount price - and give you more advice on managing your weight.

Oh, before I forget, you can also buy a powder called "Polycose". It's tasteless and you add it to your drinks / foods for extra calories. Again, ask your pharmacist, doctor or dietitian.

Best wishes,

Ivy.
Co-Moderator Crohn's Forum.


ivy6
Elite Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 10404
   Posted 11/11/2008 3:31 PM (GMT -7)   
ps. And if all else fails, there's Aktavite. Read the back - heaps of vitamins and minerals.
Co-Moderator Crohn's Forum.


Drax
New Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 4
   Posted 11/11/2008 4:12 PM (GMT -7)   
ok, ill check that out.. i have akta vite but I havent had any in a while as i wasnt sure whether
that was a trigger, but i might experement with it.
thanks.

Osprey101
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 11/11/2008 6:19 PM (GMT -7)   
Polycose is polymeric glucose. From their website, they describe it as being >1000 Daltons, which means it's going to feed bacteria in your gut- same as starch.

Aktavite is largely carbohydrates. From the ingredients: SUGAR, COCOA (17%), BARLEY MALT EXTRACT, WHEAT STARCH... etc. Another set of foods that will feed bacteria in your gut.

Sustagen boasts that it's 97% fat free, and the ingredients show it is loaded with carbohydrates.

The Reload HGF looks better in that it receives very few calories from carbohydrates.

If this disease is caused by ingesting too many carbohydrates- and there are several very good studies that show that Crohn's is more common in those who do- and if the symptoms are caused by Klebsiella (as the papers from the Ebringer group in the UK show very effectively), then consuming more carbohydrates is probably not a good idea.
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