Combining SCD and LWD diet

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Artzichic882
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 29
   Posted 12/1/2008 5:58 AM (GMT -7)   
I have been on the SCD for over a month now and as I posted earlier, as soon as the predisone was out of my symptoms I started to flare. I know the diet takes a few months to heal your symptoms but I just don't know if I have the will power to keep at the diet without medicine that is going to help me as well. I am training for the CCFA 1/2 marathon in January and I can not deal with flares right now. So tomorrow I go to the doctor and am planning on starting humira. I still want to keep at the diet and still limit carbs and sugar, I just don't want to be so strict that I am going to set myself up to fail.

For those that have combined the two diets, do you mainly follow the 6 BU a day rule? Do you count honey, apple cider, etc in those 6 BUs? It seems to me if I eliminate the lactose that I can count the yogurt as not being a BU, however I then add fruit and honey to it so that will count towards BU I think. Anyway, I am having a hard time combining the two and wanted to see how you all had done it!

Thanks in advance!

Lisa
Diagnosed with Crohn's Disease at ileum 2.5 years ago.
Currently on: Prednisone & Pentasa


Artzichic882
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 29
   Posted 12/1/2008 6:00 AM (GMT -7)   
I meant Life Without Bread (LWB) not LWD, sorry!
Diagnosed with Crohn's Disease at ileum 2.5 years ago.
Currently on: Prednisone & Pentasa


EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 12/1/2008 7:16 AM (GMT -7)   
Just a thought.....I think how long it takes to heal it totally depends on how severe you are to begin with and how strictly you follow the diet. Also, my son started to flare when he initially came off the prednisone--maybe this is common? Thankfully it subsided on its own. I often think it was the probiotic that helped him at that point. Are you taking a good one?

I'll defer to Osprey or whomever on the LWB question! wink Good luck to you!
Mom to 16 year old son diagnosed in June, 2007.
Omega 3s, digestive enzymes, probiotics, vit. C, calcium w/D3, a good multivitamin and SCD legal yogurt
Started The Maker's Diet in Sept. '07. Gradually learning/using more Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) recipes, too! (cooking challenged)


spookyh
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 1342
   Posted 12/1/2008 8:46 AM (GMT -7)   
Sometimes tapering too fast can cause a flare. Here's a guide I found to tapering off of prednisone. My doctor used a similar style, but I think this one looks better yet:

This advice is not meant to encourage someone
to stop taking prednisone against doctor's orders,
but is rather an approach that has been used
by some doctors with success for patients who
were unable to get off prednisone more quickly.

To those trying a slow prednisone wean,
It starts when you get down to 20 mg.

two weeks - alternate 20mg/15mg every other day
two weeks - alternate 20 mg/10mg every other day
two weeks - alternate 20 mg/5mg every other day
two weeks - alternate 20 mg/0 mg every other day
two weeks - 15 mg every other day
two weeks - 10 mg every other day
two weeks - 5 mg every other day
two weeks - 2.5 mg every other day

Osprey101
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 12/1/2008 11:52 AM (GMT -7)   
Ya gotta do what ya gotta do to keep going. If you find at this point that the meds are necessary to forge ahead, then yes- by all means, do so.

There is a reason for that firm 72 gram-per-day ceiling for LWB, and that's health reasons that relate to glucose in the blood. That figure comes from what is required to prevent diabetes and insulin resistance. This is a very real risk; from:

http://diabetes.niddk.nih.gov/dm/pubs/statistics/#allages

some 23.8% of all people over the age of 60 will have diabetes- diagnosed as such or not. That is a devastating figure. Fortunately, exercise helps as if you burn off the glucose (blood sugar) there is less of an influence from insulin- see also "Good Calories, Bad Calories" by Taubes. A must-read if there's a history of diabetes in your family.

So, a little extra honey, fruit, etc. probably won't hurt (from a blood sugar perspective) if you're jogging your tuckus off.

From a Crohn's perspective: NO complex carbs if you can help it. No pasta, no root vegetables (absolutely no potatoes), no sugary veggies like carrots. Low sugar veggies- if they agree with you personally- are great: cauliflower and broccoli. I've not tried Brussels sprouts, but I hear they are excellent if cut in half and fried in turkey fat.

I would humbly suggest that you can run a half marathon in this fashion; once you break the sugar addiction and your mitochondria get used to burning fat instead of carbs (that takes 2-4 weeks), you're set. If you have any doubt as to whether you can run such a distance in ketosis, read up on "fat loading."

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=%22fat+loading%22+marathon&btnG=Search&aq=f&oq=

The point is not whether fat loading or carb loading will win you a marathon (or half marathon or whatever), but that it CAN be done, and you will not fall flat on your face at the 2-mile mark when your glycogen stores are exhausted (as some would have it). I got past the "sugar shakes," and have found it makes my recreational exertion rather easier. I go caving, and have found it gives me greater stamina. I don't "crash" like my fellow cavers do when their soda and white bread lifestyle winds down their energy.

Personal note: I have found 1-2 tablespoons of coconut oil half an hour or so before exercising has some good energy to it. Either that, or a tablespoon of "Trader Joe's" almond butter. Yum.

Artzichic882
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 29
   Posted 12/1/2008 12:47 PM (GMT -7)   
Thank you everyone for your help....especially Osprey101 for let me feel like it is okay to not just rely on the diet alone and the mainenance drugs that don't work anymore. I have been off prednisone for two weeks now (I went off at 10mg). I think my first flare was probably a combination of dealing with going of the meds. This flare that I am currently in I am pretty sure it is diet related. I wanted the diet to work so much and really am getting discouraged that I keep flaring.

I know that at some point I want to try again just being on the diet and maintance drugs. But with my race coming up I need to not have flares so I just don't have the time to keep messing with my diet and flaring without any other medicine. It was great to hear Osprey101's perspective on working out with the high-fat diet. I still am interested in keeping with the diet, I just want to move more towards LWB instead of SCD because the SCD has so many more rules and is harder to live with. I have lost about 10 pounds in 6 weeks, so part of my problem is to make sure I am still eating enough food without the carbs to keep up with all of the training I am doing and not loose too much more weight. I was a little worried about not carb-loading before running, but so far I am up to almost 9 miles and I am doing fine! I actually just did a 10K on Thursday and beat my personal record!

Thank you all for the advice so far!
Diagnosed with Crohn's Disease at ileum 2.5 years ago.
Currently on: Prednisone & Pentasa


Osprey101
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 12/1/2008 11:08 PM (GMT -7)   
The SCD is a minefield- adherents need to tiptoe around every potential hazard, whereas LWB just makes you tread more softly across a frozen pond. Both probably get you to the same endpoint; the bug that's growing inside you- Klebsiella pneumoniae- is a real sugar hog. It feeds on refined carbohydrates and polymeric carbs like starch. The SCD eliminates every tiny little source, while the LWB (and similar diets such as Atkins and "starch buster" diets) simply drops the amount you consume. Unfortunately, it'll take weeks to register substantial results, and months of continued effort to appreciably impact your disease path. Many people will stop, thinking it's not working. Whether this is true or not remains to be seen. The SCD will drive adherents to orthorexic breakdowns, crying at the thought of their favorite vitamin or supplement being ruled out because of some 20 mg of "illegal" component. God bless Elaine Gottschall (and I am not a religious person by any means), but can we *please* stop treating this disease like an illegal compound is an allergen, or like wheat gluten to a celiac? A tiny touch of "stuff"- starch, lactose, table sugar- probably makes little or no difference in the long run. Just make it *tiny*, as in "a few milligrams here and there."

I have thought long and hard about this, and I consider the dietary route to be the best choice for those who can demonstrate great discipline over their eating habits- most obviously because Crohn's disease tends to go hand-in-hand with being a sugar junkie. I know I was- and shaking that for me was extremely easy. Every trip to the lavatory was a painful reminder- the best of Pavlovian conditioning, right there. I have also thought that athletes were the best candidates for either SCD or LWB in that they have the discipline necessary to stick to such a diet, seeing the long-term goals and benefits with greater clarity- not to mention not wanting to load up on drugs.

Don't let setbacks get you down. If there are clear signs of improvement, it WILL work in the long run (no pun intended). I never thought I'd ever clog my toilet with a single bm. At one point, I would have been happy to never see blood for just a single week- let alone 9 weeks in a row! In retrospect, I wish I knew then what I knew now, and would have done bacterial cultures from my gut once a week as time went on. The change in intestinal flora would have been fascinating to observe.
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