Maker's Diet with lactose intolerance

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slew92
New Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 5
   Posted 12/3/2008 7:30 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi all- I'm new to this board- very excited I found so much info and would like to ask a Q. Hopefully I'm not already repeating someone (forgive me if I am), but I have Crohn's- was dx'd 2003 with 3 bowel perforations- very long story, mostly being misdiagnosed by countless specialists, one of which put me on prednisone which I believe pushed me over the edge- Had to have emergency surgery, they removed about 4 ft of Ileum, my cecum and ~6" of Ascending Colon. I have been generally well since then, a flare up here and there- nothing ever too extreme. I found that eating mushrooms was like putting poison in body, as I would immediately flare up and it could last a few days. Also, I also discovered that I was very much lactose intolerant. After my sx, they we finally agreed that sulfasalazine was working best to maintain me and keep the arthritis that I had as a manifestation of crohn's suppressed. I then started to eat a vegetarian diet at the advice of a nutritionist/friend, and was able to go off of sulfasalazine and was drug free- however, I was studying to get into a physician assistant program (very stressful) as well a working full time, and the stresses (i believe) caused me to flare up again, this time with peri-rectal issues. This time, my GI put me on entecort 9mg and cipro. Again, I followed the regimen, incorporated some fish into my diet every now and then, and went back into remission. Brought back down to only 3mg of entecort for maintenance, which lasted up until the this past fall. I got married this summer which was amazing, but also very stressful due to the fact that we put it on our selves, and I started the physician assistant program (I am now finishing my first semester- again, very stressful!)- just went to see my GI a few weeks ago, because I was kidding myself that I could just "get better". I lost about 6lbs and I was having cramps and basically eating only rice products. My GI put me on 9mg of entocort and also put me on Cipro. All of this background story to tell you...
...I feel a bit better since, but I want to do something that lasts, and I would love to get off of the meds. I've tried variations of vegetarianism and veganism, and I cannot seem to stay in remission and thrive. After I spoke with my pharmacology professor about different herbal remedies for inflammation, she gave me a book which she considered "too radical", but thought I might be interested- The Maker's Diet. This was yesterday- I'm about a third of the way through it, and I'm very intrigued... I've read a lot of the posts here on this board about people's experiences with the diet and many compelling stories abound! Even on other sites and Amazon reviews of the book, people seem to have a lot of life altering circumstances. From my limited knowledge of the book/diet thus far, I've realized that I eat very similarly (all organic) but I don't eat meat and I eat some processed organic cookies and refined sugar. I fell like I'm ready to give meat a try if this diet really has changed people's lives the way it seems to have- I guess I need to read the book in its entirety before I make that leap, but I had some Q's. I have some pretty harsh dairy issues currently- even yogurt seems to give me gas/cramps/D. Also, it seems that raw veges/fruits/nuts are heavily incorporated into this diet- I know I need to read the entire book to fully understand, but I just can't help myself- I want to know if this diet is possible with these issues, and if these issues were corrected because of this diet in some of you. Sorry about the long windedness, but I just wanted to give some back ground. Any info would be greatly appreciated.

pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 12/3/2008 7:41 PM (GMT -7)   
I had severe lactose intolerance but sine taking Primadophilus Reuteri (probiotic) daily I no longer have lactose issues, it also aids with high cholesterol and for women, vaginal health (of course men can take it too).

I gave up on refined sugar and processed foods/beverages as well as sugar substitutes (I only use honey or Stevia), I gave up fast-foods as well, along with caffeine and animal fat as all of these are known to exacerbate IBD symptoms.

I don't follow any specific diet that is specific to IBDers although I've been told the way I eat is similar to SCD, I just use common sense, no junk, eat totally healthy and exercise regularly.

I'm sure you'll get plenty of replies, there are a lot of friendly people here offering good advice based on their experiances.

:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)


Osprey101
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 12/3/2008 8:21 PM (GMT -7)   
If you're going to read Maker's Diet, then I suggest "Breaking the Vicious Cycle." Rubin was strongly advised by the author (Elaine Gottschall), and I suspect Rubin got better because of BTVC, not eating "essential soil organisms."

Another option is "Life Without Bread," and if you're not much into eating meat- tough luck. More precisely, good luck in getting the carbs out without eating meat. I can save you the cover charge and say: reduce your total dietary carbs to 72 grams/day and no more. It takes a while, but it works 85% of the time according to the author.

I'm on something somewhere between LWB and BTVC, off all my meds and doing great- but there's LOTS of chicken for lunch and dinner.

EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 12/3/2008 9:21 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Hill Bombers and welcome! I, like you, ran across "The Maker's Diet" first, and that's where we started. How very, very nice of your pharmacology professor to give you that book!!! Tell her I said thanks! I don't think it's necessarily "too radical", Rubin is just in to super healthy eating. I give him credit for writing a very inspiring story about his journey, that's for sure! Don't think you need to buy his supplements, though. There are many good brands of probiotics and digestive enzymes on the market. Also, he was coached back to wellness by Elaine Gottschall--I have it on good authority.

Remember, whatever you do it will take time and there will likely be setbacks along the road. After you read the MD, please do read "Breaking the Vicious Cycle" by Elaine Gottschall, as Osprey101 suggested. It will pull everything together for you. It is all about carbs...carbs carbs carbs. Elaine explains it well, as does the LWB book Osprey suggested. Also, Elaine would not have you start with the raw veggies, fruits and nuts you mentioned that you have issues with. Since you've had surgery in the past, they may never be a good option...I don't know... But please learn to like meat. Maybe start with a wonderful, light, white fish like Tilapia, Halibut or Flounder. Do you like salmon? Gosh, I'm hungry...

In BTVC, Elaine also explains the importance of the home made, 24 hour fermented yogurt. The beneficial bacteria in the yogurt re-populate the intestinal tract and the lactose is virtually all used up during fermentation (no worries about lactose intolerance). Store bought yogurt cannot compete in number of beneficial bacteria (700 billion in one cup) and super low lactose content. It shouldn't give you any intestinal issues, but she does say to add it to the diet slowly.

Good luck to you! Stay with us! We love to chat about this stuff! smilewinkgrin
Mom to 16 year old son diagnosed in June, 2007.
Omega 3s, digestive enzymes, probiotics, vit. C, calcium w/D3, a good multivitamin and SCD legal yogurt
Started The Maker's Diet in Sept. '07. Gradually learning/using more Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) recipes, too! (cooking challenged)


slew92
New Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 5
   Posted 12/4/2008 9:40 AM (GMT -7)   
just wanted to say thanks so much for all of your helpful replies. i will definitely look into the SCD- Breaking the Viscious Cycle and LWB. I will also finish the MD and report my findings. Thanks again!

Osprey101
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 12/4/2008 12:33 PM (GMT -7)   
I don't know about whether fermentation takes out ALL the lactose or not; I think there's some left over, even after 24 hours. For someone who is really lactose-sensitive, maybe taking "Lactaid" or another lactase-containing supplement might help.

I had originally thought the fermentation gets rid of the lactose, but now I think it just cuts it in half or so. For those that don't do well with it, take care with even the prepared yogurt. I've tried to find a lab that will analyze SCD-compliant yogurt, but none of them will email me back.

EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 12/4/2008 1:22 PM (GMT -7)   
Hey Osprey...I took a quick peek at the SCD site to see what they say about yogurt and lactose. Elaine put it this way: "As the yogurt bacterial culture breaks down the lactose into simpler forms, we will absorb the simpler carbohydrate molecules instead of their feeding overgrowth of bacteria in the lower intestine."

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/beginners_guide/yoghurt/yog_importance.htm

Also, here's an explanation of why store-bought yogurt is much higher in lactose--actually higher than milk! Did I read that correctly? Who knew?

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/knowledge_base/kb/yoghurt_commercially_produced.htm

This might be interesting, too, since you mentioned Lactaid:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/knowledge_base/kb/lactose_hydrolized_milk.htm

Lastly, this website actually mentions Klebsiella pneumoniae and how FOS/Inulin are thought to feed it and possibly yeast, as well. This page was pretty interesting to read!

http://www.healingcrow.com/ferfun/conspiracy/conspiracy.html

Okay...done with my break. Back to work... rolleyes
Mom to 16 year old son diagnosed in June, 2007.
Omega 3s, digestive enzymes, probiotics, vit. C, calcium w/D3, a good multivitamin and SCD legal yogurt
Started The Maker's Diet in Sept. '07. Gradually learning/using more Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) recipes, too! (cooking challenged)


CrohnsPatient
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 314
   Posted 12/4/2008 2:06 PM (GMT -7)   
What do you drs think about a vegetarian diet? Its been proven that a normal GI tract cant get esentials from this, so Im wondering how someone that has problems absorbing on a daily basis is helped.

I have to admit that I have read a couple of the makers diets books, and its very expensive to maintain, not to mention the will power you have to have is incredible. I dont know if you ever going to 100 percent be in remission forever on anything, especially just a diet.

Althought I do have to add that I did start eating organic at one point in time, and tend to have no bloating, and maintain weight very well. And as for being lactose intolerant I'm only 'lactose intolerant' when flaring, and even then its not fully lactose in tolerance, its more like the more severe dairy products are bad for me, like ice cream and milk, but not cheeses and such, but even there I found Soy milk and products to be just fine.

Also for bloating and lactose intolerance a good digestive enzyme will do just fine.

There are not cure-alls for Crohns disease, especially someone that has had surgeries before. I'm sure your aware that if you've had a surgery there is a 50-50 chance you will have another, and so forth, on and on. Me myself, I've had 5 resections.

Osprey101
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 12/4/2008 9:56 PM (GMT -7)   
>I dont know if you ever going to 100 percent be in remission forever on anything, especially just a diet.

That depends upon what the root cause is. If the cause is truly autoimmune, no- probably not. But what if Crohn's is not an autoimmune disease? What if the infectious disease whackos are right, and it's something like MAP or Klebsiella pneumoniae or something weird like Tropheryma whipplei?

Take a quick peek at the history of the human diet. 10,000 years ago, there were no grains. Even after their introduction, they were never as prevalent as they are today; between corn, wheat, rice, barley, and related species, along with potatoes, that's a HUGE slug of complex carbohydrates in the diet. Add on top of that the 150-170 pounds a YEAR the average American eats (plus a whopping 46 pounds of artificial sweeteners, as if the sugar wasn't enough), and one has to ask themselves- is this healthy? If not, how might this manifest?

And then read the Ebringer work on Klebsiella pneumoniae, and how the starch debranching enzyme pullulanase causes the immune system to be sensitized to certain types of collagen. Then if you're HLA-B27 positive, the body- in its attempt to purge the klebsiella from the intestines- attacks its own collagen, starting in the spine, causing ankylosing spondylitis. But if the individual is HLA-B27 negative, the affected collagens are in the intestines- causing Crohn's.

From that perspective, maybe getting the starches and sugars out of the gut- to stop feeding the klebsiella- might indeed be a "cure." I put that in quotes as it's like cancer- one is rarely (if ever) "cured" of cancer; it's a remission which may last months or years, but one must be vigilant. In the same vein, if someone who is sufficiently abstemious in their consumption of carbohydrates, perhaps they can rid themselves of my disease.

In my case, I'm off all my meds since 19 December, 2007. And I feel normal. Frankly, I don't care if it's a "cure" or not; I'm in relief and I think I know why.

EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 12/4/2008 10:49 PM (GMT -7)   
abstemious? ...thank goodness for online dictionaries! turn

CrohnsPatient
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 314
   Posted 12/5/2008 11:32 AM (GMT -7)   
There is never going to be an agreeing opinion on this for right now and thats just the sad truth. But for the majority of people its not going to be enough. Unless your getting by on very little medication then I would definetly be willing to try it.

CrazyHarry
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 1034
   Posted 12/5/2008 4:02 PM (GMT -7)   
i was looking at a colectomy and did the makers diet. i was skeptical at first, but now truly believe there is something to this, and the scd, which i incorporated a few months later, cos i never had the surgery as the diet reversed my symptoms. it is just hard for most of us to believe cos it sounds too simple. we're predisposed at an early age that in order to get better you need medicine, surgery, or both. it is amazing the medical properties of food! these 2 diets are also hard because you have to radically change your eating habits, even if you start the diet slowly, which is recommended. most people dont have the patience and wont stomach out the detox. but if you have the discipline to do so, imho you'll come out feeling better and healthier. plus it will by then become a habit so the diet will be easy to maintain as it is more of a lifestyle than a diet.

i've been told by several GI's that it is something like 90+% of people with crohn's are or become lactose intolerant. i was fine with milk until a year or two after i was diagnosed. my brother and sister tolerate milk fine. but also humans lose the ability to digest milk as we age. most people, myself included, do well with small amounts of dairy, inc yogurt and cheese. i also do better on goat and sheep dairy products than cow. this is also true for most people who are lactose intolerant and/or have a GI problem like crohns.

i suggest making the scd yogurt. but dont eat a lot in one sitting. ease into it and monitor how it affects you - upset stomach, bloating, gas, etc. those are signs that you're eating too much either in one sitting or throughout the day or your body doesnt tolerate it. you'll have to figure that out.

the only dairy substitute i'd recommend is almond milk.

i agree with osprey101 on this. i've been off my meds for just over a year now, feeling the best i've felt since i was diagnosed which was in 1993, and i owe it all to diet.
Crazy Harry

---------------------------------------------
Crohn's since 1993 (17 yrs old then)
surgery in July '05 - removal of 2 inches at ileum and 8 inches of sigmoid colon (had fistula into bladder)
Nov '05 developed colonic inertia; July '06 told i needed ostomy surgery
began maker's diet in August '06 - now feeling the best ever with no symptoms of colonic inertia and i kept my colon
med free as of 10/31/07


Osprey101
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 12/6/2008 11:21 AM (GMT -7)   
>it is just hard for most of us to believe cos it sounds too simple. we're predisposed at an early age
>that in order to get better you need medicine, surgery, or both.

Let's turn that around, and view it from a historical standpoint. A hundred years ago, the intake of refined sugar was a fraction of what it was today- maybe 5-6 pounds per year, versus 150-170 pounds per year. Corn wasn't so pervasive in the diet, as the vegetable or corn syrup. Wheat was common, but not in the vast quantities that it's consumed today. Moreover, the technology to separate the germ from the wheat wasn't developed, so whole flour was your only choice- and, being whole wheat, it spoiled quickly so it had to be fresh. More importantly, as whole flour has a lower glycemic index, it wasn't the big "sugar rush" that white flour is.

It it little wonder that Crohn's wasn't named until the 1930s, when industrial farming permitted vast quantities of sugar, white flour, rice, and other starchy foods to become pervasive in the diet? Our great-great-grandparents would be in awe at the supermarkets of today, but wouldn't know what to buy! Yogurt- with high fructose corn syrup? Breakfast cereals that consist of little more than fortified wheat and sugar? Peanut butter- with sugar added? They'd want real food- vegetables and bacon and eggs and meat, not these industrial products that are boxed and shelved by corporations.

What's most remarkable about all these diets that have shown to improve one's outlook when diagnosed with Crohn's is that they all rely upon "honest" foods, the sort of stuff that has been around for... centuries. Lutz, Gottschall, Atkins, Rubin- they tell the reader to stop swilling soda and eat something *real*. And when it works, it's met with skepticism because pharm companies (making $2.2 billion a year on Humira) have studies, but nobody will pay for a study on carbohydrate restriction and Crohn's.

That's been Saturday's Rant of the Day. Additional rants are available for $9.95 on CD, DVD, cassette tape, and 8-track.

slew92
New Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 5
   Posted 12/6/2008 3:00 PM (GMT -7)   
i dig the rants, osprey- the more i hear from you all and the more i read and learn about it, the more it makes so much sense. it is quite logical when it's broken down this way. I'm very intrigued and cannot read these books fast enough (which is difficult due to final exams taking place). Thanks again for all of your info, guys. I know I'll have more Q's soon as i make my way through these books.

pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 12/6/2008 9:07 PM (GMT -7)   
But, IBD more than likely goes way farther back then when Dr. Buril Crohn discovered it...King Alfred is often called "Alfred the Great," or "The Scholar-King" for his devotion to learning and literacy. Surprisingly, he did not learn to read until after he became king.
In his lifetime he was successful in defending his kingdom from invasion by the Danish, and captured London in a move that united all the English under his rule. He is therefore considered to be the first King of England.

A biography written by his contemporary, the Welsh scholar Asser, asserts that Alfred suffered a painful, recurrent illness throughout his lifetime. It is now suspected that the scholar-king suffered from Crohn's Disease. He was born in 849 and died in 899.
 
So clearly it isn't diet alone, but as researchers already know, genetics and envrionmental aspects are involved...although IBD is much more prevalent now then ever before.


:)


My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)


Osprey101
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 12/7/2008 1:35 PM (GMT -7)   
It's not diet alone; there are three components required to cause Crohn's (for those that suffer the "infectious disease" flavor, anyway):

1) Presence of infectious agent- probably Klebsiella pneumoniae, as proven by Ebringer at King's College, UK
2) Presence of correct gastric environment- feeding of large quantities of carbohydrates, particularly branched polymeric carbohydrates (starch)
3) Presence of correct genes- 50% concordance rate in homozygotic (identical) twins

That the disease was present long before Crohn and his crew segregated the disorder from intestinal tuberculosis is not in doubt; however, that it could not be identified as an independent malady is very telling. The incidence could not have been very high. Indeed, a disorder with the life impact as Crohn's would have been selected out long, long ago if it were "natural." Disorders that have a substantial life impact will select against those genes. Over the course of tens of thousands of generations, the incidence of that disease would be reduced dramatically. That 60-70 per million suffer from this disorder in the United States implies strongly that there is a lifestyle factor that causes it.

In short, the genes (mainly those that code for bacterial resistance, in the case of Crohn's) have been around for millennia. The introduction to vast quantities of starchy and sugary foods tipped the balance towards inducing an inappropriate gastric environment, fostering the growth of klebsiella. That many sufferers achieve relief in the form of remission via diet indicates that potentially as much as 85% of Crohn's could be caused by infectious disease. But the correct genes must be present, in conjunction with too many sugars and starches.

It has also been demonstrated that all three of these factors can be rectified to provide relief. To wit:

Infectious disease: "Myoconda" triple antibiotic modality. Thought to work on Myocobacterium avium ssp. paratuberculosis; maybe this is actually destroying klebsiella infection in the gut. Of course, the majority of individuals whose Crohn's clear with this treatment have their disease return when they go off therapy. Why? They don't change their diet.

Genetics: Stem cell modality. "Prochymal" can impact the severity of Crohn's disease, probably because a "fresh" set of genes is allowing a proper immune response against the causative organism or organisms, making up for the host's deficiencies.

Gut environment: Dietary modalities. Those that report relief and even remission based on their choice of reducing/eliminating dietary carbohydrates are presumably causing enough of a change that the klebsiella has nothing on which to feed, changing their disease course.

MAP is a red herring. MAP is a secondary infection that attacks the gut and is able to achieve a foothold because of the damage incurred by klebsiella. Other organisms that are normally benign or rarely opportunistic in the gut probably do the same, such as Tropheryma whipplei. This is why MAP is frequently, but not invariably, found in relation to this disease.
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