Crohn's disease and the Maker's Diet

New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
[ << Previous Thread | Next Thread >> ]

gitti
New Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 12/11/2008 7:23 PM (GMT -6)   
Anybody out there experience with the Maker's diet? Does it help? DO those supplements help? Or is it just hype?

Osprey101
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 12/12/2008 1:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Which supplement- the "essential soil organisms"?

The author denies it, but it seems likely he was ultimately helped through carbohydrate restriction. Elaine Gottschall ("Breaking the Vicious Cycle") coached him through his disease; he got better later, and doesn't attribute her work quite so much as he probably should.

EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 12/12/2008 6:48 AM (GMT -6)   
I read the book but bought other brands of probiotics and digestive enzymes--you don't have to buy his. I personally had been using digestive enzymes for YEARS prior to reading Rubin's book, so I simply added them to my son's regimen. I think they have value, as do many folks here. Ditto for probiotics! I think the essential soil organisms probably ARE hype. Someone even posted a warning here once about them--that there may be some not-so-safe organisms included in there and they haven't been studied well enough to understand their potential effects on the gut.

If you are truly interested in going this route, learn every exceptionally healthy eating aspect you can from Rubin's book and then read the book Osprey mentioned, "Breaking the Vicious Cycle". The diets are very, very similar!
Mom to 16 year old son diagnosed in June, 2007.
Omega 3s, digestive enzymes, probiotics, vit. C, calcium w/D3, a good multivitamin and SCD legal yogurt
Started The Maker's Diet in Sept. '07. Gradually learning/using more Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) recipes, too! (cooking challenged)


Osprey101
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 12/12/2008 12:07 PM (GMT -6)   
Another strongly recommended book- "Life Without Bread." It is an English translation of a book written by an Austrian gastroenterologist who has successfully treated a large number of patients with CD and related maladies. The diet is very straightforward, so I'll save you the cover charge: limit total carbohydrates to no more than 72 grams/day. That's it. The data he provides cite an 85% remission rate after three years- a rate identical to that of Atkins, who reported the same thing for his Crohn's patients who were on carbohydrate restriction.

The reason it works so well for at least some people is pretty straightforward, if Ebringer's theory is correct: get the starch out of the diet. Starch is acted upon by klebsiella overgrowth in the gut, which in turn causes the production of an enzyme called pullulanase. This enzyme is a structural mimic of the body's collagen. When your body is sensitized to the proteins produced by klebsiella, it is also sensitized to your own collagen. This collagen is found in- among other places- your intestines. This is how eating too much starch can lead to gut problems. Similarly, your joints are loaded with collagen, explaining why many Crohnies get arthralgia.

And the reason why injectable TNF drugs like Humira and Remicade work? They were originally designed to help shut down the cytokine storm in sepsis. And one of the leading causes of sepsis is Klebsiella pneumoniae infection. The lipopolysaccharide shell of these Gram negative organisms is what sets off the hypovolemic shock, causing death. Research in the 1980s showed that a polyclonal antibody (the abovementioned TNF alpha inhibitors) can greatly reduce mortality in mice injected with E. coli. Somehow that morphed into treating Crohn's patients- now a multi-$billion industry.

But I digress.

CrazyHarry
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 1034
   Posted 12/12/2008 6:17 PM (GMT -6)   
the diet works. i am living proof. do the makers diet or the specific carbohydrate diet. they are similar in a lot respects.

imho, if you do the makers, use sweeteners and bread (grain based foods) very sparingly. if you do the scd, go organic and stay away from artificial sweeteners.

carb ceilings are good. they are tough but it can get you feeling well fast. it takes a lot of will power though. i did an 80 g/d for 3 months then 100 g/d for 1 month. doing that really helped me. the atkins ceiling of 15-25 g/d is way too low and imho should only be used for a short period of time (like 1-3 months) for those losing weight. in all other instances, imho, anything in the 80-100 g/d range is good as it opens up the range of foods a lot more but you still get a lot of benefits.

most of your carbs, ceiling or not, should be from vegetables and fruit.
Crazy Harry

---------------------------------------------
Crohn's since 1993 (17 yrs old then)
surgery in July '05 - removal of 2 inches at ileum and 8 inches of sigmoid colon (had fistula into bladder)
Nov '05 developed colonic inertia; July '06 told i needed ostomy surgery
began maker's diet in August '06 - now feeling the best ever with no symptoms of colonic inertia and i kept my colon
med free as of 10/31/07


Osprey101
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 12/12/2008 6:29 PM (GMT -6)   
Harry, you make some good points. Note that the "ultra low" concentrations of carbs for Atkins that you cite are for induction. They're to throw the patient into ketosis, which is a pretty sudden shock. The idea is that the patient begins weight loss quickly, which provides a metric of success. The patient then titers up (slowly increases) the quantity of carbs until such time that they achieve a steady weight, and they can enjoy some small amount of sugar or starch. Many people settle out at 70-100 grams/day, which- as noted by Lutz- is a fine starting place if you want to skip the induction and just reduce your intake.

In reality, many people may find relief from this disease by ditching grains and potatoes, and then slowly weaning themselves away from sugary junk food, anything to reduce the carbs.

CrazyHarry
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 1034
   Posted 12/13/2008 2:38 PM (GMT -6)   
no matter how you do it, i truly believe that processed foods and refined sugars and grains should be eliminated - crohns or not. grains should be sprouted or complex carbohydrates. sugars should be natural - honey, agave nectar, maple syrup. and both should be used sparingly and in small amounts. that is my opinion based on my experience and research.
Crazy Harry

---------------------------------------------
Crohn's since 1993 (17 yrs old then)
surgery in July '05 - removal of 2 inches at ileum and 8 inches of sigmoid colon (had fistula into bladder)
Nov '05 developed colonic inertia; July '06 told i needed ostomy surgery
began maker's diet in August '06 - now feeling the best ever with no symptoms of colonic inertia and i kept my colon
med free as of 10/31/07


Osprey101
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 227
   Posted 12/14/2008 2:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Agreed, Harry. The 19th will be my 1-year mark on this diet. My blood values are normal, and I've been off prescription drugs for 11 months. No bleeding in at least 3-4 months. Back to exercising, and my weight is exactly where it should be. I can go on caving trips with no discomfort! I am starting to consume more foods that previously were sketchy for me, like cashews.

I believe I am particularly fortunate in that I got diagnosed quickly after I showed obvious signs of illness, and that I started the diet (much against the advice of my physician) 16 days after my endoscopy- the day the biopsy results came in and the nurse called me to inform me I needed to get chest films and skin tests, prepping me for immunomodulation. No TNF inhibitors for me, thank you.

CrazyHarry
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 1034
   Posted 12/14/2008 9:47 AM (GMT -6)   
super cool osprey101. you are very fortunate you found a good diet to do very soon after being diagnosed as most of us, myself included, go the drug route on blind faith of our doctors and are unaware of or dont give credence to diet and natural health methods/alternatives. i know my body took a massive beating from the all drugs i took in about a 14 year period. i am just hoping that now i can diminish or even reverse any long term side effects from all the drugs with what i am doing now.
Crazy Harry

---------------------------------------------
Crohn's since 1993 (17 yrs old then)
surgery in July '05 - removal of 2 inches at ileum and 8 inches of sigmoid colon (had fistula into bladder)
Nov '05 developed colonic inertia; July '06 told i needed ostomy surgery
began maker's diet in August '06 - now feeling the best ever with no symptoms of colonic inertia and i kept my colon
med free as of 10/31/07


Nanners
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 14994
   Posted 12/14/2008 9:51 AM (GMT -6)   
I just want you to know that these diets don't work for everyone. But many have had success with them too. The only way you will know if it works for you or not is to try it. But my understanding is you have to stay very strictly to it for it to work. I live on a low residue diet and it works well for me. JMHO
Been living with Crohn's Disease for 33 years.  Currently on Asacol, Prilosec, Estrace, Prinivil, Diltiazem, Percoset prn for pain, Zofran, Phenergan, Probiotics, and Calcium.  Resections in 2002 and 2005.  Also diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and Osteoarthritis. Currently my Crohns is in remission.


lilturbo
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 298
   Posted 12/14/2008 12:48 PM (GMT -6)   
gitti,

I tried the Makers Diet and though it is a healthy way to eat it did not put me, or keep me, in remission. I bought all of the supplements, detox clay, and followed the diet religiously and was still flaring. I then went to his book, "Restoring your digestive health" and tried his guts and glory program. I was eating his chicken soup for breakfast, lunch and dinner hoping that it would kick me in remission and it didn't. I was desperate because I wanted to believe that I could naturally heal myself without the use of meds.

Unfortunately, I had to come to grips that meds do help, and that I need both meds and healthy eating to stay in remission. Even then, sometimes that's not enough to keep me in remission. I have kept a few things from the makers diet though. I drink goat milk, eat goat yogurt, and drink goat kefir. I also cook with coconut oil. The Makers Diet is healthy (minus the red meat for me), but in my experience won't miraculously "cure" your Crohn's.

Good luck with everything!!!

-Emma
turboemma.blogspot.com/


Peaceandhappiness
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 131
   Posted 3/14/2010 9:10 PM (GMT -6)   
hmmm, I wanted to try detox clay, but I'm nervous to. lol.
-Mom of a preschool boy and teenage girl and wife to a wonderful man.
 
Hypothyroid, newly dx'd Crohn's, Gerd. I love to look for natural ways to heal first, conventional ways second and keep my faith.


spookyh
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 1342
   Posted 3/14/2010 9:54 PM (GMT -6)   
The clay sounds cool. Someone recently mentioned this one: http://www.evenbetternow.com/autism-clay.asp
34 years old, Crohn's disease for 15 of them
Resection of ileocecal valve on 09/22/09
Current Meds: LDN, Pentasa, Effexor XR, Zyrtec
Supplements: 3 kinds of Fish Oil, Multi-Vitamin, Vitamin D, Calcium, Magnesium, Coconut Oil, Garlic Oil, CoQ10, Enzymes
SCD since 12/01/08 - eating Stage 3 foods


busycrohnsmom
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 40
   Posted 7/8/2011 9:01 AM (GMT -6)   
I have been researching the carbohydrate connection - I feel that the SCD is too restrcitive for me in many ways (to really stick to) but the carb ceiling really intrigues me and seems doable. I think I will lose weight too because breads justseem to bloat me and make me miserable (although i love them!) I'm curious if anyone knows how specific you need to get in counting carbs to maintain a ceiling of around 80-100. Obviously you will count any crackers, breads and cereals, etc. if they are eaten. It's easy for packaged foods with nutritional labeling but seems to me it gets more complex with natural foods like fruits and veggies. What would be a good source for that type of information? Today, I ate soft cooked oats with a tsp. of honey, a few dried cranberries, and a handful of chopped walnuts for breakfast and realized already am at 28 grams for the day. Wow!
Taking no pharmaceuticals presently after allergic response to Remicade - supplements including Primal Defense probiotics, turmeric and slippery elm to treat inflammation, gigh doses of Fish Oil, and Vit. D. Interested in and working more on diet for symptom control... Have one great husband and 6 great kids ages 5-17, including two sets of boy/girl fraternal twins!

downgarden
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 73
   Posted 7/9/2011 1:52 AM (GMT -6)   
Im like Harry a living proof. I went zero carbs for three months and now im under 30-60 carbs/day.
Zero carbs is not dangerous (ESKIMOES did it 9 months a year).

LIL TURBO- If the diet didnt work for you did you try to exclude anythings? I couldnt take 24 hour goat yoghurt or even butter and as soon as i quit these my improvement started.

Busycrohnsmom- this is like eating pure sugar, to be able to eat low carb you have to change your mindset about what food is. You would starve eating 70 g day on that diet. http://www.thecaloriecounter.com/ is a good source to find nutritional value.
You will need to eat loads of fat (which is good for you) but start slowly to let the body adjust.
Good low carb sources of fat: avocado, nuts (preferable shopped and soaked almond or macadamia), butter, scd coconut yoghurt, entrecote, bacon, salmon, makrell, eel, fishoil, butter/cream/full fat milk (if you dont have candida).
You can eat any amount of above ground veggies,but the roots and fruits you gotta keep to a minimum/zero.
You cant go low carb without going high fat! I tried and I starved, fat is good for us, not processed but real natural fat. It took me YEARS to accept that its the carbs that makes me sick and not the fat. Realising that and I was symptom free in no time.
You will be in full health soon.
Crohns of mouth,and all intestine at 22, daily bloody D,, extremely underweight, bipolar disorder, yeast infection, backpain, list goes on... no medication worked.

Mars 2011 I started eating ZERO carbs a day.
Within a day my D disappeared, ate only raw salmon for 3 months.
June I started eating 20-70 carbs a day made up of green vegetables.
Not a SINGLE symptom left.

tobijah.com

busycrohnsmom
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2005
Total Posts : 40
   Posted 7/9/2011 5:32 AM (GMT -6)   
downgarden, you are inspiring and I'm so glad you are now symptom free. Thank you for the tips and I'm going to have bacon for breakfast today! Eating more fat does seem counter to everything I've ever known about weight and Crohns... but I am willing to learn and do this. I have the SCD book, but think I will buy the LWB book too, since there are so many references to it on the forum. Any other good references?
 
One other question for anyone out there - I really am very busy at home with my family and my part-time job, plus homeschooling, so is there ANY commercial yoghurt that is half-way ok for consumption? It would make my life easier if I felt I could purchase that one thing from the store on a regualr basis. I know I need to incorporate more of the good yoghurt into my diet and my family's overall, but I'm not very consistent with making it... I have several natural foods stores, plus Wegman's, Whole Foods, and Trader Joe's not too far from my home, in case any one of those carries anything that would do me ok.

Taking no pharmaceuticals presently after allergic response to Remicade - supplements including Primal Defense probiotics, turmeric and slippery elm to treat inflammation, gigh doses of Fish Oil, and Vit. D. Interested in and working more on diet for symptom control... Have one great husband and 6 great kids ages 5-17, including two sets of boy/girl fraternal twins!

Roni
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 2480
   Posted 7/9/2011 9:29 AM (GMT -6)   
The benefit of going carb free (even temporarily) is to stop feeding bad bacteria. I did the makers diet for a few months, fairly strictly, and I found it helpful. It doesn't cure, but it helped me stop going to the bathroom more than 30 times a day. I added the GOL primal defense about a year after I started the diet and found them even more helpful than just the diet alone.

I'm a big advocate of the Maker's diet. I haven't done much of the sprouted grains because they were just too painful with my stricture and inflammation, but I have enjoyed the fermented wheat pancakes (basically just soaked wheat overnight) and even cut them open and used them for sandwiches too.

The other thing I don't do with the Maker's diet is the unpasturized dairy—it's just too risky, considering the MAP bacteria theory. From what I remember, CrazyHarry does a combination of SCD and MD—I think that's a good way to go, diet-wise.

I think many diets could help CD, if they inhibit or reduce feeding bad bacteria, encourage healing and are anti-inflammatory and nutritious. I have to say that even if diet helps symptoms, I think it's a bad idea to be completely med free. I can't remember talking to anyone who had a completely clean scope just being on diet. It's rare to have a completely clean scope with meds. lol. I think diet and meds and natural supplements should all be considered in treating CD.

Good luck!

downgarden
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 73
   Posted 7/9/2011 10:02 AM (GMT -6)   
Harry
Im completely med free and no symptoms. Now you cant say never talked to anyone.
Id say Im more than 100%, since 100% is based on average carb junkies (ACJ) who sleeps 9 hours a day and wake up tired. I run half a mile a day and sleep 5 hours a night waking up fully energized.


busycrohnsmom
Going high fat has to be done while lowering carbs, otherwise youll get extremely fat extremely fast.
Going to high on animal protein and not enough veggies can give symptoms. Adding spinach, brussel sprouts, asparagus, eggplant or cucumber is important so that so balance the acid production of meat/fat.
It will keep your joints from being inflammed and take away acidity in stool. (took me three months to figure out)

Another good source is a guy called crohnsboy you can easily find his website on google.
Then there are tons of people.I only listed some on my website.

about the yoghurt
First time it takes about an hour to make, secound time 20 minutes third time 5 minutes, because you learn how to make it. Its really easy.
For example making one batch in a yoghurt maker if eating one a day that is 7 days of youghurt for the exchange of 5 minute work. And NO there is no commercial yoghurt anywhere that is legal,commercial yoghurt will all make you worse.

Having 6 kids and fighting like this I gotta say you´re awesome
Crohns of mouth,and all intestine at 22, daily bloody D,, extremely underweight, bipolar disorder, yeast infection, backpain, list goes on... no medication worked.

Mars 2011 I started eating ZERO carbs a day.
Within a day my D disappeared, ate only raw salmon for 3 months.
June I started eating 20-70 carbs a day made up of green vegetables.
Not a SINGLE symptom left.

tobijah.com

Ankylos
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 7/9/2011 7:44 PM (GMT -6)   
busycrohnsmom said...

One other question for anyone out there - I really am very busy at home with my family and my part-time job, plus homeschooling, so is there ANY commercial yoghurt that is half-way ok for consumption?


I have found I can consume Fage right out of the carton, with no ill effects, no restriction on quantity. I also use Fage for my starter culture.

Initially, I started with the SCD, and cranked down on carbohydrates over time; I found that grains were the very worst juju of any sort. So, now I eat mostly meat, with yogurt + berries + bananas + honey. No problems at all, going on 3-1/2 years.

HSand
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2011
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 10/19/2011 2:43 AM (GMT -6)   
This is very inspiring reading for me. I have been knowing the SCD diet for 10 years now and i have been reading life without bread 5 years ago.

I just was not ready at the time to restrict my diet.

However I have just recently startet living after the Life without bread principle or similar to that (1 of august 2011) I have been reading "The Primal Blueprint" by Mark Sisson and am now doing a diet which incorporates different aspects of both the Life without bread and Primal Blueprint.

I avoid bread, potatoes, rice, sugar, corn.

I eat vegetables - also root vegetables. Lots of eggs in the weekends and meat and vegetables for normal everyday dinner.
At lunch I eat from the food at my works canteen but only meat, vegetables and eggs.

In the last 3 weeks I have been eating flax seed bread for breakfast on work days with butter and cheese. http://lowcarbdiets.about.com/od/breads/r/flaxbasicfoc.htm

The primal Blueprint says 100-150 g. of carbs a day all to come from vegetables, nuts and seeds which I think should be okay when I dont eat other kinds of carbs.

For snacks I eat nuts, cream with frozen berries, a piece of dark chocolate or freshly shredded apples with chopped almonds, a bit of chopped dark chocolate (70%) and whipped cream.

I dont do the snacking on apples and berries much, besides occasional in my weekends.

I just dont seem to get any noticeable breakthrough on controlling my diarrhoea besides that the 2 years on remicade has brought the frequency down to 2.

I have been sick for 17 years now with crohn's disease and all the time have had 4-5 times to toilet a day. Much bad smell and very much liquid.
I did 10 years without meds. but had to do something because my intestines was worsening to a degree that I could not expect to live a (normal) life any further without action.

Only last 2 years when having remicade treatment have I been much better gaining 16 kg. of weight but my bad stomach hasnt disappeared. Better but not disappeared

Should I just continue doing what I am doing and have patience?

Im getting a little frustrated here. Any guidance would be much appreciated.

Would the Remicade slow my healing process on a low carb diet?

In the beginning after incorporating this new way of life I did however fell better energy and i have tried to wake up after 6 hours of sleep and feeling more rested than I did before after 9 hours. I did feel that i gained strength in the beginning but now I feel like I have weakened. I would so much want to get really active again and do workouts and build muscles. But 6 month on Imurel (Worst drug ever taken) destroyed my really good condition and made me feel really really bad also worsening my diarrhoea so I have stopped taking this in July without noticing my doctor because i didnt get any response when I told the nurse that i suddenly had stomach pain very unusual to me. And he did not take it serious that my liver count was quite high. Last week I got a letter that my liver count is now back to normal again (Surprise) I dont eat your crabby medicine anymore.

Have anyone got experience with flax seed bread? Lately I had some cramping that I never experienced before. But at the same time I could connect it to eating either bread or rice the night before because I was invited to dinner.
Could it be so that bread or rice freaks my body out more than ever because I dont eat it anymore than once a month or so now.

Dont know what I want from this post actually.

Just annoying that i dont get results fast like somebody does.

I have been ignoring the yoghurt after trying to make it for 14 days but it kind of makes me angry and annoyed when I eat it.

Never had any milk because it upsets my stomach badly.

Post Edited (HSand) : 10/19/2011 5:38:54 AM (GMT-6)


Roni
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 2480
   Posted 10/19/2011 8:29 AM (GMT -6)   
Seeds can definitely be an irritant to our intestines. Maybe avoid the seeds for a while.
Also, I didn't quite get how long you've been on your diet, but if you're not seeing any improvement (after several weeks, say) then try something different.

I find gluten free/dairy free quite helpful when I'm flaring very badly, too.
Co-Moderator for Crohn's Disease and Epilepsy forums.
Crohn's Disease since the 1990s.
Close family member has had epilepsy for more than 45 years.
New Topic Post Reply Printable Version
Forum Information
Currently it is Wednesday, April 23, 2014 5:50 AM (GMT -6)
There are a total of 2,108,608 posts in 234,333 threads.
View Active Threads


Who's Online
This forum has 149064 registered members. Please welcome our newest member, fireronnie123.
351 Guest(s), 15 Registered Member(s) are currently online.  Details
CatfishBilly, NextAdventure, PeterDisAbelard., hateuc, Inspiredby3, Whatx2, opugirl, weirswalker, getting by, Levi, Faithmac, Pluot, ProblemsAreOpportunities, BillyBob1983, Louise74


Follow HealingWell.com on Facebook  Follow HealingWell.com on Twitter  Follow HealingWell.com on Pinterest  Follow HealingWell.com on YouTube
Advertisement
Advertisement

©1996-2014 HealingWell.com LLC  All rights reserved.

Advertise | Privacy Policy & Disclaimer