IV problem - likely hospital error - legal advice?

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Wolfie40
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Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 947
   Posted 5/14/2009 6:00 PM (GMT -7)   
As many of you know, I had resection surgery in Feb. of this year. When I was in pre-op they numbed my hand with novicain and put my IV in . Just as she was about finished I felt a sting and said OW! She said your okay.  On day two in the hospital I had my IV go bad. My hand swelled up and my fingers got numb. The nurse said that my vein was infiltrated and need to be changed. Okay, they changed it and then on the last day they removed it. Well a few days after I was home the vein that was infiltrated was still swollen and painful and I was losing feeling in my fingers. I called and got into my GP doctor. He said that he has seen this and that I should hold warm compresses on it and it should go away. Well, it has gotton a little better, but my vein is still rock hard and red. It hurts once in a while and I still get a tingle feeling in my fingers.
I went and saw my GI doc last week and I said hey can you look at my hand and tell me what you think. I said I think that there might be something in there. He agreed and said lets get an xray. Well, my nurse called today and said that I have a foreign matter in my vein and that I need to see a hand specialist and have it surgically removed. She said it was a metal piece.
Has anyone ever had this happen to them and can tell me what they are going to do. It really sucks that this happend in the first place, but I understand that we are human and ther eis a chance for error. I had to use all my vacation up for my surgery and now with this I don't know how long it will take and how much work I will miss along with loss of pay.
 
Help!
Wolfie

Post Edited By Moderator (Ides) : 5/14/2009 8:40:57 PM (GMT-6)


Ides
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2003
Total Posts : 7077
   Posted 5/14/2009 7:40 PM (GMT -7)   
It is very possible that they will be able to remove the item in same-day surgery. That would mean only one day of missed work. However, you might not be able to use that hand for a number of days during the recovery stage. It really is a matter of where the item is located.

Since this was almost certainly an error on the part of the hospital staff, they should do several things:
1) Pay all costs associated with removing the object. For example, the hand surgeon, OR costs, anesthesiology costs, etc.
2) The should compensate you for your missed days at work.

I would make certain that the hospital agrees to these things before they proceed. If course, that means spending time on the phone and more than likely at the hospital making your desires known.

We have some legal types here. I hope they read your post and offer advice.
Moderator Crohn's Disease Forum
CD, Ankylosing Spondylitis, lupus, small fiber peripheral neuropathy, avascular necrosis, peripheral artery disease, degenerative disc disease, and a host of other medical problems.
 


Ides
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Nov 2003
Total Posts : 7077
   Posted 5/14/2009 7:41 PM (GMT -7)   
Wolfie - Hope you don't mind but I changed your subject heading in hopes of getting more people to read your post. I wanted to attract our legal eagles.
Moderator Crohn's Disease Forum
CD, Ankylosing Spondylitis, lupus, small fiber peripheral neuropathy, avascular necrosis, peripheral artery disease, degenerative disc disease, and a host of other medical problems.
 


Wolfie40
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 947
   Posted 5/14/2009 8:47 PM (GMT -7)   
I don't mind. Thank you!
I'm not out to sue the hospital, I just want the problem fixed at there cost. Any idea who to talk with at the hospital?
I hope that it is just a simple out patient surgery and that they can get it out.
When the nurse told me, I just started to laugh, just seems I have the worst luck. She said wow at least you have a sense of humor about it.
I just want to stay away from a hospital for a while. It's pretty bad when you know all the nurses names on all 3 shifts. lol
Thanks
Wolfie :-)
Diagnosed with Crohns in 2001
First and hopefully last Ileocecectomy 2/18/2009

Medications: Asacol, Folic Acid, Multivitamin, Dbl. Calcium, Probiotics, Protonix, Monthly B-12 injections.

Living a Great life with my Wife and my two Chocolate Labs
Hunter & Hailey.
I love them dearly.


Wolfie40
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 947
   Posted 5/15/2009 3:31 PM (GMT -7)   
Wow! I would have thought someone would have some insight on this. This has never happened to anyone?
My wife the hospital and explained what happened, that person forwarded her to a Risk Specialist. He had both her work number and home number and he called the home number. She said that she will try to get a hold of him again.
Like I said I just want this out of my hand at there expence and not mine.
I know that there are some nurses here and would really like there input as to what it is in my vein. i do know that it is a METAL piece.
Thanks
Diagnosed with Crohns in 2001
First and hopefully last Ileocecectomy 2/18/2009

Medications: Asacol, Folic Acid, Multivitamin, Dbl. Calcium, Probiotics, Protonix, Monthly B-12 injections.

Living a Great life with my Wife and my two Chocolate Labs
Hunter & Hailey.
I love them dearly.


FallColors
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2007
Total Posts : 1220
   Posted 5/15/2009 4:00 PM (GMT -7)   

I am so sorry this happened!  Sounds nasty!!

I'm not a legal beagle, but here is what I would do.  I would go to the hospital administrator's office tell them say I need immediate attention.  Tell them what happened and what I want -- the hand taken care of NOW and at no charge for the procedure and aftercare (drugs, therapy, etc.).  They will probably be paralyzed with fear of a lawsuit and want to contact their lawyers.  Unfortunately this will take time and I would want it taken care of right away!  I would say that I need immediate care or I will go elsewhere, get care, and then sue them.  If they say no or wait -- I would walk out the door and call a lawyer.  Then I would no delay to go to a differnet place to get it taken care of.  My hand is more important.  If the hospital says they will do what I want ASAP, it must be signed and in writing ASAP.  I will not sign anything that says I waive the right to sue them later if it turns out there is permanent damage, they try to charge me money, etc.

Other may have better ideas.  Let us know what happens.
Diagnosed with Crohn's in early 2007.  Several peri-rectal abscesses and two fistulae with setons.  Allergic to Remicade and Humira.  Currently on 6MP, and vitamins D and B-12.


CrohnieToo
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 9448
   Posted 5/15/2009 4:28 PM (GMT -7)   
I had a somewhat similar experience except that it was "just" vein scarring, hardening and a clot due to improperly diluted medication.

Why bother w/an attorney or threatening an attorney? Sheesh! You've taken the right step. Your wife called the hospital and has started the ball rolling. I would have started w/the Patient Advocate forgetting that they do have a Risk Management team as well. Firmness and diplomacy will get you what you want whereas getting all huffy puffy and threatening will end up w/your having to hire an attorney to get any satisfaction.
Some people are like Slinkies... Not really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down a flight of stairs.


Bammer
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2008
Total Posts : 381
   Posted 5/15/2009 5:04 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi, Wolfie, Had surgery Monday, released this morning and have only been home long enough to walk around the house a few times. Have not had a bowel movement yet but it will happen today? Your post caught my attention and the only one I am going to read right now, a little light headed. Will read more thoroughly later and other posts since I've been gone. Sorry to hear your complications, hope you get answers and releif. My whole experience was an eye opener on the overcrowdedness of the hospitals, the disease itself, the use of pain medication and am thankfull every day how fortunate I am. Sure there will be more later.

55 yr. old F dx. CD 07/07
Was on prednisone for three months but no medication for next 11 months.
Started weekly methotrexate injections 09/22/08.
Sigmoidectomy scheduled for May 11/2009


Becoming undone
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 927
   Posted 5/15/2009 5:59 PM (GMT -7)   
Wow! Thank you for posting this...it reminds us to be ever vigilant. Usually where there is one defect, there are likely to be others...In times like this, manufacturers, hospitals and everyone else down the line tries to cut corners...Not to create fear or frenzy, but I've worked in in the labs (compliance QA/QC).

Sometimes, especially at times such as these, they all try to get things a bit cheaper, do less testing, and yes...some even "dry lab" the numbers...for those of you who know and have worked in manufacturing...wink wink, a lot a companies do this and so do those who oversee it if there is enough "pressure"nono ...think peanuts ...(okay, I Never, Ever did this...my job was never that important...and if they're willing to skirt the laws skull , then they probably are not that good of an employer anyway)...

It is people like you who keep these companies honest...they must pay the piper for not producing and or purchasing a quality product...Hospitals don't want to get sued...so hospital doesn't buy from bad maker...bad maker wants to continue sales...so must ensure quality and compliance...
"The earth laughs in flowers"


Dagger
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1522
   Posted 5/15/2009 6:21 PM (GMT -7)   
I had my hand blow up until it looked like a Mickey Mouse hand, but fortunately, the swelling went away within 36 hours. Everything returned to normal.

You might want to consult with an attorney just to cover your bases. The consultation should be free. In my (very limited) experience, the attorney will let you know what you should expect from the hospital and how to proceed. Right now, I don't think there's any money in this for a lawyer but a decent lawyer can guide you on how to protect your legal rights especially if there are any complications in the future.

(For the skeptics out there "decent lawyer" is not an oxymoron, there are some helpful lawyers!)

FitzyK23
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 4219
   Posted 5/15/2009 7:46 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi! I am hopefully a helpful soon to be lawyer. I think you are taking the right steps by starting with the hospital. If all you want is to have it fixed, those are the people to work through. The only trouble is, they are likely to have their doctors do it - are you comfortable with that?

The big phrase to keep in mind when dealing with possible malpractice is "standard of care." Something has to deviate from the standard of care for the hospital to be liable. Then, there is "negligence per se" that basically means something so obviously wrong that it just shouldn't have happened. I think your case is more of the later. Any idiot knows that an IV should not result in metal in someone's hand. As far as the standard of care, it is obvious something went wrong, the question is, should they have known how wrong. Is it common for a vein to blow? yes. Did your symptoms look like a vein blow? I don't know. If a doctor of common sense in your situation would not have acted differently then they may not be AS liable. However, because it is obviously something that shouldn't have happened, they should at a minimum be responisble for fixing your hand.

Other options that you could seek if this did go through the legal system: not having to pay as much for your initial surgery (you could argue you had complications/had to stay longer because of this unforeseen metal piece), pain and suffering, lost wages, etc.

I think you are starting out doing this right. And as others said, the first consultation with a lawyer is usually free. If you do hire one, you could find someone to work on contingency and they take a percent of what money you get, if any.

Good luck!
27 Year old married female law student (last year!!). Diagnosed w/ CD 4 years ago, IBS for over 10 years before that, which was probably the CD. I am sort of lactose intollerant too but can handle anything cultured and do well w/ lactose pills and lactaid. For crohns I am currently on Pentasa 4 pills/4x day and hysociamine prn. I also have bad acid reflux and have been on PPI's since age 13. I have been through prilosec, prevacid, and nexium. Currently I am on Protonix in the morning and Zantac at night.  I take xanax prn for situational anxiety (aka no easy bathroom access). 


Wolfie40
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 947
   Posted 5/16/2009 4:57 AM (GMT -7)   
Well, I typed a long response and it went to the login page and vanished so I'll shorten it up.
Thanks for all the replies!
Does anyone have any idea what might be metal? Needle,catheter.
I don't want to sue them as I really liked the hospital and the staff. Mistakes happen and I'm not upset. I want this removed without any long term complications.
 
 
Diagnosed with Crohns in 2001
First and hopefully last Ileocecectomy 2/18/2009

Medications: Asacol, Folic Acid, Multivitamin, Dbl. Calcium, Probiotics, Protonix, Monthly B-12 injections.

Living a Great life with my Wife and my two Chocolate Labs
Hunter & Hailey.
I love them dearly.


Zanne
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 3763
   Posted 5/16/2009 6:45 AM (GMT -7)   
I've had more veins infiltrate than I can count, but never had anything left in my body from it. So I will start with that. They should absolutely fix the problem. But as far as suing them, which you say you are not interested in anyway, I just wanted to tell you what happened when we consulted a lawyer or two about suing a surgeon. My Husband had back surgery, the surgeon made a mistake that went unrecognized until after he was released from the hospital. I had to rush him back with in hours of discharge, where he was re-admitted and had to have 2 more follow up surgeries and spend the next 10 days flat on his back. He couldn't get out of bed to go to the bathroom, he couldn't raise the head of the bed up to eat. We really didn't want to sue, but his mother insisted that we consult some lawyers. We were told that it was almost impossible to win these cases and not to bother. I don't know how much evidence people have in the cases you hear about on the news, but for every one of those there must be thousands like us.

So unless you are really PO'd, just have them fix the issue and move on. It isn't worth the emotional toll. All I wanted was some acknowledgment that there was a mistake made, but I never got it.
Suzanne

CD 20 years officially, 30 unofficially. 3 resections '93, '95 '97
Managing with strict low residue diet, keeping symptoms to a minimum. All test show small amount of ulceration, still have occasional blockages. But still have a great time with my 2 daughters and husband!


Prednisone, 6MP,Prevacid, B12 shots, Bentyl, Xifaxan.....


Wolfie40
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 947
   Posted 5/19/2009 3:56 PM (GMT -7)   
Well the wife talked with the risk member and he said that according to the x-ray report that it was 1.3cm from the site. I never even talked to the Radiologist, how could he know where the IV was? I'm really P'OD that these darn doctors stick up for each other. All I want is this piece of metal taken out of my hand and lost time paid for by the hospital that did it. The risk memeber said it must have happened somewhere else,yet right thats why my hand blew up like a baloon and two days home from hospital I went to my primary to look at it and even called my surgeon about it and she said to hold warm compress on it and it might take a while to go away. Well 4 months later and its still there.
Any advise?
Diagnosed with Crohns in 2001
First and hopefully last Ileocecectomy 2/18/2009

Medications: Asacol, Folic Acid, Multivitamin, Dbl. Calcium, Probiotics, Protonix, Monthly B-12 injections.

Living a Great life with my Wife and my two Chocolate Labs
Hunter & Hailey.
I love them dearly.


janicea
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 350
   Posted 5/19/2009 4:27 PM (GMT -7)   
I'd call the CEO's office or the chief at the hospital. Explain you're getting the run around. Document the conversation. If you live near, and it's convienent, I'd go in and stand in the door and wait to speak with him... but that's me. It sounds like they're trying to escape the blame, so you don't sue them. sometimes putting a human face together with a human face gets things moving. I'd go straight to the top of the hospital. It's not like you're asking for anything except to get out what they put in. that's way reasonable. good luck.
strictures, crohn's, adhesions, endo
just started on LDN, allergic to pentasa and 5ASA's. I'm taking Boswellia Serrata (works!) Just came off Xifaxan. Making 24 hour yogurt (FUN!)


nawlinscate
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 656
   Posted 5/19/2009 8:33 PM (GMT -7)   
Several days after my resection, the hand with my IV blew up. I was too doped up to notice--and none of the doctors or nurses (who were in and out of my room constantly) noticed it, either. The person who noticed it was the hospital orderly who'd come to change my sheets! She called anaesthesia, and they came up and took out and replaced the IV. Cheerily on morphine, I was enchanged with what I called my "baby hand" (pudgy and without knuckles). The swelling went down within 24 hours. Reading your post was a really scary wake-up call. This seems to happen often enough that friends and relatives should be advised to check the patient's IV site whenever they visit, to make sure it isn't swelling up.
Definitely work through the hospital--and fast. If you handle it properly, you won't need an attorney. If they respond by trying to stonewall you or deny responsibility, obtain legal counsel. Many attorneys will handle a case like yours on a contingency basis. Good luck!

ski bum
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 451
   Posted 5/19/2009 9:13 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi Wolfie. I'm a nurse and an attorney. I have worked in Risk Management and now manage medical malpractice claims for an insurance company. I recommend consulting with a hand surgeon, as your nurse suggested, get the problem taken care of, recover, and then decide if you want to pursue a claim against the hospital. A claim doesn't have to be a lawsuit. You can file a claim and pursue your monetary damages (out of pocket expenses, time off of work..) and "pain and suffering" without an attorney. I think CrohnieToo gave you great advice - don't threaten a lawsuit at this point. The claims consultants in the Risk Management Dept aren't worried about threats of lawsuits and getting attorneys involved. It's what we do everyday. The statute of limitations to file a lawsuit in the US is two years (at least in Michigan - it may vary state to state). So you have time.

As far as what the metal object is, the only thing I can think of is the needle that is first inserted into the vein that's inside the IV catheter. A piece of that may have broken off. It could have lodged 1.3 cm from the site. But I've never heard of this happening.

If you live in the states and don't have insurance, then that's a whole different matter. In that case, you would likely want to work with the Risk Management Dept to get the procedure done at the hospital's expense.

Good luck. I hope you get that thing out of there soon! SB
50 y/o F. CD dx'd Aug 05. Initially on Pentasa, then Imuran 125 mg. Started Humira (very reluctantly) on 10/24/07. Ileocolectomy 4/08. Back on Pentasa as maintenance.


Wolfie40
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 947
   Posted 5/20/2009 4:06 AM (GMT -7)   
ski bum said...
Hi Wolfie. I'm a nurse and an attorney. I have worked in Risk Management and now manage medical malpractice claims for an insurance company. I recommend consulting with a hand surgeon, as your nurse suggested, get the problem taken care of, recover, and then decide if you want to pursue a claim against the hospital. A claim doesn't have to be a lawsuit. You can file a claim and pursue your monetary damages (out of pocket expenses, time off of work..) and "pain and suffering" without an attorney. I think CrohnieToo gave you great advice - don't threaten a lawsuit at this point. The claims consultants in the Risk Management Dept aren't worried about threats of lawsuits and getting attorneys involved. It's what we do everyday. The statute of limitations to file a lawsuit in the US is two years (at least in Michigan - it may vary state to state). So you have time.

As far as what the metal object is, the only thing I can think of is the needle that is first inserted into the vein that's inside the IV catheter. A piece of that may have broken off. It could have lodged 1.3 cm from the site. But I've never heard of this happening.

If you live in the states and don't have insurance, then that's a whole different matter. In that case, you would likely want to work with the Risk Management Dept to get the procedure done at the hospital's expense.

Good luck. I hope you get that thing out of there soon! SB

 

Thanks Skibum. The real problem is that the Radiologist who I never saw stated that it was 1.3cm from the IV site. How could he possible know where the IV was?According to my wife the Risk member was being a jerk, my wife was calm and not yelling but just asking what they do about these things. He said that he needs to evaluate the case and talk to the person that put the IV in. How is the IV woman going to remember my name, she must do at least a dozen IV's a day. I think it is the Radiologist lying to protect the hospital, which is wrong.

My wife is going to consult an attorney and see what they recommend to do next. I don't want to do that but I believe they are leaving me no choice.

I have insurance and my deductable is paid so there is no out of pocket expense other than the time I would need off of work which is unknown at this point.

I get a kick out of what the risk member said. He said that the metal must have been in there from some other time and than this IV must of aggravated it. The thing is even if that was the only place I have had IV's was at that hospital. What nurse would put a IV in a bulging hard vein?

Sorry! I'm just really angry. You try to be nice and do the right thing and you get sh#t on. It's not right!!!!


Diagnosed with Crohns in 2001
First and hopefully last Ileocecectomy 2/18/2009

Medications: Asacol, Folic Acid, Multivitamin, Dbl. Calcium, Probiotics, Protonix, Monthly B-12 injections.

Living a Great life with my Wife and my two Chocolate Labs
Hunter & Hailey.
I love them dearly.

Post Edited (Wolfie40) : 5/20/2009 5:20:40 AM (GMT-6)


PSA
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 498
   Posted 5/20/2009 4:08 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Wolfie

I hope you are feeling much better today. Take care and keep us posted.
45 years Male Attorney
Diagnosed UC October 1989
 
Had two stage J Pouch Surgery Nov 2005; Take Down March 2006
Complications after surgery - Incisional Hernia and Ano Fistulas
 
"There are only two ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle: Albert Einstein
 
"What you are aware of you are in control of; what you are not aware of is in control of you."
 


Wolfie40
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 947
   Posted 5/20/2009 4:23 AM (GMT -7)   
Here's a question Skibum. Would it be better to explain the situation to my insurance company and see what they say? I'm sure they would not want to pay. Let the Inusrance co. and the Hospital battle it out.
The problem might be that the insurance co won't pay for my treatment.
Diagnosed with Crohns in 2001
First and hopefully last Ileocecectomy 2/18/2009

Medications: Asacol, Folic Acid, Multivitamin, Dbl. Calcium, Probiotics, Protonix, Monthly B-12 injections.

Living a Great life with my Wife and my two Chocolate Labs
Hunter & Hailey.
I love them dearly.


Zanne
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 3763
   Posted 5/20/2009 10:44 AM (GMT -7)   
Wolfie that is exactly what happened to my husband as I posted above. The surgeon denied all responsibility. It had to have happened at another time! Lets see, you JUST performed spinal surgery, my husband has a spinal leak, but its been there for lord knows how long and just now shows up upon discharge! If we weren't in different parts of the country, at different hospitals, I would swear we had the same surgeons and hospitals denying all responsibilities. It seems to be the MO of these places. But seriously, I do hope you can get things straightened out and you are on the way to feeling better soon.
Suzanne

CD 20 years officially, 30 unofficially. 3 resections '93, '95 '97
Managing with strict low residue diet, keeping symptoms to a minimum. All test show small amount of ulceration, still have occasional blockages. But still have a great time with my 2 daughters and husband!


Prednisone, 6MP,Prevacid, B12 shots, Bentyl, Xifaxan.....


Becoming undone
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 927
   Posted 5/20/2009 1:45 PM (GMT -7)   
Wolfie: I talked to my nurse yesterday (the one who comes to give me the Cimzia shot...she's an RN)...anyhoo, she stated, that situations like this HAVE happened before. She stated that is why all nurses(at least in AZ) have to chart the status of the Line on insertion and removal. They must state whether it was the line was intact, bent, etc.

Keep us posted...
"The earth laughs in flowers"


CrohnsPatient
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 314
   Posted 5/20/2009 2:29 PM (GMT -7)   
Your dr that sent you for the x-ray would have told the radiologist what you were being xrayed for or the radiologists wouldnt really know what to expect from the get go....


Not to mention if this was a piece of the needle part of the IV...then I would assume that would be a shipping problem or manufacturing problem, i dont see the needle breaking inside of your hand, in which case I dont see the hospital being liable at all.

ski bum
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 451
   Posted 5/20/2009 2:34 PM (GMT -7)   
Hey Wolfie.  I recommend making an appointment with the hand surgeon now.  It's not your responsibility at this point to determine the cause of the problem.  You need treatment.  If you wait for the risk manager to investigate the claim, you will have a sore hand for quite a while.  You're right that the nurse likely won't remember inserting and/or removing your IV.  We defend medical malpractice cases by the medical record and the habit, custom and routine of the health care providers.  When you provide your insurance information to the hand surgeon, simply provide your insurance card.  You don't have to go into a long explanation that you think the hospital is liable.... If you file a claim NOW against the hospital, your insurance company may deny coverage, pending that resolution.  If you ultimately file a claim against the hospital (after your treatment), your insurance company may pursue reimbursement (subrogation) from the hospital.  A lawsuit often takes two years to reach a resolution and sometimes we still don't know what actually caused the damages. 
 
50 y/o F. CD dx'd Aug 05. Initially on Pentasa, then Imuran 125 mg. Started Humira (very reluctantly) on 10/24/07. Ileocolectomy 4/08. Back on Pentasa as maintenance.


CrohnsPatient
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2008
Total Posts : 314
   Posted 5/20/2009 2:37 PM (GMT -7)   
Why would the IV therapist/nurse not know your name if you say you know all the nurses on all 3 shifts? Just curious. was that meant as a figure of speech?
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