chrohn's and copenhegen-chewing tobacco

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chico41
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Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 135
   Posted 5/31/2009 9:28 PM (GMT -7)   
here is a good one.  I have been in the hospital now for 26 days for a blockage to the small intestine.  when i was addmitted the first thing they say ask is, do u smoke or chew.  and i say yes to chewing.  Doctors of course are going to tell you to quit them both.  Dah.  the ? i have is does anyone know for a fact that chewing is bad for a person with chrohn's?  i have been argueing the fact with the wife since i have been in the hosptal.  I have not eatn anything since the 8th of May.  All i.v fluids.  I have been chewing in the hosptal all along.  i had my part of my small intestine removed may 27th with great results.  the reason for removing part of the small is due to inflamation or blockage to 17 centimeters in my small intestine, which is hocked up to my J-Pouch.  i have told my wife that is the only thing i have left to enjoy while in the hospital.  she says it is bad for chrohn's ppll.  i say not.  If i knew for a fact that is does i would quit in a heart beat. any advice is better then no advice.  i haveother threads to read about my crappy journey. thanks for listening to complaining  hospital is driving me crazy er

TookieWilliams
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 37
   Posted 6/1/2009 12:12 AM (GMT -7)   
Nicotine stimulats and irritates the intestines, FACT! Stop man, read the crohns sections on wikipedia.

BeeSting
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 392
   Posted 6/1/2009 1:01 AM (GMT -7)   
I used nicotine gum to quit smoking years ago. I got increased Crohns symptoms as bad inflammation and obstructions. As soon as I stopped chewing nicorette I got way much better. I wholeheartedly echo TookieWilliams.

Jordan59
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 39
   Posted 6/1/2009 6:17 AM (GMT -7)   
I chew Skoal.  I asked my GI if chewing a lot would aggravate my Crohn's and he said "no".   In fact, he acted like it was a stupid question.  Common sense tells me that tobacco juice can't be good for ailing intestines, but I liked his answer.  Ask your GI and follow his/her advice.  Good luck. 

Nanners
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 14995
   Posted 6/1/2009 6:36 AM (GMT -7)   
Tobacco and nicotine are known triggers for crohns flares. I smoked for 29 years and quit cold turkey over 9 years ago. I feel much better since I have quit. Good luck!
Gail*Nanners* Co-Moderator for Anxiety/Panic Forum
Been living with Crohn's Disease for 33 years. Currently on Asacol, Prilosec, Estrace, Prinivil, Diltiazem, Percoset prn for pain, Zofran, Phenergan, Probiotics, and Calcium and Xanax as needed. Resections in 2002 and 2005. Also diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and Osteoarthritis and Anxiety. Currently my Crohns is in remission.
*Every tomorrow has two handles.  We can take hold of it by the handle of anxiety, or by the handle of faith"*

MMMNAVY
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6927
   Posted 6/1/2009 7:55 AM (GMT -7)   
While nicotine has some research to support that it helps with UC, those same studies preformed on crohnies did not have the same result.

I think as a caring human being I have more of a problem with you volenteering for illness by chewing (granted not as bad as smoking but still not cool),  and have you seen the cancers that people who chew get?  I really hope that you do not get the oral ulcerations that can happen with CD, and I hope that you do not get cancer from this unhealthy behavior.


Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…

Post Edited (MMMNAVY) : 6/1/2009 9:22:06 AM (GMT-6)


CrohnsDaddy
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 235
   Posted 6/1/2009 9:15 AM (GMT -7)   
I dipped Copenhagen for 25 years. I was in the "chew what you can, and eat the rest" crowd; I never spit. I often wonder if it was responsible for me getting crohn's in the first place. My very first crohn's flare happened in high school right after I had started dipping.

I used nicotine patches to quit. It was the most difficult thing I've ever done. That was 5 years ago. I was hoping my CD symptoms would improve after I quit, but that was not the case. I did put on a bunch of weight, though.
Just trying to be a "Regular Member".


Entocort 9 mg/day, Prednisone 20 mg/day, started Humira 1/22/08, started 100 mg of Azasan (Imuran) 2/20/08. Increased Azasan to 150 mg 10/15/08. Discontinued Humira 11/03/08 after extreme fatigue and moderate muscle aches. Started Cimzia 12/4/08. Down to 5 mg/day of Pred now, and will continue to taper until completely off as long as the other meds keep me off the porcelain.



I'm convinced that Prednisone is the root of all evil, and primarily responsible for global warming.


Wolfie40
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2008
Total Posts : 947
   Posted 6/1/2009 3:53 PM (GMT -7)   
I quit and then in 2001 I was dx with Crohns, maybe quitting caused Crohns!
I have a cigar every now and then and I pay for it later that day or the next. I believe that nicotine is bad for Crohns/Colitis.
Diagnosed with Crohns in 2001
First and hopefully last Ileocecectomy 2/18/2009

Medications: Asacol, Folic Acid, Multivitamin, Dbl. Calcium, Probiotics, Protonix, Monthly B-12 injections.

Living a Great life with my Wife and my two Chocolate Labs
Hunter & Hailey.
I love them dearly.


isergodur
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2009
Total Posts : 831
   Posted 6/1/2009 5:10 PM (GMT -7)   
I don't know if it is bad fore the CD or not.
But I do know it is bad for you.

After I got sick I feel so sorry for smokers or people who use this bad stuff to ruin there life.
I had no choice with my disease but people who smoke or chew for example have a choice.
They can quite or keep on doing this and maybe end up getting cancer or a stroke.
Because people always think it is not going to happen to me, but when it does it is to late.
I would never want to know that I am responsible for my ilness.
That is why I have never smoked and don't drink.

I do enjoy life a lot I just don't need any help form bad stuff...

I would recommend that you would find the strength and will power inside you to quit, And wish you a quick recovery from your surgery
24 year old female
Diagnosed with Crohn's disease in December 2008..
Medication - Asacol, Remicade, Entocort, Cipralex and Cerazette.
My wonderful dogs :) ~ www.poodle.is ~


MMMNAVY
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6927
   Posted 6/1/2009 5:39 PM (GMT -7)   
ok common sense stuff... Nicotine inhibits blood circulation. Blood circulation needs to be good post surgerical.
Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…


lenagirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 44
   Posted 6/1/2009 8:02 PM (GMT -7)   
While chewing tobacco is definitely not good for your health overall, I think you have anything but a black and white case about whether what you're doing is bad for your Crohn's (aside MMMNAVY's point, which if true would be a good reason to quit until you recover some more). When I first got sick, I thought I had UC, so I didn't worry about my smoking at all, and actually ramped up the amount I smoked for about 2 months and nothing changed. After 2 months, I got diagnosed with Crohn's and almost immediately quit completely and did not smoke at all for months and months. It made no difference. I started smoking again occasionally, it made no difference. I had a flare-up this fall, quit completely again, saw no change, started again, saw no change,etc. For me, smoking/nicotine intake does not seem to have a substantial impact on my Crohn's, but this is not the case for everyone.

By all means, chewing tobacco could be exacerbating your Crohn's, and I think it's worth looking into. I totally understand your hesitancy and believe that sometimes it is worth it to take risks if they make your life more enjoyable/bearable. If I were you I'd definitely try quitting for a while and see what happens, if only as a favor to your wife, who I'm sure hates the idea that you're might be doing yourself damage, since you can always take it up again. If it did make you feel noticeably better, it would probably become worth it to you to stop for good.


I would also just like to point out the fact that it is NOT an established fact that if you have Crohn's, tobacco use (whether via smoking or chewing) will trigger symptoms or flares. People taking this as fact is annoying to me, because medical science still has very little understanding of the relationship between smoking or tobacco use and IBD:

Smokers are definitely more likely to develop Crohn's than non-smokers and several studies suggest that smokers may tend to have more disease activity/flares and are more likely to need surgery. There have been no studies completed that have looked at nicotine intake in relation to Crohn's activity, and, although most doctors/researchers seem to agree that smoking with Crohn's is bad and Crohnies should therefore probably also avoid nicotine, there seems to be absolutely zero understanding of the mechanism of action here. A correlation between smoking and disease activity does not prove that the smoking causes the increased disease activity, especially considering the fact that people who smoke are knowingly engaging in a behavior that is bad for their health and I would assume this type of decision-making would tend to be reflected in other aspects of smokers' lifestyles. I don't know this for sure, but it seems obvious to me that those who smoke would be less likely to be concerned with other aspects of self-care, some of which could definitely have an impact on Crohn's symptoms (complying with treatment/medication plans, paying attention to avoiding possible trigger foods, getting enough sleep, managing stress adequately, etc). Add to that the fact that the correlation isn't even established for nicotine-use in general and that no studies (as far as I know) have looked at chewing tobacco or oral intake of nicotine and IBD, and the fact that Crohn's is one of the most individualistic diseases around (no doctor suggests every crohn's patient stop eating dairy because a lot of us have issues with lactose).

Also, while we know smoking and nicotine (and prob. carbon monoxide also) can ease UC inflammation and symptoms that no studies have looked at how smoking or nicotine impacts Crohn's patients whose inflammation is primarily in the large versus the small intestine. I've seen it hypothesized in articles and would tend to guess that tobacco is more likely have a negative impact if you have extensive disease in the small intestine than, say, Crohn's colitis, where the inflammation is confined to the colon.

Sorry if this is waaaaay long. It's just a topic that's of a lot of interest to me that I've looked into a lot.
21 years old, diagnosed with CD at age 18,
First major flare since diagnosis started in Nov. 08. Still recovering and mostly stable, but having trouble tapering Pred.

Current Meds:
Prednisone 12.5 mg, Azathioprine 75 mg (just started 5/03, but think it may be starting to kick in), Asacol, and Rowasa
Plus Vancomycin and Florastor for a recurring case of c diff.


MMMNAVY
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6927
   Posted 6/1/2009 8:13 PM (GMT -7)   
Mine was from JSTOR if I am recalling correctly (if you could find it I would love to be able to post it to resources).

I think we can all agree that poor circulation that can be caused by nicotine intake (it is not the only reason for poor circulation), is not a good thing. Especially post surg.
Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…


chico41
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 135
   Posted 6/2/2009 5:31 AM (GMT -7)   
i know chewing is not good just like to much grease,coffee, etc...  when i am at home a can of chew last me about 3-4 days.  now in the hospital it last me about 10-15 days.  so i have cut down alot.  i talk to my surgeon yestereday and she has no studdies if chewing is bad for a chrohnie.  my gi doctor knows i chew and has never said anything bad except that it is bad for you just like anthing else.  i think i do it in moderation.  where i think chewing is bad is when u pack it in your lip so tight it cuts off the circulation, which i do not do.  when the time is right i WILL quit. and when i quit it will   be for me.  the surgeon was just here and is going to advance my diet to more liquids.  yesterday is the first day since surgery 28th that i was able to drijnk anything.  so as we speak i am ordering some COFFEE.  am doing alot of walking.  man i want to go home.  sick and tired of being sick and tired.  and yes i know it could be worse, being here in mayo clinic i really don't have anything to complain about, seeing other ppl alot worse then i am.  i am a pretty positive guy, this whole ordeal is really taking its tole on the wife.  she has depression problems.  so the additional stress is not good for me.  my phisophy is one day at a time.  it works for me.   gotta run shower time.  talk more later. 

MMMNAVY
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6927
   Posted 6/2/2009 6:00 AM (GMT -7)   
Persson G, Hellers G, Ahlbom A. Use of oral moist snuff and inflammatory bowel disease. Int ] Epidemiol 1993; 22: 1101-3
...A Swedish study suggests that use of oral moist snuff increases the risk of both Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis, unlike smoking which increases the risk of Crohn's disease but ameliorates ulcerative colitis.
(This is not the one I was thinking of but it does have some linkage.)

But I think as a guy you would be much more concerned about that nicotine caused poor blood circulation and certain adult activities  (not saying this is a problem right now, but most guys I know would aviod ED like the black plague).  I am sorry if this is offensive (I do not mean it to be), but out of concern for your health and happiness I hope that you will find the strength to overcome this addiction. 
 
If you do not believe that nicotine (chronic use) causes poor circulation then you have not been paying attention for about the past 30 years.  (ask any doctor if chronic nicotine use can cause poor blood circulation) 
 
Check out also Buerger’s Disease.
There are smokers paradoxes, but this situation is not one of them.

I do believe that nicotine use can be just as addictive as cocaine, so please think about Mayo's programs to help you quit (since you are there anyway) if you really meant what you said.

____________________________________________________________________________

Sorry just one little caveat, you have been thru alot and at Mayo you are seeing alot really serious illnesses.  How many more signs do you need to have in order to take better care of yourself?


Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…

Post Edited (MMMNAVY) : 6/2/2009 11:35:06 AM (GMT-6)


MAG102886
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 674
   Posted 6/2/2009 8:39 AM (GMT -7)   
I pretty much agree with everyone else. I started smoking at the age of 16, and had my first flare AND resection the same year. I had no problems prior. However, I did not link the two things until just last year.  Smoking and chewing are hard on ANYONES stomach, having Crohns and smoking/chewing is like a double whammy.  I havent been able to quit yet, but I have signifigantly reduced the amount of cigs I smoke, and I DO notice when I don't smoke my stomach feels so much more relaxed.  I used to smoke to calm myself down when my stomach was very upset because I would freak out. Stress is my trigger to smoke, but my stress comes from smoking. Hmmph!  Its my one guilty pleasure in life, but I know I need to stop, and I will stop when I feel its the right time for me.

Dianogsed with Crohns: At 16 years old. 22 years old now.
Surgeries:2 Bowel Resections, Gallbladder Removed.
Current Meds: Imuran 50mg, Vitamin B12 (injection), D, and C tablets. Fish Oil Tablets, Cats Claw, Slippery Elm, and Reishi.
 

CrohnsDaddy
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2007
Total Posts : 235
   Posted 6/2/2009 10:02 AM (GMT -7)   
The mind of someone addicted to nicotine isn't rational. I know this because I had that mind for 25 years. It doesn't matter how many studies you show, or how many times you tell this mind that it's bad for them. They will *not* quit until they decide for themselves that the time is right. For me, it came as a surprise. One morning, my three year old son picked up my can of Copenhagen off of the coffee table and said, "Daddy, what's this?" Looking down at that innocent face, I replied, "It's nothing, buddy." And I threw it in the trash. I haven't had a dip since that day.
Just trying to be a "Regular Member".


Entocort 9 mg/day, Prednisone 20 mg/day, started Humira 1/22/08, started 100 mg of Azasan (Imuran) 2/20/08. Increased Azasan to 150 mg 10/15/08. Discontinued Humira 11/03/08 after extreme fatigue and moderate muscle aches. Started Cimzia 12/4/08. Down to 5 mg/day of Pred now, and will continue to taper until completely off as long as the other meds keep me off the porcelain.



I'm convinced that Prednisone is the root of all evil, and primarily responsible for global warming.


dt19&99
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 174
   Posted 6/2/2009 1:05 PM (GMT -7)   
I can definately say smoking didnt cause my Crohns (I didnt start until about 4 years after I was diagnosed) But whethers there are any studies showing it or not, smoking has its hand in helping a lot of diseases along, I don't think its too far fetched to think it can make Crohns get worse. However, that all depends on the person as to how much it will hurt them as well...

I wouldn't mind quitting but I enjoy it (and started back on 3rd shift last week and its hard not to smoke on 3rd)... In December they're banning smoking in restaurants here in VA so that should make quitting easer anyway

chico41
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 135
   Posted 6/2/2009 1:24 PM (GMT -7)   
poor  me.my life has not been easy.  i have numerous problems.  one is cmt diesease, which is a deteration of the nerves in hands and feet.  My diet stinks, there are lots of foods i cannot eat due to this dd.  i chew, do not drink,smoke or do drugs. i choose to chew, maybe maybe not it would help my chrohns. i do try and do what ever it takes to slow the dd down, but this nasty habit.  ppl do not even know i chew.  so yoiu can't say it is discusting.  I do admire ppl that do quit there Habits.  what ever it maybe.  you have to walk a mile in my shoes to understand all the crap that i go threw.   yeah

MMMNAVY
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6927
   Posted 6/2/2009 2:58 PM (GMT -7)   
chico,
I am sorry if that came off as being very judgemental. You do have a double edge sword there as the lower blood circulation probably helps with the level of pain you feel. Definately a nicotine paradox.
Navy
Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…


LMills
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Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1753
   Posted 6/2/2009 3:04 PM (GMT -7)   
I'm wary of any tobacco related products. Smoking and then a brief month period where I quit directly preceded falling ill and then my Crohn's diagnosis. I know that no one can say there is a direct correlation, but I believe it was one of many contributing factors.
20 years old, Diagnosed with moderate to severe Crohn's and Colitis in May of 2008.
Currently taking: Prednisone 10 mg, pentasa 2 pills 4x a day, bentyl as needed, omeprazole in the morning, prenatal multivitamin, humira every other week, and Align probiotics prescribed by my GI.
Diet almost completely without refined sugars, wheat, flour, gluten, high lactose dairy, and/or junk food in general.
bonniegriffith.blogspot.com/
Learning how to live again.
"He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how."


chico41
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 135
   Posted 6/3/2009 10:22 AM (GMT -7)   
OK........this reply is from "'THE WIFE' of CHICO 41. The news today is that he had to have the NG tube placed again this morning. He is going to continue chewing because he thinks I am trying to take that away from him. If anyone could tell me that chewing absolutely does not make a difference concerning his Chrone's I would not say another word about it. But after every surgery he has had for his Chrone's he does well for awhile and then ends up with the NG tube again and an extended hospital stay. Yes, I do suffer with depression, but I also do everything I can to help myself , ex. taking my meds, exercising and accupunture. I will try anything to help myself.........I don't understand why he won't. His health does not just affect him........I am in this also.

Nanners
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 14995
   Posted 6/3/2009 10:43 AM (GMT -7)   
Mrs. Chico,

Can you possibly get his doctors on board to help you to get him to quit chewing. I know he wants to have "something" he can enjoy with this darn disease, but if that "something" is causing him to continue to be ill, he has to stop that something. He will never get better otherwise. And your right, this disease also affects your life too. I am very conscious of my husbands needs too, I don't want him having to always suffer because I am always sick.

Sending healing thoughts and prayers your way.

Hugs
Gail *Nanners*
Gail*Nanners* Co-Moderator for Anxiety/Panic Forum
Been living with Crohn's Disease for 33 years. Currently on Asacol, Prilosec, Estrace, Prinivil, Diltiazem, Percoset prn for pain, Zofran, Phenergan, Probiotics, and Calcium and Xanax as needed. Resections in 2002 and 2005. Also diagnosed with Fibromyalgia and Osteoarthritis and Anxiety. Currently my Crohns is in remission.
*Every tomorrow has two handles.  We can take hold of it by the handle of anxiety, or by the handle of faith"*

chico41
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2006
Total Posts : 135
   Posted 6/3/2009 5:09 PM (GMT -7)   
Thank-you for the encouraging words, Gail. I am one step ahead of you.......I was able to visit with one of the people on his medical team about his problem with chewing. She was very surprised to hear he had not quit chewing the whole time he has been hospitaized. When I brought the subject up with the surgeon the other day, I thought she might have shared this informatiion with the medical team. She told me we will be seeing the Chrone's specialist before we leave Rochester and the specialist will be addressing this subject with my husband. The last time he was hospitalized at home, the attending doc said that it was not a good idea for him to be chewing because of his compromised immune system. That it wouldn't take much for a cancer cell to go wild in his system.......that did not frighten him. He says he is tired of being sick.......then do something good for your health. Thanks for listening. Chico's wife.

MAG102886
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 674
   Posted 6/3/2009 5:24 PM (GMT -7)   
I really can see both sides of this. Chewing and smoking both cause issues with Crohns disease. You can pretty much find information on that on every Crohns website you can possibly find. I however, DO smoke.. I also KNOW its hurting me, and causing my Crohns to become worse.  I know that I need to quit, and when I feel like I'm ready to, I will. One thing I can tell you is that you CANNOT make someone quit a habit like that unless THEY want to. My doctors tell me all the time to stop, but until I'm ready I will continue.  Like I said in a previous post, its my one guilty pleasure in life.  If a doctor has ever said anything to me that actually really stuck with me, its what my GI said to me.."Don't think of it as taking away something from yourself, but gaining something." He was refering to a healthier life, and he is %100 right!


Dianogsed with Crohns: At 16 years old. 22 years old now.
Surgeries:2 Bowel Resections, Gallbladder Removed.
Current Meds: Imuran 50mg, Vitamin B12 (injection), D, and C tablets. Fish Oil Tablets, Cats Claw, Slippery Elm, and Reishi.
 

MMMNAVY
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6927
   Posted 6/3/2009 5:27 PM (GMT -7)   
I have always wondered why people chew or smoke? I realize that a strong component is addiction, but why start? Is it for comfort? Energy?
Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…

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