I hate my gut flora

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samsonthehero
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 8/31/2009 5:39 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi all. I'm new.

about 6 months ago I had the first resection for Crohn's after 8 years of what seems to me like almost complete remission (including 4 years without meds). The resection itself was minimal (a few centimeters) but was necessary because of complications (abbsess).

The problem is that ever since the surgery I feel that my digestive system is not functioning like it used to. I have evening bloating, gas and soft stools with undigested food but no pain, blood, fever or diarrhea. Also, I have an iron deficiency which only gets worse.

I am currently trying to find out the cause of these new symptoms. Three months before the surgery I was put on an elemental diet and cipro+flagyl. My doc said it could be lactose intolerance or bacterial overgrowth. He suggested a lactose-free diet and if that doesn't work, then a course of cipro+flagyl followed by probiotics is needed. I have tried to go lactose free and it didn't help. As for the antibiotics, I am not eager to take them yet, because it might make things worse.

Has anyone else had a similar experience and have tips for me?

Thanks.
Crohn's since 1994.
Appendicectomy at age 3. Laproscopic ileocecectomy Feb 2009. Remission since then.
Currently on 6mp 50mg, Floradix 15ml twice daily, vitamin D 400ul, probiotics.


Nanners
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 14995
   Posted 8/31/2009 6:49 AM (GMT -7)   
I just finished a 10 day course of Cipro for a small intestine bacterial overgrowth (SIBO). My symptoms were much as yours, I would get really bloated and gassy after I ate anything. With the help of Cipro and I changed my probiotics to Nature's Way Primadolphilus Reuteri, I am feeling great again.

My doctor told me this SIBO is very common in those who have had resections, and I have had two myself. Good luck!
Gail*Nanners* Co-Moderator for Crohns Disease and Anxiety/Panic Forum
Crohn's Disease for over 33 years. Currently on Asacol, Prilosec, Estrace, Prinivil, Diltiazem, Percoset prn for pain, Zofran, Phenergan, Probiotics, Calcium  w/Vit D, and Xanax as needed. Resections in 2002 and 2005. Also diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, Osteoarthritis, and Anxiety. Currently my Crohns is in remission, but my joints are going crazy!
It's scary when you start making the same noises As your coffee maker.
*Every tomorrow has two handles.  We can take hold of it by the handle of anxiety, or by the handle of faith"*

AyurvedaHeals
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 8/31/2009 7:01 AM (GMT -7)   
I like Garden of Life's Primal Defense Ultra. It has S. Bouldari, which is very important for recolonizing the flora. As long as it has S. Bouldari.

samsonthehero
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 3
   Posted 8/31/2009 7:50 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for the responses.

I guess I have to use the heavy artillery (cipro+flagyl).

In general I am very suspicious about probiotics products. I wish there were more medical-grade products with adequate amounts of the right strains.
The probiotics I used thus far has 21.5 billion units per capsule of the following: S. Thermophilus, B. Longum, B. Bifidum, L. Acidiphilus, L. Casei and L. Rhamnosus. I also eat probiotic yogurts.
I hope they can be used to re-populate the gut.

Should I take the probiotics with the antibiotics or keep them for later?

Anyway, I will report my progress.
Crohn's since 1994.
Appendicectomy at age 3. Laproscopic ileocecectomy Feb 2009. Remission since then.
Currently on 6mp 50mg, Floradix 15ml twice daily, vitamin D 400ul, probiotics.


EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 8/31/2009 8:16 AM (GMT -7)   
A possible choice for a "medical-grade" probiotic is VSL#3. The capsules (I would not recommend the sachets due to fillers) have 250 billion beneficial bacteria. As with most things here, not everyone has good success with VSL, while others swear by it. My local Walgreens has ordered it in for me in the past.

You might want to consider making your own yogurt because it has 4 times the beneficial bacteria that store-bought yogurt has. The book "Nourishing Traditions" by Sally Fallon also explains how to make other fermented foods for their beneficial bacteria, such as sauerkraut and fruit chutneys.

Yes, take the probiotics while on antibiotics. Experts say to take them two hours before or after your antibiotic to lessen the killing of beneficial bacteria by the anti's.

Lastly, if you are going the cipro+flagyl route, you might want to consider what AyurvedaHeals said and take a probiotic with Saccharomyces boulardii. Florastor is a name brand that doctors often prescribe, but I'm sure there are others. S. boulardii has been proven to fight/prevent C diff. infections which are sometimes caused by the big-gun antibiotics. Here's what Wiki says:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saccharomyces_boulardii

Good luck to you!
Mom to 17 year old son diagnosed in June, 2007.
Omega 3s, digestive enzymes, probiotics, vit. C, calcium, vit. D3, a good multivitamin and SCD legal yogurt
Started The Maker's Diet in Sept. '07. Incorporate Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) recipes, too. Med-free.
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&m=984588
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&m=1533705
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&p=1&m=1262312


AyurvedaHeals
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 8/31/2009 8:17 AM (GMT -7)   
Definitely take the probiotics with the antibiotics. Studies have shown that probiotics help antibiotics work better, and more importantly they minimize the damage from the antibiotic(which, to me, is probably the reason the antibiotic works better). I also have my doubts about many probiotics. But hey, there is a great product called Florastor. I'm pretty sure it's just S. Boulardi. Whats great about it is that it has been studied to death and it might be medical grade, not sure. I know lots of doctors trust it though.

Have you heard of lassi? It's an Indian drink made from yogurt. They use it in Ayurveda.
Crohn's since '98. All I take consistently are Ayurvedic herbs. Exercise is essential. I do Qi Gong and lift kettle bells. I study Ayurveda and a little traditonal Chinese medicine.


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 8/31/2009 10:45 AM (GMT -7)   
Probiotics need to be taken at least 2 hours AFTER you're done taking your antibiotics for the day cuz antibiotics kill everything (which is why you need to take a good probiotic daily and indefinitely---flaring or not---). Probiotics are essential for IBDers cuz we tend to have bacterial overgrowth, there are many good ones on the shelves, it's a matter of find one that contains at least 10 billion, too low is a waste of time and money. One that carries the most strains is best too. Actually, you'll likely find the best quality in the store fridge, the ones that need to be kept cold.

VSL3 is about the highest/strongest you can get usually by RX.

:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)


Nanners
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 14995
   Posted 8/31/2009 11:54 AM (GMT -7)   
I agree with PB4 the probiotics should be taken 2 hours after you take the anti-b's. By me taking the Cipro and a better probiotic I am doing much better gut flora wise. IMO
Gail*Nanners* Co-Moderator for Crohns Disease and Anxiety/Panic Forum
Crohn's Disease for over 33 years. Currently on Asacol, Prilosec, Estrace, Prinivil, Diltiazem, Percoset prn for pain, Zofran, Phenergan, Probiotics, Calcium  w/Vit D, and Xanax as needed. Resections in 2002 and 2005. Also diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, Osteoarthritis, and Anxiety. Currently my Crohns is in remission, but my joints are going crazy!
It's scary when you start making the same noises As your coffee maker.
*Every tomorrow has two handles.  We can take hold of it by the handle of anxiety, or by the handle of faith"*

EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 8/31/2009 12:50 PM (GMT -7)   

Ok, so you two have me wondering where I read the before or after antibiotics thing. confused   After a little bit of looking I found this article that is probably the best plan of attack:

"During antibiotic therapy, a good dose is between 6 and 25 billion total viable probiotic cells per day. They should be taken as far away from the antibiotics as possible (for instance, if the antibiotics are to be taken every eight hours, the probiotic supplements should be taken four hours after the antibiotics). Probiotic therapy should be continued a week to a month beyond the antibiotic treatment period to replenish any beneficial bacteria lost during antibiotic use. Probiotic use should not interfere with the effectiveness of antibiotics."

The source seems like a pretty good article:
 

AyurvedaHeals
New Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 7
   Posted 8/31/2009 9:00 PM (GMT -7)   
I was confused. I thought you were asking whether or not you should take the probiotics after you finished the entire bottle of antibiotics. In this case, I agree with the others. Ha, my bad.
Crohn's since '98. All I take consistently are Ayurvedic herbs. Exercise is essential. I do Qi Gong and lift kettle bells. I study Ayurveda and a little traditonal Chinese medicine.

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