A1 milk - the cause of Crohns?

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ozonehole
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Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 559
   Posted 9/8/2009 1:52 AM (GMT -7)   
I just read two article about A1 milk, and I am floored. It could be the cause of Crohn's. By the way, it doesn't say that in the article, but the testing was done on rats and rabbits, animals which don't get Crohn's as far as I know. But A1 is highly suspect for causing other autoimmune diseases.

What is A1 milk? That takes a lot of explanation, so I'll just point you all to the articles. Please read both of them - the second one is more technical but has more scientific credibility. So without further ado:

Milk May Endanger Your Health

A1 and A2 Milk: What is the Fuss?

If true, this would explain a lot. For one thing, it explains why people in Third World countries seldom get Crohn's (infants are mostly breast-fed, and the local cows are less likely to produce A1 milk).

What angers me most is that the problem could be easily and cheaply solved (by moving to A2 milk), as the articles both indicate. But the dairy industry doesn't even want to hear about this (or rather, they don't want their customers to hear about this). Ironically, hiding the problem rather than tackling it head-on increases the likelihood that eventually people will shun drinking milk as the issue gets better known.

cheers,
Robert
Crohn's since 1988
3 resections

Post Edited (ozonehole) : 9/8/2009 3:01:42 AM (GMT-6)


EMom
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Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 9/8/2009 5:16 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for posting that! I'd read an article a while back about it. The article mentioned that we will eventually see A2 Protein Certified milk on our shelves. I've been watching, but haven't yet seen it... Have you run across anything that states what kind of cow produces A2 milk?

Nanners
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Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 14995
   Posted 9/8/2009 7:16 AM (GMT -7)   
JMHO I still don't think milk is the culprit. Maybe for some, but not all. I have family members living in Mexico that drink lots and lots of milk, and none have Crohns. And mexicans do not have Crohns. I just believe there are too many variables/other triggers for milk to be the cause of Crohns. I drank milk until I had my first resection all the time (became lactose intolerant after surgery), it never caused me to flare or anything, in fact during that time, I was in remission. I personally wonder if the cause might have been alot of antibiotics I used as a child. Just my opinion guys.
Gail*Nanners* Co-Moderator for Crohns Disease and Anxiety/Panic Forum
Crohn's Disease for over 33 years. Currently on Asacol, Prilosec, Estrace, Prinivil, Diltiazem, Percoset prn for pain, Zofran, Phenergan, Probiotics, Calcium  w/Vit D, and Xanax as needed. Resections in 2002 and 2005. Also diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, Osteoarthritis, and Anxiety. Currently my Crohns is in remission, but my joints are going crazy!
It's scary when you start making the same noises As your coffee maker.
*Every tomorrow has two handles.  We can take hold of it by the handle of anxiety, or by the handle of faith"*

spookyh
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Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 1342
   Posted 9/8/2009 9:03 AM (GMT -7)   
Goat milk is A2 milk. Costs too much money for me though! Also, I believe it's jersey cows that produce A2 milk.
34 years old, Crohn's disease for 15 of them
Current Meds: Humira since 7/08, Pentasa, Effexor XR
Supplements: 3 kinds of Fish Oil, Multi-Vitamin, B-Complex, Vitamins D, E, & K, Calcium, Magnesium, Enzymes
SCD since 12/01/08 - eating Stage 3 foods


MAG102886
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Date Joined Jul 2008
Total Posts : 674
   Posted 9/8/2009 9:35 AM (GMT -7)   
I don't think milk is the culprit either. Maybe for some, but for me no.  I was breast-fed, and after that my mother gave me regular milk once and I didn't like the taste, and refused to drink it.  I can honestly say I'm 22 yrs old and Ive never drank a glass of milk.  If I eat cereal I use soy milk. I do however love cheese, yogurt, pudding ect ect.
 
I think that my Crohns is a 100% result of me smoking.  I started smoking the summer before my freshman year of highschool, thats when my problems started. I never linked the two before, but now I do.
Dianogsed with Crohns: At 16 years old. 22 years old now.
Surgeries:2 Bowel Resections, Gallbladder Removed, 3 Abscess Cleanings
Current Meds: Cimzia, Methorexate, Vitamin B12 (injections), Nexium.
Next Surgery: Sept 4, 2009 to Take Down Abdominal Fistula!!  (On hold until current flare is under control, boo!)
 

Nanners
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 14995
   Posted 9/8/2009 9:51 AM (GMT -7)   
Mag I also started smoking at the same age too. That has been another thought that might be the culprit for my Crohns. None of my siblings smoked, only me. Hmmmm....
Gail*Nanners* Co-Moderator for Crohns Disease and Anxiety/Panic Forum
Crohn's Disease for over 33 years. Currently on Asacol, Prilosec, Estrace, Prinivil, Diltiazem, Percoset prn for pain, Zofran, Phenergan, Probiotics, Calcium  w/Vit D, and Xanax as needed. Resections in 2002 and 2005. Also diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, Osteoarthritis, and Anxiety. Currently my Crohns is in remission, but my joints are going crazy!
It's scary when you start making the same noises As your coffee maker.
*Every tomorrow has two handles.  We can take hold of it by the handle of anxiety, or by the handle of faith"*

Illini
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 298
   Posted 9/8/2009 10:27 AM (GMT -7)   
Interesting read, thank for posting. I'm not sure I follow how this fits in with Crohn's, other than gut permeability?

The dairy industry definitely does think about Crohn's, at least in terms of MAP contamination.

"Scenario Analysis of Changes in Consumption of Dairy Products Caused by a Hypothetical Causal Link Between Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis and Crohn’s Disease"

http://jds.fass.org/cgi/content/full/91/8/3245

*activated your link*

Post Edited By Moderator (Nanners) : 9/20/2009 7:36:08 AM (GMT-6)


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 9/8/2009 10:58 AM (GMT -7)   
There is crohn's in mexico as there is in pretty much every corner of the world, it's just that the highest prevalence is in North America...
 
this link gives aprox numbers....
 
 
 
 
:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)


Nanners
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 14995
   Posted 9/8/2009 6:11 PM (GMT -7)   
PB4 just fyi, Mexico is part of North America. And less than 200,00 out of over 104 million people is really really small percentage. The mexican diet is more natural, its really not like what is sold at the Mexican restaurants in the US. Most Mexican meals are more homemade and natural believe it or not. In the border cities sadly they have picked up the crappy US habits, but down in Mexico the diet is more natural. I actually do very well when I go to visit my SIL in Mexico, because of the more natural diet. I have yet to meet anyone who has Crohns in Mexico and the doctors do not know much about it here. JMHO
Gail*Nanners* Co-Moderator for Crohns Disease and Anxiety/Panic Forum
Crohn's Disease for over 33 years. Currently on Asacol, Prilosec, Estrace, Prinivil, Diltiazem, Percoset prn for pain, Zofran, Phenergan, Probiotics, Calcium  w/Vit D, and Xanax as needed. Resections in 2002 and 2005. Also diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, Osteoarthritis, and Anxiety. Currently my Crohns is in remission, but my joints are going crazy!
It's scary when you start making the same noises As your coffee maker.
*Every tomorrow has two handles.  We can take hold of it by the handle of anxiety, or by the handle of faith"*

craizy_daizy
Regular Member


Date Joined Feb 2009
Total Posts : 50
   Posted 9/8/2009 7:02 PM (GMT -7)   
i read a lot about the MAP bacteria a while back and it seemed milk was the main culprit in that theory too...i know i drank a lot of milk growing up, but i wasn't breast fed. actually, when i was in the hospital for my resection last year one of the nurses asked if i was breast fed, and felt very strongly that if i ever have kids i should do that because it helps to line the guts...i felt like she was blaming my mom for my bad guts :S on another note, i've never used tobacco in my life, but it doesn't mean that couldn't be a cause for some too....i also read that birth control has been looked at as a trigger...who knows?
craizy_daizy

-22 y/o alaskan
-resection oct '08
-cd diagnosed nov '08
-vitamin b12 shot
-starting remicade sept. 2, '09


EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 9/8/2009 7:50 PM (GMT -7)   
Well, I breastfed my son for 8 months exclusively, and he still got Crohn's.cry He also doesn't smoke or take birth control! turn He hated milk, but loved ice cream and cheeses. MAP could definitely be present in those... and A1 milk is likely used to make them...

Yes, who really knows? It could be a combination of both or none of the above! Personally I think MAP is a contender... and I'm off to find me a Jersey cow! smilewinkgrin

vitaka
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 9/8/2009 7:52 PM (GMT -7)   
I wouldn't trust that link PB4, at least not in regards to its predictions of Crohn's in other countries. I thought some of those numbers looked a little weird, so I started reading the top part. All they did is take the estimate for Crohn's disease in the U.S. (0.18% of the population) and adapt that number to the population of all other countries, which assumes prevalence of Crohn's does not vary across country, continent and ethnicity (among other things). Research has conclusively shown that certain races, ethnicities & nations have higher rates of Crohn's -- whites, certain types of Jews, and developed nations.

Honestly, I'm disheartened that this kind of site even exists, as it is very misleading.
29f, PhD student, diagnosed with Crohn's ileocolitis in 2/06.
During the summer of 2006, I completed the Adacolumn Apheresis clinical trial, which helped me enjoy 2+ years of remission and more than one year med-free. During spring and summer of 2009 the symptoms slowly but surely began to return, and now I'm flaring again.
Colonoscopy/endoscopy scheduled for 9/10; barium X-ray scheduled for 9/18
Currently taking: 4g Pentasa, 20mg prednisone, 150mg Trazadone, multivitamin, vitamin D supplement


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 9/8/2009 8:21 PM (GMT -7)   
Okay, regardless of that particular website (which did state estimates, not exact numbers) point is, there is crohn's in mexico and practically every other part of the world (asia and india as well), it's just there is a higher prevalence in canada and the US compared to the rest of the world.  It may be rare in mexico and many other countries too but it does exsist.
 
UC in mexico....

Conclusions: The frequency of new UC cases has increased significantly in the last 10 years in Mexico, largely due to the unique genetic make-up and the environmental factors (infectious diseases including parasites) not found in other countries.

 
 
 
 Mexico is Middle America, bordering the Caribbean Sea and the Gulf of Mexico, between Belize and the United States and bordering the North Pacific Ocean, between Guatemala and the United States.

:)


My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)

Post Edited (pb4) : 9/8/2009 9:57:18 PM (GMT-6)


medchrt1
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Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 517
   Posted 9/9/2009 4:01 AM (GMT -7)   
the Casein molecule: http://www.betacasein.org/index.php/pi_pageid/92
BCM molecule: followed by a numeral indicating the number of amino acids in the sequence is now, either the byproduct, or, the actual [smaller] chain of casein that has not digested I'm not quite sure.
http://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/290/6/G1105 what this tells me is that rats can't digest cows milk either.

human BCM7 (Tyr-Pro-Phe-Val-Glu-Pro-Ile) differs from the bovine form (Tyr-Pro-Phe-Pro-Gly-Pro-Ile) at two amino acid positions. <<<Now this is referring to the reminder of the casein from digestion and I no longer see the histidine?????? I see Val for humans and Proline for the cow,,, or is this a misprint??

Can someone explain where the histidine went? from wikipedia : http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin

Casein products like the Ensure drink,, protein powders, etc (theres alot of food with casein) some have these amino acids in short form and was wondering if its [already] the histidine or the byproduct, which is the problem.

Human digestion may break down casomorphins into inactive dipeptides by the enzyme dipeptidyl peptidase-4. DPP4<<<< and so now here when the enzyme attempts the digestion there are potential genetic problems. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/dispomim.cgi?id=102720

medchrt1
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Date Joined Sep 2005
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   Posted 9/9/2009 4:13 AM (GMT -7)   
I see the note now on wikipedia bottom of page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin

(Note: There is also a form of bovine β-Casomorphin 8 that has histidine instead of proline in position 8, depending on whether it is derived from A1 or A2 beta-casein.)

So the article cited in the original post differs from wikipedia in that BCM7 is cited by the article while wikipedia indicates BCM8 as the A1/A2 dinstinguishing casein.

Am I correct?

medchrt1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 517
   Posted 9/9/2009 5:01 AM (GMT -7)   
http://jag.igr.poznan.pl/2007-Volume-48/3/pdf/2007_Volume_48_3-189-198.pdf


The above link shows the breakdown sequences.

njmom
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Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1884
   Posted 9/9/2009 8:47 AM (GMT -7)   
Interesting, ozonehole, thanks.

LBJ
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Date Joined May 2005
Total Posts : 511
   Posted 9/10/2009 8:06 AM (GMT -7)   
Not one single person in my family has Crohn's but I do. Mostely everyone I have with Crohn's has someone
in their family with it as well. I always thought it was odd that I don't. I was also a smoker and started having
problems a few years after I was smoking. That's interesting. I never thought about that but maybe could
be reasoning for me. I also got very sick with mine after my first husband and I were trying to get pregnant
and I was taking all kinds of fertility drugs. I had another friend that tried for years to get pregnant, finally
went the fertility route, and ended up with Colon cancer. She lost her battle last year. She left behind a husband
and two small children. So I often thought maybe those fertility drugs I took stired it all up.
Its so hard to tell. I quit trying to figure out how I got it and just live with the fact I have it, and I'll deal
with it.
Living with Crohn's Disease since Jan./2000 but had a few years prior
I'm a true Crohnie with IBS and Arthrities too
 
Meds I have tried:  Too many to list- LOL
Meds currently on:  Tramadol for the pain
                               *Waiting to go on Cimzia                      
No Surgeries
 


medchrt1
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Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 517
   Posted 9/10/2009 4:26 PM (GMT -7)   
I have a chemical engineering degree tsitodawg thanks for compliment.

The statement from the rat reference: http://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/290/6/G1105
..."Interestingly, these effects were prevented by pretreatment of the cells with the µ-opioid antagonist cyprodime."

Indicates that if cyprodime is used, less mucous is created (when the BCM is in the bowel), and I would support this as follows: codeine (similar to cyprodime ??) is one of the few drugs that helped reduce symptoms for me. either in the codeine with tylonol or the lomotil.

medchrt1
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Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 517
   Posted 9/10/2009 4:43 PM (GMT -7)   
of course noone wants to prescribe a narcotic so you can digest the milk protein better.

ozonehole
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Date Joined Dec 2006
Total Posts : 559
   Posted 9/10/2009 7:14 PM (GMT -7)   
medchrt1 said...
I see the note now on wikipedia bottom of page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Casomorphin

(Note: There is also a form of bovine β-Casomorphin 8 that has histidine instead of proline in position 8, depending on whether it is derived from A1 or A2 beta-casein.)

So the article cited in the original post differs from wikipedia in that BCM7 is cited by the article while wikipedia indicates BCM8 as the A1/A2 dinstinguishing casein.

Am I correct?


I am far from being a biochemist, so I won't attempt to answer your technical question. However, I can tell you that Wikipedia has many minor mistakes in it, and occasionally some whoppers. I've spotted a few Wiki errors in the past, and corrected them myself. Wikipedia is a joint effort, with many people contributing to it. Some of the participants are well-qualified experts in their field, but others are not and make honest mistakes. Unfortunately, there are even some deliberate saboteurs who just enjoy spreading misinformation - a major headaches for the Wiki founders who are trying to spread accurate information to anyone who needs it. Since you are knowledgeable about chemistry, perhaps you can contribute too as your time permits.

best regards,
Robert
Crohn's since 1988
3 resections


medchrt1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 517
   Posted 9/10/2009 8:14 PM (GMT -7)   
Perhaps I have compounded the issue. I assumed the mechanism of protein digestion is flawed and that the variants can somehow be helpful to understand the flaw.

Here is another site: http://www.nutramed.com/eatingdisorders/addictivefoods.htm

"From our basic understanding of protein digestion, we should predict that there will be regular traffic of peptide information passing from food digests into the body. Ingestion of normal food may result in information-molecules streaming into our bloodstream from stomach or small intestine with all the impact of narcotic drugs! A "Gluten Stimulatory Peptide" is also described with narcotic (opiate) antagonist properties. It has been suggested that gluten hydrolysates, digests of wheat protein, have mixed opiate agonist-antagonist activity and, like two drugs with mixed narcotic activating and blocking actions (nalorphine and cyclazocine), produce dysphoria and even psychotic symptoms. Loukas and colleagues have derived the structure of cow's milk-derived exorphins: Opioid activities and structures of casein-derived exorphins. These two peptides carry information by finding and binding to brain receptors which ordinarily respond to endorphins. The message is go to sleep, feel bad, but go back for more.

Arg-Tyr-Leu-Gly-Tyr-Leu-Glu (exorphin, digested from alpha casein)

Tyr-Pro-Phe-Pro-Gly (exorphin, digested from beta casein)

The question becomes, how does this information benefit a person with crohns. As the agonist-antagonist activity has not been specified above, for crohns.

BrandyWine
New Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 16
   Posted 9/19/2009 1:38 PM (GMT -7)   
LBJ said...
"Not one single person in my family has Crohn's but I do. Mostely everyone I have with Crohn's has someone
in their family with it as well. I always thought it was odd that I don't. I was also a smoker and started having
problems a few years after I was smoking.......... Its so hard to tell. I quit trying to figure out how I got it and just live with the fact I have it, and I'll deal
with it."

No one in my family has Crohn's that I'm aware of, either. Just me. I am also a smoker, but am "in the process" of quitting. (Chantix - working well so far!) After my resection, I started reading about what to expect after surgery. One thing that was stressed was that the Crohn's can and will go into remission, but will always come back - and if you smoke it will come back up to 10 TIMES WORSE than before. That one fact is a great reason to quit!
Sooo - I'm not sure about the genetic link because I seem to be the only lucky one in my family .. but there are many articles and tests that make me believe cigarettes/nicotine IS a definite factor.

Ahhh, who knows? I'll live with it - and deal with it. ☺
This disease will NOT defeat me!

Diagnosed with Crohn's in December, 2004, at the ripe old age of 52. Currently on Remicade and in remission.


kandc88
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 65
   Posted 9/19/2009 7:26 PM (GMT -7)   

When I'm not so tired I'm going to have to look into this line of thinking a bit more.  But right away I'm seeing a connection to a hypothesis as follows...

Some protein source is providing an opiod peptide that causes crohn's.  I'm not sure if an opiod peptide is a "real" thing at this point cause I've done no reading or if it's a theory...but in any event the fact that it's opiod like was supported by the fact that an opiod antagonist prevents effects....

So it would maybe be an opiod antagonist that would be the treatment for whatever protein, opiod peptide causes crohn's...in theory, of course.  I think it's a very interesting thought and am definitely going to do some reading on it tomorrow...

I don't think codeine with tylenol would be similar to cyprodime, but I do think that there may be an opium antagonist in lomotil.

 

 

medchrt1 said...
I have a chemical engineering degree tsitodawg thanks for compliment.

The statement from the rat reference: http://ajpgi.physiology.org/cgi/content/abstract/290/6/G1105
..."Interestingly, these effects were prevented by pretreatment of the cells with the µ-opioid antagonist cyprodime."

Indicates that if cyprodime is used, less mucous is created (when the BCM is in the bowel), and I would support this as follows: codeine (similar to cyprodime ??) is one of the few drugs that helped reduce symptoms for me. either in the codeine with tylonol or the lomotil.
 


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 9/19/2009 9:13 PM (GMT -7)   
According to researchers, smoking is one KNOWN trigger for crohn's (this includes second-hand smoke as well) but that doesn't necessarily mean it is every crohnies trigger. It varies for each person as well, I did much worse with my CD when I quit smoking for about 3 yrs than I did for the most part as a smoker (granted my CD is affecting mainly my colon---crohn's colitis----and as most know, carbon monoxide from smoking haw an anti-inflammatory affect on the colon).


:)
My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)

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