Is going to a Vegan Diet necessary to heal myself?

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Gary The Pilot
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 14
   Posted 10/7/2009 6:28 PM (GMT -7)   
I am a 33 yr old guy who became unemployed after my company went out of business last year. I have no insurance. I have no health to go back to work if it was actually there. What I am saying is I am desperate. I used to be an athletic go-getter.

When I was 8, I had salmonella food poisoning from bad milk sold through Jewel food store in Chicago. After that, I always had gut problems. I was diagnosed with IBS 5 years ago. Doc removed a pre-cancerous polyp at that time. I started having lower left abdominal pain this July 2009. I thought it was a hernia as I thought maybe I got it while working (Strenuously) on my truck. Thought maybe a blockage was going on. I had physical swelling. I had narrow soft stool / diahreah. I went to the ER. They didn't see anything major, so they said the usual.. follow up with my primary care Doc. I did.

She sent me to a Butt doctor (gastroenterologist). He did an endoscopy and colonoscopy. He found ulcers in my stomach and colon and ileum. Looks like crohn's he says. But he doesn't want to give me the diagnosis of Crohn's since he though it should be worse as Crohn's is progressive. He wants to wait, look inside again, and determine then what it is. Well, my though was... I just got crohn's! Of course it hasn't progressed quite yet. He Put me on Pentasa and Entocort. Didn't work much. I still have the same symptoms.

I can't eat anything without getting sick. So I changed my diet based on what I thought might do the trick. No meat, dairy products, sea food, or animal products. I read "of" the Colitis and Crohn's By Dr. David Klein and his 100% success rate. Without reading the book, I went to organic foods and just ate fruits vegetables, whole grains cereal and bread, and peanut butter. I did this for 2 weeks. Didn't work. I still had indigestion, soft stools, the craps and an extremely low energy level.

I ordered and just started reading the book and am adjusting my diet to include "Specific" raw fruits for the "recovery period". I am having a ton of pain still. Is this normal?

I also take Entocort (For the Possible Crohn's) and Hyomax (IBS) daily, Propanolol (Migraine Prevention) and Cymbalta (Migraine Prevention).

Has anybody ever done this Vegan Diet? Honestly, I can hardly eat anything right now. I used to be a pizza, burger, brat, big breakfast, guy that thought that eating the way I did along with a Centrum Performance vitamin would have me good to go. I was a true "Grill Master". Everybody loved my food! Now, I am faced with eating raw bushes, flowers, and trees. (Not really, but it's kinda like this). Is it really necessary to go this extreme? I'll do it if it means a cure, but I have to admit, I am going nuts not eating what I used to. I know I have to do some sort of diet adjustment, but Vegan is tough. Especially amongst my group of hunting, football loving buddies.
devil

pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 10/7/2009 6:42 PM (GMT -7)   
Lots of vegetarians and vegans end up getting IBD so it's doubtful that becomming vegan will stop CD in it's tracks, but I believe diet does play a role so I altered my diet, no more junk food, processed food, refined sugar, animal fats, caffeine, just whole healthy foods and beverages (mostly water, chamomile tea and only fresh unprocessed juice, OJ and pinapple as well as pom juice are my favorites).

:)
bee propolis caps 500mg one cap twice/day
omegas 369 caps one cap twice/day
probiotics 10 billion cfu once/day
vitamins C-calcium ascorbate (easy on the gut) and vitamin A each once/day
Prodiem fibre supplement one cap before bed
I've also altered my diet (no junky stuff at all, processed, fast-foods, refined sugars, ect) and exercise regularly.
I went from 30+ bloody BM's/day with lots of lower back pain to an average of 5/day no bleeding no back pain and completely formed stools, still have severe urgency issues.
~~~~~~~~My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)~~~~~~~~


EMom
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Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 10/7/2009 7:37 PM (GMT -7)   
Welcome to the forum, SBM....I'm sorry you are going through this.

I believe diet can help many, but vegan isn't one of the more popular ones for Crohn's. You might want to look into the SCD or The Maker's Diet. Both of them restrict carbohydrates and eliminate junk, but animal protein is a good thing! We've been following it for two years now.

Are you doing the raw foods diet? HelloKitty here on this forum is also doing it. Maybe you can ask her some specifics... Here's her recent thread:

http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&m=1606163

We have discussions here often on diets for Crohn's. If you care to read any past threads, click on the links in my signature below. Best wishes to you!!!
Mom to 17 year old son diagnosed in June, 2007.
Omega 3s, digestive enzymes, probiotics, vit. C, calcium, vit. D3, a good multivitamin and SCD legal yogurt
Started The Maker's Diet in Sept. '07. Incorporate Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) recipes, too. Med-free.
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&m=984588
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&m=1533705
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&p=1&m=1262312


spookyh
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Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 1342
   Posted 10/7/2009 8:09 PM (GMT -7)   
I'd be screwed if I had to do vegan. I rely on animal products a lot, mostly in the form of yogurt, cheese, and eggs. I hope that someday I'll be able to eat raw fruits and veggies, but I'm thinking I won't try until next spring.

So here's another vote for SCD! At least you can grill to your hearts content on it :-).
34 years old, Crohn's disease for 15 of them
Resection of ileocecal valve on 09/22/09
Current Meds: Humira since 7/08, Pentasa, Effexor XR, Zyrtec
Supplements: 3 kinds of Fish Oil, Multi-Vitamin, B-Complex, Vitamins D, E, & K, Calcium, Magnesium, Enzymes
SCD since 12/01/08 - eating Stage 3 foods


medchrt1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 517
   Posted 10/7/2009 11:30 PM (GMT -7)   
my theories: if u have blotchy inflammation, there may be a narrow area upstream , so no foods that you cannot chew to a pulp.
no nuts , no celery stalk anything that will cause physical blockage is out.
If you have inflammation, then any food that irritates the inflammed area is out, these foods can be the spicey ones.
Any food that normally irritates the bowel are at your own risk these are caffeine and alcohol.

There are 3 types of food categories, protein, carbs (sugar or longer chains of sugar such as starch), and lipids (fats).
my theory then goes like this..the bowel wall is made up of proteoglycans (protein and sugar combinations)
the wall should interact with the food but it does not because of recognition problems (genetic).
This makes the entire food issue moot because the interaction problem has not been resolved.

Fat is generally malabsorbed because of the inflammation, so do you choose carbs or proteins? vegetables are generally fiber and long chain sugars so this is leaning to carbs
although beans can be an example of a protein fat combo and beans have the added byproduct of excess gas. gas is a normal byproduct, but retained gas is not tolerated in watery stool
and further irritates an inflammed wall.

There are other issues that must exist during digesting the meal, these are enzymes, acidity, pH etc. some other factors for recognition (protein folding etc.) is electric charge.
The transportation itself, across the wall also involves salts potassium and calcium, sodium. so if the wall cannot recognizes a harmful proteoglycan the interior of the wall
is at risk of bad proteoglycan infiltration. Unfortunately these types are also similar in structure to alot of bacteria.

If i had to recommend a diet the celiac diet is a start because I suspect that foods like wheat tend not be recognized properly. wheat is a protein carb combo but the problem area
is the gluten,.. gliadins can increase the permeability of the bowel (to allow proteins to enter)
but with the risk of destroying the tight junctions and of course the risk that the proteins now permitted to enter are also detrimental.
These toxicities of gluten that are not part of the adaptive immune response may be the link between wheat and gluten sensitivity, and possibly type 1 diabetes.
A good case to simply just stay away from wheat.
Crohn's disease (CrD) may have a link to wheat that is independent of gluten. CrD appears to be associated with high anti-yeast antibodies (ASCA - yeast antigens that are
found in bread and other cereal derived products) and affected individuals lack lectin binding proteins such that the mannins in yeast, the antibodies that bind them and
aggravate inflammatory colitis.
Treatment to produce remission of Crohns disease(CrD) symptoms on elimination diet indicated the most important foods provoking symptoms were wheat and dairy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluten_sensitivity

anti-yeast antibodies are high in crohns: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti_saccharomyces_cerevisiae_antibodies (good to know, avoid yeast since the ASCA is higher in crohns to avoid proliferation of yeast reactions)

see http://www.inovadx.com/PDF/brochures/IBD%206P%20brochure%20%20690085%20May%2009%20Rev.%200%20PAGES.pdf

clearly typical pizza is the most risky which has yeast, gluten and wheat.

MMMNAVY
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6927
   Posted 10/8/2009 2:36 AM (GMT -7)   
Vegan will probably end up making you worse, because it is harder to digest. You might want to try stuff that is much easier to digest (jellos, soups, etc) for example the low residue diet.
 
I have to admit I am not a big fan of the diets because I just have had bad experiences with them.  Plus they generally work better for people with mild or moderate disease.


Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease/Thyroid Disorders:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…

Post Edited (MMMNAVY) : 10/8/2009 3:39:12 AM (GMT-6)


Nanners
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 14995
   Posted 10/8/2009 6:24 AM (GMT -7)   
I am currently in remission, but I have the stricturing type of crohns (meaning I suffer with more obstructions). I live on a low residue diet all the time and that works well for me. That means easy to chew, easy to digest. If I did a vegan diet I would probably end up in the ER right away.
Gail*Nanners* Co-Moderator for Crohns Disease and Anxiety/Panic Forum
Crohn's Disease for over 33 years. Currently on Asacol, Prilosec, Estrace, Prinivil, Diltiazem, Percoset prn for pain, Zofran, Phenergan, Probiotics, Calcium  w/Vit D, and Xanax as needed. Resections in 2002 and 2005. Also diagnosed with Fibromyalgia, Osteoarthritis, and Anxiety. Currently my Crohns is in remission, but my joints are going crazy!
It's scary when you start making the same noises As your coffee maker.
*Every tomorrow has two handles.  We can take hold of it by the handle of anxiety, or by the handle of faith"*

Writer
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 443
   Posted 10/8/2009 8:28 AM (GMT -7)   
There is no reason to stick with a vegan diet if it isn't helping you. Many people with IBD figure out what suits their own body best, but with one exception, all of the various diets that are promoted for Crohn's are simply hypotheses of what various writers think might work. They haven't been tested in clinical studies, and there is no proof that they will be more effective than an unrestricted diet. The one exception is enteral nutrition (special liquid formula diet used instead of or in addition to regular food and beverages to induce and/or maintain remission). This has been proven effective for the treatment of Crohn's disease in randomized, controlled clinical studies, but not everyone is willing to stick with a liquid diet for several weeks, or consistently supplement their regular diet with the formula, so that treatment modality isn't used very often in the US.

Gary The Pilot
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 14
   Posted 10/8/2009 12:46 PM (GMT -7)   
Wow, I didn't expect so much feedback. Thanks all!

Rider Fan
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 1445
   Posted 10/8/2009 1:02 PM (GMT -7)   
The good news is that you've eaten raw foods and you're not in the hospital with a blockage and getting blood transfusions, so your gut must not be in too bad shape. Take that book and throw it in the garbage where it belongs. Whenever someone claims 100% success I usually tune them out because they are lying.

CD isn't really a progressive disease, so I don't know what you're GI is talking about. Entocort will do nothing to heal your stomach and colon, just the ilium and perhaps ascending colon.
33 y/o male. Dx'ed in 1999. No surgeries.

Current meds: Humira 2/27/09. Proferrin iron pills.

Tried SCD, didn't work, now avoiding gluten and dairy.


Go Saskatchewan Roughriders!


MMMNAVY
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6927
   Posted 10/8/2009 4:36 PM (GMT -7)   
Rider as you know crohns is very individual and his "could" be a progressive kind, but agree it would be hard to make kind of assumption without an interval between biopsies. I also COMPLETELY agree about anything with 100% success rate, nothing is ever 100% successful when it comes to that broad of a generalization.

Sorebuttman, be gentle with yourself, and your intestines.
Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease/Thyroid Disorders:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…


petittarte
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 686
   Posted 10/8/2009 5:14 PM (GMT -7)   
I've been following a vegan diet for the past month and feel so much better than when I was eating meat and dairy.
Jodi

Symptoms of Crohns, Lupus and Hereditary Angioedema but not the diagnosis


LMills
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1753
   Posted 10/9/2009 11:45 AM (GMT -7)   
I was actually a Vegan before I got Crohn's (broke down to vegetarian before that too), and it was nice at the time for sure. But now? There is no way that I would go back on it. I need animal products to be able to eat now e.g. yogurt, chicken breasts, aged cheese, etc.

The only way you can really find out what is good for you is to try it and see.

A lot of people have found success on the SCD and/or the Maker's Diet, but it's really up to the individual. For instance, the SCD (or rough guidelines) work for me, but they only ended up hurting Navy.

You might try cutting out sugar, gluten, and/or dairy to see if that helps. I can't tolerate those very well anymore.
Diagnosed with Crohn's in May of 2008.
Currently taking: Prednisone, pentasa, omeprazole, and humira. Using probiotics and a multivitamin.
bonniegriffith.blogspot.com/
Learning how to live again.
"He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how."


Gary The Pilot
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 14
   Posted 10/9/2009 8:14 PM (GMT -7)   
On a lighter note, if I have Crohn's... does that make me a Crohnie? I feel for all those going through your Crohn's in an advanced stage. Sounds brutal. I'll keep you all in my prayers. Thanks again for your input and reading my whole post!

nasalady
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 1176
   Posted 10/9/2009 8:21 PM (GMT -7)   
There's a great blogsite about a woman who's Crohn's Disease has gone into remission on the SCD diet; if you're interested, you might want to check it out:

nomorecrohns.com/default.aspx

Lots of people do the Paleo Diet as well; it seems to be helpful for many different autoimmune diseases:

www.paleodiet.com/

Good luck!!
JoAnn
Autoimmune hepatitis, Hashimoto's thyroiditis, fibromyalgia, rheumatoid arthritis, celiac disease, asthma, psoriasis, Reynaud's syndrome. Possible lupus and/or Sjogren's Syndrome - diagnoses pending.

Prednisone, Imuran, Plaquenil, Lyrica, Cymbalta, Levothyroxine, Atenolol, Cozaar, Mirapex, Prilosec


autoimmunediseasesgfliving.blogspot.com

Post Edited (nasalady) : 10/9/2009 9:25:12 PM (GMT-6)


Gary The Pilot
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 14
   Posted 10/9/2009 9:24 PM (GMT -7)   
I'll read up on these diets. Call me a wimp, but I just can't handle this vegan diet. I do love the fruit... But being hungry all the time hurts almost as much as the sickness alone. I have always had a rough time with meat. I kinda "do meat" every once in a while because 50% of the time I eat it, I get sick. Chicken gets me sick 100% of the time. It's a crapshoot with beef. So I have decided to kick meat. I do like cheese and milk. Never really bothers me. I kinda like the organic concept.. not ingesting pesticides and other chemicals. But, is the price really worth it? Is there much in the foods by the time I wash and eat them. Is there that much of a health gain? I have a beautiful 7 year old daughter, brought to me through the miracle of adoption, who is a borderline special needs kid. Her birth parents had some learning disabilities. But they both came from environments consisting of malnutrition. I am learning a lot through this all. I have contemplated feeding her all organic. But the price is a challenge. My point is, I don't quite know what to eat yet, so I am grateful for the advice. There's quite a learning curve here.

Post Edited (SoreButtMan) : 10/9/2009 10:27:50 PM (GMT-6)


njmom
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Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1884
   Posted 10/9/2009 10:22 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks, Nasalady. Those pics of SCD-legal recipes look mouthwatering! 

medchrt1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 517
   Posted 10/9/2009 11:25 PM (GMT -7)   
hers a article from the internet. not really scientific but perhaps you can read it and then consider whether you should stay on diary
http://www.naturalnews.com/002684.html
I look forward to your response.

as far as helping, also stay away from the cereal aisle.

Gary The Pilot
New Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 14
   Posted 10/10/2009 10:39 PM (GMT -7)   
Wow, Medchrt1! Thanks for that insight. I live right on the Illinois Wisconsin border... vacation frequently in Wisconsin... dairy capital of the world... and well.. love(d) dairy! Part of most people's ritual in vacationing in Wisconsin is picking up cheese from the cheese stores everywhere. I did give up dairy also this past month. Though today, my 7 year old daughter had a friend over and I bought em a delicious cheese pizza. I didn't touch the crust, but I snuck a piece of cheese off the top of the pizza. HEAVEN! At least for the moment. Now I feel guilty.

I can say that I have been drinking at least 1/2 gallon of milk a day for probably the past 10 years. I ate a lot of cheese. I was a "HUGE" dairy consumer. SOB, I am really pissed. Why is there always just "One" lone guy that: says meat is bad... dairy is bad... etc. Then, you have an army of "Highly educated" M.D.'s that don't subscribe to any of these idea's? It makes me furious. Are doc's really that... oblivious? Or are these "Nay-sayers" just looking for something to whine about?

We see this food pyramid backed by health professionals everywhere. Then we have a lone guy here and there with a miracle diet or discovery that contradicts almost all previously established health ideals.

It's so frustrating. Might as well just stop eating! Nothing seems to be good for you. Unless it is fresh organic fruit, veggies, and nuts that most can't afford/ readily get. I have been sticking to fresh fruits and veggies. I love delicious fruit.. but I am at a point health wise where I can hardly tolerate that either. I'm a frustrated mess. confused

medchrt1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 517
   Posted 10/11/2009 1:19 AM (GMT -7)   
illeostomy now, has me with alot more choices but i can still feel when i overdo something. No doubt, been in the store with wth am I gonna eat..,and still today but with a bit more knowledge of what I want to avoid. I always had an appetite,it was the after effects - when it went through when I had the pain etc.. The fruit tends to kinda 'produce' more stool as this is from pectin. So the learning curve is.. ok fruit...pectin...pectin makes more stool, make decision , sortof a curing from foods concept. It certainly has something to do with where your inflammation is, as well as knowing what particular foods will not aggravate as much. I like the simple carb fruit idea tho cept the pectin. And i can't help but think there is a solution in a particular aspect of the digestion that can be targeted. so I do have interest when suddenly a trial eliminates a particular amino acid (of protein) completely from diet , for example to see what happens. The simple protein (amino acid) idea is difficult because you cant get a steak, for instance, that is completely absent of 1 amino acid. Same as with milk protein. Once you choose protein you're inevitably getting all the amino acids. I guess, just like a fruit is not going to be all simple sugar carbohydrate but its definitely easier for carbs if you want the carb in simplest form, sugar. more simple, less the bowel enzymes hafta do.

spookyh
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 1342
   Posted 10/11/2009 1:24 PM (GMT -7)   
With all that I've given up on SCD, I'd have a hard time giving up dairy on top of it. I get a lot of my calories from the yogurt and cheese. I've considered switching to goat, but it's quite a bit more money than cow.
34 years old, Crohn's disease for 15 of them
Resection of ileocecal valve on 09/22/09
Current Meds: Humira since 7/08, Pentasa, Effexor XR, Zyrtec
Supplements: 3 kinds of Fish Oil, Multi-Vitamin, B-Complex, Vitamins D, E, & K, Calcium, Magnesium, Enzymes
SCD since 12/01/08 - eating Stage 3 foods


vitaka
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 887
   Posted 10/11/2009 3:54 PM (GMT -7)   
I'd just like to point out the the MAP/Crohn's connection is extremely controversial and has never been definitively proven. The interview with this Robert Cohen guy that medchrt1 has linked to says to me that he is very passionate but needs to do some fact checking. For example, cattle cannot have Crohn's, they can have Johne's Disease (which could just be a typo from transcription). Also, he says that 100% of people with Crohn's have the MAP virus. I did some searching and could not find confirmation of this. Instead I did find at least one study showing that Crohn's patients have higher incidences of testing positive for it than UC patients or a control group (65% vs. 4% vs. 12%). This appears to provide support of a connection, but it is most certainly not 100%.

If you are someone who believes in the MAP/Crohn's connection, you may be interested in looking at information on the drug Myoconda, which is in clinical trials right now. I haven't read much about it, but the drug is based on the belief that Crohn's is caused by MAP.
29f, PhD student, originally diagnosed with Crohn's in 2/06.
10/09: Prometheus test shows results consistent with UC
Rheumatologist appointment 10/12 to address severe joint pain
Currently taking: 2g Pentasa, 20mg prednisone, 150mg Trazadone, multivitamin, vitamin D, magnesium, probiotics


vadreamer1
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 196
   Posted 10/11/2009 5:57 PM (GMT -7)   
I'm in remission and there is no way I could ever go vegan or vegetarian. My gut couldn't handle it. I shudder at the thought of what all those veggies would do to me. EEEEEK

MissCris
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2006
Total Posts : 321
   Posted 10/11/2009 7:23 PM (GMT -7)   
hehe I also cringe at the thought of raw fruits and veggies. I have learned over the past few years that they really wreck my stomach which is hard for me to deal with because occasionally I like to eat healthy wink I've been flaring for a few weeks now and my doc says this is the only time he recommends NOT eating fruits and vegetables :-) Like everyone has said, you will find what works for you but if being vegan doesn't help (or makes it worse) and you really hate it anyway...try something different. Good luck!
"Be ashamed to die until you have won some victory for humanity" ~ Horace Mann


medchrt1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 517
   Posted 10/11/2009 8:40 PM (GMT -7)   
Vitak...the article that confirms the MAP 100%(in this one study) is link is:
 
 
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