Does Blue dye number 1 help Crohn's?

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FunGuy
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Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 1070
   Posted 10/13/2009 9:41 PM (GMT -7)   
Hello I am a new member though I have "lurked" here in the past.  I have had ibd symptoms for about 34 years though I was diagnosed in 1982 with U/C and then Crohn's recently.  I don't seem to tolerate the medicines very well.  Most recently Imuran gave me a couple of bouts of Pancreatitis.  The reason I have joined tonight is to share my recent experience.  What I ask you is: Am I crazy?  Have you experienced this?  Please understand that I KNOW this sounds ridiculous but:
about 18 years ago while working nights in a warehouse I found that eating blue (and green too) ice pops seemed to make my U/C feel better.  I was very busy and tired at this point in my life so somewhere along the line perhaps while in a remission I quit eating the ice pops and forgot about the whole SILLY idea until last month.  I read the Aug 29 issue of Science news page 10: "Brilliant blue for the spinal cord".   The researchers would injure rat's backs and then give brilliant blue dye intravenously to some of the rats.  Those receiving the I.V. showed greater improvement.  Brilliant blue is a relative of FD&C Blue 1.  Well I was flaring (Crohn's now) with a little blood and "stuff" so I bought some G2 gatorade blueberry pomgranete which is a deep blue color.  I also added a few drops of blue 1 to my water bottle and my tea.  I made sure that I drank some at night before bed and first thing in the morning as well as some throughout my workday.  I felt like I was drinking enough if i noticed a slight color change to my stool (sorry).  Low and behold the mucus and blood stoped in about 7 or ten days.  I read that Blue 1 may cause bladder cancer which concerned me.  I also read that Blue 1 is adept at crossing the blood brain barrier which alarmed me enough to stop taking it.  I did notice more stomach pain and frequency when I stopped so I started  again.  On again off again; less pain more pain.  I did a little research on the net and the chemical that the blue dye interferes with is very involved with the inflamation of Crohns.  Blue dye blocks ATP from binding to P2X7.  P2X7, as far as I can tell has a lot to do with the inflammation in Crohn's.  Takes about  12-36 hours for me to start feeling better.
***So has anyone else noticed blue ice pops or gatorade helping them?  Does anyone have a connection to a research facility that can try this on rodents?  Did I read that they have breed mice that have U/C or Crohn's?  I am on Asacol, cortenemas and vitamin D so there are a LOTS of flaws in my experiment.  Did the enemas help? I quit coffee?  Placebo?  I wrote to the spinal researchers and to a micro-biology Crohn's researcher but can't get any traction on having this checked out.  Don't try this yourself though.  I am not sure if large amounts of blue dye is safe. 
 
I have lived a relatively normal life but I am SO tired now.  Not anemic just tired of drugs, toilets, pain and worse of all is the URGENCY.  I don't seem to be as ill as many of the folks here on the forum but as of late I've simply had it. I will save the rest of the rant for another time.  I wish all of us well.  Guy

Post Edited (FunGuy) : 10/13/2009 10:52:26 PM (GMT-6)


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 10/13/2009 10:49 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi and welcome FunGuy,

I've never heard of this blue dye #1 aiding with crohn's, definitely something I'll be googling up on though.

So did your doc change your DX from UC to crohn's (as in were you misDX)? I've read that there are aprox 2% of IBD patients that actually have both, not unheard of but quite rare...I have crohn's colitis myself, which is crohn's affecting the colon where UC typically hangs out, for the last 18 yrs with no full remission, my biggest issues are with frequency (although it's better at the momen, it's still not normal) and urgency, even though I don't have D but instead formed BM's, when it's "go" time it's "GO" time.

:)
bee propolis caps 500mg one cap twice/day
omegas 369 caps one cap twice/day
probiotics 10 billion cfu once/day
vitamins C-calcium ascorbate (easy on the gut) and vitamin A each once/day
Prodiem fibre supplement one cap before bed
I've also altered my diet (no junky stuff at all, processed, fast-foods, refined sugars, ect) and exercise regularly.
I went from 30+ bloody BM's/day with lots of lower back pain to an average of 5/day no bleeding no back pain and completely formed stools, still have severe urgency issues.
~~~~~~~~My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)~~~~~~~~


FunGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 1070
   Posted 10/13/2009 11:13 PM (GMT -7)   
Hi PB. I don't think you will find anything on google with blue dye and crohn's but you should be able to find the spinal study. The crohn's relationship is my own observation.
I don't know if I was miss-diagnosed with U/C. That would be hard to believe though as I had many exams over the years. I generally have D and usually, I think, my illness is in the colon.
I also seem to go frequently even during remissions. Regardless I don't get much warning time. It is hard to make it my parents house sometimes, just 15 minutes away.

Thanks for the welcome. Good night

Sniper
Veteran Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 6518
   Posted 10/14/2009 7:20 AM (GMT -7)   
Hello and welcome.. Should I consider eating Levis now ????
If we would read the secret history of our enemies,we would find in each mans life sorrow and suffering enough to disarm all hostility.


FunGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 1070
   Posted 10/14/2009 7:28 AM (GMT -7)   
Do not eat any Levi's. That is far too much fiber for us. But I would sure like to know if anybody has found that G2 gatorade in blueberry-pomegrante (spell?) has made them feel better? Like I said it sounds goofy even to me but now so many years later I find science that is showing why I might not be nuts.

Anyway I am on vacation today and I am out the door going fishing right now. I got a spot with LOTS OF TREES AND RARELY ANOTHER PERSON (lol) so I am free to catch fish, hike and have Crohn's all at the same time. It is a bloodly long steep walk though. Pun intended. Sorry.

medchrt1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 517
   Posted 10/14/2009 9:40 AM (GMT -7)   
I think this particular blue is the blue-salt, so, since there are indications that electrolyte imbalance occurs in crohns, any salt will have some effect. that is, crohns may be an electrical problem. As far as the rest of this larger blue molecule I dont know.

FunGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 1070
   Posted 10/14/2009 6:28 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for the feed back medchrt. I do not know what the chemical make-up of Blue1 is but I don't think that it would have the positive effect on me I have observed simply because it is a salt. My diet is heavy on salt and a gatorade would not make much additional sodium. In addition the spinal injury test on rats would not yield any positive results over plain saline IV.

I had a great day hiking and fishing today. I sipped G2 gatorade blueberry and I had a great day. I have been informed by a researcher that there are no animals that can be used to test crohn's. I will have to keep using myself. I don't think blue gatorade will hurt me. I will quit using blue dye for the most part in my other beverages.
I still recognize that I might be COMPLETELY wrong about this.

pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 10/14/2009 10:18 PM (GMT -7)   
Glad you had a great day hiking and fishing! They use mice to test them for IBD issues, they induce IBD in mice and they try different things on them to see how things work, or don't work.

:)
bee propolis caps 500mg one cap twice/day
omegas 369 caps one cap twice/day
probiotics 10 billion cfu once/day
vitamins C-calcium ascorbate (easy on the gut) and vitamin A each once/day
Prodiem fibre supplement one cap before bed
I've also altered my diet (no junky stuff at all, processed, fast-foods, refined sugars, ect) and exercise regularly.
I went from 30+ bloody BM's/day with lots of lower back pain to an average of 5/day no bleeding no back pain and completely formed stools, still have severe urgency issues.
~~~~~~~~My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)~~~~~~~~


FunGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 1070
   Posted 10/14/2009 11:08 PM (GMT -7)   
Excellent! I thought I had read that somewhere. I wonder why the researcher I emailed was not aware of it?
So is there anyone on the forum who can get this gatorade idea tested? I guess I will have to drop this because I can't get any traction on the idea.

medchrt1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 517
   Posted 10/15/2009 6:17 AM (GMT -7)   
I had trouble distinguishing the benefit from when it is generally used as a stain (so it is used for testing purpose to see what is occurring when other things are tested ..it is a protein binder). I rechecked and found this link which shows the structure (so BBG is the salt version) of blue dye
http://brain-injuries.suite101.com/article.cfm/food_dye_is_spinal_cord_injury_cure (structure on bottom page)
so it has been tested for spinal injury as IV with benefit as a inhibitor of ATP.
So I guess your theory is that it will pass through the bowel wall and then act as ATP inhibitor to block inflammation in crohns and would write that to FDA.

FunGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 1070
   Posted 10/15/2009 8:11 AM (GMT -7)   
Medchrt you are clearly more educated than I in this area and I appreciate your help on this.  The study on spinal injury in Rats said that the blue dye prevents the binding of ATP to P2X7.  Ok so here is so more information on the realtionship to Crohn's.
 

When ATP binds to P2X7 receptors it facilitates a rapid bi-directional flux of cations thereby triggering depolarization, collapse of the Na+ and K+ gradients, and massive influx of Ca2+. Furthermore, continued stimulation of P2X7 receptors causes formation of large, nonspecific pores, allowing permeability of molecules up to 800 Da via recruitment of a distinct pore-forming moiety (Zanovello et al, 1990, Zheng et al, 1991, Surprenant et al, 1996).
I don't know what half of the above means but there is Na and K in gatorade.  Emaphasis added by me.

NOW LOOK AT THIS BELOW!

0006]High activity of P2X7 receptor has been found to be implicated in epithelial cancer (Coutinho-Silva et al, 2005), leukemia (Zhang et al, 2004), brain tumors (Guo et al, 2004), spinal cord injury (Wang, 2004), tuberculosis (Mancino et al, 2001), Alzheimer's Disease (Parvathenani et al, 2003), neurodegenerative diseases generally (LeFeuvre et al, 2002), autosomal recessive polycystic kidney disease (Hillman et al, 2004), diabetes, including type I diabetes (Elliott and Higgins, 2004), prostate cancer (Slater et al, 2004), osteoporosis, bone formation and resorption (Ke et al, 2003), rheumatoid arthritis, multiple sclerosis, myasthenia gravis, Crohn's disease, Septic shock, and periodontal infection (Muhl et al., 2003).

HERE IT IS!!  High activity of P2X7 implicated in Crohns.  ATP activates P2X7.   Blue 1 inhibits ATP form activating P2X7.  The Blue1 doesn't need to pass through the bowel, it is applied DIRECTLY to the ulcerations in the bowel when I drink it!!   Do you see why I am so excited here!?  Fact is I hope it doesn't pass through the bowel as I am afraid of it's ability to pass into the brain.

 

The above info is from http://www.faqs.org/patents/app/20090215727#ixzz0TYU10qN9  The article also says that as form of Vitamin B-6 is helpful to inhibit P2X7 also.  Guess what?   Gatorade has Vitamin B6 also.  I am going to write to the Professor responsible for that article in the link you included in your post.  If I am incredibly stupidly wrong about this I will have to change my name and go live in a cave with a lifetime supply of Toliet Paper. yeah         Guy

 

Post Edited (FunGuy) : 10/15/2009 10:02:40 AM (GMT-6)


medchrt1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 517
   Posted 10/15/2009 5:16 PM (GMT -7)   
I am not qualified to follow up on this.
2 points though: ATP does occur (see below) ...not sure if the dye inhibits ATP or blocks the p2x7. if there is a build up of ATP Im not sure where, so you have confused me with the patent application. I will try to sort it out but I been crunching numbers all day. really need a biochemist who knows about ATP.
here is the Nobel prize model of the synthase of ATP
http://www.sigmaaldrich.com/life-science/metabolomics/learning-center/metabolic-pathways/atp-synthase.html

FunGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 1070
   Posted 10/15/2009 5:26 PM (GMT -7)   
I think I have found a researcher with an interest. I will advise you if anything comes of this. Thank you for helping. You gave me the lead I needed to find him. Give your eyes a rest from crunching numbers and let us hope I am on to something here. I had some symptoms today but I overtaxed myself yesterday and I haven't followed my own blue dye therapy carefully. I am going to try to follow my routine. I hope I haven't been a fool.

Oh yes. If I understand correctly, the blue1 stops ATP from binding to P2X7. ATP activates P2X7 which in turn does the damage. The patent you were looking at is for a form of Vitamin B-6 which also hinders P2X7 according to that paper. Interestingly gatorade has B-6 in it also.
Thanks yet again for your interest. Exceptional of you indeed.
Guy

medchrt1
Veteran Member


Date Joined Sep 2005
Total Posts : 517
   Posted 10/16/2009 3:53 AM (GMT -7)   
the more I look at the vitamin b6 salt patent the more I like it. Vitamin B6 is pyrodoxine whereas the patent is using P5P is its salt: pyridoxal-5'-phosphate, P5P
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyridoxal_phosphate
I wonder if the salt of vitamin b6 is already available as a supplement.

FunGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 1070
   Posted 10/16/2009 6:58 AM (GMT -7)   
http://www.menopausediet.com/shop/p5p.htm This site talks a bit about P5P. Interesting and sells it

here http://www.menopausediet.com/shop/search.php

Cheaper at Luckyvitamin.com
 
More information is at these sites:
 
 
 
The articles all appear to say that p5p is stronger stuff than normal B6 which does have some side effects over time.  so be careful and talk to doctor first........
 

Post Edited (FunGuy) : 10/16/2009 8:14:30 AM (GMT-6)

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