Mycobacterium Avium Paratuberculosis and Crohn's, AMAZING!

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jpnutritionfirst
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 383
   Posted 10/28/2009 12:00 PM (GMT -7)   
This video blew my mind!!! I don't know if you guys are aware of this already, but I just heard of this!!!! MAP is the cause of a large subset of Crohn's?? Watch all 9 videos on youtube, you must if you have Crohn's and wonder why you got the disease. Seems like a likely hypothesis.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=crm4pKz6X2M&feature=PlayList&p=929205EC991F802C&index=0
Crohn's Colitis diagnosed 6/08
SCD since 4/09
Remicade since 6/09
Boswellia + Acidophilus
Remission


Former58D
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 173
   Posted 10/28/2009 12:27 PM (GMT -7)   
The MAP theory has been around for years based on the similarity between Johnes disease and Crohn's, but nothing has been proven conclusively.
"What can't be changed must be endured" - unknown

DX with distal Crohn's colitis Oct 2007, predominantly in rectum
Colozal (750mg): 3 pills 3xdaily
Cortifoam - 1 nightly
6MP - currently at 100mg and waiting for response......


jpnutritionfirst
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 383
   Posted 10/28/2009 1:17 PM (GMT -7)   
This guy published a paper in 2007 fulfilling Koch's postulates . . . which prove MAC causes Crohn's. Watch all of the videos, and here's the pubmed link to the paper, which I'm in the process of reading. Will get back to you.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov.ezproxy.galter.northwestern.edu/pubmed/17611175?itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum&ordinalpos=4
Crohn's Colitis diagnosed 6/08
SCD since 4/09
Remicade since 6/09
Boswellia + Acidophilus
Remission


EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 10/28/2009 1:22 PM (GMT -7)   
Yes, we have a member here who actually filmed those and, if memory serves me, appears in one or two, as well!

If you're interested, there are also some good interviews of a Dr. Marcel Behr, a leading Canadian MAP researcher, on youtube. I think they are a presentation to the Crohn's and Colitis Foundation of Canada...
Mom to 17 year old son diagnosed in June, 2007.
Omega 3s, digestive enzymes, probiotics, vit. C, calcium, vit. D3, a good multivitamin and SCD legal yogurt
Started The Maker's Diet in Sept. '07. Incorporate Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) recipes, too. Med-free.
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&m=984588
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&m=1533705
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&p=1&m=1262312


jpnutritionfirst
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 383
   Posted 10/28/2009 1:28 PM (GMT -7)   
My fault, just read the paper, he didn't do the experiments to fulfill Koch's postulates but he sort of gathers evidence from other scientists that does. He also has a vested interest in developing antibiotics to better treat MAC specifically through a company called Giaconda Limited.
Crohn's Colitis diagnosed 6/08
SCD since 4/09
Remicade since 6/09
Boswellia + Acidophilus
Remission


Mike W
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2006
Total Posts : 89
   Posted 10/28/2009 1:50 PM (GMT -7)   
Not sure who your buddy Koch is, but this has been discussed for, like, the past decade.

Use the search function and enjoy.


Age : 31

Currently on 75mg 6mp , 20mg prednisone and probiotics.


jpnutritionfirst
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 383
   Posted 10/28/2009 5:25 PM (GMT -7)   
I guess I'm new to the forum and you are a veteran. But anyway, it seems to me that MAC is a cause in the majority of cases of Crohn's. That is hope for a cure . . . I thought a cure was hopeless for a long time
Crohn's Colitis diagnosed 6/08
SCD since 4/09
Remicade since 6/09
Boswellia + Acidophilus
Remission


Carnival Huckster
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 159
   Posted 10/28/2009 5:35 PM (GMT -7)   
I found the whole MAP / MAC postulate to be very convincing ... to the point where I tried to actually seek anti-MAP therapy.  Here are the things I tried:
 
1) Contacted the Pharmaceutical Company in Australia whose anti-MAP treatment is in Phase 2 or 3 trials with the FDA (at the time they were not taking new patients; however their CEO emailed me back personally a very heart-felt letter on the subject.)
 
2) Tried Beck Protocol for eradicating MAC / MAP (not sure what I did wrong, but my symptoms seemed to get worse.)
 
3) Tried high doses of colloidal (NOT ionic) silver.  Pure colloidal silver that do NOT contain proteins will not cause Aygyria -- that is a big misconception about colloidal silver.

Has anyone out there had success with anti-MAP/MAC treatments of any kind?
34 Year Old Male
Crohn's Disease for 12 Years
Current Medications: 9mg entocort (budesonide)
100% SCD for past 90 days (on and off for 10 years)
4,000 mg MSM for 30 days
Vitamins E, D, C
No surgeries
 


MoobyDoo
Regular Member


Date Joined Sep 2009
Total Posts : 212
   Posted 10/30/2009 9:04 AM (GMT -7)   
What about natural antibacterials such as berberine complex, black walnut tincture, olive leaf extract or LDM-100 (NOT the same as LDN)? 

  • Jay25CA
    Regular Member


    Date Joined Jul 2004
    Total Posts : 114
       Posted 10/30/2009 4:18 PM (GMT -7)   
    I tried it and it didn't help.

    Rider Fan
    Veteran Member


    Date Joined May 2008
    Total Posts : 1445
       Posted 10/30/2009 5:19 PM (GMT -7)   
    Do you mean the Giaconda protocol failed, or are you answering mooby?
    33 y/o male. Dx'ed in 1999. No surgeries.

    Current meds: Humira 2/27/09. Proferrin iron pills.

    Tried SCD, didn't work, now avoiding gluten and dairy.


    Go Saskatchewan Roughriders!


    Reef08
    Regular Member


    Date Joined Dec 2005
    Total Posts : 267
       Posted 10/30/2009 8:16 PM (GMT -7)   
    It takes a few months too see any benefit with the antibiotics. Most people who I talked to who used them said it took about 4-5 months before they noticed significant improvement.

    MoobyDoo
    Regular Member


    Date Joined Sep 2009
    Total Posts : 212
       Posted 10/31/2009 8:08 AM (GMT -7)   
    There is a group for Crohn's in the UK on Facebook that claims to be developing a vaccine to eradicate MAP and thus Crohn's.  I'm guessing it's years down the road and most US docs, like my daughter's, would be very skeptical.

  • PJK
    New Member


    Date Joined Nov 2009
    Total Posts : 2
       Posted 11/6/2009 5:53 PM (GMT -7)   
    The vaccine is being developed by Professor John-Hermon Taylor. It has been shown to eradicate MAP in mice. If you want to read the paper he has recently published it is available free on the internet at:
     
     
     

    Carnival Huckster
    Regular Member


    Date Joined Oct 2009
    Total Posts : 159
       Posted 11/7/2009 10:04 AM (GMT -7)   
    I will be one of the first people in line for that vaccine!
    34 year old male
    Crohn's Disease for 12 years
    Current Medications: 9mg entocort
    Finatical SCD for past 90 days (on and off for 10 years)
    4,000 mg MSM for 30 days
    Vitamins E, D, C
    No surgeries


    PJK
    New Member


    Date Joined Nov 2009
    Total Posts : 2
       Posted 11/7/2009 12:57 PM (GMT -7)   
    Carnival Huckster spoke earlier [10/28/2009 6:35 PM (GMT -7)] of seeking treatment with antibiotics and how he was unable to get into the Myoconda drugs trial. I have been advised by a leading proponent of antibiotic therapy for CD:

    'MAP bugs are difficult to eradicate but treatment with Rifabutin 150mgs Clarithromycin 250mgs after breakfast, and Rifabutin 150mgs Clarithromycin 500mgs after supper will make about 70% of people with active CD better. Treatment needs to go on for at least 2½ years.'

    The above mentioned antibiotics are in common use. In the UK we would have to seek an appointment with a Consultant via our General Practitioner. We would then have to convince the Consultant that antibiotic therapy for CD is the only therapy than can heal mucosa (see Thomas Borody's paper 'Anti-mycobacterial therapy in Crohn's disease heals mucosa with longitudinal scars') and is the most appropriate treatment for CD. It might be different in the USA. Perhaps your doctor would be prepared to prescribe the antibiotics?

    chocolate_stains
    Regular Member


    Date Joined Dec 2008
    Total Posts : 61
       Posted 11/7/2009 2:21 PM (GMT -7)   
    Glad you enjoyed the videos jpnutritionfirst.

    There is an association. Meta-analyses have demonstrated this.

    Is the association causative? Other data also suggests that it is. Although, at this time, there is no way of objectively predicting what percentage of CD patients have their CD caused by MAP. Some speculate 30-40%, whereas others speculate as high as 90-95%.

    Check out Carol Nacy's presentation from the ICP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! And all the other videos if you have the time.

    -David

    ps Great to see in your signature that your son is currently med free EMom!!!!

    NostraHistoria
    Regular Member


    Date Joined Nov 2008
    Total Posts : 351
       Posted 11/7/2009 2:41 PM (GMT -7)   
    If anyone else has other videos, please share. This video was really nice to hear.
    27m - Dx January 2005: UC/Crohn's
    Humira, Entocort 9 mg, Asacol 4 x 3, Flagyl 250 mg x 3


    Keeper
    Veteran Member


    Date Joined Jun 2008
    Total Posts : 1058
       Posted 11/7/2009 2:55 PM (GMT -7)   
    The MAP protocol has a high rate of relapse and taking antibiotics for long periods has serious negative effects on your bowel health. Moreover, there is research showing that in Crohn's and UC there is a defect in the cascade of events that normally results in the elimination of the autoimmune cells that are responsible for the disease. The defect is slightly different in Crohn's versus Ulcerative Colitis - one happens just a step in the process after the other, but in the same process. You may need to register with the site to view the article, but after registration, the article can be viewed here: http://gut.bmj.com/cgi/content/full/53/11/1556

    This is a similar finding to the work of Dr. Denise Faustman. She discovered that it was possible to cure type I diabetes in mice using a protocol that targeted autoimmune cells. She is currently taking that idea through clinical trials and has completed phase I trials and begun phase II trials. For more info, see: http://www.faustmanlab.org/docs/newsletters/Faustman_updates_f09.pdf

    Escalador
    Regular Member


    Date Joined Jul 2009
    Total Posts : 103
       Posted 11/26/2009 6:52 AM (GMT -7)   
    I've made a small compilation of science papers avaliable for download that are connected with MAP and Crohns. Here's the list:
    1. Does Mycobacterium avium subspecies paratuberculosis cause Crohn’s disease?2. Severe recurrent Crohn’s disease of ileocolonic anastomosis and antimicrobial (antimycobacterial) therapy
    3. Resu...lts of Multiple Diagnostic Tests for Mycobacterium avium subsp. paratuberculosis in Patients with Inflammatory Bowel Disease and in Controls
    4. Anti-mycobacterial therapy in Crohn’s disease heals mucosa with longitudinal scars
    5. Treatment of severe Crohn's disease using antimycobacterial triple therapy - approaching a cure?
    6. Antimycobacterial Therapy in Crohn’s Disease: Game Over?
     
     
    2 more links
     
     
     
     

    riesasmom
    Regular Member


    Date Joined Dec 2009
    Total Posts : 44
       Posted 4/8/2010 6:10 AM (GMT -7)   
    Yes, I've seen these videos and read alot about MAP and RMAT therapy.It seems to be pretty convincing evidence. I took my 14 year old daughter yesterday to see her GI because of a flare and I went armed with print outs from the internet about this. I think it makes sense and feel like there is enough successes and proof that it can work. But her GI said he did research many years ago about it and it doesn't work. He also said it was risky to be on antibiotics for so long as it could make the gut worst. Then he suggested to think about Hookworm therapy if anything at all. I am willing to try anything like this, but feel more convinced about the RMAT therapy. I will try to discuss more with him next month in follow up visit.
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