for those of you who combine SCD and Maker's Diet

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Octobergirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 377
   Posted 10/31/2009 1:48 PM (GMT -7)   
Question for those of you who combine SCD and Maker's Diet-

It's been said that to do the SCD you need to follow it fanatically- I know the SCD and Maker's Diet have similar items on their food plans, but what about things that are allowed on the Maker's Diet and not on SCD. Does that totally defeat the purpose? For example, the Maker's Diet allows maple syrup, sweet potatoes, and buckwheat- all of which are not allowed on SCD. Also, I'm pretty sure no regular cow's milk cheese is allowed on the MD, while some are allowed on SCD. What are your opinions- do you think that you need to either pick one or the other? I like having a wider variety of foods to choose from, so I've been following what's on both.

Rider Fan
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Date Joined May 2008
Total Posts : 1445
   Posted 10/31/2009 1:55 PM (GMT -7)   
"maple syrup, sweet potatoes, and buckwheat"

These are all carbs which feed the bacteria that the SCD purports to starve out, so it I think yes it would defeat the purpose.

I would pick one or the other, so if one doesn't work you can switch.
33 y/o male. Dx'ed in 1999. No surgeries.

Current meds: Humira 2/27/09. Proferrin iron pills.

Tried SCD, didn't work, now avoiding gluten and dairy.


Go Saskatchewan Roughriders!


EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 10/31/2009 3:33 PM (GMT -7)   
Cow's milk cheese IS allowed on the MD, it just must be raw, aged cheese made from raw milk. You can find it at better health food and grocery stores.

Ironically, the one time my son tried raw, aged cheese, he felt it made him sick. Since then he will not eat cheese of any kind, but more due to MAP concerns...

Now, for the record, this is just my opinion here... wink ...Your question, "do you think that you either need to pick one or the other?"....I would answer, it depends. If you are in remission, I don't see why not choose from both diets (as long as you don't experience any adverse reactions from whatever you are introducing, of course!). If I was not in remission, I would stick to one or the other, and personally that would be the SCD for me. Again, jmo.

My son combines aspects of both diets and thankfully he's had great success. (He eats sprouted spelt bread, but that is the ONLY grain he eats. He does not like sweet potatoes, so that's out of the question! He has had maple syrup on rare occasions, but what's he gonna put it on? His spelt bread? lol! He just uses honey most of the time!)

That said, I think it's possible that there are some people who achieve remission on the SCD and, as Elaine puts forth, have to fanatically adhere to it to stay there.

If CrazyHarry is out there, he might have yet another slant on this!

I hope that helps a bit..... smilewinkgrin
Mom to 17 year old son diagnosed in June, 2007.
Omega 3s, digestive enzymes, probiotics, vit. C, calcium, vit. D3, a good multivitamin and SCD legal yogurt
Started The Maker's Diet in Sept. '07. Incorporate Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) recipes, too. Med-free.
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&m=984588
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&m=1533705
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&p=1&m=1262312


Carnival Huckster
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 159
   Posted 10/31/2009 4:55 PM (GMT -7)   
Hello, I have been doing the SCD finatically for 3 months and more casually for about 10 years. I have stuck to the SCD since it has worked for me and is more respected by the scientific community and therefore I can't really speak to the Maker's Diet since I have never tried it. I know for the SCD that some people can get away with experimenting with certain forbidden foods after being on the strict SCD and not having symptoms for at least a year, and preferably 2 years for Crohn's patients. If you are having symptoms, I would pick one and stick to it for a while finatically ... the last thing you want is to end up with complications from Crohn's (infections, obstructions, fistulas, etc) as those situations can turn into a mess very fast.
34 Year Old Male
Crohn's Disease for 12 Years
Current Medications: 9mg 6mg entocort (budesonide)
100% SCD for past 90 days (on and off for 10 years)
4,000 mg MSM for 30 days
Vitamins E, D, C
No surgeries


spookyh
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Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 1342
   Posted 10/31/2009 6:57 PM (GMT -7)   
I'd choose one of the diets, and then follow it fanatically for several months. If you don't improve, switch to the other one for several months. I don't think it would be a good idea to pick and choose from more then one diet if you're having active crohn's symptoms.

I'm not really familiar with the Maker's diet. But as far as SCD goes, there really is a wide variety of tasty legal foods. You just need to spend time in the kitchen making them :-). I'm going to make squash fries, squash chips, and carrot chips this week. And it's time to make another couple batches of frozen yogurt. Yum!
34 years old, Crohn's disease for 15 of them
Resection of ileocecal valve on 09/22/09
Current Meds: Pentasa, Effexor XR, Zyrtec
Supplements: 3 kinds of Fish Oil, Multi-Vitamin, B-Complex, Vitamins D, E, & K, Calcium, Magnesium, Enzymes
SCD since 12/01/08 - eating Stage 3 foods


Carnival Huckster
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 159
   Posted 10/31/2009 7:44 PM (GMT -7)   
Spooky -- you're so lucky you can eat the yogurt!! I haven't made it that far yet, but I made the carrot chips and they were effing fabulous. I actually posted my recipe on the Yahoo SCD forum recently. If you slice them with a vegetable peeler they turn out paper thin and crispy.
34 Year Old Male
Crohn's Disease for 12 Years
Current Medications: 9mg 6mg entocort (budesonide)
100% SCD for past 90 days (on and off for 10 years)
4,000 mg MSM for 30 days
Vitamins E, D, C
No surgeries


EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 10/31/2009 8:26 PM (GMT -7)   
CHuckster, you have piqued my curiosity with your carrot chips! Would you consider either emailing your recipe to me or posting it here if it's short?

Spooky, I accidentally made my last batch of yogurt with heavy whipping cream instead of half and half. Nobody liked it except me! I thought it was amazing! Have you ever made it with heavy cream? Technically it was half heavy cream, half whole milk. Very creamy, but I guess I'll go back to the half and half!

Carnival Huckster
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 159
   Posted 10/31/2009 8:54 PM (GMT -7)   
Oh, you have to try them!

1) Take 1 or 2 very large carrots (peeled)
2) Use a vegetable peeler to slice off PAPER THIN slices of carrot
3) Fry the carrot slices in oil until crispy and golden brown (be careful not to allow oil to become too hot or your chips will burn!)
4) Dab dry on paper towel to remove excess oil and toss with salt

In addition to carrots, this recipe can be prepared with other vegetables as well (radishes, squash, etc.)  Really it works with any vegetable that can be sliced paper thin with a peeler or similar kitchen appliance.
 
You can slice them either as flat rounds or long strips. If you do them as long strips, they come out like the potato straws that they have at fancy restaurants: http://www.jamieoliver.com/core/images/recipes/lrg_1321.jpg
34 year old male
Crohn's Disease for 12 years
Current Medications: 9mg 6mg entocort
Finatical SCD for past 90 days (on and off for 10 years)
4,000 mg MSM for 30 days
Vitamins E, D, C
No surgeries


spookyh
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 1342
   Posted 10/31/2009 8:59 PM (GMT -7)   
I haven't made it with heavy cream yet, but would like to. I use whole milk for the yogurt, and dripped 1/2 and 1/2 for the frozen yogurt. It's so good, I can't believe your family didn't like it!

The carrot chips, squash chips, etc. are just deep fried veggies :-). Slice them really thin (I have a mandoline) and fry in oil.
34 years old, Crohn's disease for 15 of them
Resection of ileocecal valve on 09/22/09
Current Meds: Pentasa, Effexor XR, Zyrtec
Supplements: 3 kinds of Fish Oil, Multi-Vitamin, B-Complex, Vitamins D, E, & K, Calcium, Magnesium, Enzymes
SCD since 12/01/08 - eating Stage 3 foods


Carnival Huckster
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 159
   Posted 10/31/2009 9:02 PM (GMT -7)   
Mandoline ... I've been looking for one of those. I didn't know that's what it is called! Have you tried it with other vegetables?
34 year old male
Crohn's Disease for 12 years
Current Medications: 9mg 6mg entocort
Finatical SCD for past 90 days (on and off for 10 years)
4,000 mg MSM for 30 days
Vitamins E, D, C
No surgeries


spookyh
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 1342
   Posted 10/31/2009 9:15 PM (GMT -7)   
I've only used it for carrots and squash so far, because I don't eat anything raw yet. It will come in incredibly useful once I start eating more stuff though!
34 years old, Crohn's disease for 15 of them
Resection of ileocecal valve on 09/22/09
Current Meds: Pentasa, Effexor XR, Zyrtec
Supplements: 3 kinds of Fish Oil, Multi-Vitamin, B-Complex, Vitamins D, E, & K, Calcium, Magnesium, Enzymes
SCD since 12/01/08 - eating Stage 3 foods


Keeper
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 1058
   Posted 10/31/2009 10:20 PM (GMT -7)   
about the diet - it seems that some latitude can be handled. The diet itself starts out extremely limited and adds foods as you become more healthy. The healthy gut has a certain tolerance for intestinal bacteria due to its natural barrier on the bacteria side of things which normally prevents contact between the gut contents and immune cells. The problems arise when this barrier is damaged or becomes more porous. The stage 5 SCD diet will still grow enough bacteria that are targeted by your immune system so that when there is a problem, you would need to go back to stage 1 again just to bring the bacteria under control and allow the mucosal barrier to be restored.

When you are just starting out on the diet, it seems like you can't eat anything that you would normally eat. This is because, besides the bacterial growth problem, you will have a number of food intolerances. These arise because of gut permeability which allows food particles to pass into the zone where immune cells recognize a foreign protein and form antibodies. Fortunately, it seems that food proteins do not usually cause a long term immune reaction. After a few weeks or a couple of months, those food intolerances fade. This may be due to the lack of bacterial cell walls around the food proteins, or something like that. These intolerances can recur if the gut becomes permeable again and allows food proteins to pass through again. The bacterial growth problem is more long term. The antibodies to those bacteria have a life on the order of 20 years, so controlling the growth of bacteria is really the point of the diet. However, once you are healthier, the bacteria will be tolerated a bit - at least until you have a problem that causes your gut barrier function to leak. Since stress can cause that, it is a bit of a time bomb.

Octobergirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Aug 2009
Total Posts : 377
   Posted 11/1/2009 12:12 PM (GMT -7)   
I appreciate all the feedback. I'm not sure what to do, because I feel good right now, but I'm trying to stick to those diets, I guess as some kind of safeguard. I'm currently on meds, so I don't know if it's just the medication that is making me feel better or the diet. If I don't have any reaction to certain foods, I don't know what to stick with. Maybe it's kind of strange for me to stick to these diets since I feel good right now?

That's another issue- how do you deal with going out with friends/family and eating? I've encountered a few times already where, even though these people know I'm trying to follow the diets, they invite us over for dinner and don't have anything I can eat. It's not even that they tried and had something accidentally added, it's been really starchy things like pizza or pasta. I guess I don't expect people to work around my diet, but I feel kind of uncomfortable bringing my own food or justifying why I am eating the way I am- only because I feel good right now. Is that strange? How do you guys deal with it?

spookyh
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 1342
   Posted 11/1/2009 2:41 PM (GMT -7)   
1. I eat ahead of time, and just have an iced tea or something while everyone eats their non SCD food.

or

2. Take my own food, since friends and family know I'm on a special diet

or

3. Eat what is SCD legal, although that may only be a hamburger patty with a slice of cheddar cheese on it.

I do have to deal with some people feeling guilty about eating in front of me, but I keep telling them that I don't feel bad about it, so why should they? There's no way I'd eat a slice of pizza just to fit in, because I would pay for it later. It's just not worth it. You shouldn't have to justify yourself. Family and friends should be understanding of the fact that you have a disease that you're trying to manage. If they're not, well, I guess I wouldn't worry about it too much. It isn't worth wrecking your health over.

Feeling good is what inspires me to stick to SCD. A year ago I was dealing with fistulas, fissures, constipation, etc. etc. I don't ever want to go back to that point.
34 years old, Crohn's disease for 15 of them
Resection of ileocecal valve on 09/22/09
Current Meds: Pentasa, Effexor XR, Zyrtec
Supplements: 3 kinds of Fish Oil, Multi-Vitamin, B-Complex, Vitamins D, E, & K, Calcium, Magnesium, Enzymes
SCD since 12/01/08 - eating Stage 3 foods


njmom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2006
Total Posts : 1884
   Posted 11/1/2009 5:07 PM (GMT -7)   
It is not possible to be on the Maker's Diet and on SCD. I agree with spookyhurst that you need to choose one, see what happens, then continue, discontinue, or discontinue and choose the other. 

EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 11/1/2009 5:30 PM (GMT -7)   
Octobergirl said...
That's another issue- how do you deal with going out with friends/family and eating? I've encountered a few times already where, even though these people know I'm trying to follow the diets, they invite us over for dinner and don't have anything I can eat. It's not even that they tried and had something accidentally added, it's been really starchy things like pizza or pasta. I guess I don't expect people to work around my diet, but I feel kind of uncomfortable bringing my own food or justifying why I am eating the way I am- only because I feel good right now. Is that strange? How do you guys deal with it?


I agree with spooky's points. Also, if they ask you in advance "what can I fix for you?", I just ask what they are preparing. This gives you the chance to plan ahead. If they're having all the junk you posted above, then you know to eat in advance or offer to bring a menu item that YOU can eat! If they mention that there will be burgers or chicken or something like that, then you know you get the night off! smilewinkgrin

We routinely travel with a small, medium or large cooler, depending on how long we'll be gone. No one will be offended if you take foods which are good for YOU. You just have to tell yourself there is no reason to feel awkward! wink

The main thing is to be strong! And when it comes to eating out, be assertive! Let them know which restaurants work better for you! It's soooo worth it in the end!

Carnival Huck, thanks for the recipe! I hope to try it this week!

spookyh
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 1342
   Posted 11/1/2009 7:06 PM (GMT -7)   
You could tell people you're gluten intolerant. It's pretty common these days, so most people should be familiar with what it entails. Or you could say you suffer from food allergies and need to be very careful with what you eat. Both of these "excuses" could be given when you bring your own food.

Someone on the BTVC board always takes her own food to things like church dinners, and if anyone asks, she says, "food allergies." She says people readily accept that answer and move on.

This summer, I went on a week long road trip. I took all my food in a cooler that could be plugged into the car and into a regular outlet. The only things I ate that I didn't bring with me was a burger at my aunts and uncles, and a steak from Outback Steakhouse. It was remarkably easy to do!
34 years old, Crohn's disease for 15 of them
Resection of ileocecal valve on 09/22/09
Current Meds: Pentasa, Effexor XR, Zyrtec
Supplements: 3 kinds of Fish Oil, Multi-Vitamin, B-Complex, Vitamins D, E, & K, Calcium, Magnesium, Enzymes
SCD since 12/01/08 - eating Stage 3 foods


Carnival Huckster
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 159
   Posted 11/1/2009 9:03 PM (GMT -7)   
At restaurants you can usually find at least one item that you should be able to eat. In a pinch, I even ate at Sabarros Pizza the other day ... had a great big salad (although I did have to bring my own dressing!)
34 year old male
Crohn's Disease for 12 years
Current Medications: 9mg 6mg entocort
Finatical SCD for past 90 days (on and off for 10 years)
4,000 mg MSM for 30 days
Vitamins E, D, C
No surgeries


justcallmeD
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 48
   Posted 11/1/2009 9:24 PM (GMT -7)   
im still really new to this forum, so please dont think this a stupid question, but where do i find information about these diets?, do i have to buy a book, or can it found on the internet?. i have been wondering if certain foods i eat are making me flare up. are there perticular foods that i should stay away from with chrohn's?

Carnival Huckster
Regular Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 159
   Posted 11/1/2009 9:27 PM (GMT -7)   
Hello, You can learn about the Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) intro here:

http://www.breakingtheviciouscycle.info/beginners_guide/the_intro_diet2.htm

There is a book called "Breaking the Vicious Cycle" that you can get on Amazon for more information. I highly recommend giving it a try.
34 year old male
Crohn's Disease for 12 years
Current Medications: 9mg 6mg entocort
Finatical SCD for past 90 days (on and off for 10 years)
4,000 mg MSM for 30 days
Vitamins E, D, C
No surgeries


Keeper
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jun 2008
Total Posts : 1058
   Posted 11/1/2009 11:06 PM (GMT -7)   
Don't forget the library. Reading the book is a good plan and a lot of people want to have a copy of their own, but to start, the library often has or can get a copy to look at first.

spookyh
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2008
Total Posts : 1342
   Posted 11/2/2009 3:12 PM (GMT -7)   
Breaking the Vicious Cycle is free online at http://www.scribd.com/doc/11844050/Breaking-the-Vicious-Cycle-by-the-late-Elaine-Gottschall#

If you create a free account, you can also download it.
34 years old, Crohn's disease for 15 of them
Resection of ileocecal valve on 09/22/09
Current Meds: Pentasa, Effexor XR, Zyrtec
Supplements: 3 kinds of Fish Oil, Multi-Vitamin, B-Complex, Vitamins D, E, & K, Calcium, Magnesium, Enzymes
SCD since 12/01/08 - eating Stage 3 foods

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