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FunGuy
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Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 1070
   Posted 11/26/2009 8:45 AM (GMT -7)   
 I came across this article and it is too technical for me.  If I am understanding it, it seems to boost my blue dye theory.  My premise: Since RA and Crohn's appear to be related AND since Blue1 dye seems to disable P2X7 does this support my theory that Blue dye # 1 will help Crohn's when used orally?  Again the following says that RA patients have a defect in P2X7 that results in increased sensitivity to ATP. This releases an inflammatory agent, IL-1beta into the blood.   Blue1 interupts the bond between ATP and P2X7.  Any tech people out there that can read this for me??  The last sentence I believe says it all.
 
Interleukin 1 beta (IL-1beta) is a proinflammatory cytokine that is considered to play an important role in the progression of rheumatoid arthritis (RA). A stimulus such as ATP is necessary to cause the release of mature IL-1beta, via activation of the P2X(7) receptor on monocytes. In this study, the production of IL-1beta in whole blood after ATP stimulation and expression of P2X(7) receptors in RA and healthy subjects were examined. Blood samples from RA patients or healthy controls were stimulated with ATP in the presence of lipopolysaccharide (LPS). Supernatants were harvested and IL-1beta levels were measured by enzyme-linked immunosorbent assay (ELISA). Expression of P2X(7) receptors was measured using flow cytometry. ATP induced significantly higher levels of IL-1beta in LPS-activated RA blood samples compared to controls. A significant up-regulation of P2X(7) receptor expression on mononuclear cells was observed after overnight incubation with ATP without any significant differences between RA patients and normals. These data suggest that RA patient mononuclear cells are more sensitive to ATP stimulation than healthy individuals perhaps due to genetic polymorphism in the P2X(7) gene.



I use FD&C Blue dye number 1 and it really seems to help me.  There is SCIENCE behind this.  Just ask me and I will explain it to you.  U/C and Crohn's for 34 years.  Blue dye for one month and I am feeling pretty good!  I am so excited by this but I need others to try it with their doctor's permission.  Simple food coloring!!  BLUE1.  
I can't make money on this, it's already in your kitchen.  I just want to help, especially the youngsters.
I do 2 drops in 6 ounces of water when I get up, 2 or 3 drops in 16 or 20 ounces of water that I sip all day and then 2 drops in 6 ounces of water at bedtime.   Max of 7 drops a day.


pimfram
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 506
   Posted 11/26/2009 9:30 AM (GMT -7)   
ATP activates P2X(7) and releases IL-1beta. In the study, they added ATP to RA and control (non-RA) blood and RA had higher levels of IL-1beta. Their theory is those with RA possibly have a P2X(7) gene that is more reactant to ATP.

A 30 second google search didn't come up with anything about Blue Dye inhibiting the activation of P2X(7) via ATP.
Diagnosed with CD July 2007
Currently on Remicade, Imuran, probiotics, folic acid, multivitamin.

Amor fati - Nietzsche


FunGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 1070
   Posted 11/26/2009 8:25 PM (GMT -7)   
The blue dye inhibiting P2X7 via ATP is here http://www.wired.com/wiredscience/2009/07/bluerats/

It would have to be done intravenously for RA but with Crohn's it could be applied, topically, to the intestines by simply drinking it in water. This is what I do as it says in my signature below. Took about 10 days for the intestines to "heal" to a point where I was feeling much better but the bleeding stopped very quickly. I feel worse when I stop the dye. I've tried stopping it several times. Anyway I think that article leads further evidence to my theory. Thank you for confirming what I was THOUGHT I was reading. P2X7,I have read is also responsible for the inflammation in Crohn's. ie. So many Crohn's people have RA. CONNECT THE DOTS! Any researchers out there?
I use FD&C Blue dye number 1 and it really seems to help me.  There is SCIENCE behind this.  Just ask me and I will explain it to you.  U/C and Crohn's for 34 years.  Blue dye for one month and I am feeling pretty good!  I am so excited by this but I need others to try it with their doctor's permission.  Simple food coloring!!  BLUE1.  
I can't make money on this, it's already in your kitchen.  I just want to help, especially the youngsters.
I do 2 drops in 6 ounces of water when I get up, 2 or 3 drops in 16 or 20 ounces of water that I sip all day and then 2 drops in 6 ounces of water at bedtime.   Max of 7 drops a day.


pimfram
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 506
   Posted 11/27/2009 1:55 PM (GMT -7)   
No problem, my cell bio class is finally paying off. Definitely something that researchers should be looking into.
Diagnosed with CD July 2007
Currently on Remicade, Imuran, probiotics, folic acid, multivitamin.

Amor fati - Nietzsche


Former58D
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 173
   Posted 11/27/2009 3:02 PM (GMT -7)   
Interesting, but not sure what to think. The study above implies that they did the tests in vitro which may or may not replicate what happens inside the body. Secondly, what affect does digestion have on the blue dye? What if inflammation is farther down in the colon?? Will it survive intact to be topical in the colon? Lastly, the FDA has a MedWatch on the use of Blue #1 in enteral feeding solutions, cautioning against its use with patients who are at risk for greater gut permeability. Use with caution. IMO.

I have a M. Ed in Exercise Physiology from UVA and I currently teach at the United States Military Academy.
"What can't be changed must be endured" - unknown

DX with distal Crohn's colitis Oct 2007, predominantly in rectum
Colozal (750mg): 3 pills 3xdaily
Cortifoam - 1 nightly
6MP - currently at 100mg and waiting for response......


BeeSting
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 392
   Posted 11/27/2009 3:08 PM (GMT -7)   
Remarkably, BBG is a derivative of the widely used food additive FD&C Blue number 1. Currently, more than 1 million pounds of FD&C blue dye No. 1 are consumed yearly in the United States, corresponding to a daily intake of 16 mg per person."

The only known toxicity is in patients with blood infections known as sepsis.
http://www.reuters.com/article/scienceNews/idUSTRE56Q60U20090727

Former58D
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2009
Total Posts : 173
   Posted 11/27/2009 5:19 PM (GMT -7)   
I did see that, BeeSting. The article I saw mentioned gut permeability as the issue and then used sepsis as the example.
"What can't be changed must be endured" - unknown

DX with distal Crohn's colitis Oct 2007, predominantly in rectum
Colozal (750mg): 3 pills 3xdaily
Cortifoam - 1 nightly
6MP - currently at 100mg and waiting for response......


FunGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 1070
   Posted 11/27/2009 7:23 PM (GMT -7)   
As far as making it's way to the colon, the evidence is visibly apparent in the feces. As for the gut permeablility, that is a real concern. Should Blue get into the blood it will cross the blood brain barrier and, if you checked the wired.com link above, it will turn you blue. RESEARCH NEEDS TO GET DONE ON THIS, I AGREE. That is what I am hoping will happen but I can't seem to get any traction. Surely someon on this forum knows someone who could get this started. Big problem, there is no money in this for Big pharma if it works. If fact they would lose tons of money.
Thanks for the additional information. I had not seen these FDA warnings or bee sting study.
Former58D  Any researchers in your venue that you could share this with??

Guy


BeeSting
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2008
Total Posts : 392
   Posted 11/28/2009 4:29 AM (GMT -7)   
Former58 D,
here's more examples on sepsis and blue dye no. 1:
http://chestjournal.chestpubs.org/content/125/2/793.full

Don't make up your mind to try blue dye no. 1 before you have read this article on sepsis/blue dye and death.
 
I also add following link:
Fun Guy has found more on Blue Dye no. 1,
which of course make me more sure why I want to avoid it:
 
 
 
 

Post Edited (BeeSting) : 11/28/2009 4:32:39 AM (GMT-7)


Nanners
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 14995
   Posted 11/28/2009 9:02 AM (GMT -7)   
Another post on blue dye from Funguy:

I found the following tonight that says blue dye can be dangerous to us. Now I don't know quite what to think except that this really needs to be researched. Nice to know I may be hurting myself here to make my stomach feel better. I think I will quit the test for a while and see how I feel.

Certain critically ill patients with altered gut permeability, such as those with sepsis, burns, shock, trauma, surgical interventions, renal failure, celiac sprue or inflammatory bowel disease, may be at increased risk of toxic effects from the blue dye test. The practicality and safety of different tests (e.g., glucose monitoring in secretions) and other blue dyes (methylene blue and FD&C Blue No. 2) is not yet clear.

Post Edited (FunGuy) : 11/27/2009 8:03:08 PM (GMT-7)


*Funguy* I moved this other post to this one, since they are the same subject*


FunGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 1070
   Posted 11/28/2009 5:12 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks Nanners and BeeSting. 
 
I have looked over the data and what I am seeing is that the deaths are very rare.  The two in the link that BeeSting posted above were both critcally ill and both received more than 90 drops per day of the Blue1.  While this CAN NOT BE IGNORED I am not critically ill and I use only 7 drops per day.  I am still going to lay off the dye for  a few days (today is day one) but my experience with this dye as a treatment and my "research" have been very positive.  Controlled tests must be done.  Again I don't think anyone should try this without medical supervision.  I don't think any big pharma will check this out since there is no $$$$$.   We need a true scientific setting to check it out.
 
Awsome people on the site here who looked stuff up and posted.  I am STILL EXCITED about THE POTENTIAL OF THE BLUE DYE.  And while I may be stupid, I am not stupid enough to not be concerned about the danger.  

LMills
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2008
Total Posts : 1753
   Posted 11/28/2009 8:07 PM (GMT -7)   
Concerning whether or not blue dye is beneficial, I'm assuming there must be quite a significant difference between #1 and #2 slightly akin to omegas 3 and 6. I read that #1 is good, but that #2 has detrimental effects.
Unless I misread something, but maybe someone can clear it up for me.
Diagnosed with Crohn's in May of 2008.
Currently taking: Prednisone, pentasa, omeprazole, and humira. Using probiotics and a multivitamin.
bonniegriffith.blogspot.com/
Learning how to live again.
"He who has a why to live for can bear with almost any how."


FunGuy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Oct 2009
Total Posts : 1070
   Posted 11/29/2009 9:42 AM (GMT -7)   
Hey Mills which article were you reading?  I will re-read it.  I have been Using Blue 1 for my gut.  From what I read they are completely different chemicals but that Blue1 was the chemical that killed those people.  As I said before though, the folks that died were VERY ill and the amount of dye in the two cases cited were both more that 91 drops a day as opposed to the 7 drops I used to use.  It appears that their intestines were permeable and allowed the dye to enter the bloodstream.  In their weakened state they could not handle this and suffered a fall of blood pressure.  Warning signs were blue or green urine as well as blue colored skin if I read correctly.
I don't believe these chemicals Blue1 or blue2 are good for you.  So many of our medications are a necessary evil to combat our diseases.  Kind of like biting off a foot to get out of a trap. 
If big Pharma was smart they would research this Blue1 for us and if they find it works they could send an instruction letter to the folks using their IBD meds on how to use it.  This would be great PR for them in a time when the public is becoming increasingly hostile.   Sheeeze!  Talk about a dreamer! 
Meanwhile, why in the world to they color all our food?  I used to drink Cola that had no dye.  It was crystal clear! I would be receptive to any line of food with no coloring in it.  I think the masses would never accept it though?
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