Confused about what to eat: Soluable vs Insoluable Fiber, etc and am I adding to my Inflammation?

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champagnekindofgal
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 1/31/2010 12:04 PM (GMT -7)   
So, I'm sure you are all tired about hearing about my flare. I was hospitalized on NYE for three days following severe abdominal pain/D/fever/throwing up bile for a week/dehydration/couldn't eat for two weeks, etc. My large bowel eventually shut down for five days prior to my hospitalization.
 
Put on IV steriods, released with 60mg prednisone, down to 55mg a month later, trying to get down to a lower dose.  Started 50 mg Imuran/6MP. 
 
My problem is that the prednisone is allowing me to eat things I normally couldn't eat and my appetite is out of control.  With that said, I still have abdominal discomfort and pain (but not the degree that it makes me to not wan to eat), gas, distention.  I keep trying different things.  I have formed stools due to the prednisone and have added, thanks to your advice, stool softentners, and a protein shake in the AM with fiber added. 
 
Should I be focusing on soluable and insoluable fiber (i.e. fresh veggies?)  Prior to this acute flare, I was in remission and lived off of fresh veggies and fish as well as whole grains.  Now, I'm not sure what is helping and what is hurting.
 
Today, I simply had a tuna sandwhich on whole grain bread.  I know the docs say to eat a low residual diet, but don't we need the fiber to massage the food through our intestines?  This all seems counter intuitive to me as I felt having a very high fiber diet helped keep my disease in remission.  Now in bad flare, I'm worried that I'm adding to inflammation by what I'm eating ...
 
Ideas?
Diagnosed with Crohn's 2004 via pill camera    Imuran (6MP) kicked into remission (along with modified diet) so went off in 2006.
 
2009/2010 acute flare and hospitalization - put back on Imuran. Currently taking 55 mg prednisone.
Current problem - protruding thrombosis hemorrhoid.
 
 
 


Zanne
Veteran Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 3763
   Posted 1/31/2010 12:32 PM (GMT -7)   
Being in remission and in a flare are quite different. Basically, the inside of your intestine is sore right now. Think of it like an ulcer. You want to put soft things over it, not rough things. That's why you eat low residue during a flare. The type of diet you can eat changes based on the stages of your disease. Personally, because I have had so much of my intestine removed I can not tolerate too much fiber in my diet at anytime. But others when not flaring, can have fiber. During a flare we all need to be careful though.

Do a google search on low residue/low fiber and that should give you some guide lines.
Suzanne

CD 20 years officially, 30 unofficially. 3 resections '93, '95 '97
Managing with strict low residue diet, keeping symptoms to a minimum. All test show small amount of ulceration, still have occasional blockages. But still have a great time with my 2 daughters and husband!


Prednisone, 6MP,Prevacid, B12 shots, Bentyl, Xifaxan.....


j_web
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2009
Total Posts : 205
   Posted 1/31/2010 12:44 PM (GMT -7)   
Insoluble fiber is basically fruit/vegetable skins and seeds and is going to be abrasive on your insides. The diet I try to follow recommends avoiding insoluble fiber, unless it has been cooked so soft that it can be easily mashed with a fork (think of canned green beans) - and avoid seeds and whole grains completely. On the other hand, soluble fiber is generally considered fine for us. I'm on prednisone too at the moment and am going to try to mix a couple of teaspoons of soluble fiber into my drinks to try to curb the hunger. It's definitely a challenge when you're hungry ALL the time.
CD since July 2007 - prenatal vitamins + extra vit. D, vit. C and iron, fish/flax oil, probiotics

Following excellent Omega-3 diet as per James Scala's 'The New Eating Right for the Bad Gut' - got me out of a flare.


Ankylos
New Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 19
   Posted 1/31/2010 1:02 PM (GMT -7)   
There is no dietary requirement for fiber; one does not "need" it to push food through the intestines, and some have speculated that it may do the opposite. Once food passes the duodenum into the small intestine, it should be liquid (see Wikipedia for information about "chyme") or nearly so. Fiber does the opposite, and there is some conjecture it may be responsible for certain types of disease such as diverticulosis.

Some cultures do not consume substantial vegetable matter at all- traditional Eskimo, the Masai, traditional Greenlanders, etc. These populations have proven to be very healthy throughout time; see Weston Price's "Nutrition and Physical Degeneration" (available free on the web).

Fiber has been given many health claims over the past few decades; the only one that has "stuck" based on research in the scientific literature is management of constipation. Even then, it could be argued that while it helps manage constipation in the short term, it simply makes things worse in the long run, causing things like hemorrhoids.

pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 1/31/2010 1:03 PM (GMT -7)   
You could do fibre supplements...that's what my GI told me to do and that was during a very severe flare...he told me to take fibre supplements daily and indefinitely and I have been for the last ish yrs now with benefit...of course at first it caused increased gas and bloating but mine was already accessive to begin with so more wasn't that big of a deal...this happens cuz your system is adjusting to it (it's normal and will pass), after 3 months (that's how long it took my system to adjust) no more bloating at all and very little gas, no mucous, less frequency, formed stools...the benefits outweigh the excesss discomfort of gas and bloating.

BTW, when you're all inflammed inside and with polyps, anything you eat really is going to be irritating, eating soft bananas or mashed potatoes (both fibre) is no worse than eating any other soft junky food, it's still going to move against your inflammed areas and obviously if having D rather than formed stools was best then that defeates the purpose of trying to get out of a flare and besides which it doesn't work that way anyways, D is also going to irritate as is passes inflammed areas.
 
Fibre aids with D or C, of course the worse your flare the less fibre you might want to have but you still need some fibre daily, it helps absorb the moisture of the D (aiding with forming your stools) and it helps sweep the bowels of bad bacteria and is necessary for bowel health.

:)


bee propolis caps 500mg one cap twice/day
omegas 369 caps one cap twice/day
probiotics 10 billion cfu once/day
vitamins C-calcium ascorbate (easy on the gut) and vitamin A each once/day
Prodiem fibre supplement one cap before bed
I've also altered my diet (no junky stuff at all, processed, fast-foods, refined sugars, ect) and exercise regularly.
I went from 30+ bloody BM's/day with lots of lower back pain to an average of 5/day no bleeding no back pain and completely formed stools, still have severe urgency issues.
~~~~~~~~My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)~~~~~~~~


NiceCupOfTea
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 8566
   Posted 1/31/2010 1:08 PM (GMT -7)   
I've been wondering about fibre and low residue diets lately.

To cut a long story short, I'm more scared of constipation/impaction than I am of pain, so a few weeks ago I increased my fibre intake - probably too much on some days. I've calmed down a bit now, but I still try to get about 3-4 portions of fruit/veg per day. I do make sure that vegetables are well-cooked and soft. Still eat fruit with its skin, nuts, seeds, etc. None of it seems to make much difference to me :/

The only thing I can say for certain is that eating lightly helps. It's a struggle, 'cos I still have my appetite -- be a lot easier if I could lose it. But the less I eat, the better I feel -- it's been that way for years. With my weight and height, I only need about 1200-1300 calories a day for maintenance and that's about what I'm eating.

You could always try a low residue diet for a week to see if your abdominal pain/discomfort goes away. That's what I've thought of trying. Another thing I've thought of trying is replacing one meal a day with a meal replacement supplement. But well, my pain has got a lot better recently, so I'm just leaving it for now - as always :-/

Edit: Re what Ankylos said about fibre. As a child and teenager, I suffered from severe constipation of the worst kind. I had a dreadful diet when young which had almost no fibre in it. It wasn't until I got to my late teens that I learnt about diet and fibre. I started to eat more fibre and, lo and behold, my misery-making constipation went away. True, five years later I got Crohn's >_>. But to be honest, I would rather have chronic diarrhoea than chronic constipation; for me personally, I can't rate fibre highly enough!

Post Edited (NiceCupOfTea) : 1/31/2010 1:19:10 PM (GMT-7)


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 1/31/2010 1:25 PM (GMT -7)   
Yeah, it takes a bit of time to see results from taking fibre, but fibre aids with D and C, fibre supplements have a mild (and I mean mild) laxative to ensure there will be no constipation....a mix of soluble and insoluble is always best but regardless if you can handle one better than the other then at least take it daily and you'll notice improvements from it...I sure did. Now I'm able to eat all fibreous foods and I still take my fibre supplement daily...the only thing you have to do is be careful to make sure you have balance in your diet, obviously you don't want to eat all fibre and nothing else, though that wouldn't necessarily hurt you or make you constipated, but our bodies do need balance. It's super important that you drink plenty of water daily too (especially drink a full glass if you use fibre supplements).

:)
bee propolis caps 500mg one cap twice/day
omegas 369 caps one cap twice/day
probiotics 10 billion cfu once/day
vitamins C-calcium ascorbate (easy on the gut) and vitamin A each once/day
Prodiem fibre supplement one cap before bed
I've also altered my diet (no junky stuff at all, processed, fast-foods, refined sugars, ect) and exercise regularly.
I went from 30+ bloody BM's/day with lots of lower back pain to an average of 5/day no bleeding no back pain and completely formed stools, still have severe urgency issues.
~~~~~~~~My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)~~~~~~~~


debilitated
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 448
   Posted 1/31/2010 1:33 PM (GMT -7)   
The type of Fiber me and Pb4 Take is Called "Calcium Polycarbophil"

500mg

Helps Bulk stool

champagnekindofgal
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 1/31/2010 4:53 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks for all your advice. I'm going on a low residual diet until my flare subsides ... just got back from the grocery store and stocked up on white bread, white rice, sweet potatoes, frozen veggies I can nuke (no corn!), ground turkey, eggs .... got to get this under control. I'm such a whole grain kind of gal (in addition to champagne!) that this way of eating is so hard for me ... the shake in the AM with soluable fiber and green food makes me feel a bit better about it ...
Diagnosed with Crohn's 2004 via pill camera    Imuran (6MP) kicked into remission (along with modified diet) so went off in 2006.
 
2009/2010 acute flare and hospitalization - put back on Imuran. Currently taking 55 mg prednisone.
Current problem - protruding thrombosis hemorrhoid.
 
 
 


MMMNAVY
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6927
   Posted 1/31/2010 4:56 PM (GMT -7)   
I am a heavy bleeder so fiber is a no go for me.
Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease/Thyroid Disorders:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…


NiceCupOfTea
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 8566
   Posted 1/31/2010 5:15 PM (GMT -7)   
Good luck with it, champagnekindofgal -- let us know if it works. Considering I've spent years training myself to like fruit and veggies, such a diet would be a bit strange to me too.

hld4good
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 193
   Posted 1/31/2010 6:09 PM (GMT -7)   
Oats are soluble fiber. Oatmeal and cheerios got me thru many late-night munchies.
Age 58, Crohn's since age 21
3 bowel resections, 1980,88,95
1 fistula repair, 2005
probiotic
digestive enzymes
L-glutamine powder 3 times a day
sublingual B-12 and B complex
2 T. cod liver oil
2 tsp. tart cherry juice concentrate
Multiple vitamin, 2,500mg vit. C, 1,000mg calcium mag.


pb4
Elite Member


Date Joined Feb 2004
Total Posts : 20576
   Posted 1/31/2010 6:25 PM (GMT -7)   
I guess the rule of thumb for many CDers is only being able to eat certain things and avoiding others while flaring...typically the saying goes "if it's white, it aint right" because it's so processed, but you gotta eat what you can handle...you can try to add fibre supplements as a start to see how things go (just remember to expect excess bloating and gas, it's normal) start with a small amount and drink plenty of water...I was having lots of symptoms still when I started fibre supplements and I faired pretty good from it, bleeding was no issue with it either....the only ones that need to use a little more caution is the stricturing/blockaging CDers, but even they need some fibre daily.

Good luck!


:)

?  What was edited from my reply?


bee propolis caps 500mg one cap twice/day
omegas 369 caps one cap twice/day
probiotics 10 billion cfu once/day
vitamins C-calcium ascorbate (easy on the gut) and vitamin A each once/day
Prodiem fibre supplement one cap before bed
I've also altered my diet (no junky stuff at all, processed, fast-foods, refined sugars, ect) and exercise regularly.
I went from 30+ bloody BM's/day with lots of lower back pain to an average of 5/day no bleeding no back pain and completely formed stools, still have severe urgency issues.
~~~~~~~~My bum is broken....there's a big crack down the middle of it! LOL :)~~~~~~~~

Post Edited (pb4) : 2/1/2010 12:03:13 PM (GMT-7)


champagnekindofgal
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 221
   Posted 2/1/2010 7:01 AM (GMT -7)   
After changing my diet yesterday, I saw decrease in pain already ... need to up fiber however .... thanks everyone!
Diagnosed with Crohn's 2004 via pill camera    Imuran (6MP) kicked into remission (along with modified diet) so went off in 2006.
 
2009/2010 acute flare and hospitalization - put back on Imuran. Currently taking 55 mg prednisone.
Current problem - protruding thrombosis hemorrhoid.
 
 
 


Nanners
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 14995
   Posted 2/1/2010 7:19 AM (GMT -7)   
I have the stricuring type of Crohns so fiber is NOT a friend of mine. I am currently in remission, but like Zanne I have to stay on a low res diet all the time because of the changes resections caused.
Gail*Nanners* Co-Moderator for Crohns Disease & Anxiety/Panic
Crohn's Disease for over 34 years. Currently on Asacol, Prilosec, Estrace, Prinivil, Diltiazem, Percoset prn for pain, Zofran, Phenergan, Probiotics, Calcium, Vit D, and Xanax prn. Resections in 2002 & 2005. Also diagnosed w/ Fibromyalgia, Osteoarthritis, & Anxiety. Currently my Crohns is in remission, but my joints are going crazy!
*Every tomorrow has two handles.  We can take hold of it by the handle of anxiety, or by the handle of faith"*

artist guy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 1373
   Posted 2/1/2010 10:56 AM (GMT -7)   
for me I've learned to eat 4 to 5 times aday small amounts, I'm 95% vegan, lots of grain such as quinoa and buckwheat groat, they're super high in protein and the softer of all the grains. I like a little crunch to my veggies, I know all the goodness is not cooked out of them. when my resection area is flareing i back off everything try to fast, it's good to let your stomach rest, at least 72hr's.

artist guy

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