Crohn's and lupus connection?

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ALgirl
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Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 3/28/2010 3:16 PM (GMT -6)   
While I was in the hospital I had so many tests done!  One was an abdominal ultrasound, which showed that my spleen was enlarged and my right kidney was small.  My surgeon suggested I be tested for lupus because my grandmother had it.  Is there a connection between Crohn's and lupus?  Can you have both at the same time, and if so do you have a lot more medical issues?

Diagnosed w/ Crohn's 2010
Current meds: Pentasa, prednisone taper


MMMNAVY
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Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6923
   Posted 3/28/2010 3:22 PM (GMT -6)   
There is the theory of autoimmune disease cascade (meaning that once you have one autoimmune issue you are more likely to have another), plus being on A-TNF drugs can also produce a lupus like syndrome that can make you ANA postive.
You can have both at the same time.
Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease/Thyroid Disorders:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…


gypsyfp
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Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 122
   Posted 3/28/2010 4:04 PM (GMT -6)   
My Grandma on my mother's side has lupus, so everyone thought I inherited my autoimmune disease problems from my mom's side of the family.
But I've also been told that Crohn's disease is more common in people of Eastern European and Jewish descent, which is my dad's side.
So maybe I got it on both sides! GO ME!
Diagnosed with typical Crohn's at 16.
Got lucky with Asacol for a year, then even luckier with ten years of relative remission.
Now abscesses and fistulas are having an "atypical" Crohn's party around my junk.
My HMO refused the Remicade and now I could be going on Lialda or sulfa? blah


heatmiser
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Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 1669
   Posted 3/28/2010 9:29 PM (GMT -6)   
Are you having any lupus symptoms?  This really caught my attention because I was also told that my right kidney is small.  At the time I hadn't yet been dxd with cd.  They only said I could not be a kidney donor.  Lately I have been having leg pain and other muscle pain plus a slight sunburn like face rash at times and am wondering if I might be in the beginning stages of lupus, although I haven't yet discussed this with my doctors yet.  I have tested positive for the ANA thing but they said that was the cd.

Dxd CD in 2003. Scope Aug/09 shows UC.
Meds: Colazal, prilosec, darvocet, prednisone, cipro, flagyl


ALgirl
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Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 3/28/2010 10:31 PM (GMT -6)   
I have had a facial flushing type rash suspicious for the butterfly rash for 10 years now off and on.  If I go in the sun for very long I get strange breakouts on my face.  I have woke up some days with a fever but nothing else than aches with it, i.e. I never am actually sick, just the fever.  I always feel as if I am way more tired than I should be for my age (34).  I never feel like I have enough energy.  I have in the back of my mind thought about it but never checked into it.  I am afraid that my mom had lupus too.  She had a lot of problems with facial rash too but a doctor thought she might have rosacea.  But lately before she passed away (unrelated - in a tragic car accident) she was having lots of problems with fatigue and aches and pains too. 

Diagnosed w/ Crohn's 2010
Current meds: Pentasa, prednisone taper


dunny2
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3200
   Posted 3/28/2010 10:32 PM (GMT -6)   
I have lupus, but as Navy said taking A-TNF drugs can cause this problem, as in my case. I wish you luck.
Vicky

Too many years with CD
Two bowel resections, several obstructions.
Fibromyalgia and recently diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis and lupus.
B12 Shots bi-weekly

Laughter is the brush that sweeps the cobwebs from our hearts...


ALgirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 3/28/2010 10:51 PM (GMT -6)   
Does anyone know if the steroids I have been on would cause a false negative ANA?  I have not had one done yet.
Diagnosed w/ Crohn's 2010
Current meds: Pentasa, prednisone taper


MMMNAVY
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Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6923
   Posted 3/28/2010 11:13 PM (GMT -6)   
I do not know, but I know my ANA numbers change with how much pain I am in.
Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease/Thyroid Disorders:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…


canadian1
New Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 1
   Posted 3/29/2010 2:13 AM (GMT -6)   
Definetley a big question. I literally was just told by my GI that I was going on remicade.  He said that remicade can increase ones risk of lupus. Honestly, he said so many things that i lost track. So as far as lupus connections go the only one I've heard of is if you take remicade. I myself have had chrohns for 15 16 years, i'm now 26. withing the next two weeks should start my remicade meds. little bit nervous, scared, but honestly all the crap i've had to deal with so far in my life it takes quite alot to scare me. Anyways, as far as lupus, only connection I've heard of is Remicade, hope that does something,  Kelvin 

dunny2
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3200
   Posted 3/29/2010 11:05 AM (GMT -6)   
It's not just remicade, it's any of the A-TNF meds, including Humira. The risk is small, but it's still there. Sometimes
it just cause lupus like symptoms, and once you stop the drug, you slowly return to normal. In other cases, like mine,
it's a firm diagnosis. BUT, I'm in the small minority group, and I have to say, while I was receiving treatment (Humira)
I did feel so much better, until the lupus symptoms began. So, I believe these drugs do work wonders...
Vicky

Too many years with CD
Two bowel resections, several obstructions.
Fibromyalgia and recently diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis and lupus.
B12 Shots bi-weekly

Laughter is the brush that sweeps the cobwebs from our hearts...


JaSanne
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Date Joined Oct 2006
Total Posts : 1388
   Posted 3/29/2010 11:41 AM (GMT -6)   
I would think steroids could interfere with ANA results, but I'm certainly not sure. I know my ANAs always came back positve, but I can't remember if I was on prednisone when I had any testing done. My secondary testings were neg. for lupus though.

Some of my symptoms are more like lupus than Crohn's, which is why I've been tested more than once. I don't know why other than I have a really mixed up immune system.
50 yr. old. Ileocolitis.  CD since early teens, misdx'd until age 36.  Hemicolectomy-left side in 2001.  Disease returned in 2003. Arthritis, episcleritis, chronic pain due to surgeries (nerve damage, adhesions) and disease.  Recently dx'd scoliosis.  History of endometriosis.  Severe depression past two years.


MMMNAVY
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6923
   Posted 3/29/2010 11:57 AM (GMT -6)   
You know they say that the drug inducted lupus should go away, but you know while it has back off it has not completely gone away.
Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease/Thyroid Disorders:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…


Becky77
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Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 1768
   Posted 3/29/2010 8:57 PM (GMT -6)   
Hmmm...I have a small right kidney also. Makes me wonder. I found out because I had an ultrasound and they compared my kidney size in CT's because they thought it seemed small. From what the radiologist said, it's about 2/3 the size of my left one.

Does kidney size have something to do with lupus?
Becky

32 yr old female-dx with Crohn's in '97 after emergency resection and appendectomy, 2nd resection '05, Bilateral pulmonary emboli 10/09
Currently on Humira, Omeprazole, Effexor, Seroquel, Calcium, Vit D
Coumadin stopped 3/15/10!!!!


dunny2
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Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3200
   Posted 3/29/2010 9:19 PM (GMT -6)   
Kidneys can be involved, (lupus nephritis) but I don't think size comes into it. IMHO.
Vicky

Too many years with CD
Two bowel resections, several obstructions.
Fibromyalgia and recently diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis and lupus.
B12 Shots bi-weekly

Laughter is the brush that sweeps the cobwebs from our hearts...


karasmommy
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Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 589
   Posted 3/30/2010 10:53 AM (GMT -6)   
YES - you can have both Lupus and Crohn's Disease - I have both and have NEVER been on Remicade, Humira, or any other Drug Inducing meds.

I was first diagnosed with Lupus and a year later Crohn's. It isn't common to have both together, especially if the Lupus is not Drug Induced from Remicade, Humira, etc. (according to my Rheumy). But if you have one Auto-immune disease you are more likely to get another one.

As for the Positive ANA, mine is ALWAYS positive regardless if I am on Pred, my Titre Rate from the ANA will go up and down depending on my disease activity and also my SED Rate will go up and down depending on if I am in a flare or not.

As for my Lupus symptoms - they differ from my Crohn's for sure - I have the Lupus Butterfly/Wolf Rash pretty much all the time, I have some Kidney involvement, joint pain (fingers, wrists, etc. - with the Crohn's I tend to get the weight bearing joint pain - knees, ankles and elbows) with some joint swelling, sun sensitivity and I get joint pain and exhaustion if I spend too much time in the sun, I can get exhausted at the drop of a hat and also tend to get deep muscle pains that come and go.

I don't believe that the size of your kidney's plays into anything Lupus - never heard of that one and I do have Kidney involvement and no one has every said anything about the size of my kidneys. :)

I take Methotrexate for both Crohn's and Lupus - it does work quite nicely and much better than the Immuran - for me that is :) Neither my GI or Rheumy would allow me to take Humira or Remicade as it would flare my Lupus symptoms.....

Questions let me know....
Ellen
Diagnosed with Lupus - April 2002
Diagnosed with Crohn's Disease (and all the lovely things that come with it) - January 2003 (problems since early 1990)
Fibromyalgia 2005 
Normal Meds:  Ambian 10mg, Flexeril 10mg as needed, Plaquenil 400mg, MTX 25mg Injection weekly, 1000mg Canasa Supp. as needed, Probiotics

Post Edited (karasmommy) : 3/30/2010 10:01:25 AM (GMT-6)


dunny2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3200
   Posted 3/30/2010 1:20 PM (GMT -6)   
Karasmommy, I have lupus. I have all the joint & muscle pain. The only rash I have is on the backs of my hands, and
my neck after being in the sun. My question is, my urine has always got 100+ protein, and large amounts of blood, cultures
always come back negative, and now I have bilateral flank pain, might this be anything to do with lupus?
I also have chronic pancreatitis that is flaring at present, and I know there could also be kidney involvement with that.
I would value your opinion as I'm a newcomer lupus. (12 months)

Many thanks.
Vicky

Too many years with CD
Two bowel resections, several obstructions.
Fibromyalgia and recently diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis and lupus.
B12 Shots bi-weekly

Laughter is the brush that sweeps the cobwebs from our hearts...


ALgirl
Regular Member


Date Joined Mar 2010
Total Posts : 105
   Posted 3/30/2010 1:52 PM (GMT -6)   
Karasmommy, thanks so much for the info.  I am planning on getting this looked into.  Mostly the doc was worried about the spleen enlargement and not the right kidney size.  I have never been on A-TNF drugs either.  I am aching terribly in my back and hips down my legs right now and it is hard to do anything.  Could that be related? Does sed rate have something to do with lupus too?  Mine was 40 when it was checked and the dr said 20 was normal.

Diagnosed w/ Crohn's 2010
Current meds: Pentasa, prednisone taper


karasmommy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2005
Total Posts : 589
   Posted 3/31/2010 10:23 AM (GMT -6)   
Dunny - the flank pain you are having could definitely be from Lupus - is it a constant or just on and off? I am guessing you see a Rheumatologist for the Lupus - have they sent you to a Nephrologist for the protein and blood in your urine? Might be a good ideal to see your Rheumy or at least talk to them about the pain. Are you taking any medicine for the Lupus? Plaquenil is my lifesaver for my joint pain and muscle pain.
Also the Lupus board on Healing Well is wonderful as the ladies that are on there have all different kinds of Lupus involvement.

ALGirl - the pain you are feeling could be joint related to a Rheumatological Disease. SED Rate does have to do with any type of Autoimmune disease - The higher the number it means there is some type of imflamation going on in your body. My sed rate will go sky high in a Lupus flare, but tends to stay lower in a Crohn's Flare.
Ellen
Diagnosed with Lupus - April 2002
Diagnosed with Crohn's Disease (and all the lovely things that come with it) - January 2003 (problems since early 1990)
Fibromyalgia 2005 
Normal Meds:  Ambian 10mg, Flexeril 10mg as needed, Plaquenil 400mg, MTX 25mg Injection weekly, 1000mg Canasa Supp. as needed, Probiotics


dunny2
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2007
Total Posts : 3200
   Posted 3/31/2010 8:33 PM (GMT -6)   
Thanks Karasmommy, I was thinking this needed further investigation. The pain right now is on & off, but when it's there
it's like a pulsating pain.
The only med I'm on for both cd & lupus is a maintenance dose of prednisone. They are a little concerned to give me much
more, as my crohns can only now be treated with surgery (if required). I've become extremely sensitive to drugs, and because
of the lupus I can't have any of the "Big guns" meds. I also have to be careful not to give my pancreas any more trouble.

Thanks for getting back to me...
Vicky

Too many years with CD
Two bowel resections, several obstructions.
Fibromyalgia and recently diagnosed with chronic pancreatitis and lupus.
B12 Shots bi-weekly

Laughter is the brush that sweeps the cobwebs from our hearts...

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