bacterial soil organisms

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jpnutritionfirst
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Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 383
   Posted 6/21/2010 8:53 PM (GMT -7)   
has anyone used bacterial soil organisms as discussed in the maker's diet?
Crohn's Colitis diagnosed 6/08
Organic SCD since 4/09
Remicade from 6/09 to 4/10
Boswellia + Natren's Healthy Trinity probiotic + Cinnamon + Wild Oregano Oil + vitamin D + zinc


CrohnieToo
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Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 9448
   Posted 6/22/2010 6:59 AM (GMT -7)   
*sigh* A good probiotic is worth while. The Maker's Diet is a scam. An expensive scam. This guy has been shut down more than once by FDA and then manages to find a way to surface and sell again.


My computer says I need to upgrade my brain to be compatible with its new software.


debilitated
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 448
   Posted 6/22/2010 7:03 AM (GMT -7)   
vsl #3. all i have to say.
Male, 22. Diagnosed with Crohn's officially since 2001.. Osteoporosis, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, Chronic Anemia.

Medications Used: Remicade, Humira, Cimzia, 6-mp, Pentasa, Flagyl, Prednisone, Zifaxan, Entocort,
TPN (Total Parenteral Nutrition), The whole nine.

Currently:, Entocort EC, Vitamin D, Fentanyl 12mcg / 72hrs, TPN, Cardizem
Currently On SSDI


MMMNAVY
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jul 2006
Total Posts : 6927
   Posted 6/22/2010 9:06 AM (GMT -7)   
there was something on quack watch about this...
Forum Co-moderator - Crohn's Disease/Thyroid Disorders:_All comments have the caveat contact your local health care provider.

I will find a way or make one. –Phillip Sidney 1554-1586

All that I am and all that I shall ever be, I owe to my Angel Mother.

The Bucket List- Have you found joy in your life?  Has your life brought joy to others?

Make sure your suffering has meaning…


CrohnieToo
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Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 9448
   Posted 6/22/2010 2:02 PM (GMT -7)   
I believe that VSL#3 is the ONLY probiotic that has actually undergone legitimate clinical trials and possibly even FDA approval. Its been so long ago since I remember reading about it.
My computer says I need to upgrade my brain to be compatible with its new software.


grumpygi
Regular Member


Date Joined May 2010
Total Posts : 266
   Posted 6/22/2010 6:55 PM (GMT -7)   
JP:  I bought all the "stuff" and have been apprehensive about taking them.  Tried to follow the guts and glory program specific to crohn's disease by same author - couldn't decide which side of the grass I needed to be on or was going to end up on. . .so back to eating food . . . kinda of . . . .
 
let me know what you think. . .  on bad days I still ponder the guts and glory/makers diet. 
newby


CrazyHarry
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Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 1034
   Posted 6/22/2010 9:17 PM (GMT -7)   
i strongly disagree with anyone who says the makers diet is a scam. i have independently repeated what the author of the book did. i was in my surgeons office about to schedule a colectomy when i wanted a day or two to collect my thoughts. i found the diet, did it, and have never felt better and kept my colon and have been med free for 2.5 years. what people dont like about him is that his schools for naturopathy are not quality schools. but shoot, you can go anywhere and get a medical license, you dont have to have a degree in engineering to be an engineer, most of your computer guys never went to college, etc etc. i find that the smartest people on any subject are self taught because they have a driving passion for the subject most people who go to school do not have. if you read his books you will learn a ton and see what he says is correct. if you research supplements, you'll see that garden of life is one of the quality brands out there. i have spoken with many doctors and practitioners and the people who have bad things to say about the makers diet or its author seem to be the ones who have an agenda, imho.

i have used HSOs found in the primal defense probiotic. did they help me? i dont know. i've used several probiotics, even VSL#3. i cannot say with any certain which one, if any one, is the one to use. i do believe using probiotics is a good thing and that there are good ones and bad ones. do the research and try it and convince yourself if you think it is worth the money.

the makers diet and the supplement company garden of life are two different things. no way is the makers diet a scam. read the book and learn about nutrition and you'll have your eyes opened. any supplement can be called a scam. most people are very ready and willing to cry fowl if they take something and it did not turn out to be the magic bullet they were hoping it was. sorry, but no supplement is. the name itself implies that - supplement. supplements are not licensed by the USDA, hence the disclaimer by law, so once a company becomes viable they get sued cos they are cutting into big pharma. everyone and everything makes false claims to sell products. do your homework. look at the claims on the sugary breakfast cereals sold to kids. hilarious. that should be criminal. so touche.
Crazy Harry

---------------------------------------------
Crohn's since 1993 (17 yrs old then)
surgery in July '05 - removal of 2 inches at ileum and 8 inches of sigmoid colon (had fistula into bladder)
Nov '05 developed colonic inertia; July '06 told i needed ostomy surgery
began maker's diet in August '06 - now feeling the best ever with no symptoms of colonic inertia and i kept my colon
med free as of 10/31/07


CrohnieToo
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 9448
   Posted 6/23/2010 5:10 AM (GMT -7)   
I would never argue the value probiotics can provide. I was saving fading newborn puppies who were dying due to their dams being on antibiotics when they were born long before we ever saw any mention of a probiotic to help w/Crohn's symptoms.

And I've never had a problem w/the theory that "too clean" an "environment" when young can contribute to a less effective immune system.

But this guy is a spam artist supreme.
My computer says I need to upgrade my brain to be compatible with its new software.


beave
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2007
Total Posts : 1091
   Posted 6/23/2010 12:23 PM (GMT -7)   
CrazyHarry, it's wonderful that you're doing so much better. But you cannot *definitively* contribute that to the diet or anything you are doing. You are simply a single case, and there could be all sorts of reasons why you suddenly improved, ie, it could be a coincidence. I know, it sure doesn't appear to be a coincidence, but until results such as yours are repeated in controlled studies, it doesn't mean much.

As a counterexample, consider this: I was pretty sick my senior year of high school. I then went to college, lived in a dorm, and started eating dorm/cafeteria food all the time. And I did great while I lived on campus. After three years on campus I moved off campus and greatly reduced the number of times I ate on-campus. And I started struggling a bit again. So, I guess that means I could write a book and claim that cafeteria food at the University of Kentucky is an effective treatment for Crohn's?

Roni
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 2480
   Posted 6/23/2010 6:33 PM (GMT -7)   
FDA did not shut down Jordan Rubin. As far as I've read, the FDA told Jordan Rubin to stop advertising that his probiotics and remedies can treat diseases. He still sells probiotics and digestive enzymes, etc, he just isn't allowed to say they treat diseases like medicine.
(Even though the probiotics really do help CD). This doesn't have anything to do with the actual diet, as far as I can tell.

The Maker's Diet promotes eating natural nutritional food, which is good for people, especially us crohnies who need more nutrition than the average Joe.

It's because of the Maker's Diet that I can actually eat grains and veggies and fruits after years and years of not being able to touch them.

Chronietoo, can you please explain what part of the maker's diet is a scam? and where did you get this info? Thanks!

Post Edited (Roni) : 6/23/2010 7:43:13 PM (GMT-6)


Roni
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 2480
   Posted 6/23/2010 6:36 PM (GMT -7)   
BTW, anyone know what is the diff between VSL #3 and Garden of Life Primal Defense?

exit 4
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 148
   Posted 6/23/2010 7:19 PM (GMT -7)   
I found something that sounds like soil org to me: Anyone ever heard of this?

http://www.mumio7.com/index1.html
Male, 45; UC 15 years, Lexapro helped with stress and UC.


CrazyHarry
Veteran Member


Date Joined Mar 2006
Total Posts : 1034
   Posted 6/23/2010 10:22 PM (GMT -7)   
beave -

i highly recommend you do write that book. i'd be interested in reading it. truly - no sarcasm. nutrition has become a hobby of mine. i too went away to school and lived in the dorms and all that stuff. i ate all the junk food and found foods that disagreed with me and stayed away from those. i was a normal "chronie".

i do think i am alone in the health i have regained by diet. call it the makers diet, the paleo diet, or a modified SCD if you will, cos the one thing they all have in common is getting off processed foods and sugars and eating food in its natural state. i took virtually every medicine dutifully for many many many many many many years and the only thing that worked was prednisone. it gave me osteoporosis and lots of other stuff too.

diet will not work wonders for everyone. we are too individualistic. we all respond to things differently too. but i do truly believe that it does help, even if one on the diet does not think so. for some it takes more time to change the balance of disease in the body. some try dietary means but cheat cos they are difficult and thus fail and say the diet is a scam.

i 100% contribute diet to my recuperation. i was looking at a colectomy. i was not getting better on any of the meds. i was taking double doses of remicade every 6-8 weeks and developed a fistula to my bladder - and it is supposed to heal and prevent fistulas (oh the irony). when i was told i needed a colectomy, the only change i made was diet and i saw noticeable improvement, albeit small, within a few days and it slowly snowballed. it cannot be an outlier or singular event when i mimicked what jordan rubin did. i tested his story and corroborated it. i'd write a book too cos there is so much to this we dont know and are trained to trust 100% the recommendations of our doctors when so much of this disease is unknown and guess work at best. anyhoo, i was 6-mp, remicade, and colozal when i did the makers diet. i had been on them for many many years (the 6-mp for over 13 years and the remicade for over 6 years). the diet did for ME what medicine could never do. so yes, i totally believe in the diet and the power of food. many people are skeptical cos it is too easy of a solution. and then doctors dont give it any credence. and like i said, they are hard so it is easy to cheat and that does not give the diet its true chance. not everyone responds the way i did or as fast as i did, but it works - and not just for crohns disease. once you look into nutrition, eating properly, like the makers diet - the way our ancestors did as early as 100 years ago, you will see that this is the proper way we are supposed to be eating and you will be healthier, even if you are not diagnosed with any kind of disease or ailment. this is the God's honest truth. feel free to disagree, that is fine, but i know from my experiences and research what has worked and what doesnt. diet works. worst case it helps.
Crazy Harry

---------------------------------------------
Crohn's since 1993 (17 yrs old then)
surgery in July '05 - removal of 2 inches at ileum and 8 inches of sigmoid colon (had fistula into bladder)
Nov '05 developed colonic inertia; July '06 told i needed ostomy surgery
began maker's diet in August '06 - now feeling the best ever with no symptoms of colonic inertia and i kept my colon
med free as of 10/31/07


EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 6/24/2010 8:12 AM (GMT -7)   
My son is yet another for whom diet has worked. He started on the Maker's Diet and we all learned a lot!!! I incorporate SCD recipes because there are so many books and online resources for it.

Perhaps his case was destined to be less severe, but we didn't want to gamble on it. Diet seemed an easy decision. This fall he will begin college and live in the dorms--eating dorm food. skull Thankfully he's had three years now of following this diet and understanding what the principles of it are. I firmly believe if he steers clear of junk and the "illegals", he will be fine. He will continue to take probiotics and even eat the SCD yogurt, for their beneficial bacteria.
Mom to 18 year old son diagnosed in June, 2007.
Omega 3s, digestive enzymes, probiotics, vit. C, calcium, vit. D3, a good multivitamin and SCD legal yogurt
Started The Maker's Diet in Sept. '07. Incorporate Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) recipes, too. Med-free.

Threads discussing diet:
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&m=984588
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&m=1533705
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&p=1&m=1262312


mireth
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2004
Total Posts : 25
   Posted 6/24/2010 9:39 AM (GMT -7)   
A nutrition buff since the 70s, I'd been using herbs and probiotics all along for "stomach problems." I was using Primal Defense probiotics when I landed in the ER the first time and finally headed down the path toward a diagnosis.
Female, age 58. Humira and low dose prednisone. Diagnosed mild crohn's ileitis in 04 after decades of mystery and misery. Also have inflammatory arthritis.


Roni
Veteran Member


Date Joined May 2003
Total Posts : 2480
   Posted 6/24/2010 9:40 AM (GMT -7)   
Emom - please keep us updated on your son's health, since his diet might be changing.

jpnutritionfirst
Regular Member


Date Joined Apr 2009
Total Posts : 383
   Posted 6/24/2010 10:08 AM (GMT -7)   
Just wanted to add that I've personally emailed about 10 people I've encountered who have specifically said that one of these diets didn't work for them (i.e. SCD, maker's) to see how long they tried it. The average answer was about 2-4 weeks. After being on SCD for about a year and 2 months, I can say that I did not notice any improvement whatsoever until 3-4 months in.
Crohn's Colitis diagnosed 6/08
Organic SCD since 4/09
Remicade from 6/09 to 4/10
Boswellia + Natren's Healthy Trinity probiotic + Cinnamon + Wild Oregano Oil + vitamin D + zinc


DaveF
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 1109
   Posted 6/24/2010 10:32 AM (GMT -7)   

I read Makers, Low Res and BTVC SCD.

 

In addition I read a great book called The Probiotics Revolution by Huffnegal. He is head of a research clinic focused on probiotics.  I would highly recommend this book for folks looking to understand how probiotics work and what the research has proven.

 

I have decided to go SCD but am incorporating some Makers. The recipes that are in Makers are mostly from Nourishing Traditions by Sally Fallon. Nourishing Traditions is a great book (thick book, lots of very healthy recipes, lots of complimentary information and explanations) . I am taking those recipes and preparing them in a SCD compliant way. I think this is helping me in the short term and I hope in the long term with my CD. I know not eating garbage has to be good for my general health. Even if SCD does not give me the results I hope for re CD I will not go back to eating garbage. I do not feel comfortable trusting my future to pills and will continue to do what I can do to positively impact my future.

 

I appreciate this debate and the different perspectives. I am still learning and want to know more, so the more info that is exchanged, the better. 

Thanks

David

 


Symptoms since I was 15 (now 50), 2 “definitive” IBS diagnoses but no treatment except “eat more broccoli, you are not getting enough roughage"..lol, CD in small bowel diagnoses with Pill Cam 06/2010, Kapidex 60mg, Prednisone starting at 40 mg (moving to 30 soon YEA!!), Pentasa 4,000 mg, Amitripyline 10 mg, SCD, Freeda  - Multi Vitamin  & 2000 UI D3,  Melatonin 9mg


EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 6/24/2010 2:13 PM (GMT -7)   
Roni said...
BTW, anyone know what is the diff between VSL#3 and Garden of Life Primal Defense?


Hi Roni! Yes, I will keep you updated!

As I recall, none of GOL's probiotics are all that high in total beneficial bacteria. Primal Defense Ultra has only 15 billion, although it has something like 12 strains. It also has the possibly controversial HSO (homeostatic soil organisms--I've read pros and cons).

VSL#3's capsules have 250 billion beneficial bacteria--the highest count on the market, to date. I can't remember how many strains...8?...10?....but enough.

I hope that helps!!! smilewinkgrin
Mom to 18 year old son diagnosed in June, 2007.
Omega 3s, digestive enzymes, probiotics, vit. C, calcium, vit. D3, a good multivitamin and SCD legal yogurt
Started The Maker's Diet in Sept. '07. Incorporate Specific Carbohydrate Diet (SCD) recipes, too. Med-free.

Threads discussing diet:
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&m=984588
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&m=1533705
http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&p=1&m=1262312


DaveF
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 1109
   Posted 6/25/2010 10:01 AM (GMT -7)   
A couple of other comments.
1) GOL is not SCD compliant so I stopped taking this
2) I understand that the highest probiotic count is in the SCD yogurt, even higher than VSL (although by design not as diverse as GOL). I would appreciate someone confirming or correcting my understanding
Thanks
David
 

Symptoms since I was 15 (now 50), 2 “definitive” IBS diagnoses but no treatment except “eat more broccoli, you are not getting enough roughage"..lol, CD in small bowel diagnoses with Pill Cam 06/2010, Kapidex 60mg, Prednisone 30 mg (tapering down over the next couple of months), Pentasa 4,000 mg, Amitripyline 10 mg, SCD, Freeda  - Multi Vitamin  & 2000 UI D3,  Melatonin 9mg


EMom
Veteran Member


Date Joined Aug 2007
Total Posts : 990
   Posted 6/25/2010 11:17 AM (GMT -7)   
You are right, Dave! I believe Elaine stated that there are something like 700-800 billion beneficial bacteria in one cup of the home-made yogurt. Hard to beat!

Technically, VSL#3 is not SCD "legal" either, but many are having success with it. Elaine didn't like the bifidus or bifidobacterium genus or strains, if I'm recalling correctly, and VSL#3 has it. Thankfully, this strain has not been a problem for my son. Others here have had great success with VSL#3, too.

Elaine seemed to feel that the lactobacillus genus are the most beneficial for IBD, and research since her death seems to bear that out. Does the book you are reading on probiotics favor lactobacillus?

Dave, you mentioned you have Sally Fallon's "Nourishing Traditions" book. There is a section in that book on making other fermented foods. It's awesome! Have you tried any of them? I never thought I'd actually LIKE sauerkraut, but we all do! And if you eat it with meat--as the article says--you'll notice how easy your meal is to digest. It's amazing!

DaveF
Veteran Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 1109
   Posted 6/25/2010 11:51 AM (GMT -7)   
EMOM,
I bought GOL Probiotics based on reading Makers and yes the Probiotics Revolution also calls for a more diversified set of Probiotics including lactobacillus. However, when I decided to really try to be "fanitacally compliant" re SCD I stopped the GOL and have gone SCD yogourmet twice per day.
Thank you for confrming my understaning re the # of benificial bacteria. I am taking so many darn pills these days it feels good to be getting the good stuff from food and not another pill :-)
I tried the lactose carrots she recommended as a first step, but I think it was getting ahead of myself re SCD level and decided to wait and try it again later. Right now I am all over the map. One day feeling pretty good and the next poorly. I know you SCD EMOM, do you think it is a good idea to back off on the lactose fermenting or do you think it would help given for me (even with all the darn meds) I am only at best doing ok? I really would appreciate your opinion
BTW, the lactose fermented carrots really are good.
Thank you
David

Symptoms since I was 15 (now 50), 2 “definitive” IBS diagnoses but no treatment except “eat more broccoli, you are not getting enough roughage"..lol, CD in small bowel diagnoses with Pill Cam 06/2010, Kapidex 60mg, Prednisone 30 mg (tapering down over the next couple of months), Pentasa 4,000 mg, Amitripyline 10 mg, SCD, Freeda  - Multi Vitamin  & 2000 UI D3,  Melatonin 9mg

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