Crohn's is Caused by a Virus

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timeiseverything
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   Posted 10/21/2010 7:52 AM (GMT -6)   
Three months ago an American researched accidentally discovered that Crohn's Disease is caused by a virus.
He has, in his own words, "opened Pandora's box".
 

CrohnieToo
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   Posted 10/21/2010 10:14 AM (GMT -6)   
idea   Interesting! Thanks for sharing this. yeah   This certainly could account for the complexity of this DD.
My computer says I need to upgrade my brain to be compatible with its new software.

njmom
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   Posted 10/21/2010 10:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Great find, thx! BUT just a minute - it wasn't caused ONLY by a virus.
 
As the study shows, first a genetic mutation had to exist and THEN they were exposed to a particular virus, but is was only when in addition to these factors, they were fed a toxic chemical, that this combination of factors caused the same symptoms as those found in inflammatory bowel disease. So it is really a combination of factors: genetic mutation + virus + chemical toxin which caused symptoms similar to Crohn's.  

comedybob
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   Posted 10/21/2010 10:38 AM (GMT -6)   
here in Edmonton, there is a study going on called the GEM Genetic Environmental Microbial study looking at this kind of correlation, focusing on parents and siblings of Crohn's patients. if a course of antibiotics clears it up until re-exposure to the bad bacteria... YAY.

Roni
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   Posted 10/21/2010 4:02 PM (GMT -6)   
Here's the US gov link about this study: http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/july2010/07122010crohns.htm

But what does this mean for us???

Post Edited (Roni) : 10/21/2010 4:18:14 PM (GMT-6)


timeiseverything
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   Posted 10/22/2010 11:22 PM (GMT -6)   
Let me preface this by saying this is my opinion. I am not advocating anyone take any action based on my opinions.

In my view, what it means is the drugs now being sold to treat the symptoms of Crohn's are definitely doing more harm than good... they are suppressing the immune system when it is trying to fight off an infection. In fact, studies show that people taking immune suppressing drugs have higher markers for infection and inflammation.

Because of this, I do not look for big pharma to throw money behind studies in this direction because they stand to lose a whole lot of money.

In addition, I believe the immune suppressing drugs can do more harm than good over time by allowing the infectious agents to take hold in other areas. Remember hearing or reading that if someone gets an autoimmune disease they are likely to get others? Well, there ya go.

Don't get me wrong, when things get really hairy/bad medication is necessary sometimes to help get things back under control, but I think using it as a method of maintenance is a mistake...

The body is a chemical factory. What goes in affects what comes out. Things like coffee, tea, sugar, soda, dairy, anything that creates acid in the body and is not even close to being natural should be expected to create problems. So, if you're eating those kinds of things you're doing it to yourself, it's a choice to make better choices. We have to live with a limiting disease just like most other people (those with diabetes, heart disease, high cholesterol, etc). If you're eating everything right but still suffer that's when it's REALLY frustrating.

Talk to your doctor about this latest finding. I've been saying for years that Crohn's is infectious. I just always thought it was bacterial, but viral makes a lot more sense.

By the way, donate blood to help others. As an aside, I've noticed that when I donate blood the inflammation in my body drops just from reducing my iron load. There are also studies that show heart health benefits for those that donate blood.

timeiseverything
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   Posted 10/22/2010 11:31 PM (GMT -6)   

There are genetic markers to all chonic illnesses, we've known that for a long time. 

The particular virus is in question in my mind at least.  There is some evidence that CMV, which is extremely prevalent in our society, may be another cause.  CMV has the exact same general symptoms and CMV colitis has the same specific symptoms as Crohn's so it raises a really big flag in my mind.  Because viruses are similar in so many ways in how they live in the body more than one particular virus can probably be a trigger.

My thoughts are the same for the toxin.  Generic food poisoning can probably trigger Crohn's, or other "autoimmune diseases" when theother two conditions are right. 

In fact, because everyone's genetic makeup is different and different viruses could be responsible for being a trigger, it would explain why the disease manifests itself differently in each person. 

Once the conditions are right there's little stopping it of course, except perhaps reducing the viral load to see if that will put things to sleep.

 There is also evidence that viruses play a part in other chronic illnesses.  It could get interesting for big pharma. 

njmom said...
Great find, thx! BUT just a minute - it wasn't caused ONLY by a virus.
 
As the study shows, first a genetic mutation had to exist and THEN they were exposed to a particular virus, but is was only when in addition to these factors, they were fed a toxic chemical, that this combination of factors caused the same symptoms as those found in inflammatory bowel disease. So it is really a combination of factors: genetic mutation + virus + chemical toxin which caused symptoms similar to Crohn's.  

pimfram
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   Posted 10/23/2010 12:49 AM (GMT -6)   
Interesting, but don't put too much value in one study in mice and try to apply it to humans. Hopefully it will lead to further studies and a possible cure in the future.
Diagnosed with CD July 2007
Currently on Remicade, acidophilus, multivitamin.
Resection December 2009

Amor fati - Nietzsche

Ari12
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Date Joined Oct 2010
Total Posts : 157
   Posted 10/23/2010 5:26 AM (GMT -6)   
My CD developed 8 years ago after an unknown infection. My immune system has never been able to respond to subsequent infections as quickly as before and simple antibiotics would cause more harm than good by promoting the growth of a fungus in my throat and tummy. On top of that, my WB count never shoots through the roof when I get sick. Therefore I tend to believe that it was a virus as nothing was found in the biopsies taken from ileum. I strongly oppose immuno-modulators, but find that steroids lower inflammation by a lot.

Makes you think. Don't it.

:-)
Living with CD for 8 years now. Currently on Asacol and Prednisone. Surgery due on Nov 3rd.

Medicalkid2
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   Posted 10/23/2010 1:15 PM (GMT -6)   
Im starting to believe into this as well.... I went on a mission trip to a foreign country and contracted what I thought was travelers diarrhea...yeah for 1.5 years..anyways my thoughts are I ate something with just the right virus to cause all the havic crohns has left with me...it's just to coincidal to not be true..

disneyfan00
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   Posted 10/23/2010 1:52 PM (GMT -6)   
I have always believed this with my DD 12. My youngest came down with a stomach bug and it passed in about 24 hours. It passed to my older DD(who was 9 at the time) and it just seemed to keep going and going. I was giving her ibuprofen pretty regularly for the fever also. She wound up losing tons of weight and was diagnosed a couple of months later with Crohns after getting a colonoscopy done.I dont know if it was a combo of the bug and the ibuprofen or what. Noone in my house uses ibuprofen anymore even though I have no proof.

Squattie
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   Posted 10/23/2010 3:50 PM (GMT -6)   
I've always had a touchy stomach. But my experience for symptoms was very similar to Disneyfan's DD. There was a stomach virus going around my community and everyone got over it except me. Cramping, the runs, aches, weight loss, ect. It went on for 3 months before I ended up in hospital diagnosed with crohn's. Prior to that I really didn't have much in the way of symptoms cept for the touchy tummy.
.....Squattie

Ari12
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   Posted 10/24/2010 4:43 AM (GMT -6)   
Yes, that's fine, but we are talking about 3 factors involved in it. Genetics, toxins and an additional infection on top of that. So it is true that Crohn's usually runs in the family, but it may well be true that there are some lucky ones like timeiseverything or myself -for that matter- who have contracted a virus, let it in on the proper bowel ground and topped up with toxic lifestyle...and that was how we got ourselves a new case of CD with NO history in the family.

:-)
Living with CD for 8 years now. Currently on Asacol and Prednisone. Surgery due on Nov 3rd.

IamCurious
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   Posted 10/24/2010 9:12 AM (GMT -6)   
Ari12,

Please check out the numerous threads about the immune system being strengthened and modulated by vitamin D. Many here and on the Ulcerative Colitis forum have been helped considerably after getting their blood levels up to the optimum level.
59 y/o male. DX ulcerative colitis Feb08, possible Crohn's colitis DX March 2010.
No Meds, allergic to Mesalamine. Allergy to shellfish contributed to 1st major flare.
Watch diet to maintain remission. Boswellia and psyllium seeds especially helpful.

E. Coli Nissle (Mutaflor), turmeric, fish oil, S. Boulardii, VSL3, resveratrol, multivitamin, extra D3, K2, C, high gamma E, magnesium, DGL, phosphatityl choline, glutamine. Lots of fruit and vegetables (but no plums), no soda, no HFCS, no trans fat, tea instead of coffee, few processed foods, no carrageenan.

Nature created all of the locks, therefore Nature has all of the keys

FunGuy
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   Posted 10/24/2010 9:51 AM (GMT -6)   
The way I am readng this is: "Genetic mutation, plus virus, plus toxin, PLUS bacteria cause the Crohn's LIKE disease in these mice. Let's all recall that antibiotics do NOTHING to inhibit virus activity.

Interesting indeed. The defect in Paneth cells is the most interesting to me. Regardless of the cause of their malfunction, these are the cells that regulate the bacteria in the gut according to this article. Stem cells or gene therapy might help???? Researchers would need to find out how to apply these therapies..
 
Ah!  I see this website posted by Roni above is much more clearly written.
 
http://www.nih.gov/researchmatters/july2010/07122010crohns.htm

Support stem cell research!!! Support public research ie universities. VOTE smart

Post Edited (FunGuy) : 10/24/2010 8:59:16 AM (GMT-6)


Roni
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   Posted 10/24/2010 9:57 AM (GMT -6)   
So basically, e1 with the gene (who doesn't yet have CD) should be vaccinated against all viruses, take tonnes of probiotics, and don't consume anything that is toxic ever again.

What I've been doing lately, is trying to kill (bacteria, viruses, and fungi) in my gut with oil of oregano, then repopulate with multi-blend probiotics. It's hard for me to tell how well it's working because I have a stricture. On the days I take O of O, I have less flare pain and fewer obstruction symptoms.

We can all inhibit bacterial overgrowth with a healthy natural diet with less sugar and processed/refined foods, (this is also what Maker's Diet and SCD do) but, like the mice in the sterile environment, we'd pretty much have to live in a bubble to be 100% safe.

What we need is gene therapy.

Post Edited (Roni) : 10/24/2010 9:00:58 AM (GMT-6)


timeiseverything
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   Posted 10/24/2010 10:00 AM (GMT -6)   

I too have the genetic markers; my mother had Crohn's.  I have also had good luck with Vitamin D3. 

Not withstanding the premise of the study I cited here, my thoughts continue to be in the way of... everyone has a "weak spot" genetically, given the right conditions (virus, bacteria, toxins, combination, etc) that weak spot can become problematic.  In the case of Crohn's, 80% of the immune system lives in the intestines, whatever the trigger the weak spot became/becomes "sick" and in the case of Crohn's, it's the immune system.  If the immune system continues to be bombarded, and it is everyday because that's it's job, it becomes weaker and weaker and cannont "catch up".  By reducing the load on the immune system it may have a chance to "catch up" and subsequently heal. 

I have many more thoughts in this direction but won't bore everyone with them:o)

 


FunGuy
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   Posted 10/24/2010 10:01 AM (GMT -6)   
I agree Roni. There isn't much that can't be cured with gene therapy if we knew which genes and how to apply or activate or whatever.

CrohnieToo
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   Posted 10/24/2010 2:57 PM (GMT -6)   
Er .... uhm .... about gene therapy .... keep in mind that it is gene therapy that has given us the tasteless, rock hard tomatoes w/the skin so tough you need a serrated knife to slice them. But they can be a pretty red color!
My computer says I need to upgrade my brain to be compatible with its new software.

Kiwi12
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   Posted 10/24/2010 3:30 PM (GMT -6)   
I have found this thread very interesting as I can actually tell you the day my crohns started in 1993 - in an asian country after a bout of food posioning. My family seem to be predisposed to gastrointestinal disease and if you add in a virus .... it sure fits us

Unfortunately living in asia I was misdiagnosed for 5 years during which time a lot of damage was already done.

I am intersted in the Vitamen D comments too as I don't know much about it. I have been given Vit D sometimes by my GI but thought it was because the drugs mean keeping out of sunlight <DOH>

Really interesting to hear what is going on out there in the big wide world :)

timeiseverything
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   Posted 10/24/2010 6:20 PM (GMT -6)   
I've used oil or oregano in the past.  I now use Grapefruit Seed Extract - all natural antibacterial, antimicrobial, antifungal, antiviral.  It is really powerful stuff.  You have to put it in gelatin caps to take it because it's so strong. 
 
Earlier this year I went in for a routine colonoscopy.  The doc found 2 areas that had healed and the main one (area where small and large intestine meet) to still be a problem.  I wondered if the GSE played a role in healing because I'd been taking really high doses for about 4 months. 
 
I also use activated charcoal frequently, but you have to watch out because it pulls minerals out of the body.

Roni
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   Posted 10/24/2010 8:46 PM (GMT -6)   
timeiseverything,

How is your cd inflammation and symptoms with the grapefruit see extract?
And why did you switch? Was the O of O not working?

timeiseverything
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   Posted 10/26/2010 7:43 AM (GMT -6)   
Hey Roni,
I can take higher doses of the Grapefruit Seed Extract.  Plus, because I ingest them instead of just putting under the tongue like O of O, they have more of an effect internally.  I have had really good results reducing inflammation with GSE.  Whenever symptoms rear up I start increasing the amount I take.  If you decide to try it increase the amount slowly and put in gelatin capsules because it is too bitter to take otherwise.
What got me started with GSE originally is... I was looking for a natural antibiotic, antiviral, antimicrobial, etc.  I didn't want to use synthetics regularly.  I had also noticed in the past that antioxidants are my very best friend with this disease.  GSE is both a potent anitoxidant and broad antimicrobial/viral/biotic so I am essentially accomplishing multiple things at once. 
Not to metion how good antioxidants are for overall health... good find.

kandc88
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Date Joined Sep 2008
Total Posts : 65
   Posted 10/29/2010 8:29 AM (GMT -6)   
s involved as I too did not have any symptoms prior to a food poisoning incident.  I find a virus contributing to the bacteria going out of whack,  very interesting in theory.

njmom
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Date Joined Apr 2006
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   Posted 10/29/2010 10:57 AM (GMT -6)   
how much GSE do you take?
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