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Alistair
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 43
   Posted 11/22/2011 8:09 AM (GMT -6)   
70% of people with Crohn's test positive for anti-Saccharomyces cerevisiae (baker's yeast) antibodies.

Does that mean avoiding foods with yeast can improve symptoms? Has anyone tried it or seen research papers about this?

Thanks.

Tommy13
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 82
   Posted 11/22/2011 10:12 AM (GMT -6)   
I found this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-saccharomyces_cerevisiae_antibodies (I know it's only wiki)

And and older post http://www.healingwell.com/community/default.aspx?f=17&m=1744043

No news at are really fresh though, :(

(If it's would be true I would like to have a cure that stop eating things with levure ! Adios bread, adios cake, farewell BEER! :( )

Edit : I'd like to know where you took your 70 % too ! Thanks ! :)

Post Edited (Tommy13) : 11/22/2011 8:25:37 AM (GMT-7)


Alistair
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 43
   Posted 11/22/2011 10:46 AM (GMT -6)   
Tommy13 said...
Edit : I'd like to know where you took your 70 % too ! Thanks ! :)

From here:

http://www.moavenandpartners.com/doctors/information_form/asca-testing-for-crohns-disease.shtml

"ASCA is positive in approximately 60-70% of patients with Crohn’s disease, 10-15% of patients with ulcerative colitis and only 0-5% of healthy control subjects."

Tommy13
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 82
   Posted 11/22/2011 12:06 PM (GMT -6)   
To answer your first question, I don't think it change something to eat some or not, since it just involve the antibodies in your body, once you've develop them, they're there for good anyway,

Padme
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 21
   Posted 11/22/2011 1:07 PM (GMT -6)   
I just test as having a yeast allergy so I am interested in this. I tested positive for on the Prometheus blood test and just had another to fully determine if I do have crohns.

Alistair
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 43
   Posted 11/22/2011 2:40 PM (GMT -6)   
Sorry if it's a silly question, but what is the Prometheus test?

Tommy13
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2011
Total Posts : 82
   Posted 11/22/2011 2:49 PM (GMT -6)   
 
 
*activated your link*

Post Edited By Moderator (Nanners) : 11/22/2011 1:03:13 PM (GMT-7)


big betty
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 461
   Posted 11/22/2011 6:37 PM (GMT -6)   
If you test positive on an IgG test for yeast, then you need to avoid consuming yeasts, foods rich in yeast like fermented foods, and fungi like mold,(cheeses,) and mushrooms.

The Prometheus tests include IgG and IgA sensitivities to yeast and IgG sensitivity to the flagellum of a bacteria. There is a relationship between having these sensitivities and a person's likelihood of having Crohn's and possibly intestinal permeability.

IgG sensitivity is an allergic reaction that takes place over a few hours or days rather than instantly, like happens with the kind of allergic reaction most people are familiar with. If you are IgG positive for yeast and eat some, you may not react right away so it is hard to tell what is causing the problem. In my case eating yeast made me gassy and bloated, plus gave me other IBS symptoms like D and having to go to the bathroom all day long. My whole day was about farting and pooping skull I feel so much better since having an ELISA test, (which in my case identified IgG antibodies in a few foods including yeasts), and cutting out those foods.

Most drs, even GI's don't seem to know about or be on board with testing for IgG antibodies. You can ask a naturopath for an IgG test, US Biotek is a reputable lab that makes test kits that include tests for many foods. Wishing you the best!

Padme
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 21
   Posted 11/22/2011 10:50 PM (GMT -6)   
The Prometheus test I am talking about coming back positive was the Prometheus serology 7. It is to be one of the tests gi use to see if you have crohns. Like everything, people debate on if it is accurate. I also had the IgG food allergy panel through Genova labs. That is how I found out I have a moderate allergic reaction to yeast. I just had another blood test that in newer that is to combine the prometheus, genetic markers and something else to determine if I do indeed have crohns. Not sure how reliable that test is. I should have the results in another week. Thankfully my gi is very educated about allergies and what not as he and his son have food allergies and gastro problem. And by the way my basic 8 food allergy test came back neg for food allergies. So he ordered the 88 food allergy test. Turns out I am highly allergic to rice(I now whos allergic to rice). The bad thing was I was on a gluten free diet with my wheat allergic daughter. Gluten free foods are all made with rice flour. And I was eating brown rice. So what I was hoping was going to make me better made me worse. It has only been 5 days off rice and I am feeling better. You just never know!

blueberrydecaf
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 255
   Posted 11/23/2011 12:36 AM (GMT -6)   
wild - just had a nautropath blood test and yeast was off the charts...could be something to that!
diagnosed 2003
vit D, calcium, iron when my tummy can handle it, salmon oil, multi vitamin
stopped Pentasa
now off of prednisone
now off azathioprine after breaking out in a rash
now off 6mp after breaking out in another rash...
on Remicade since January 24, 2011

big betty
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 461
   Posted 11/23/2011 7:31 AM (GMT -6)   
Glad you are feeling better after getting off the rice. I'm talking about the same Prometheus test you are- if you look into it some of those tests included are IgG and IgA tests for yeast "sensitivity". Were your food allergy tests in the form of the skin scratch kind, (IgE)?

The test provided by a naturopath or other doctor to find out if someone is making IgG antibodies to some of the foods they eat, (food intolerances), is called an ELISA test. For me eating foods I was making those antibodies for gave me IBS symptoms. Not sure how that affected the crohn's, but it was pretty miserable.

Blueberry, have you taken the yeast foods out of your diet and is it helping? Were you intolerant to other foods as well?

blueberrydecaf
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 255
   Posted 11/23/2011 9:38 AM (GMT -6)   
I must admit I haven't taken yeast out yet - I was feeling doubtful about the naturopath tests after doing some research - but after all this info I'm willing to give it a try! I was also sensitive to a couple other things but yeast was a severe reaction and off the charts!
I think I haven't changed it yet because bread is one of my safe foods (at least I thought) when I'm not feeling well and I haven't had the time to do the research to know what to replace it with. Now I'm motivated though just to see if it might make a difference!
I feel so restricted with this DD sometimes that I think I was hesitant to restrict myself further!
Will let you know how it goes - plan to start my no yeast experiment this weekend...
diagnosed 2003
vit D, calcium, iron when my tummy can handle it, salmon oil, multi vitamin
stopped Pentasa
now off of prednisone
now off azathioprine after breaking out in a rash
now off 6mp after breaking out in another rash...
on Remicade since January 24, 2011

big betty
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2010
Total Posts : 461
   Posted 11/23/2011 10:11 AM (GMT -6)   
I hear you about all of the restrictions we have to deal with. I wonder what effect the remicade will have on your ability to tolerate foods. Maybe it will help somehow and you will be able to eat more of the foods you couldn't previously. Hope so!

Some of the candita, (yeast free) diets seem pretty severe as they have you cut out sugars and foods that feed yeast as well. I just stay away from beer, wine, foods that obviously contain yeast and mold like bread and cheese and fermented foods. I miss pickles!! I was excited to hear that champagne made in the traditional way has the yeast removed in part of the process of making it, so I'm going to try some with Thanksgiving dinner. It will be my first drink in ages. If you see a gassy woman floating by Thanksgiving night with a wine glass in her hand that would be me.

blueberrydecaf
Regular Member


Date Joined Jan 2010
Total Posts : 255
   Posted 11/23/2011 11:15 AM (GMT -6)   
yum - let me know what kind of champagne - and enjoy!
Remicade has helped me eat a lot more things - but I can still only dabble with fruits and vegis - which is frustrating because I am one of those crhonnies that doesn't lose weight and needs to! Hard to do when you eat carbs and meat all the time! :)
Do all fermented foods (like pickles and cheese) have yeast?! Or are you also trying to stay away from molds?
I love pickles too.
Think I'll start with the bread, etc. I rarely drink but when I do it definitely has consequences - never thought about the yeast component!
diagnosed 2003
vit D, calcium, iron when my tummy can handle it, salmon oil, multi vitamin
stopped Pentasa
now off of prednisone
now off azathioprine after breaking out in a rash
now off 6mp after breaking out in another rash...
on Remicade since January 24, 2011

Padme
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 21
   Posted 11/23/2011 2:17 PM (GMT -6)   
There is this dr that runs the ibs treatment center in Washington. He finds that a large majority of his patients have food allergies or yeast problems. I wonder how close are ibd and ibs related. Both are a messed up I system. I wonder if ibs often leads to ibd. None the less both are systems of your body reacting to something. Even though I had a positive pattern for crohns on the Prlometheus none of my levels were high. However The igG for the yeast one it was 1 point below abnormal range. My yeast reaction on the allergy bloodwork was moderate. If I do have crohns I have a mild case and that might be seen by the blood work. I have been off basic yeast for 4 dys now but plan on eating it for thanksgiving day then off again till Christmas.

Nanners
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 14994
   Posted 11/23/2011 3:23 PM (GMT -6)   
No Padme, IBS and IBD are two totally different things and IBS does not lead to IBD. Although many are misdiagnosed with IBS when in reality its IBD. IBS does not cause the inflammation or damage that IBD does and IBS can be treated by modifying your lifestyle/diet. IBS is a functional disorder.

Could you possibly have Celiac disease? Have you been tested for it? Its done by blood test. I am not sure how accurate the Promethus tests are. Most are diagnosed by either colonoscopy or pill cam. If you have not had a pill cam done, I suggest getting one, as if the scope is inconclusive, most have gotten a more firm diagnosis from the pillcam. Good luck!
Gail*Nanners* Co-Moderator for Crohns Disease
Crohn's Disease for over 36 years. Currently on Asacol, Prilosec, Estrace, Atenolol, Percoset prn, Zofran, Phenergan, Probiotics, Calcium, Vit D, Folic Acid, Magnesium & Xanax prn. Resections in 2002 & 2005. Also diagnosed w/ Fibromyalgia, Osteoarthritis. Currently my Crohns is in remission, but my joints are going crazy

Keah
Veteran Member


Date Joined Nov 2003
Total Posts : 7314
   Posted 11/24/2011 1:34 AM (GMT -6)   
I have had a nightmare of a time in search of a Dx. For years I had all the classic symptoms of CD but neg biopsies and my Prometheus tests were inconclusive (Neg ANCA & ASCA, pos pANCA). ALmost 20 years ago I figured out that for some reason I just could not drink beer. I love it, but I got so sick when I drank it and over time, I would get sicker and sicker. This was not a typical hangover, but a sort of mimi-flare.
 
I was conpletely baffled when I learned that the ASCA test was for antibodies against Brewer's Yeast. I knew I couldn't drink beer, but my test were negative. It made no sense. Then finally this last time I got tested, the ASCA was positive.
 
My Doc wants me to try the SCD but I doubt I could live without any sugar, starch or grains. MAybe I should cut out the breads and other yest containing products and see how I do. Hmmm. Food for thought....literally.
Keah, who still does not have Crohn's!!!

Padme
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 21
   Posted 11/24/2011 11:47 PM (GMT -6)   
What do you mean by functional? Honestly I dont think think they have a clue what causes either ibd or ibs. And if bowel troubles are do to things we eat like yeast ten maybe it starts off as ibs with no inflammation but with years of irritation or the fact that you might get more sensitive to what you are eating then startes to cause inflammation. Inflammation is a symptom. You need to figure out what is causing the symptom. And for many with crohns diet does help. That is why do on different diets one being that elemental liquid diet. Adding solids slowing back into your diet to see what gives you problems and what doesn't . They also say that ibs is caused by emotions/stress. When I have had my episodes of what was/is ibs, stress was never an issue. And labor type pains should never be caused by stress! I know that may sound as if I am trying to sound nasty or argumentive. But I really do not mean it that way. I truly believe that the majority of our health problems are from the things we put in us. Or maybe that our mothers put in their system when we were in them. I have been tested for celiac. My daughter who has a wheat allergy will get the genetic test done in feb at her check up. She and my sister who has a wheat allergy were both neg for it all well. However the dr is no longer using the same lab as he was when they had their test done. He said in over 3 years he has never had a positive so he does not think they are doing it right as he said he has noticed with other tests like lymes disease. If her genetic test is positive then I will get genetic testing as well. However I am not sure I want that now that I am allergic to rice I would be left with nothing but veggies :(. I am not really excited about a pill cam. Swallowing pills is not my strong point. I was just told though that it is not too big. Sorry again if this sounded argumentive.

Nanners
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 14994
   Posted 11/25/2011 10:44 AM (GMT -6)   
Well Padme how long have you had Crohns??? I have had it for 36 years and I never had IBS before I was diagnosed with Crohns, and never even had IBS type symptoms until AFTER my resections. I went thru a nearly 20 year remission once, and did not have IBS type symptoms at all during that time. I could eat anything I wanted during that time, and never had a hint of my Crohns until right before I had my emergency resection back in 2002.

By the way, I do not follow any of the strict avoidence type diets. I follow a modified low residue and this works well for "me". As someone said on another post, this disease has taken so much from us, why take away more. I do well on this diet. I think my Crohns was triggered by my starting smoking at an early age. I think you are trying to simplfly this disease. I wish it was just becuz of what I ate, but after this many years with the disease I do not think that is true with me.

You are right those labor type pains are not IBS, as I experienced those during my obstructions. Thats why you should do the pill cam becuz it will show any disease activity in the small bowel where the scopes cannot reach. We have some 20 ft of small intestines that a scope can't reach. So I would put your fears aside, and get a pill cam and see if you can find out whats wrong with you. If you can do a colonoscopy, this test will seem like a walk in the park compared to a scope. Good luck!
Gail*Nanners* Co-Moderator for Crohns Disease
Crohn's Disease for over 36 years. Currently on Asacol, Prilosec, Estrace, Atenolol, Percoset prn, Zofran, Phenergan, Probiotics, Calcium, Vit D, Folic Acid, Magnesium & Xanax prn. Resections in 2002 & 2005. Also diagnosed w/ Fibromyalgia, Osteoarthritis. Currently my Crohns is in remission, but my joints are going crazy

Padme
Regular Member


Date Joined Nov 2011
Total Posts : 21
   Posted 11/25/2011 12:31 PM (GMT -6)   
First off with smoking, my mother smoked throughout her whole pregnancy with me. I was born 4-6 wks early I assume from that. I started smoking at 13 and since my parents both did thy never discouraged me. I quit smoking 6 years ago a my symptoms decreases about 3 years after that. And although they have increased some since may it is not a bad a it was before 3 yrs. 13years ago would have been my first symptom of rectal bleeding but no d. 2 years later a month after my first child was born I was in the bathroom for an hour or two with the labor like pains and d. My first episode of d in about 7 year. 4 yrs later at my worst I had my first colonoscopy that was normal except for a precancerous polyp. So every 5 yrs I need to get scoped. 3 yrs after that I had endoscope to check for possible stomach ulcer. Then en of July had my check up colonoscopy. I was also having alternating each 2 or so wks of d & c. Scope was clean. I don't know that I am trying to simplify the disease but more understand and try to figure out what could be causing some of it. All the symptoms of ibd are just that symptoms. They give it a name crohns but have don't know much about it. Whether it is diet or smoking or why I want to try and understand it more and to me it is just food. If taking yeast or wheat or what ever out of my diet and gives me less pain, miss less events and overall feel better then to me it is well worth it. What do you mean ibs symptoms? Aren't ibs symptom the same as ibd but less sever and with no inflammation? I understand ibd also has more symptoms like joint pain nd ibs does not. I hope I am making sense and thank you for feeding me more information. My dr has never mentioned doing the pill cam. He dx me with crohn on results rom stool and prometheus test. However he half retracted that when the new Prometheus test came out. http://www.datamonitor.com/store/News/prometheus_launches_new_ibd_diagnostic_test?productid=E48AD2B0-4481-48E9-8600-8F7EB562791B
He said gave me meds and told me to take if that came back positive. I may ask for the pill cam if that does come back neg. I am not nearly as bad as many of you are. I am only in the bathroom for and hour or two in pain with d. Not days. I have never woken up from it. No resection or anything like that.

Nanners
Elite Member


Date Joined Apr 2005
Total Posts : 14994
   Posted 11/25/2011 1:03 PM (GMT -6)   
Ooh you started smoking at the same age I did (13), I quit cold turkey after smoking 29 years. I have IBS type symptoms now when I eat something I shouldn't have, but thats becuz I have had some bowel removed and my guts are now more sensitive. I too avoid certain foods now, becuz I know what their effects will be later. i.e. Any type of corn. If certain foods are a trigger for you, then it is smart to avoid them. I am saying I do not take food items that may be illegal on one diet out of mine, if I have no issues with them.

Also I think our triggers are different among each of us. What one person has no issue eating, another might wind up in the ER becuz of it. I am not sure you are ever going to fully understand it. I believe there are a few different types of Crohns. For example I suffer with more stricturing type of Crohns, and never experienced a fistula or abscess or rectal issues. Also, I have heard those Prometheus tests are not very accurate. I sure hope you get the answers you are looking for soon. I hate to hear anyone suffering and not getting answers to whats wrong with them. Hugs!
Gail*Nanners* Co-Moderator for Crohns Disease
Crohn's Disease for over 36 years. Currently on Asacol, Prilosec, Estrace, Atenolol, Percoset prn, Zofran, Phenergan, Probiotics, Calcium, Vit D, Folic Acid, Magnesium & Xanax prn. Resections in 2002 & 2005. Also diagnosed w/ Fibromyalgia, Osteoarthritis. Currently my Crohns is in remission, but my joints are going crazy
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