does it get better?

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leaveorstay
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 12/27/2007 12:38 PM (GMT -7)   
This is the 3rd time I've started this post today. I have so much in my head and heart that needs to get out so that I can re-energize and start again. 6 months ago I finally was able to accept the fact that my wife suffers from depression.She told me 4 years ago when we 1st got together, but knowing nothing about the disease, I basically told her that was an excuse for taking pills and I wasn't having it.
 
In August, after 14 months of marriage things between her and I got pretty bad and led to me filing for divorce (which I quickly withdrew). Of course, that made things even WORSE and led to her brother- whose a rep for Eli Lilly (Cymbalta) calling me to talk about her condition. He explaining that she had quit taking her meds cold turkey and was probably going to cycle for awhile!! this led to me doing all the research in the world on Depression and truthfully, it was like a breath of fresh air to me because it at least gave me reason to believe that her unfair accusations, judgements, temper, lies, and irrational behavior wasn't a testament as to who she "really" is, instead its a real medical condition that we have to deal with. NO PROBLEM I THOUGHT. I'm a good guy, I love my wife more than I love my own self so I will definitely see her through this.
 
Ha- the joke is on me. I have literally memorized the textbook that I've created through websites like this, conversations with doctors, books, and conversations with people who also suffer from depression. Truth is- there is NOTHING I can do but continue to be treated like a piece of dirt until she finally accepts depression as a disease and not an indication that she is crazy. Before, when I didn't know anything about depression, she told me all about it as a disease and how I just need to bear with her. NOW- after seeing the hundreds of articles and bookmarked web pages about it that I've been on, she no longer believes she's depressed. Now her theory is that the whole world is mentally ill- including me.
 
My wife has always been an insecure person and it used to blow my mind. Honestly, this is one of the most beautiful women I have ever seen- seriously. She has a good job, nice house, nice car and all the material items that she said she's ever wanted. she really is the girl that everyone stares at wherever we go. The kids adore her, I adore her (even though every time I tell her this- which is every day, she shakes her head like "no you don't". We actually went to a marriage therapist and her big issue was that I think too highly of her. I couldn't believe it! Since we've been together we've always sent each other song lyrics and poems and I write her a love letter at least once a week. She told me to stop doing all of those things because she flat out doesn't believe any of it. Do you know how much that hurts?? Loving her is what keeps me strong- now I can;t even do that??
 
I guess what I'm doing is beginning to pay off though. We had a pretty dramatic incident happen a few days ago which led to her being arrested for 2nd degree felony assault against me. I brushed that off too as a side effect of her once again stopping her meds cold turkey (Cymbalta). It's funny- even the Cymbalta web site says that if you don't taper off of it- a serious event could happen- yet she denies that her, drunk, coming at me with a knife at 1am just because I ASKED (didn't yell) her to show me some affection (yes- I am dead serious) has anything to do with depression or the meds.  anyway- after her court date we talked for 2 hrs and most of it was her telling me that I should be with someone who can give me a better life and me telling her that person is HER! Then she tells me she regrets us getting married- but when I ask "do you want a divorce" she emphatically says NO! She finally basically admitted to feeling like she is weighing me down and feels guilty about it. I wanted to ask her why she won't just do something to change so that WE could be better- but I figured that just her admitting something like that was enough for one day.
 
that night she sat down and finally (after 4 years together) told me the stories of her childhood. about being unbelievbly physically abused by her parents, watching the same thing happen to her siblings, being constantly told that she was worthless- she literally had me in tears just knowing that she had to go through so much. Although she didn't present it this way- I feel like she wants me to know HOW and WHY she got to where she is now. Being who I am, I just want to help. My wife is the most AMAZING person I've ever been around and my 1st 3 years with her were enough to make me NEVER want to give up on her or us. Over the past 2 years we've bought a home, gotten married, have a gorgeous baby girl, and my 2 step children now refer to ME as daddy! I don't want to lose any of it but man... it's not easy constantly feeling rejected. I feel like she's doing to me- exactly what was done to her. No affection- just insults and threats, no support. Recently I've been discussing going to get my Masters degree in Counseling and she laughed at me and told me I'd be horrible at it. When I started to receive a few accolades at work this summer- she asked me to stop calling to tell her about them.
 
Her sex drive is gone- as is her affection which makes it even harder because I'm VERY affectionate. It used to be her favorite thing about me- we used to kiss and hug and play all the time and the kids loved it and so didn't she. Now I literally have to ask if she minds if I hug her. We didn't as much as touch on xmas day or the day after, so before leaving for work this morning I gave her a big hug which she broke off by saying "is the baby awake", and when I called her a few minutes ago just to tell her I was thinking about her- the response was "the dishwasher is broken".
 
Can ANYONE PLEASE tell me a reason to think that the rest of my life will not be JUST LIKE THIS. I woke up 2 months ago in tears. She asked what was wrong and all I could get out was "I miss my wife". 2 months later- I miss her even more and it sucks to know that the depression doesn't allow her to care.
 
thank you for your time
 
 
    

getting by
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 40598
   Posted 12/27/2007 1:28 PM (GMT -7)   
Will your wife go to counseling? She mitght need a different anti depressant. It sounds like she really needs to talk to somebody. It wounds like her self esteem is really low right now and she is easily irritated. Give her some space, this could all change. But try to get her to seek counseling.

I hope this helps
hugs,
getting by
fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, clinically depressed and allergies


leaveorstay
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 12/27/2007 1:51 PM (GMT -7)   
Thank you for responding.

She's been in and out of counseling since she was 16 (she's 30 now). I'm praying she starts again SOON but like I said, she's convinced herself that she's no different than the rest of the world and that we are "ALL A BIT CRAZY".

I've basically resigned myself to housework and playing with my daughter whenever we're all home together. It keeps me out of her hair and allows her to do her own thing.

We decided last week that we'd start marriage counseling AGAIN- which is a start. Although I've been afraid to tell her that I made the appt becuase I KNOW she's going to change her mind about going. We'll see tonight.

Can anyone tell me if they've seen someone recover from depression?? I know that your not supposed to say "snap out of it", but is that what actually happens?? Is there a trigger toward recovery? In talks of late my wife has been really telling me more and more about the guilt and things that she's been holding on to for years and I'm SURE that has a lot to do with what goes on in her mental. I'm hoping that just talking about it is helping her release

getting by
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 40598
   Posted 12/27/2007 2:34 PM (GMT -7)   
Talking about it is good. Everybody has their own way of healing. There are no rules. When you are depressed all you want is to be left alone. That is no bodys fault, that is just how it is. Let her do the talking, don't try to force her. And there is no snapping out of it. It might seem to be all of a sudden, but you have to work towards it at some point or another. Her talking about it is a start. So don't get discouraged. It is hard to watch somebody be depressed. Some times the other person needs therapy to help them deal with it. So the marraige counseling is a good thing, mention some one on one for you and her. You both need support right now from an objective point.

I wish you the best.

hugs,

getting by
fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, clinically depressed and allergies


Wifeofdepression
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 144
   Posted 12/27/2007 5:46 PM (GMT -7)   
I wonder the same thing!!! It does not seem like it will ever get any better. I really want to see someone post a happy ending.

getting by
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 40598
   Posted 12/27/2007 7:22 PM (GMT -7)   
You will have a happy ending, it just takes time. Maybe she would be interested in posting on here. Or do you think it will upset her if you were to mention it? I think the work is in progress, just don't give up on her. It just takes time and it isn't a fast process. She will heal and you will have your wife back. You are a good husband to be so patient. We know that isn't easy.
hugs to you
getting by
fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, clinically depressed and allergies


leaveorstay
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 12/27/2007 8:33 PM (GMT -7)   
Thanks again. I'm trying so hard to keep the faith but it's literally the greatest challenge of my life. I've recently begun reading the bible and what I've learned is before we can enter heaven- we must feel hell. I look at this as my fire before the blessing.
 
When I got home from work tonight there was a Department of Family Services worker here to interview our family about my wife's knife wielding incident. She wouldn't even speak to me and here I am defending her left and right. He told me that she seemed really interested in getting marriage counseling. Great sign right?
 
So she comes home and eventually comes down to talk to me as I'm painting the basement. She tells me she wants to go to Disneyland for Christmas next year because the kids are so unappreciative of the gifts they just got and they always want more (funny- I tell her the same thing about herself all the time). HELLO- they just received  a ton of gift cards and want to go spend them. They are 10 and 8, is this not how kids are????
 
We chat for a minute and I tell her that I got in touch with the counselor we were referred to and I made an appt and asked if she'd be available. She rolls her eyes at me, says "I don't know" and walks back upstairs. 10 minutes later, I'm in the shower- she walks in and flirts. The inconsistency is unbelievable.
 
Again- I'm sorry for sounding like a whiner or complainer. As I'm sure most of you know- every day is truly taxing and I obviously needed today to just tell my story. Please continue to send encouragement. Like I said above- my wife's whole family has already told me to give up, our last marriage counselor told me the same thing and her closest friends told me she will never get better because this is all she knows.  The only people telling me to stay and fight for my wife are my mother and brother- and I know that they are getting to the breaking point with her as well. What they don't realize is that I could NEVER live with myself if I left her when I know all she needs is someone to prove that they will never leave!
 
 

getting by
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 40598
   Posted 12/27/2007 8:55 PM (GMT -7)   
Do you think that your wife might be bipolar? On the bipolar forum there is a thread that takes you to a link that describes symptoms. You might want to check it out. It is just that her actions seem to go from dpressed to euphoric. Thought it might help you to read that if you haven't already.
I can't believe that so many are telling you to give up. Do you plan to continue to be there for her? Do you think that she will go to the counseling? I hope that she opens up to you more, this will help. It sounds like she went through a lot growing up. Did I ask you if she would post on here? I think it would help her to open up because you are talking to people that don't know you and that makes it easier.
I really wish you the best. Keep trying and let us know what happens.
getting by
fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, clinically depressed and allergies


Honey Bee
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 114
   Posted 12/28/2007 3:35 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi there leaveorstay

I am sorry to hear that you are having such a hard time of things at the moment.

I would also suggest hopping onto the Bipolar forum and read a few stories over there. Her moods do sound like they can be all over the place from the bits you have shared and often it is easy just to miss the 'mania' side of the scale and just focus on the depression. If you think about it in more detail are there other fairly regular occasions where she seems to 'swing' from one end of the scale of depression to the other end i.e. mania/euphoria. These periods can be close together or months apart for BP sufferers. I am not saying she is BP obviously just that 'getting by' may be onto something for you.

I have been living with my Bipolar Type 1 hubby for over 20 years and having just lived through the worst year of our lives in terms of his longest suicidal depression (14 months) I completely understand what a total nightmare life can be sometimes. You (well me anyway) end up focussing totally on trying to keep that person happy and around and walk on eggshells at the exclusion of your own mental and physical well being. My wonderful hubbie was only diagnosed 2.5 years ago so for many many years we just lived totally in the dark and I could never understand where his moods and behaviour towards me came from. I am a long way from perfect but some of the cruel things he used to say to me that stayed with me for a long time cut really deeply but the strange thing was after these type of events he would almost 'forget' that he had behaved in this way and genuinely could not see why I was so upset. He is actually an extremely loving and touchy feely kind of guy but during the depression and mania he can become totally cold and almost uncaring towards me like I could walk out the house there and then he would not blink. That more than anything freaked me out for a long time especially as most of the time he was so loving and would tell me constantly that he could not imagine ever living without me!!

I can tell from your posts that you are a really caring guy and an unbelievably supportive husband and yes I can also believe that so many people are telling you to give up on her. My parents and sister have spent the past 20 years on an ongoing basis trying to break my hubbie and I up. I feel extremely resentful towards them for this (and in fact now live 10,000 miles away and this is a big part of the reason) but now that I am older (38) I can understand a little how hard it must be for parents to see their child seemingly having such a tough and unappreciated life when they could maybe be with someone 'better' in their eyes. What they have NEVER seen with us and lets face it who really knows what goes on with a couple behind close doors is all of the wonderful times and experiences we have shared together in addition to the bad times. You don't have to suffer from a mental illness either to have a difficult marriage!!

Living with someone suffering from mental illness can be tough, even with treatment it is definately not the end of the problems and I know now that I am going to be on an emotional rollercoaster with my hubbie forever. BUT the big difference for me is that I can stay with him because he now appreciates his illness and takes ownership of it which makes a HUGE difference in how I cope with it. I think that if your wife appreciated how patient and understanding you were and that she has an illness (chemical imbalance with her brain chemistry) that is no different from diabetes for example in that you have to take medication to put that chemistry right, then I think you would feel a whole lot better about living with her when she is suffering in periods like this and maybe be able to distance yourself from her behaviour and accept that it is not always your 'fault'. It is very very easy for people when they are in these moods to look at their hubbie/life etc and blame it on that as there is nearly always something wrong at some point in your life, ie. money, career, famiy, deaths, health problems to blame the depression on.

Actually the one major thing that finally made my hubbie realise that he had a problem was when we had changed our lives completely, moved away from his very dysfunctional family, were living in a tropical environment with lots of sun, he had a decent career etc etc and yet he still felt very very depressed. It was only then looking at his life that he thought that his depression was not due to his environment but could be totally unconnected. At this time we did not even have all of the info we have now about depression and thought ourselves that it could only be caused by what was going in a persons life. Obviously this can still cause depressive periods for people and so I still think a lot of people are misinformed that for some who suffer longer term depressive episodes that the majority of the time it is totally unconnected with their personal situation and is just the brain chemicals playing up.

There are a few hopeful clues I think in what you have said about your wife appreciating that she sometimes hints that she thinks you would be better off without her that at least shows that sometimes she seems to be lucid about her behaviour but I know from my own experience that this can disappear in an instant so you really never know where you are with her.

For the first time in many years when my hubbie visited the doc (which by pure chance was a stand in and very straight talking) he had a bipolar wife and he sat my hubbie down and told him in very honest terms about the depression/BP etc and that he should never let me go/not appreciate me as once on his own it was a downward spiral that he would probably never recover from. Meaning that whilst your wife has you to at least keep her a little 'in check' as it were she is still living in some reality. If she ever ended up alone she would very quickly probably deteriorate into a more delusional state of mind where she was totally disconnected from what is acceptable and not if you get my meaning.

Also if she is Bipolar and is only taking an anti-depressant then that can be very bad news sometimes - is this the case and if so do you think that led her to go off the other end of the scale (the knife incident). If BP is not diagnosed properly and most BP people only go to their docs when they are depressed. The doc doesn't probe enough, prescribes ADs and then they gradually raise the persons mood until they are manic and can often end up in hospital or worse. Just another thought? Does she get very agitated, can't sleep properly for example at times?

It is really sad to hear of her childhood abuse and again some of the things you mention like very low self esteem ring so true with the way my hubbie acts as well. He was not physically abused unlike your wife but was mentally abused for many years. Nothing he did was ever good enough and his father constantly put him down. He never got praise and was made to feel totally worthless. Like you and your wife who sounds like she has a lot going for her so does my hubbie, he is extremely creative, very clever and talented in so many areas but TRULY believes still to this day that he is TOTALLY WORTHLESS and that I and 'the world' in general would be better off without him. I didn't understand this for many years but it TOTALLY stems from the way his father treated him and I am afraid that it is too late now to turn these things around. Your wife certainly sounds like she has a lot of very disturbing issues to deal with in relation to her family and again until she has done this I am not sure how successful she is going to be with your own little family. You don't say much about her interactions with your daughter but hopefully she is not repeating history as it were and treating her in the only way she knows how which is how her family treated her.

Sorry for the long post but one final thing, usually mental illness has a long history going back through generations. Obviously you cannot forgive how she was treated but if her own parents, grandparents suffered from depression etc which is often the case then the cycle often repeats itself. Do you have any knowledge of this and if so did anyone of these people undergo treatment etc? My hubbie's father was like he was because of his father and so on and so on...

Anyway, hope this helps and keep trying whilst you still have the strength and determination to try and get her some proper treatment and also do not forget about your own and your daughters wellbeing in the meantime. The one positive thing is that you know your wife was not always like this and so you can see that it is the 'depression talking' and not the 'real her'. It really can turn people into unrecognizable human beings.

One final thing I have learnt fairly recently is that when someone is in this mindframe you can exhaust yourself and do 100 things right to try and keep things running smoothly and you can guarantee that that person partner will pick on the one thing that you have not thought of/is not an issue/ does not make sense to do it that way!! I think you are maybe in a slightly easier position (although I hate to use the word 'easy' but I am sure you will know what I mean) in that you are a man so you do not have the added thing that I felt for many years in that my husband could have quite a menacing demeanour when he was in a certain mode, he still to this day could not see it in himself but because of his male physicality this added another level of problem for me in standing up for myself for a long time. However, now that I do this more often, have got a little more confident as I have got a lot older in my convictions I have to say that although he may not like it in the moment (although from your incident with the knife you will know that you have to be careful how you do this and maybe wait until afterwards until all is calm to raise the issue that their behaviour really is unacceptable sometimes) it has meant longer term that my hubbie does have a lot more respect for me genuinely so my reaction to him was also part of the problem.

Keep smiling.

Honey Bee

:-)

NB: I was looking for a very similar post which I had put a couple of long replies to "Wife with depression, what to do feel lost, helpless?" which I thought sounded very similar to your situation but noticed you have found it and posted a reply to the person concerned so I may have repeated myself a lot above if you have read this other thread.

Post Edited (Honey Bee) : 12/28/2007 4:22:45 AM (GMT-7)


ShynSassy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 3036
   Posted 12/28/2007 5:03 AM (GMT -7)   
Leave
First of all welcome to the forum!

I have some info that I found on the net for you also,see below for that..

We with depression seem to push the ones away that we love. I think it is because we feel that we don't deserve that happiness.

I am concerned for the kids in this situation. They are seeing physical and mental abuse and that is not a healthy environment at all. I will tell you that I am sure the Social workers will be coming more often to watch this situation and quite frankly they need to.

I think she needs more help than just a marriage counselor at this point.

She has lived thru severe physical abuse,and sometimes that cycle continues... You have got to watch that with a very close eye.

If she has another episode to where she even acts like she may become violent,then you need to call 911 and you might have to have her admitted to the hospital.

This sounds like a very severe situation and it concerns me alot.

Please keep us updated,and keep those children safe.

www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5014_qa.html
www.mental-health-matters.com/articles/article.php?artid=526
www.rd.com/content/how-to-cope-with-a-depressed-spouse/
Shy


Mod- Depression

Chronic Depression, Panic Attacks,Anxiety Attacks,Anorexia
Meds I have taken throughout the years:Wellbutrin,Tranxene,Paxil,Prozac,Valium,
Lexapro,Zyban,Buspar,Clonazepam

Have been med free for 2 years now.

I will scream with you,Cry with you and hopefully laugh with you.


Honey Bee
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 114
   Posted 12/28/2007 6:10 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi again

Having read through your post again about the assault I have to say I agree with Shy. I don't want to suggest that you are not taking her assault seriously by any means but sometimes I think when you have lived in a certain situation for a while it becomes a little more normal than it should be. Again, i am thinking about my own experiences with my husbands family. They lived in a horrible tense, abusive, angry unloving situation which he genuinely thought was 'normal' family life until he met me and my family and stepped outside of his own. I think it was a big shock to him as he had become so used to living in a household like that it really had become normal to him.

I know from him that even a little element of abuse in a household did lasting damage to his own view of life. In fact he did start to emulate his dad's behaviour with me for a long time, he couldn't help it even though he really tried to fight against not being like him. So my point is surely it has got to be having an effect on your kids even if this is only the first real physical encounter your wife has had with you. I think that it takes a lot for a guy to call the police against a woman so I am assuming your wife scared you as well?

I have to say I am a little sceptical about 'counsellors' having seen friends and other family members go to them but not really get what they needed and in my own experience the only real way to go is via a proper diagnosis by a psychiatrist who is then authorised to give medication, not just a family doctor or therapist or a psychologist. Your wife's family issues on their own without the abuse in your own home surely warrant her going to see one? Shy is right, however hard it may be if she goes down this path again I would be calling 911 and getting her admitted. She will not thank you for it at the time but longer term at least you are trying something more radical and it might just be the real 'shock' that she needs to be admitted to a mental health ward that actually makes her acknowledge how ill she is and the deep effect her childhood is still having on her and her family. Once an outside party is involved you can bet that people get a bit of reality check on how they are behaving.

I buried my head in the sand for a little while with my hubbie this year (I really wanted us to be 'normal') but when he started telling me some of the details regarding the scarier thoughts/impulses he was having i.e wanting to jump on his motorbike and take off, taking a stack of pills and there was a knife impulse in their also I did call our local mental health center to make them aware of his condition. He does see his psych about once a month but since we moved house she is no longer local to us. It was ridiculous but I almost felt ashamed that we should be able to fix this problem on our own and felt a little embarassed. BUT once I got over this I had no hesitation in going with my hubbie to his appointments and telling them EXACTLY what the situation was (he is honest as well with his doc) but she knows that on the odd occasion I do go things have taken a BIG turn for the worse!

Sorry if this sounds a little harsh but I am sure you would hate to the cycle continue and see your kids end up like her in 20+ years.

Let us know your thoughts and how you are getting on.

Honey Bee :-)

leaveorstay
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 12/30/2007 7:24 AM (GMT -7)   
I'm back. Thanks so much to all of you. I appreciate the support.
 
Please believe, I am definitely taking the "knife incident" very seriously. However, here's where that conflict comes in. In the majority of literature that I've read about being a supportive spouse, one of the first pieces of advice they give is that you have to learn to seperate the Depression from who your spouse really is. 6 months ago, if something like this had happened, that would be it. Now I look and say "this depression is a beast, and we HAVE to step up our attack on it". Problem is WE is really just ME.
 
To be fair to my wife on here, she really is going through some serious life changing things right now. The events of her family's past are starting to show the after effects as her brother is literally going through a severe breakdown right now and she's trying to help him out- without realizing that the same things that caused him to be where he is right now, are also residing in her. Tons of built up hostility, resentment and guilt about the things they've gone through their whole lives that have never been brought to light- are appearing now. I do admire her stepping up and talking to me about it finally, and trying to help her brother- BUT I'm REALLY afraid that she is still seperating herself from that reality, as though she wasn't affected, so she doesn't have to internalize and deal with any of HER issues- just everyone else's.  I told her that while she's going through this with them, to just ignore me and my needs and I'll be here through it all, but my heart tells me this will just harden her more and make it impossible for me to get through again.
 
We are scheduled to start counseling this week and I'm trying to come up with an approach to our session. Part of me says that this is crunch time- I really have never seen the depressive symptoms and mood swings at this level with her. There is literally NOTHING positive in her mind right now. When I try to talk to her about our favorite memories or tell her how we're going to get through all of this together and be better for it- she does nothing but shake her head like I'm crazy for even believing that. She tells me that us seperating is inevitable because she'll never be able to do enough for me! I know she's just trying to push herself away from me because she feels like she's letting me down and not giving me all I deserve.
 
Anyway- do I go into the counseling sessions and basically lay it all out. Facts are my wife has suffered from depression for 15 years already, she's stopped treatment and meds and has had a violent outburst that led to her being arrested, is up and down with mood swings and mania and really just seems to have shut it down in terms of emotion toward almost everything- especially me. I'd prefer this although part of me feels like marriage counseling may not be the outlet for this AND I run the risk of her getting offended and it makes things worse.
 
The other part of me says that patience is the key. Just let the counselor do his thing in hopes that it helps lower the wall that she's placed between us and then go from there. I'll probably go this route, but most likely it will not get us any closer to dealing with the Depression.
 
On a positive note, its weird how even though we rarely touch anymore and she definitely rejects all of my outward emotion (I gave her a HUGE tight hug the morning after Christmas and told her how great she was on xmas day and her response was- "are the kids up", then I call her from work just to tell her that I love her like crazy and can;t stop thinking about her- and she says "that's because we're all crazy"). huh????  but she still remembers to kiss me before she leaves the house which is a pact we made 2 months ago. So it's like she's doing just enough to let me know that she does care about me- but doesn't want to make me feel like everything will be ok.

leaveorstay
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 12/30/2007 7:31 AM (GMT -7)   
If anyone reading this has beaten or at least acknowledged their Depression and is/has taken steps to get better. Can you let me know what may have inspired you to do so?

Honey Bee
Regular Member


Date Joined Jun 2007
Total Posts : 114
   Posted 12/30/2007 8:01 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi again leaveorstay

Just a quick response as I am heading off to bed (I am in Australia and it is now 12.40 a.m!)

I didn't mean to infer that you were not taking the knife incident seriously so hope I have not offended you and agree that the depression is causing her to act this way. However it is still HER actions that resulted in a serious incident like this and again I would be telling the counsellor everything. It can be a little embarrassing almost but they need to know. It sounds like you have already been very patient and things are getting worse not better. If you are not doing it for you think about your kids and the effect she is having on them.

So if it were me I think I would be totally honest at the counselling sessions, really what have you got to lose, could things really be any worse than they have been recently? This is just my opinion obviously but when on the occasions when I have gone to see the psych with my hubbie I have told her ALL his feelings and what he has said or done. I found this very hard and your wife may not like you for it at the time but look at it this way - how can they help her if they do not have a FULL picture of how things truly are? Just my view anyway.

It is especially difficult when you have to deal with it all on your own and I feel for you, kudos to you for hanging in there. That is me also and I am 10,000 miles away from any family or friends so I do appreciate how you are feeling currently. It sounds like your wife is going through some tough issues as you say and it is often I think when you get to a certain age, have kids etc. that family memories and issues come back to haunt you that had been buried during previous years.

As for your question re beating or acknowledging the depression it is a tough one. In our own experience I can say that unless it is just caused by a one off event (death, divorce for example) then unfortunately I cannot honestly see my hubbie ever 'beating' it for ever. It seems to come and go and even with supervision under his psych, meds (lots of different ones tried), therapy, changes in his life, getting away from his dysfunctional family it is always lurking around the corner for us. I down mean to sound negative but if you read this forum you will see that many others are the same. We just make the best of it when is feeling in a better mode. We have tried all of the non medical things as well like diet changes, exercise, moving to a sunny climate (as he suffered from SAD), he works for himself so can set his own schedule with work and clients but even despite all of this we have just had the worst year ever in terms of depression.

Regarding acknowledging the depression for us it was actually a series of coincidences that finally seemed to switch the light on in my hubbies head which is why he had remained undiagnosed for so many years. He had been to his GP more than once in the past with sleep, mood issues but for some reason they never suggested he was clinically depressed/bipolar.

Anyway, keep us posted about your counseling visit.

Honey Bee

leaveorstay
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 1/1/2008 8:07 PM (GMT -7)   
I really feel like I'm the one losing the grip on reality. What I have is a wife who no longer sees anything positive in our relationship and here I am trying to convince her that there is. Does that even sound like I have a reason to remain as committed as I've tried to be.

We had a New Years Eve party at our home last night. It was pretty unstressful, but we hardly spoke and definitely didn't touch which still breaks my heart. I couldn't believe she had actually put her head on my chest before we went to sleep but I chalk that up to the champagne. When I tried to get close this morning it was no dice. I asked if she had any attraction to me at all and she said "definitely", but for some reason we can kiss or touch.

We had a problem with our furnace this morning and I took care of it. Made the calls, paid the money, blah,blah,blah. I took a 20 minute nap with our 9 month old and wake up to hear about how I don't care about my family because while we had no heat, I slept. I sat down and listened to her go on about how unsupportive I am, about how I'm using her Depression to excuse myself for my errors. I asked her to name one thing that she's pointed out that I do wrong that I haven't tried to change- and she couldn't list one thing. Which of course just sets her off even more.

We had a long convo in which I told her that one of the symptoms of depression is that you often see hopelessness in situations where there is evidence that victory is certain-like ours. I told her that regardless of our past issues, what she has is a husband who will do ANYTHING to be the perfect man for her- because I am STONE COLD HEAD OVER HEELS in love with her. She just shook her head and said that she doesn't believe things like that anymore and I should stop saying it. Now I can't tell my wife that I'm in love with her??

PLease just deal with my writings until this appt Thursday.

ShynSassy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 3036
   Posted 1/2/2008 4:42 AM (GMT -7)   
Hi Leave

I will say that you have done your research about depression,and that is more than alot of people do when it comes to their spouses...some people just can't handle it and therefore try to ignore it..which makes it alot worse for everyone.

Whatever you do,do not stop saying that you love her. Even if you sound like a broken record to yourself.
She does not feel that she deserves it...but hopefully once she starts to feel better she will remember that you were by her side.

Stay strong and keep us posted,we will be here for you.
Shy


Mod- Depression

Chronic Depression, Panic Attacks,Anxiety Attacks,Anorexia
Meds I have taken throughout the years:Wellbutrin,Tranxene,Paxil,Prozac,Valium,
Lexapro,Zyban,Buspar,Clonazepam

Have been med free for 2 years now.

I will scream with you,Cry with you and hopefully laugh with you.


Wifeofdepression
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 144
   Posted 1/2/2008 2:11 PM (GMT -7)   

Dear Leave,

Constantly I question is this my husbands depression or is it him being a jerk. In the months I have been asking myself this question I have not found an answer. I try to emphasize to husband that this is not him it is the depression. He is treating, but not getting alot better. I picture us at the bottom of the well. We climb up a little, slip down abit, then crawl back toward the light. We are not at the bottom, but we are far from the light. I wonder if I will ever see the light.

There is a website that someone mentioned on this site. I find it helpful just reading the stories. It is primarily spouses of depressed people--depressionfallout.com. The answers vary from couple to couple. Some find a way to move forward others do not.

Wife of Depression


getting by
Forum Moderator


Date Joined Sep 2007
Total Posts : 40598
   Posted 1/2/2008 3:03 PM (GMT -7)   
To Leave and Wife,

Please don't ever give up. You are both strong and very compassionate people. I know that it seems so difficult right now and it takes time for your loved ones to get better, but they will. Just try to take your lives one day at a time and I am sure that soon you will start to see results from all of the hard work that is being done. It just goes slow.

You are both in my thoughts and prayers.

hugs

Karen
fibromyalgia, chronic fatigue, clinically depressed and allergies


leaveorstay
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 1/3/2008 9:54 AM (GMT -7)   
Thanks again to everyone. Your words and encouragement are really helping.

I hear you Shy about not stopping telling her that I love her. The downside is its tough for me to continuously put myself and my emotions out there when I know nothing is coming back. Then it's almost counter productive for me because once I say it- and she gives me an empty "I love you" back or doesn't say anything- then I find myself jumping online to read articles that remind me that she loves me but it still doesn't stop the hurt of feeling like your spouse no longer loves you.

I noticed something the other day as she was talking me. I almost feel like when she goes on and on about the things that I do wrong, what I don't give her, and why she's convinced that we'll never succeed as a couple- part of me really feels like she's talking about herself. She'll tell me that I'm unsupportive, and then acknowledge that I have literally done everything she's asked me to do. However, up until around 2 months ago, my biggest issue with her was how unsupportive she is of me. She calls me selfish, then admits that I give my all to my family. When our wedding was called off 2 days prior to the date, it was because I told her that she HAD to change her selfish ways or the wedding would not happen and she said flat out that she would not change it and HAD to be selfish because no one else looks out for her. Then the day I had filed for the divorce this past August it was the same conversation that proceeded that action. I told her that now that we ARE married, she HAD to let go of that selfish nature and she said "no". Now I'm the selfish one even though she can't name one thing that I do for myself.

The few times that we've had calm conversations about our relationship and I explain to her that I feel really badly about not being anough for her- she ASSURES me that it's not me!! But once she gets worked up about anything- I'm the anti-Christ. I asked her if she thinks that her Depression has any effect on our relationship and the way she treats and sees me? She said "probably" and ended the convo.

Well we start counseling today and I have my fingers crossed big time. I'm not going to be able to stress enough that my whole reason for being there is to save my relationship with my wife. I'm going to avoid bringing up the Depression by name, I'm just going to speak of her behaivor patterns and let him diagnose those on his own so that I don't run her out of the sessio. I do plan on mentioning that in my mind, her perspective on us has worsened since she cold turkey'd her Cymbalta last month. I so badly want this to be productive. I miss my wife.

leaveorstay
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 1/3/2008 11:06 AM (GMT -7)   
wifeofdepression- thanks for the depressionfallout website. I really cannot believe how similar all of our stories are.

ShynSassy
Veteran Member


Date Joined Dec 2005
Total Posts : 3036
   Posted 1/3/2008 3:42 PM (GMT -7)   
Leave

You have done all you can do at this point .Going to counseling and hopefully being able to say what is on your mind.

Remember to keep an open mind in counseling though.. At first it might not be what you expected because the doctor will point out each person's faults after awhile.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Shy


Mod- Depression

Chronic Depression, Panic Attacks,Anxiety Attacks,Anorexia
Meds I have taken throughout the years:Wellbutrin,Tranxene,Paxil,Prozac,Valium,
Lexapro,Zyban,Buspar,Clonazepam

Have been med free for 2 years now.

I will scream with you,Cry with you and hopefully laugh with you.


Wifeofdepression
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 144
   Posted 1/3/2008 7:58 PM (GMT -7)   
Leave,
In the week since husband started new meds all the negative comments made to me and the kids has STOPPED! It is wonderful. I have to say that finding the right medication and combination has been difficult, but I think that we finally found the right combination of medication. We still have a long way to go. Today was a good day for him and our family.
The biggest thing that I have learned is to take one day at a time--as someone who likes to plan that was very hard--but it makes it easier.
Wife
 

leaveorstay
Regular Member


Date Joined Dec 2007
Total Posts : 20
   Posted 1/4/2008 7:42 AM (GMT -7)   
Shy- you were absolutely right- counseling was not what I expected at all, and while I was a bit frustrated when we left, I guess I find encouragement just in the fact that she showed up. She was late of course, but she showed. Maybe I'm just paranoid but I feel like since she's been in and out of some kind of counseling for 15 years now, she knows how to play that game with the counselors that I know nothing about. He basically asked us about the knife incident and my wife went on with her 1/2 truths. She tells him that once she got home we started arguing which is not true at all. I spent the 1st 15 minutes talking to her, apologizing for everything I had done wrong to her and she got pissed because I wouldn't just let her go to bed. The one time I yelled at her was because she made a very sarcastic remark about my grandmother passing away 2 days prior and all I yelled was "are you kidding me". So he asked her about grabbing the knife and she said she thought she had to for her own safety. He asked if I've ever put my hands on her in a physical way, and of course- being her she doesn't say "no", it's "not REALLY". He saw through it though- at least in my opinion and said ok" has he ever punched, threatened, hit, acted like he was going to be violent, with you" and she said "no" but she was afraid of me. I kind of rolled my eyes and the counselor told me that because of my size (I'm 5'11, 210), and intense eyes, he could see why she'd be scared. She tells him that she grabbed the knife to bring in our bedroom and I wouldn't allow her to walk by, next thing she knew she was on the floor and she was tryign to keep the knife because she was afraid that I would do something to her with it! People please know that as soon as I grabbed the knife out of her hand I was screaming to my cousin who was there- call the police- call the police!! Would I be screaming that if I was about to harm my wife with a knife?? Doubt it. So the counselor asks her why she was arrested for 2nd degree assault and she couldn't answer. I told him that it was HER who made the 911 call and her exact words to the dispatch were "I just assaulted my husband with a knife- we need help". That's why she was immediately arrested- although now her story is that she was protecting herself from me.

Before we evenstarted he asked her if she though our marriage was too far gone to be saved and she said she didn't know. When he asked me the same question I said absolutely not! In 18 months of marriage we had a baby, bought our 1st home, most of family has stopped talking to her- we've dealth with ALOT, and to me we're still just trying to figure out how to get our feet on the ground with each other. He seemed to understand that but she says how sick she is of fighting, and my not doing the same things that I expect of her. She brought up how controlling I am and my response was simply, I don't think it's controlling to expect my wife to call and check in every now and then when she goes out. I do it- just as a sign of respect and consideration- we have 3 kids and it's not easy with them at night. She called me a liar because when I went out to watch football this past Tuesday night- I didn't call and check in. Here's the funny thing- SHE WASN'T EVEN HOME! She was out with the kids visiting her brother 1/2 way across the state. That's how irrational the things that she says are!

I left there pretty discouraged. I've asked her a few times over the past couple of weeks if she thought we should get divorced and it's always NO- then yesterday she says she doesn't know if we should stay together. Of course after the session, she comes home and it's like everything is A-OK. Then she wakes up this morning and won't speak to me other than to ask me for some lunch money for the kids and where the clean towels are. I say good morning and get no response or goodbye when she leaves.

I feel the anger stage coming on so I'm doing my best to fight that off. I'm just seriously sick and tired of the personal attacks. I'm doing everything in my power to be supportive. I have literally done ALL of the grocery shopping and house cleaning over the past 2 months, getting the kids ready for school and the baby together every morning BY MYSELF. I'm finishing our basement BY MYSELF, I wrapped every single Christmas present for our 3 kids in the basement until 2:30am BY MYSELF while she slept on the couch. I know it sounds like a "whoa is me" story, but I do feel like a thank you from her would be great- instead I get made to feel like a failure by her while she stands there and does NOTHING. I'm definitely beginning to seperate myself from her at least emotionally. I'm VERY disappointed that this is the mother of my daughter. Before my daughter got her I told my wife that I was very concerned with the mental illness record of her family and how she would be "at risk". My wife assured me that she would take every step toward insuring that she would take every step to make sure that my baby wouldn't see any of what she had to see growing up. Now it's not HER- it's US that is effecting the children. I pointed out to her that she had 2 children with 2 different men before me- and both of those relationships ended within a year of the child being born. This is now the 3rd and it look like the same thing is going to happen. You don't think that will effect the kids at all? If that's not a reason to look in the mirror- I don't know what is.

I'm thinking that it probably is best for this marriage to end. My wife has acknowledged her issues with Depression her whole life, yet now feels like she can beat it on her own without and meds or therapy, but by reading inspirational books. She is afraid to truly just confront this thing and treat it like the illness it is. She just told me that she has thoughts of being violent with the kids and has to consciously remind herself not to do what was done to her, she told me that she cannot keep her thoughts together and is all over the place right now, she keeps asking me why I don't get so flustered and hates my answer that I LOVE this life of ours. That I've always dreamed of a house, a beautiful wife and children and now have it all. She of course thinks that I convince myself of that so I'm not miserable like her. Well- if your that miserable, I cannot allow you to raise my daughter. She deserves better than to wind up feeling like she's a burden to a mother.

I'm keeping my distance for the next week until counseling. I do feel like her next personal attack and criticism of me is going to lead to me firing some back and I don't want that. However, if I get to speak in the next counseling session, I'm putting exactly what I feel our issues are on the table and asking him to have her answer for them. She flat out tells me that I deserve better than her- so WHY is she constantly blaming me. I KNOW the answer which is why I deal with it- but it's time that she knows the answer too!


Wifeofdepression- that is GREAT TO HEAR! What is he taking and was it voluntary?? I know my wife has been on Wellbutrin (that was when we got together and she was GREAT), then Cymbalta. She's started and stopped it cold turkey twice since August and I notice a change. She doesn't gfeel like she needs the meds anymore which is crazy. She stops the meds and is 3 feet away from being divorced, and can't figure out why she can't get a grip on her life".

Does your husband accept the diagnosis of depression and has he done any research into it??

Wifeofdepression
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 144
   Posted 1/4/2008 8:57 PM (GMT -7)   

Leave,

Now my husband does acknowledge he is depressed. It took a long time getting there. To make a long story short my husband basically spent from Labor Day 2006 until mid August 2007 in bed in a dark room. I convinced him in January 2007 he might be depressed, so he went to a psychiatrist who gave him so small a dose of lexapro it did nothing. It took months for me to realize that hubby was not telling psychiatrist that meds were not working. Switched doctors. I went with him to first appt and told dr, he will tell you all is well, please probe. The next appt hubby said he was ok--psychiatrist told him to bring me back as husband was being evasive. The stress of trying to hide my husbands illness and parent two teenagers (who are absolutely incredible) was too much. Finally in August after another day of broken promises that he would get up and did not I had it, told the kids to pack a bag we were going to my moms. They packed up and in 20 minutes we left. Considering that we had been married 22 years and I had never ever walked out it scared him and he went to the doctors with me--they admitted him into a day program at a psychiatric facility that was an hour away from our home-he wanted to stay anonymous. It was a waste of time. The kids and I moved home after a few weeks as I was tired of going between the two houses trying to keep all the balls up in the air. After he returned to work our life became horrific again. Come to find out husbands manager put him on probation the day he was released to go back to work partial duty--this set husband in to a tail spin. Of course husband did not tell me or his therapist that there was a problem at work  until 6 weeks after he was put on probation and no one could understand why he was regressing. Husband and I  started to work on the job issues, things were going OK. I left for an appt the monday after thanksgiving and came back to a husband who was in the beginnings of his first manic phase. Having no experience with this (husband is not bipolar, so this was new to me)I did not realize how our lives would spiral out of control over the next 4 days. Husband does not remember much about those days--I do. After he presented my with outrageous delusions I called our internist who wanted me to take him to the ER as soon as possible. Husband was adamant that he was ok and just was a bit tired even though he called his therapist 4 times between 2 and 4 am stating he was hopeless and despondent. At the direction of his therapist and psychiatrist I  had to call the police twice and a mobile crisis unit. Even though his therapist told the police that husband was a danger to himself they would not take him for treatment--when the police or mobile crisis unit came he would get so scared that he would shape up when they arrived and appear very together. One of the officers asked if Hubby and I were having marital issues and there was nothing wrong with him, that it was me.  Because husband was so upset the kids and I moved out--and we are not moving back any time soon, lesson learned from first outpatient stay. Luckily we have a number of close friends who are doctors. I called them and told them what I had been living for the last 18 months.After they got over the shock one friend called him, as the friend lives 8 hours away, and one friend came to our house.Then I called my husbands closest Christian friend who drove 4 hours to our home. Between the two doctor friends and our persuasive Christian friend--they were able to convince him that the psychiatric hospital was where he needed to go. The entire time they were intervening I was at my moms with the kids, the friends would call with periodic updates. They were able to get him admitted as an inpatient. Unfortunately our insurance refused to pay for the inpatient stay (he did not present as homicidal or suicidal)so he was released to a day program after 4 days. Without our friends I do not think husband would ever have gone for treatment. Husband called me every name in the book. It was absolutely horrible. The awful things he said about me to our friends, police and providers was extremely hurtful. He has apologized and I made him call all our friends to retract the statements he made about me to them.

While he was inpatient I found this website. Someone recommended the fallout book and website. From there I found another book--it was a godsend. It is called What to do when someone you love is depressed by Mitch Golant. It talks about being a strenghtening ally. It was from this book that I got the idea--which I should have done ages ago--to research the medication that was prescribed for my husband. He usually is diligent in researching his meds and doctors and he had seen three psychiatrists who all had him on this med so I fiqured they knew what they were doing. The med caused him to suffer from all kinds of side effects including manic episodes and ulcers, plus it was primarily an OCD drug which has benefits for depression. While husband is ocd, it is no big deal, the depression is a huge deal. I printed out all the info got out a highlighter and highlighted all the side effects. Then researched over 40 SSRI's to find out which one appeared to best address the issues husband was having. Read the studies for some new treatments. Printed this all out and told husband to take to psychiatrist at hospital. The doctor asked me to come to a session. He agreed with my research, discussed another study that I had not read, and agreed the med hubby was on was wrong and changed the medications. The new medications began on Christmas day. They are working! Anyway there is a chapter in the Golant book on how to address loved ones that do not recognize they are depressed. Also check the NAMI website there is an article about couples who have made it thru this roller coaster ride.

Please remember that as you go thru your day that you absolutely must do something for yourself. That can be finishing a project at work so you feel less overwhelmed, taking your baby girl out in the stroller for a quick walk around the block or to the library, or calling a friend to vent on the way home from work. Just something that lets you leave the problem for a bit. I concentrated on my kids. My 17 year old and 15 year old are so great--they are incredible in ever way. I tell them that they have to truly understand this disease so it does not eat away their lives. My 15 year old gets it. Daughter is struggling as she is upset that her daddy is gone and she does not trust him.

Hopefully she will remember how good life was when she had the Wellbutrin to help her thru her days and want that kind of life back.

Wife 


Wifeofdepression
Regular Member


Date Joined Jul 2007
Total Posts : 144
   Posted 1/4/2008 9:05 PM (GMT -7)   
Leave,
Hubby is taking Wellbutrin in combination with Zoloft. They may add Ritalin or Provegil to help him stay awake and alert, but they want him to get to full levels of both the Wellbutrin and the Zoloft. I am just thankful that the luvox, which is a great drug for some people-just not him-is out of our lives. 
Wife
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